It is worth noting that vocals have no bearing on acceptance, it is all about the riffs.

I think you may have listened to some early interludes they released, and not songs from the EP, such as Debris (after the intro) or Halfbreed, which contain numerous riffs that can only be described as metal riffs.
The songs' links follow:
http://obsidiantide.bandcamp.com/track/halfbreed
http://obsidiantide.bandcamp.com/track/debris

Would you mind listening to those songs and recosider your decision?

Assuming this song is representative, I agree with the blacklisting. It's nu-metal and the site does not consider this to be acceptable/a genre of metal. Sounds like there's some -core chugs mixed in as well.

Hi, i tried to submit the band Lindemann yesterday, and got this "This band was previously rejected for the following reason:
Wait until the album is actually released. For a band to qualify, it must have at least one (valid) release already out and available to the public at the time of submission"

But today the single is actully released (May 29th 2015), so i tried to submit it again and this shows up..."Sorry, this band has been blacklisted by the moderation and can no longer be submitted"

What should i do?

A digital single is not considered a valid album for accepting a band on. In this case, please wait until the "Skills in Pills" full-length album is out (June 23) before resubmitting. Even then there's no guarantee that the project would be musically acceptable; we will need samples from the whole album to determine that.

This is addressed to everyone, but, regarding the earlier discussion about "nu-metal" and "alternative metal," it's worth keeping in mind that even though it may have "metal" in the name that does not mean it's "metal" by our working definition. There's lots of styles popularized over the years that have "metal" as part of the genre label, but do not have metal riffs. It does suck seeing "metal" get appropriated into genres that are better suited as "rock", "punk", or "hardcore." Sadly that's just how it is, though.

Hi,

I tried to add a band called Absconditus but my request was rejected as the band did not have a valid release yet since their first album is out on june 8th 2015. So how come someone could finally add that band before the release date of said album? (see here: http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Abs ... 3540396969)

It's a bit frustrating since this page has incomplete as well as invalid information while mine was fully documented.

Regards,

E.

It is out, on digital. If you check the I, voidhanger bandcamp you can see that aside from the physical release, you can buy it digitally. I, voidhanger, since finding out about bandcamp now has digital albums out before the release date of the physical album. They don't tell anyout about it, though.

Yeah, the digital version is already available. Looking at your rejected draft, apparently the album was merely stream-only at the time of your submission.


Feel free to update the information or report it.

Can I please get a re-vote on Limbus Infantium? I cannot see why this was blacklisted.

Cheers
http://panzerforstrecords.bandcamp.com/ ... -of-ghosts

Hi! I remembered today that Insanus Infernus was banned by the following reason



Why? I saw other bands added only for a promo CD-R like Inexorable End or Black Coma. Thanks

David

"Predominantly ambient/industrial." The 2015 album hadn't yet been released back when the band was first blacklisted, but listening to it it's definitely more noisy ambient than metal.


It's not so much the use of the term "promo", but the fact that something has either been made available to the wider public or it hasn't (and was exclusively used to attract label deals or get reviews, for example). A promo can mean either, and can often be synonymous with a demo. Can you provide proof that Insanus Infernus' release falls into the public release category? In fact, the rejection message already clearly addresses this. Distribution is a key factor in defining a valid release.

About Inexorable End or Black Coma, it seems to me they have other releases out anyway. Also keep in mind what I wrote above about the different meanings of "promo".

No problem, thanks for the time. If they end up moving towards Metal more, I'll re-open it.

Band has a new album out https://deuil.bandcamp.com/. If that's not heavy enough for this site, my mind is full of f$%&.

Ok, it's clear. This is only promo stuff for zines and webzines. Thanks for the info

Maestro Canibal

You send me this reason to reject Maestro Canibal: "Can you provide evidence that "Involucion" has been released physically?"

Involución wasn't released physically, because at that time the band split. They give in 2006 CD-R with photocopy artwork to the fans, promoters and friends, after that the band upload it to megaupload, but it dissapear when Megaupload stopped, that's the reason why the uploaded it to Bandcamp. If you don't want this. I can erase that demo of the discography of the band. The other material exist physically.

Thanks

So, the 2017 CD "Víctimas de Nuestra Propia Ignorancia" is "death metal".

Sewer Goddess needs to be "un-blacklisted".

Well-made argument. I assume you mean based on the new album? That one was already reviewed when it came out. While it's somewhat doom-y/metallic, it still sounds more like dark industrial than metal. I do remember that some mods disagreed with that assessment, though.

Today the band Thrashred (http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Thr ... 540397110#) was rejected because of this reason: "Is that demo only given out for reviews/potential label deals or can anyone order/get it?". This demo really can be got by anyone, for example, on a concert of this band. These photos can confirm my words:
https://instagram.com/p/1xymbfNN3j/?taken-by=thrashred
https://instagram.com/p/3PdA_FtN0X/?taken-by=thrashred
https://pp.vk.me/c623730/v623730337/35e ... 2WhQCI.jpg

Artyom Ukhov: ok, resubmit.


ah yes, the problem here is that the genre is a metal/punk mixture and I'm not sure if all those releases are really acceptable. The Lo justo y necesario split, for example is punk, Y tú no lo sabes seems to be that too, for the most part. I was asking about Involución specifically, because it sounded like it might be metal enough, but there is no download available, only streaming. Can you provide some more direct evidence that it was distributed on CD-R? Some old reviews, photos, trade lists, any kind of mention? Failing that, how was the upload shared? Did the band have a link on their website or something like that?

NU-METAL???? Ok, we don't have the same definitions of Nu-metal.

http://www.nuclearblast.de/en/label/mus ... lment.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devilment

«Predecessors

Alternative metal, funk metal, rap metal, grunge and industrial metal bands of the 1980s and 1990s including Faith No More, Mr. Bungle, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Jane's Addiction, Tool, Primus, Rage Against the Machine, Helmet, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, Godflesh, Nine Inch Nails and Ministry have been identified as laying groundwork for the development of nu metal, such as combining aggressive riffs with pop structures and drawing influence from a variety of genres within and outside of heavy metal music.

Groove metal and thrash metal bands of the same era such as Pantera, Sepultura, Metallica and Anthrax have also been cited as influential to nu metal. Anthrax pioneered the rap metal sound by fusing hip hop with metal on their EP I'm the Man.»

The above is a sample from this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nu_metal and as you can see, some bands that started nu-metal are listed above and here on the archive. ???????????
It's not what I have in mind when I hear the term Nu-metal, more like Slipknot, System of a Down etc. Don't you think admins here are a little too picky? Some bands were metal before but, then switched style for the most of their career and are still here (Ulver) Also, who are they here at MA to decide what is ok to be classified as an "OK METAL" band? Anyways, I don't care what they think, I still think Devilment should be here. If you listen to the newest COF song, it has influences out of the "OK METAL" criteria. I own Devilment and it is NOT what I call Nu-metal!

Maybe MA should widen a bit of their criterias and evolve to follow the reality of metal music in general. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a radio guy, not at all but, metal is evolving, so should MA. I know MA will be pissed at me for this comment and probably want to ban me but, if they take a deep breath and act maturely, they will understand that I'm right.

With that being said, have a nice day.

P.S Another band blacklisted here (although they share members with Blinded by Faith) is "Ill-Gotten Throne"
In Flames? Now they have become heavy metal/nu-metal for a while too!

Cold Blooded Murder is a Russian band that is a strong mix of brutal/slam death metal and beatdown hardcore. Their music can be found on bandcamp at https://coldbloodedmurder.bandcamp.com/

They were rejected because it is "kinda hard to say if this is beatdown hardcore/deathcore or basically just slam." Seeing as the Archives have been accepting other hardcore/metalcore bands with strong death metal influences like No Zodiac, Xibalba and Shattered Realm, I think Cold Blooded Murder is definitely acceptable.

We don't really consider Wikipedia a trustworthy source for metal. It's full of inaccuracies and weird tag choices. They have Body Count in a list of speed metal bands, for example. Their definitions of metal and ways of doing things are not ours. And, erm, surely you realise that a label page isn't an entirely objective source? Also what derigin posted below.


Yeah, Ulver are here because they have released metal material. Devilment have not, last time they were assessed.


Well, we are running a metal database and try to draw a line somewhere. As such, it should be obvious why we can decide this for our site. You are free to disagree, we don't claim to dictate what people are allowed to call metal and what they aren't. But we have the audacity to try and administrate our own site.


Evidently.


That old bullshit line again. People just love using it, but it's such a pathetic and immature trick. "You're probably going to ban me for this, but..." This sort of passive-aggressive victim playing really gets on my nerves. Nobody is going to get banned for posting their opinion, even if they do so in a particularly obnoxious, ignorant manner like you just did. But nice (not really) attempt at painting us as the megalomaniac, censoring villains.


I don't see them on the blacklist.


Your point being?


I remember five mods or so discussing this band, it was a real bitch to judge. Some were for it, some against, some didn't know what to think. I basically rejected them because of this lack of a consensus that they belong.

Vempyre, you touched on a few things, let me explain our take on them.

First, MA is not Wikipedia or Nuclear Blast or any other site. Those sites don't act as authorities over us. Every site and every person out there has their own idea what is and isn't metal. We base our own understanding of what is and isn't metal on whether the music has metal riffs. As you listen to more and more metal, generally you pick up on what those riffs should sound like and how bands apply them to their music. You can also tell how they're different from "rock", "punk", "hardcore" and every other non-metal style of music out there. Unfortunately, there's a lot of genres out there that have "metal" in their name, but do not have metal riffs in their music. Nu-metal, alternative metal, rap metal and so on do not have metal riffs. It does suck seeing "metal" get appropriated into genre labels that are better suited as "rock", "punk", or "hardcore." Sadly that's just how it is, though.

Second, we have no intention of "widening" our criteria beyond what it is already, especially to "follow the reality of metal music" as you think it might be. Fuck that. Metal riffs or bust. You asked who are we to judge what is OK to be classified as metal? That's a judgment we don't make. We judge only what is acceptable to be added to our site. Nowhere do we suggest that we are trying to seek to be an authority on what is and isn't metal. If people see us that way, that's nice of them but that isn't our purpose. The way bands are judged here is on whether they fit our rules, and if they don't fit those rules they aren't accepted. That's what makes a band "OK METAL" for this site.

Third, so long as a band has released at least one predominantly metal album they are accepted here. What does this mean? It means that if a band releases one metal album and then switches to non-metal for the rest of their career, then that one metal album is enough to have them accepted here. We don't remove bands if they turn away from metal and/or become better known for their non-metal music. That one album is the gatekeeper, and metal is the key. It's probably best to think of MA not so much as an encyclopedia of "metal bands" but instead an encyclopedia of "metal albums (or works)." It's awesome that the vast majority of bands that have metal albums are ones that stay metal and can be called metal bands, but there's many exceptions.

Lastly, your comment: "I know MA will be pissed at me for this comment and probably want to ban me but, if they take a deep breath and act maturely, they will understand that I'm right." We're not gonna ban you for that post. Please stop making us out to be draconian, elitist assholes just because we wont accept a band that you like. The whole arrogance of saying "I'm right and you're wrong" is utter bullshit. This site has its own idea what is metal and you have your own idea what is metal, neither of them are objectively "right", but neither of them are also objectively "wrong." That said, there is a "right" and a "wrong" for what we accept to our site and if you don't wish to respect that, as we respect you, then we advise you that there are probably better places suited online to your interests.

I don't think that's a good reason to reject a band. At the very least put it to a vote or something.

Well, as I said, there sort of was a vote in the form of mod discussion. Roughly equal yay's and nay's with a peppering of "dunno" on both sides, IIRC, but there is an unwritten policy of "when in doubt, reject", i.e. for borderline submissions, if there isn't something approaching a consensus one way or another we like to err on the side of caution.

I was wondering why Æon Spoke was blacklisted. Was it considered a full-time involvement when Cynic was on hold, hence no side project? Are the two cynics not prominent enough in the scene? Or is it the music itself?

Considering that Cynic was on hold for 12 years, yes, it counts as a full-time band, so it doesn't count under the side project rule.

PDS.

I was curious why Alluvion (USA) is blacklisted. Thanks

Blacklist note cites "modern rock".

Thanks

Just to play Devilment's advocate, would Devilment fall under the side project category of things? (Don't care either way but was curious!)

Maybe. When it comes to accepting non-metal, there are numerous questions we ask ourselves: If it's a side-project, is it actually the side-project of a notable metal musician? Was it created in tandem with a metal musician's metal works, as an intended side-project of that artist, or was it simply a project that the musician joined up or helped out with? Is the project itself notable among metalheads? In essence, does the musician consider it his or her project, a part of his or her scene or "metal portfolio"? Does it have listenership among metalheads? Ideally, is it a known project with some level of "worldwide" recognition or distribution? If those conditions are not met, does the project have any historical importance on its own within the metal scene? Is it a project that could be considered as relevant in the metal scene? Has it had any impact on metal or is it just tangential? Ultimately, does this project belong? Does it help us in our goal as a comprehensive metal encyclopedia to include it as part of our database, as a supplement to our metal information? These are not questions that can be easily answered through measured solutions. Ultimately as mods we rely on our own arbitrary perspectives as staff members to make judgments on these projects.

For these reasons it's easier to judge side-projects that are historical than it is to judge and accept a side-project that's brand new. So it's a "maybe" from me. I'm also not absolutely certain it's a side-project (a project Dani Filth founded/started) or a project he helped get rolling, but that may be picking hairs. Not really sure. We'll talk about it among staff.

To add a side note, Dani filth joined Devilment and helped it get rolling. The band was created and written by a guy called Daniel J. Finch

I tried to register the band Cradle Of God, but was rejected with the allegation "A band needs a valid release before they can be accepted to the site - a valid release is one that's either".

But I already saw some bands here without any release registered, All the informations that I have about this band came directly of their vocalist "Cross" (I have contact with him through of facebook and VK).

This band just have two singles released through of bancamp (That I believe could be registered here) and the album (Remember) will be released soon.

Please, analyze these informations...
I will wait for answers.
Thanks.

Is that so? Such as?


Digital singles are not valid releases according to our rules. They can be listed in a band's discography once it has been approved, but cannot form the basis of a band's inclusion themselves. Please wait until the album is released before you resubmit.

Too bad...if the things works this way, so be it.
Thanks.

I don't wanna cause any trouble with this subject, but just answering your question (Is that so? Such as?) this band http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Vastago/3540278466 is a example of an registered band with incomplete informations in the discography section...

Band entries such as this are generally a result of bands added based on older zine articles or releases in distros where we don't know the complete tracklisting. These generally require a reliable source which states that the band had something that would qualify as a valid release, and is unambiguously metal. We don't have the exact details of that submission for this band, but part of it was this zine review.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090715015 ... iews/v.htm

While bands such as these can be somewhat ambiguous, we do the best to work with them within our rules.

If you don't see a release listed in the band's discography section, but only in the additional notes, it doesn't mean that the release doesn't exist... It just means we don't have some of the data needed to add it (release date, track titles, number of tracks, etc.).