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MutantClannfear
Blank Czech

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 3624
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:44 am 
 

OpsiusCato wrote:
MutantClannfear wrote:
Murmuüre

I disagree. The ambient passages are to be expected. They're a resource to make the album flow. All of the instruments used in it go from the forefront to the background to the front again, and the riffs/drumming/vocals are rooted in Metal. It's an Ambient/Black Metal album, so both sides of the coin will be at the spotlight at times.

At least three of the songs are over 50% ambient without any guitars (drums, sure, but drumming doesn't make a metal album). It uses elements of metal but I don't think it comes together to make a metal album.
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OpsiusCato
Mexican Metal Inquisition

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am
Posts: 3006
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:07 am 
 

Dude, your response can be answered exactly with my original assessment. The Ambient passages are used as a resource to give it flow and the "part" of the album that is the forefront at some point goes to the background and then to the front again and so on. Focus on the album as a whole, and try not to see it as a collection of unrelated songs that can be skipped and picked from. As a whole album is rooted in Metal. All the non-metal in it is a resource and it doesn't matter if it's the ambience, the sound of flies buzzing, the intro to a movement of Carmina Burana, a motif from the score to The Wickerman or a sample from a French Catherdal's clock ringing in it, it's a resource and not the main focus of the album. Maybe the fact the vocals are not at the forefront and the album is half an hour long gives you the wrong impression?
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PhiloFrog, making accurate statements as usual, wrote:
Opsius is Metal as fuck.

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MutantClannfear
Blank Czech

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 3624
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:49 pm 
 

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree in that I think the metal is more of a resource used to the end of an overall atmosphere that isn't entirely metal. Structurally, it kind of reminds me of Burzum's "Decreptitude II", a not-entirely-metal song which uses ambient as the backdrop for a metal base, but with the proportions reversed.
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OpsiusCato
Mexican Metal Inquisition

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am
Posts: 3006
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:19 pm 
 

What you're describing about the backdrop/base proportions and Decrepitude II is closer to Basarabian Hills than it is to Murmuüre.
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Uncolored, on being a law-abiding citizen wrote:
I'm going to an illegal AnarchoPunkfest in an abandoned disco near a beach. If I'm not here tomorrow look for me in jail.
PhiloFrog, making accurate statements as usual, wrote:
Opsius is Metal as fuck.

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Emptiness Cycle
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:07 am
Posts: 417
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:43 am 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Abrasax/5016

The only release was distributed only to close friends and never made publically available. Having spent many hours looking into this, the official website backs this up. There is no way to hear or purchase the material that I can find in any way. I believe this band shouldn't be here as no music was ever released into the public domain.

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Zodijackyl
63 Axe Handles High

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 7601
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:06 pm 
 

Deleted Snörkel from "Norway" and Eat Lead from "Japan" - fake bands, no valid release.

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Diamhea
Eats and Spits Corpses

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:46 pm
Posts: 9275
Location: At the Heat of Winter
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:06 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
Deleted Snörkel from "Norway" and Eat Lead from "Japan" - fake bands, no valid release.


Ha. Knew it.
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droneriot
cisgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 10812
Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:47 am 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Terror_Organ/11148

Power electronics/industrial, not death metal or any form of metal in any way. Most likely a relic from the days of the less strictly enforced side-project rule.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmm1eBQZenc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO1WrGKC9x8
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PDS
The Folk One

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:04 pm
Posts: 1783
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:38 am 
 

droneriot wrote:
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Terror_Organ/11148

Power electronics/industrial, not death metal or any form of metal in any way. Most likely a relic from the days of the less strictly enforced side-project rule.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmm1eBQZenc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO1WrGKC9x8


Nuked.

Diadema Tristis also deleted. More folk than metal.
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OpsiusCato
Mexican Metal Inquisition

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am
Posts: 3006
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:38 pm 
 

Deleted Fearless Woman from Brazil. Predominantly Rock.
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Uncolored, on being a law-abiding citizen wrote:
I'm going to an illegal AnarchoPunkfest in an abandoned disco near a beach. If I'm not here tomorrow look for me in jail.
PhiloFrog, making accurate statements as usual, wrote:
Opsius is Metal as fuck.

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Antioch
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 4:08 am
Posts: 1758
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:07 am 
 

Bumping unanswered posts.

Antioch wrote:
Withering Moon
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Wit ... 3540418377

A two-track demo. Zero metal on the available track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2u0P3BocGQ
And I'm pretty sure GearWing doesn't have the other track.

Either way, too iffy a release to warrant inclusion.


Antioch wrote:
GREEN SLEEVES (Swe)
Just handled a couple of reports on the band's page.

The two songs on the split are 80s' rock:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdFJlADcYQ4
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A44c5MoO5aI

Their debut needs reassessment, too. Personally, I'd say it's more hard rock than metal. The guitars are thick and heavy, but the riffs are mostly rock - quite run-of-the-mill even by 2006 standards. If it's to stay, I think Rock (early), Hard Rock/Heavy Metal (later) is more fitting as a genre.

PS. The reports weren't genre-related. It's not like I'm closing half-done stuff. ;)
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The Crazy Old School Music Fan
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 12:13 pm
Posts: 131
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:52 pm 
 

I want to ask about why Liturgy was accepted to the Archives. I recently listened to them and they do not sound like metal at all, much less black metal:

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PDS
The Folk One

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:04 pm
Posts: 1783
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:57 pm 
 

The Ark Work is the outlier in Litrugy's shitty, shitty sound (still shit though, so that's not an outlier). Try listening to one of the first two albums.
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Acrobat wrote:
I dunno, I'm a guitarist and it always feels like playing a giant cock. Not just that but live music should hit you in the genitals. It might not if you don't use good amplifiers and your modelling shit goes straight out of the PA. But good music hits you HARD in the GENITALS.

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PDS
The Folk One

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:04 pm
Posts: 1783
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:59 pm 
 

Antioch wrote:
Withering Moon
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Wit ... 3540418377

A two-track demo. Zero metal on the available track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2u0P3BocGQ
And I'm pretty sure GearWing doesn't have the other track.

Either way, too iffy a release to warrant inclusion.

Nuked
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Acrobat wrote:
I dunno, I'm a guitarist and it always feels like playing a giant cock. Not just that but live music should hit you in the genitals. It might not if you don't use good amplifiers and your modelling shit goes straight out of the PA. But good music hits you HARD in the GENITALS.

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Emptiness Cycle
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:07 am
Posts: 417
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:21 am 
 

Emptiness Cycle wrote:
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Abrasax/5016

The only release was distributed only to close friends and never made publically available. Having spent many hours looking into this, the official website backs this up. There is no way to hear or purchase the material that I can find in any way. I believe this band shouldn't be here as no music was ever released into the public domain.



Le bumpage.

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 11196
Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:56 am 
 

Antioch wrote:
GREEN SLEEVES (Swe)
Just handled a couple of reports on the band's page.

The two songs on the split are 80s' rock:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdFJlADcYQ4
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A44c5MoO5aI

Their debut needs reassessment, too. Personally, I'd say it's more hard rock than metal. The guitars are thick and heavy, but the riffs are mostly rock - quite run-of-the-mill even by 2006 standards. If it's to stay, I think Rock (early), Hard Rock/Heavy Metal (later) is more fitting as a genre.

I disagree on the full-length, sounds like it's primarily heavy metal.

Emptiness Cycle wrote:
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Abrasax/5016

The only release was distributed only to close friends and never made publically available. Having spent many hours looking into this, the official website backs this up. There is no way to hear or purchase the material that I can find in any way. I believe this band shouldn't be here as no music was ever released into the public domain.

Deleted.
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Antioch
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 4:08 am
Posts: 1758
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:24 pm 
 

Azmodes wrote:
Antioch wrote:
Green Sleeves (Swe)
If it's to stay, I think Rock (early), Hard Rock/Heavy Metal (later) is more fitting as a genre.

I disagree on the full-length, sounds like it's primarily heavy metal.

I'm glad you've given it a listen. Cheers. Would you not consider my suggestion concerning the genre, esp. the "early" part?
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Zodijackyl
63 Axe Handles High

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 7601
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:40 am 
 

Deleted Woods of Fallen. Not a metal band, no valid release. No original metal music, at least.

Released one original track - "White Glory" on The Night and the Fog II compilation - which was ambient, not metal. Also released a Burzum cover on Visions: A Tribute to Burzum. Despite the band's mainman running a label and being involved in a notable scene, no other material ever surfaced.

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 11196
Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:19 am 
 

Antioch wrote:
I'm glad you've given it a listen. Cheers. Would you not consider my suggestion concerning the genre, esp. the "early" part?

Considering the split tracks are heavy metal as well, it seems fine to me as it is. If anything, I think I'll remove the "melodic" tag.
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Antioch
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 4:08 am
Posts: 1758
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:30 am 
 

Haha, fair enough.
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Emptiness Cycle
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:07 am
Posts: 417
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:33 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
Deleted Woods of Fallen. Not a metal band, no valid release. No original metal music, at least.

Released one original track - "White Glory" on The Night and the Fog II compilation - which was ambient, not metal. Also released a Burzum cover on Visions: A Tribute to Burzum. Despite the band's mainman running a label and being involved in a notable scene, no other material ever surfaced.



Thank you.

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 11196
Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:05 am 
 

Deleted Eternal Fear from Poland. Ambient.
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Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 5998
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:54 pm 
 

Tossed Cryptorsatan. Mostly ambient. No predominantly metal albums.

It is worth noting that it is extremely rare that a band that is non-metal and has consistently been non-metal would - out of the blue - release an undoubtedly metal release. This is no exception.
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Antioch
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 4:08 am
Posts: 1758
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:23 am 
 

Both
- http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Mat ... ctem/36075 and
- http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Matutina/35930
are darkwave/folk bands. At least, that's what I gathered from the four songs I could find:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMEPsbE ... b1y0qfHoMs
Lacrimosa is brutal death metal compared to this. There's not one metal riff on here.

It'd be great if Morrigan took a listen, too, as I think she might still want to include them. No idea.
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TrooperEd
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:18 pm
Posts: 2115
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:44 pm 
 

For those that want Korn to be on the archives, Johnathan Davis doesn't want to be called metal either:

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/jonathan-davis-has-always-had-a-problem-with-korn-being-classified-as-a-metal-band/
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OpsiusCato
Mexican Metal Inquisition

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am
Posts: 3006
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:52 pm 
 

TrooperEd wrote:
For those that want Korn to be on the archives, Johnathan Davis doesn't want to be called metal either:

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/jonathan-davis-has-always-had-a-problem-with-korn-being-classified-as-a-metal-band/

Please refrain from posting useless stuff like that. No one is asking about the inclusion of Korn.
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Uncolored, on being a law-abiding citizen wrote:
I'm going to an illegal AnarchoPunkfest in an abandoned disco near a beach. If I'm not here tomorrow look for me in jail.
PhiloFrog, making accurate statements as usual, wrote:
Opsius is Metal as fuck.

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 11196
Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:46 am 
 

Deleted St. Heathen. Only label-only promos distributed.
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Zodijackyl
63 Axe Handles High

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 7601
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:11 pm 
 

Deleted "White Throne" from Brazil. This is a one-man "Christian black metal" "band" who evidently didn't believe "thou shalt not steal" applied to him. "His" music is recordings plagiarized from the Satanic black metal band Warloghe.

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 11196
Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:29 pm 
 

Deleted Dreamforest from Sweden. No proof of valid release, looks like a Myspace band that somehow got through back in 2007.
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metaljeff
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:56 am
Posts: 7
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:03 am 
 

Can someone PLEASE explain to me, in clear words, why Rush is accepted as Metal? I have read the rules on this many times over, so please do not talk to me like I haven't. I could name a few bands that actively seek to be considered Metal, are considered Metal by fans, and are VERY well known, yet MA refuses to allow them. But for some stupid reason that I cannot understand, Rush is here. I could understand if Rush has considered themselves Metal at one time, but I have never heard them do so. Now I know that just because a band calls themselves Metal, it does not mean they are. This brings me to my point; show me the Metal. The bands I would mention definitely fit the criteria, but I'm not going there because I know they will never get accepted.

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 11196
Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:24 am 
 

Well, they aren't precisely accepted as a clearcut metal band, but as a selected exception for historical reasons. They shouldn't be taken as the basis for any further inclusions (not that any band really should, as we judge each on their own merit, but in this case it's particularly noteworthy).

Rush are in fact mentioned by name in this relevant section from the rules:
Quote:
Mötley Crüe, Deep Purple, Rainbow, Scorpions and Rush (among a few examples) are not considered metal by some. Understandable, as their music and heaviness varied and was debatable at times. But what they sometimes lacked in "metalness", they made for in historical importance, and they are there to stay. That doesn't mean we're going to accept any glam or hippie rock bands though, and they are about as "borderline" as we are going to have.
They are exceptions. You might not agree. Tough shit.


A number of mods, myself included, don't consider Rush to be metal, a few songs and bits and pieces aside, but that's the owners' decision and it has been made. Would I include them if it were solely up to me? Probably not, but I can respect the reasons behind their inclusion.
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metaljeff
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:56 am
Posts: 7
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:50 am 
 

Thank you Azmodes. That makes sense. I know they are in the rules. Hearing you agree that they are not Metal helps my brain wrap around it. Now your explanation brings me to another question. If bands like Rush are noteworthy and historical, then why is Led Zeppelin not included. I myself and articles/interviews I've read agree that they are considered post-metal. If Rush is there then why not Zeppelin?

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Metantoine
Slave to Santa

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
Posts: 12030
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:57 am 
 

metaljeff wrote:
I myself and articles/interviews I've read agree that they are considered post-metal.

It's true that Led Zep were a big influence on Neurosis!

Rush are much much more metallic than Led Zep ever where. If you check Hemispheres or some of their modern output like Vapor Trails or Roll the Bones, it's obvious. Anyway, they're an exception and an admin decision just like Led Zep being left out (for me, they're the quintessial rock band, their "metal" songs wouldn't even make a proper EP since they're so rare.)
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metaljeff
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:56 am
Posts: 7
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:34 am 
 

Metantoine, I see what you are saying, but to me Rush is just another version of Kansas. You could make the same statement as you did about Rush being "metallic" as you could Kansas. I still think if you are going to add a band for noteworthy/historical reasons, then Zeppelin might as well be in there too. My strongest point is this; it would be a fail to argue that Rush has had more of an influence on Metal than Zeppelin. I'm sure a little research will verify that.

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metaljeff
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:56 am
Posts: 7
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:39 am 
 

A suggestion:
If we are going to have bands that are non-metal and have a significant historical value, then maybe we should give such pages that identity to distinguish them as such. It annoys me to land on a page like Rush on the MA and see them fronted as a metal band without any indication otherwise. Maybe these pages could get a small note about it. I can imagine young kids landing on the page and spreading the misconception that they are a Metal band just because they saw the page on MA.

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tahu157
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:22 pm
Posts: 1008
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:44 am 
 

Can we take a look at Grind.bot? Most of the 'riffing' to me sounds like blasts of fuzz and not much else. There's some 'lead guitar' I guess but even that just sounds like an old atari game.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Gri ... 3540387751
https://grindbot.bandcamp.com/album/object-oriented

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Zodijackyl
63 Axe Handles High

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 7601
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:25 pm 
 

While the sound is absolutely terrible, Grindbot is more or less a computerized version of Mortician. It's a weird and experimental band, for sure, but I think it does belong here.

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 11196
Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:20 am 
 

Deleted Gloriam Est from Portugal. The only album appears to be plagiarised 1:1 from the Russian band Primeval Chaos.

Image
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uglur
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:42 pm
Posts: 202
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:12 pm 
 

Deleted Heroin Makes Happy. Ambient.

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Emptiness Cycle
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:07 am
Posts: 417
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:59 am 
 

uglur wrote:
Deleted Heroin Makes Happy. Ambient.



I'm going to respectfully contest this. I submitted a metal release which was accepted quite happily as metal. Yes there is an ambient track on YouTube but it's a stand alone track from another release which no one has, and I very much doubt you do. If you do, gimme :)

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