I'm sorry that your personal views on metal don't align with the site's views on metal, but further arguing about it wont lead us to change it, or to change the name of the site. Still unhappy? Well, we can't help you there.

Like Morrigan said: there are numerous sorts of music that have been called Metal.
I personally think giving all kinds of different names to all kinds of variations of Metal is wrong in the first place. I do, however, understand why people do so: to have a safe framework to confine to.

Fact is: either something is more Metal or it is not. Looking at the roots of Metal BTBAM are too much strayed from that origin and are therefor considered not Metal. Simple as that!

A little bit of history on metal and it's subgenres for your convenience:
In the past there have been genres like Funk Metal (bands like Extreme and early Red Hot Chili Peppers were considered this), Techno Trash (Now mostly considered as being Progressive Trash), Rap Metal (early Beasty Boys) and various others. These genre names have been swept away for they were only considered useful to a very limited group of bands

Of course Trash is nothing more than an amalgam of traditional Metal and Punk/Hardcore.
Then again: Biohazard is considered Hardcore while they are more metal than bands like GBH. I personally would consider them cross-over but since that term had been getting a somewhat negative taste in some people's mouth they deemed bands like Biohazard Hardcore for that sounded a lot cooler.

The term hardcore is always wrong to consider calling some kind of music since it doesn't really tell anything about what kind of music it really is. It only defines the people playing it: they are true to the roots of the music they are playing. The first music considered hardcore was nothing more then punk with an attitude: These guys could play their instruments while most punkbands at that time couldn't.

If I listen to what some of my pupils call hardcore these days You would go screaming mad as a hatter! It has nothing to do with either Metal nor Punk! (check out Basshunter and things like that if you really care)

In a nutshell: The bands you like can't always be on this side because the moderators and the owners have gotten to an agreement on whether these bands can be considered metal or not. BTBAM for one is considered too much punk/progressive (a term nowadays too much used for bands that put in a lot of quiet parts in their music) then they are metal. And this is considered with the historical growth of Metal and it's subgenres in mind!

Why is Shadowmind from Norway blacklisted?

Their new album sounds somewhat more metallic that their old one (http://shadowmind.bandcamp.com/album/rebirth)
http://shadowmind.bandcamp.com/album/world-gone-mad

Here's also their CD
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =3&theater

I'm afraid it seems like somebody's already beaten you to it, mate:
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Apnea/3540343582

No, they aren't ad hominem fallacies. They're insults. If I said, "You are wrong about BTBAM being metal because you're an idiot", that would be an ad hominem fallacy. If I say "BTBAM isn't considered metal because the admins have decided it, and incidentally, you're also an idiot", that's not an ad hominem argument, that's just an insult. You might say it's rude or childish, but fortunately, I don't care right now.


ROFL. Are you fucking kidding me? You're using our linking to Wikipedia regarding SOPA as an argument to give legitimacy to genre discussion? You wanna talk about fallacies, well here's a prime example of non-sequitur. We linked to Wikipedia regarding SOPA, yes. Because it was relevant regarding SOPA. Where Wikipedia isn't relevant is when using it as a source to discuss metal genres.


So what? Wikipedia only allows citations from "notable" (read: mainstream) sources, and we all know that's worthless when discussing metal (ever saw those Rolling Stone magazine "best metal album" kind of lists? yeah, that's the kind of source Wikipedia uses because it's "notable"). You really wanna use Allmusic as a source? The same Allmusic who lists Nightwish, Opeth and Lacuna Coil as symphonic black metal? Yeah, I reject your "evidence", in fact, I reject all of your pseudo-evidence, I couldn't care less what other sites say about what's metal or not, they are irrelevant and have no bearing whatsoever on this site's policies. Why should they, really, they aren't funding this site, now are they.

But for fuck's sake, allmusic... I really suggest you stop posting, because your credibility just keeps sinking with every post. Thanks for the laughs though. Bye now.

Sorry to bring up something that I guess has been thoroughly debated over and over.

I remember from several years back (2005?) that a discussion here lead to the conclusion from moderators that they didn't consider Soulfly to be metal and therefor shouldn't be accepted on the site. However, some moderator said that "the day they release a metal album they will be accepted" or something like that. I don't care much about Soulfly, but I have listened to at least their last 3 or 4 albums once each, and every time I have thought back to the moderator's argument. While much of the vocals might be typical of the metalcore bands you don't accept (and probably share a lot of fans), the music sounds very much like metal to me, and I don't really see the big difference between Soulfly and for example Lamb of God. Don't get me wrong, I don't think most of the bands you reject should be accepted, but there seems like the reason why some bands (like Soulfly) aren't accepted has more to do with image than music, and "the day they release a metal album" has passed.


Rofl

We're in the process of reviewing Soulfly again. We have done so with every album they've released recently. But with the latest album, we're doing another review.

The policy we have stood by has always been that we would accept projects so long as the project has released a without-a-doubt predominantly metal album. It might seem at times that Soulfly gets scrutinized more harshly then other bands, but the policy remains the same.

Why were A7X (Avenged Sevenfold) and Pinkly Smooth blacklisted??? The whole mallcore misconception is a load of horse crap because they sure as hell ain't Korn or Disturbed. Yes, they do appeal to a more mainstream audience, but that is because they came along at a time when moron emo kids were running rampant and looking for a good soundtrack to cut themselves to, and somehow A7X fell into that category. They are not at all an emo band, even though their first two records may seem that way with the screamed vocals and the death growls, but after City Of Evil they adopted a style more akin to Pantera. I dont see how they could be just rock, just listen to Beast And The Harlot or Lost It All. That sounds pretty metallic to me...as for Pinkly Smooth, they are simply experimental or avant garde metal, and it is a bit more understandable if you consider them rock, but A7X...Come On! It may be modern, but I think its still metal. If others think not, I can provide affible proof. K.G

Oh yeah, you have some proofs Avenged Sevenfold is metal? Please provide them!! Their recent stuff is modern hard rock, their early stuff is metalcore with no metal elements. Maybe Soulfly will get accepted, but A7X doesn't have a metal album yet. And their inclusion here is not even a debate.

Check The Beast And The Harlot, Sidewinder (although that may be considered hard rock to the metal purists), Burn It Down, Bat Country, Critical Acclaim, Demons, Afterlife (probablly considered rock to metal purists), Unbound (The Wild Ride), Nightmare, Danger Line, Unholy Confessions...the list goes on bro...what is it with the mods on here against metalcore...you guys accepted Pantera and personally The Great Southern Trendkill is really the precursor to metalcore. So what if it has growled vocals, the music is still metal!

As well, what the hell did I do to get bitched out like that?

Well, you said "wikipedia. The same site that has articles on "Nintendocore", " That to me is an ad hominem fallacy. By the way, I know "it is your site and you cry if you want to" but please watch the way you treat people, you're not gonna be happy when a SockPuppet insults you.

"it was relevant regarding SOPA. Where Wikipedia isn't relevant is when using it as a source to discuss metal genres." Let me understand, do you think Wiki uses different standards for Metal and SOPA? No, they are objective. You should not contradict yourself linking Wikipedia on something and denying it on some others, that seems to be double standards.

"I couldn't care less what other sites say about what's metal or not, they are irrelevant" And again, that's your main problem, still don't you know why? There's a lot of people talking outside -HeavyMetalEncyclopedia.com, metalobserver, kerrang- you should listen once in a while.

"Thanks for the laughs though" You are welcome.

wtf???

He's replying to Morrigan and doesn't know how to use the ''quote button''.

Ah...nevermind

Maybe he should use it then.

Not to sound like the devil's advocate, but when it comes to Avenged Sevenfold has the moderators reviewed their album The Nightmare? With a widely known band such as this it is very likely that they did though, and no doubt the topic has come up since July, 2010 (when that album was released)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94bGzWyHbu0&ob=av2e

Though it is hard to classify this, the leadwork at the start and the middle of the song, as well as the guitar solo are all definitely metal. The rhythms remind me of a bit more modern version of Pantera (metalness could be stretching it a bit though, it's very simplified riffing). The chorus is less metal and more hard rock. Some of the vocals remind me of Black Label Society.

Not to say the whole album is like this. The latest Slipknot album has several moments of melodic death metal, but it's still nu-metal.

To quote or not to quote: do it at discretion.

Just talked with Hellblazer (linked him some songs of Nightmare) and he's saying he doesn't think A7V is metal, albeit having some parts of songs he's considering metal, as a whole it's not. The rules are asking for a fully metal album, not just bits and pieces here an there. Same thing applies for post-rock/metal bands or Slipknot.

Well, there you have it. This guy thinks we should be more like Kerrang. You know, the joke of the metal world. Yeah, like that's gonna happen... go wank to your Rolling Stone magazines and stop pestering us with your inanities, please.

hi, my band named Leaf Rust already exist. pls visit our site www.leafrust.com or fb profile myspace profile.
tnx

No opinion yet?

The start was almost metal, but as soon the vocals start, it's just hard rock or something like that. It oddly reminded me to the most bland tracks off Metallica's Load and Reload. The singer tries hard to sing like Hetfield that line of the 'fucking nightmare'.

I'd like to ask a revisionism about War of Ages, since from their second CD "Pride of the Wicked" (2006) they stopped playing Metalcore/Hardcore. And now (Fire from the Tomb - 2007, Arise and Conquer - 2008 Eternal - 2010 and most recently Return to Life - 2012) they are playing Melodic Death Metal.

Listen and please reconsider:

Melodic Death era:

2006 - Pride of the Wicked
"Strength Within"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcX7Bj9KKAc

2008 - Arise and Conquer
"Trough the Flames"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_073eYAtOk
"All Consuming Fire"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAYjcQBxTz4

2010 - Eternal
"Collapse"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_5GNxfPUEc

I think Eternal is possibly metal enough, at the very least as metal as Killswitch Engage and As I Lay Dying. But probably a bit more borderline and recently the line between what is acceptable and not acceptable metalcore for MA has become confusing for me. I thought about bringing up this band a year ago after seeing them perform live with Times of Grace. Here are Youtube links to all of the songs off that album for a moderator to listen to and judge for themselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_5GNxfPUEc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBic21g5QJk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lom-TxHYFKg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr6dQoTiong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nccnpwENVo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_XNgaFonc0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG3ynVbuBEg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tjRgXntrUM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO5sTbQzOok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x432x2sl7Vk

I haven't heard the previous albums in full (I got Eternal at the show I mentioned) to present my opinion, but it seems the melodic death metal is largely present in past work.

I heard, I cringed, I continue to blacklist War of Ages. Sorry.

Also, Goatfangs, you are one of the worst judges of what is considered metal enough when it comes to -core or metal infused with the other. Could you please not respond to others' queries on such borderline projects, in this thread?

Too stupid to exist. Let me guess, you were the first.

I know you're gonna ban me, I don't care. I just want to let you know Kerrang is not the joke of the metal world but you. You might think, you Morrigan, you have the power but you are nothing but someone that owns a site and that is wrong. Do you think you are right about your beliefs? Not. There have been a lot of people around the world with power that have been wrong but there were demolished to nothing, you know, Hitler, Rasputin, NOBODY BUYS YOUR SHIT, YOU ARE WRONG AND YOU FUCKING KNOW IT, GIVE UP AND ONCE FOR A WHILE UNDERSTAND THE FUCKING METAL REALITY.

hahaha, get a life, dude. Sweet use of the Godwin argument right there!

I've been compared to Hitler. My life is now complete.

I'd like to point out that demolishing both Hitler and Rasputin took a LOT of effort. So comparing anyone to those two is actually a compliment.

Pantera also released Power Metal and Cowboys From Hell. You know, if a band turns non-metal after releasing just one album that qualifies as metal, it may be accepted. Avenged Sevenfold has metal influences, but it's not metal, sorry. Why do you even bother to mention songs that are supposedly metal if you doubt that a metal purist accepts them as such?

Also, at The Beast And The Harlot and the skate punk chorus.

Why was this band blacklisted?
http://thosewholiebeneath.bandcamp.com/ ... ichrist-ep
Sound a bit too -corish, but they have a CD out
http://www.victoryrecords.com/merch/cds ... _Awakening

Well, there you go.

I have a rather poor judgement when it comes to bands that are metalcore or deathcore. I do want to make sure that it sounds dominantly metal.

I wasn't responding to give my opinion per say, but rather provide further song samples for a moderator for the sake of convenience.

Just curious as to why Desolate Winds have been blacklisted?
All I can think is lack of physical release, which in the past was true, but their debut EP is now available physically
http://lonevigilrecordings.bigcartel.co ... -pre-order

band already have a physical release, so can you submit it on MA?

Re-submit.