No, Rammstein has 0% metal in their sound.

It's hilarious how nobody has tried to actually explain why Rammstein is metal yet.

Were you just being sarcastic with the "Are you for real?"?

Sarcasm doesn't come into it. Probably time for me to drop this, though, the thread's already struggling without my contribution.

Are you talking about Tomahawk? I'm not so sure about them as I haven't heard them yet but from the reviews they do not seem very Metal.

But ultimately, this site belongs to Hellblazer and Morrigan. They set the rules and the guidelines and they are going to accept a band of their liking even if it's a borderline case.

Rammstein are not Metal. Still, they have more Metal influences than TSO.

EDIT: And I'll bring an example.

Here's a Rammstein song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc9ZgDNQSIE

The above link contains a song from Rammstein's debut. It surely is a non-Metal song. Still, from 1:57 to 2:11 a Metal riff pops up (even a mediocre one) that is accompanied by a faster double bass drumming patern.

And here's a TSO song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkAhmH40kiM

The above link contains TSO's Wizards In Winter. They have minimal Metal influences but still 98% of their actual sound can be described as Prog Rock and not as Metal.

The final conclusion is this:

In borderline cases, the band are accepted or denied according the likes of the site owners.

Not Tomahawk...something a bit more popular.

Yes, the second paragraph is right. We don't pay for the site to stay up, so it isn't ours.

Mazbe lower tuning, but no much more.

T.S.O. are also structurally a mellower version of Savatage

http://www.myspace.com/tsoofficial
Listen to it, and you will see, that they have definitely a lot of common with metal soundwise.

The music is sometimes borderline to prog rock, but it was decided, that they are on the right side of the border.


Maybe it will be a foreign concept to some black and death metal fans in forum, but a band does not need endless blastbeat orgies or chainsaw guitars to be considered metal.

A lot of the kids nowadays consider anything with a heavy guitar to be metal, unfortunately. They don't even listen to the black and death metal, though. They listen to stuff like mallcore, metalcore, and groove metal. They wouldn't even consider some of the older bands to be metal.

That is sadly true, of course.

I'm surprised that Nightgaunt hasn't come in here and banned a quarter of the people posting in this thread.

As for the question of TSO vs Rammstein, TSO's metal aspects are lost in Paul O'Neil's production job. Structurally they have much more in common with metal, as was said before, and this can be heard a lot more easily in their concerts.

Pardon me??? Do you even know the bands I like? I tend to hate all the BM bands with endless blastbeats and that's why I tend to dislike most of the Norwegian 90's scene. And really, what my musical preferences have to do with the judgement of a metalness of a band?

The only Metal songs of TSO are the covers of classicals (like Requiem, which is a decent cover, and Wish Liszt). Beethoven's Last Night is not even a worthy Prog Rock album cause that's the kind of songs TSO write. Boring, family-friendly Prog Rock.

Personally, I believe that neither of the bands are Metal enough to be on the Archives. But still, that's Morrigan's and Hellblazer's call not ours. The decision is already taken so I guess it's of no use to discuss it anymore.

I'm not stupid enough to take a stand one way or another about whether or not Rammstein is Metal (wouldn't want some posranek to tell me I hadn't "read the rules," and then repeat that I "hadn't read the rules" as a response to my insisting that I had but that they're vague and subjective, then follow that up with an accusation that "I hadn't read the rules"), but I don't hear Metal when I hear Godflesh; I hear guitar-based industrial music with a drum machine. Don't get me wrong, I love Godflesh, but I had always assumed that the reason they were here was their connection to Napalm Death, etc., not their intrinsic Metal-ness. It might not be the best example to trot out in explaining what Industrial Metal is is all I'm saying.

On the other hand, I 99.9% agree with the genre inclusion/exclusion choices here, especially the really loopy ones like :Of the Wand and the Moon: and Mortiis, mainly due to my liking these bands.

OP, just accept it--they aren't going to change their minds. Haven't you read the rules?!

When dealing with borderline genres, we go on a case-by-case basis, as has been said a million times. In the case of Rammstein, it's been decided they're not metal enough for the purposes of this site. In the case of Godflesh, it's been decided they are. Get it?

People say it over and over again and it doesn't make it true. But then again, Mors_Gloria cannot make a post that doesn't drip with pure, unfiltered stupidity and ignorance, so take them for what they're worth. *shrugs*

One more thing, for Svartalf: Since I terminated your suspension, you've shown an emergent tendency for whining like a kicked dog when confronted by the system. Insulting a mod for doing his job--even in another language--is apt to result in your remains ending up sooner in neat little packages in the freezer of the local budget taqueria, rather than later in that esteemed shady spot under the old oak out back....especially not when you are the one to pick the fight (or try to), as here. If you are so deplorably mistreated and underappreciated, the sensible thing for you to do is to find somewhere more worthy of you.