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SitraAhra
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:46 am
Posts: 286
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:00 pm 
 

Quote:
I vote for checking all the bands under Thrashcore since this genre is a pure punk rock genre as I know


One of the dumbest opinion about genre I've hear in this Forum.THRASHCORE is allmost the same term as CROSSOVER. THRASH+HARDCORE=THRASHCORE/CROSSOVER.In both cases we must see if Metal is still dominant because in diferent countries people use different slogans for the same genre.

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DGYDP
Leather Lion

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:19 pm
Posts: 1244
Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:43 pm 
 

Uh ... no. Thrashcore is a subgenre of hardcore while crossover is thrash metal with bigger influence from hardcore than regular thrash bands.

Unfortunately people mix the two terms up quite a lot, I know a bunch of people label it as synonyms. The only thing thrashcore and crossover thrash have in common is some similarities in the name. Thrashcore is a pure hardcore genre. Get your facts straight, please.

Calling crossover thrashcore is a proof of ignorance about the early years of hardcore and thrash metal.
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SitraAhra
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:46 am
Posts: 286
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:00 am 
 

C'mon people.Just stop using WIKI as source of Truth.I saw Thrashcore (As genre) used back in 1991-1998 in lots of fanzines.

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Helvede
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:28 pm
Posts: 1429
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:49 am 
 

SitraAhra wrote:
Quote:
I vote for checking all the bands under Thrashcore since this genre is a pure punk rock genre as I know


One of the dumbest opinion about genre I've hear in this Forum.THRASHCORE is allmost the same term as CROSSOVER. THRASH+HARDCORE=THRASHCORE/CROSSOVER.In both cases we must see if Metal is still dominant because in diferent countries people use different slogans for the same genre.


I totally agree with this. Thrashcore has been used in the metal society for years for a description of pretty much the same as Crossover-metal bands. I have also seen bands like (early) Anthrax, Nuclear Assault, Dead Horse, Acid Reign etc. described as Thrashcore over the last 15-20 years in different medias. Also the new bands like Municipal Waste and so have been added that tag to their genre. But of course it would make sense if MA sticks to one dominant description: Either Thrashcore or Crossover. Maybe Thrashcore is a past term for the same thing Crossover is today in metal, I don't know.

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Nyaricus
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:52 pm
Posts: 1242
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:44 pm 
 

helvede wrote:
But of course it would make sense if MA sticks to one dominant description: Either Thrashcore or Crossover.

I'll expand on this.

Thrash, Thrashcore, Crossover-thrash, Metalcore, etc were all names used for the same style of music, but they have diverged into more distinct genres, as we all now know.

Thrash is Thrash, ala the US 4 and the German 3 and their descendants.

Crossover-Thrash is a style of Thrash which goes band to it's hardcore punk roots more.

Metalcore is used for the (more modern) sound of any mash-up of Hardcore and Metal which doesn't fall under the Crossover-thrash sub-genre

And thus we have perfectly fine tags for all our required sub-genres of thrash (asisde from Groove, Post-thrash, Deathrash and the like). Really, the usage of Thrashcore, which is seemingly being used as a synonym for Crossover-Thrash, is redundant, as that term does in fact also apply to a sub-genre of Hardcore. SitraAhra point of it being used as a genre back over 10 years ago is a fine one, except (for example) Metallica used to be called Power Metal, etc. Really, it's kinda up to us to continue to sort out genre names - that's most of the purpose of this website, after all - the recording of metal band information.

So, I think the term Thrashcore, despite its use as a synonym of Crossover, should be largely cut from the Archives. It's a useless, and rather confusing overlap of the same term for Crossover-Thrash, and we have a perfectly fine term for that already - Crossover-thrash.

Thoughts?

cheers,
--N
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Hoarfrost MB BM

"Doom is the blues of metal, you either feel it or you don't."
-Doomsday

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MMisantropo
Magnificient Degluter of Yummy Ants

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 10:52 pm
Posts: 2739
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:15 pm 
 

SitraAhra wrote:
C'mon people.Just stop using WIKI as source of Truth.I saw Thrashcore (As genre) used back in 1991-1998 in lots of fanzines.


Lampchop is correct. Thrashcore is a punk subgenre, older than thrash metal itself. This term, among others, is mostly misused on Eastern Europe.

As I said before, yes, we should get rid of it, but simply substituting it for crossover thrash isn't the best option.

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Nyaricus
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:52 pm
Posts: 1242
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:25 pm 
 

MMisantropo wrote:
SitraAhra wrote:
C'mon people.Just stop using WIKI as source of Truth.I saw Thrashcore (As genre) used back in 1991-1998 in lots of fanzines.


Lampchop is correct. Thrashcore is a punk subgenre, older than thrash metal itself. This term, among others, is mostly misused on Eastern Europe.

As I said before, yes, we should get rid of it, but simply substituting it for crossover thrash isn't the best option.

A band-by-band analysis needs to be done, in that case.
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Hoarfrost MB BM

"Doom is the blues of metal, you either feel it or you don't."
-Doomsday

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oneyoudontknow
Cum insantientibus furere necesse est.

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 6:25 pm
Posts: 5347
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:47 am 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=126038
Doom/Black Metal?

Doom/Gothic Metal or maybe even Doom/Death Metal sounds reasonable. Judging from the one song that is uploaded on myspace.
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I write for these magazines:
http://swirlsofnoise.com/
http://againstmagazine.com/

Analysis of band names:
http://www.metal-archives.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=103987

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Fanfarigoule
Veteran

Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:59 am
Posts: 3294
Location: France
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:36 pm 
 

You're right... Fixed.

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dust666
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:46 pm
Posts: 683
Location: Romania
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:55 am 
 

http://www.cede.ch/en/music-cd/frames/f ... obj=687008
This sounds to me like power metal and not melodic heavy.
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=32048

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MMisantropo
Magnificient Degluter of Yummy Ants

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 10:52 pm
Posts: 2739
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 7:00 am 
 

I've changed it to "melodic power metal", but please don't bring such endless discussions to this thread.

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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1000
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:28 am 
 

Kerbenok is listed as "Black/Death/Thrash Metal with Pagan influences" when "Pagan Black Metal" would perfectly fit.

From what I have heard, it has all the black metal aspects (riffs, uptempo, lo-fi prod) plus pagan metal elements in the riffs, ambiences and acoustics breaks.

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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1000
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:03 pm 
 

Cheers Witcher.


Here is a picky one, sorry, and about crust related stuff, (again, sorry). And, not sure, but I think I already mentionned it.

Martyrdod has an elaborated genre on MA's page: Black/Death Metal/Hardcore

Black Metal/Crust would do, as Martyrdod is simply extreme crustcore with black metal sound, aesthetics and riffage.

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FireNinja
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:39 pm
Posts: 16
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 4:15 pm 
 

what exactly wold define something to be "crust"

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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1000
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 4:20 pm 
 

In my opinion:
fast d-beat / "old school" blast beat, abrasive guitars, shrieked or on the contrary growled vocals. There is also a very distinctive riff work (the same pattern most of the time), which is hard to be described by words.
Basically, the kind of riffage that made skitsystem do the exact same music for 10+ years :D (still, it's pretty good.)
So, most importantly, the crust aspect resides in the drum and guitar work.

For extensive definitions, either check wiki page about is, there are key elements, or listen to Skitsystem, Anatomi-71, Bombstrike (swedish scene) and Disrupt, Skaven, After the Bombs, Nausea (US scene.)
Non extensive list.

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oneyoudontknow
Cum insantientibus furere necesse est.

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 6:25 pm
Posts: 5347
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:04 am 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=126735
currently: raw Black Metal
should be changed to:
Raw Black Metal/ Noise

listen to the first track and the last one on their MySpace profile. The band describes themselves this way:
Quote:
Proyect OF P.k(Zatrarath,Wertimavet,ex wisethrone) is a really venezuelan first band of noise black born in 2004 pure noise and antimusic more nothing in honor of the self destruction
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I write for these magazines:
http://swirlsofnoise.com/
http://againstmagazine.com/

Analysis of band names:
http://www.metal-archives.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=103987

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6077
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:38 am 
 

oneyoudontknow wrote:
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=126735
currently: raw Black Metal
should be changed to:
Raw Black Metal/ Noise

listen to the first track and the last one on their MySpace profile. The band describes themselves this way:
Quote:
Proyect OF P.k(Zatrarath,Wertimavet,ex wisethrone) is a really venezuelan first band of noise black born in 2004 pure noise and antimusic more nothing in honor of the self destruction

I have changed it, but again, that was not alll THAT important.

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SitraAhra
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:46 am
Posts: 286
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:51 am 
 

NIGHTFALL(Gre) labeled as Black/Gothic,and I must say that it's pure bullshit.maybe in early albums they played something like this but from 'Athenian Echoes" souned like Atmospheric Death metal.No big signs BM there.

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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1000
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:53 am 
 

Please provide links.

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SitraAhra
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:46 am
Posts: 286
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:06 am 
 

Go to NIGHTFALL page and find there Fan MySpace.I listened allmost all albums of NIGHTFALL and even in reviews they were labeled as Dark Death Metal/Atmospheric Death Metal even Dark Death/Doom.But never ever seen comparisons to Black Metal.Yes they have elements of BM,but labes this band as BLACK/GOTHIC ??? This is ridiculous.

Review

Metal Storm

Metal Curse

And a lot more...

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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1000
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:49 am 
 

Cheers.

Sorry, I wasn't talking about the band itself, I trust you, yet to confirm your saying, posting links helps.

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TheGrimWombat
Nelson Wannabe

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1421
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:56 pm 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=16879

Skeletonwitch...Black/Thrash? Can anyone tell me where the black metal sound of this band is other than the vocals? I really can't hear anything other than that...

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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1000
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 4:33 am 
 

Indeed, I am not sure the vocals are enough to define the genre.
Thrash would do, heh? But then again, not that important.

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TheGrimWombat
Nelson Wannabe

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1421
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 4:47 am 
 

AurvandiL wrote:
Indeed, I am not sure the vocals are enough to define the genre.
Thrash would do, heh? But then again, not that important.


Not that important, and being picky...I just don't think that "Black/Thrash" describes them very well and is misleading.

Aura Noir this is not.

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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1000
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 4:48 am 
 

Quite right, they are more "happy' sounding, and technical. Clean prod too. :)

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TheGrimWombat
Nelson Wannabe

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1421
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 4:52 am 
 

AurvandiL wrote:
Quite right, they are more "happy' sounding, and technical. Clean prod too. :)


It's like NWOBHM and Amon Amarth-inspired thrash.

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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1000
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 4:56 am 
 

I don't know much about this genre, and nearly nothing about the band.
Hey, I noticed you are a veteran, can't you change the genre youself? Or can only mods do that?

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TheGrimWombat
Nelson Wannabe

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1421
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:01 am 
 

AurvandiL wrote:
I don't know much about this genre, and nearly nothing about the band.
Hey, I noticed you are a veteran, can't you change the genre youself? Or can only mods do that?


Only mods can change a genre. Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if all veterans could change band genres? I shudder at that thought.

Anyway, I think "Thrash Metal" would suit this band quite nicely. As I said...this can hardly be compared to Aura Noir or Flames of Hell.

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MMisantropo
Magnificient Degluter of Yummy Ants

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 10:52 pm
Posts: 2739
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:26 am 
 

Black thrash isn't the most accurate description, but neither is simply thrash. I'll give it a deeper listen today.

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SitraAhra
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:46 am
Posts: 286
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 9:21 am 
 

MMisanthropo you forgot to say opinion about NIGHTFALL because someone wrote genre as Black/Gothic and this is fukking lie.Theres MINIMUM BM influences on NF sound and albums in general.

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TheGrimWombat
Nelson Wannabe

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1421
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:17 am 
 

MMisantropo wrote:
Black thrash isn't the most accurate description, but neither is simply thrash. I'll give it a deeper listen today.


They're kind of hard to categorize, but black/thrash definitely won't do at all.

I'm interested to see what you decide upon.

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Visionary
Veteran

Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:57 pm
Posts: 2635
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:31 am 
 

Vocals range between melodic death and black and the riffs are clearly thrash. I think thrash metal describes them fine as it has been changed to.
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taleskiss on Kiss wrote:
They influenced MOST of the metal bands of our days, and they are not part of this site? This is unacceptable!!!
I would like to know why is that???
Because they are not considered metal? This is not fare!!!

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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1000
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:44 am 
 

Waited are listed as Death Metal.

As accurately said in the additional notes, "Sludge/Metalcore" would fit better.

Unusual tag, I know, but: metalcore clean (whiny) vocals + some blast beats + tempos from slow to high, typically mid :) + sludge vocals.
The demo material is faster though, pure metalcore.

Listen for yourselves here.

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6077
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:28 am 
 

Reports for Die Toten kehren wieder mit dem Wind


May 8th, 2008
Posted at 01:43

Unless there is a specific reason for it, I think the rest of the words in the band name should be capitalized.
--
Is it so hard to accept, that other languages do not follow the English grammatical rules?

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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1000
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:32 am 
 

Ahah, pretty cool actually.

Speak English or Die!!

heh? :)

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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1000
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:34 pm 
 

Huge error there.

David J. Gibbs is listed as Heavy Metal. It is Black Metal.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Quick listen

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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1000
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:48 pm 
 

Witcher, just a little question about Walken genre:
you put "Thrash Metal/Crossover/Hardcore".
Isn't crossover a blend of thrash and hardcore?
I mean, I don't think the Thrash and hardcore tags are essentials.

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6077
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:55 pm 
 

AurvandiL wrote:
Witcher, just a little question about Walken genre:
you put "Thrash Metal/Crossover/Hardcore".
Isn't crossover a blend of thrash and hardcore?
I mean, I don't think the Thrash and hardcore tags are essentials.

It only accents the hardcore part in their music.

Hopefully for the last time, please, when the genre is not terribly and fully wrong, let it be.


I also hereby ask the forum mods, what they think about the sense and future of a thread like this...

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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1000
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:57 pm 
 

As you wish.

But then again, there are some terrible mistakes, and if this thread is far from perfect, it is better than the report fonction.

To underline one of those mistakes:

AurvandiL wrote:
Huge error there.

David J. Gibbs is listed as Heavy Metal. It is Black Metal.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Quick listen

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MMisantropo
Magnificient Degluter of Yummy Ants

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 10:52 pm
Posts: 2739
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:27 pm 
 

SitraAhra wrote:
MMisanthropo you forgot to say opinion about NIGHTFALL because someone wrote genre as Black/Gothic and this is fukking lie.Theres MINIMUM BM influences on NF sound and albums in general.


I didn't forget, I simply didn't have any opinion on the subject.

Not yet, at least.

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