The first three albums are basically really fast, hyper-melodic power metal with screaming instead of singing. Also the style they helped solidify that so many bands imitate has been pretty much accepted to be "melodic death/power metal". So yeah, not changing.

Moving along from Sepultura for the moment...

Paul Wardingham ( http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Pau ... 3540323422 ) is listed as "Melodic Death/Progressive Metal", which seems very inaccurate to me (most likely, the guy who submitted the band was not familiar with djent, and thus didn't know how to classify the music he was hearing). Wardingham's style is djent-influenced progressive metal with shredding, so I guess it could be termed "Progressive Metal/Shred" or even "Progressive Metal/Shred with Djent Influences".

Here's a song from his album that typifies his style: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1slmO78HsKM

Thanks!

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Illdisposed/1222

Why aren't these guys melodeath? They clearly aren't just 'death metal'. If you listen to a lot of their songs, there's definitely enough melody to be melodeath and not just death metal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnKu53QNV60
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHBfSl_lStc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q-Hq63Lo5Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChcRo_m2830

Both changed.

Hi, this band http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Pos ... 3540303932
says genre: Death Metal, but the current genre should be Doom/Death Metal, even in their facebook profile they mention, listen here: http://www.postmoderncoffin.pl/en/?id=download thanks

I suggest Rune from the Netherlands be changed from Doom Metal to Death/Doom Metal. They sound just like The Gathering's first album and Phlebotomized (albeit less progressive).

Here is a link to their entire demo.

A concerted argument is being made toward the inclusion of 'djent' in Sybreed's genre tags. Personally, I don't know...they were certainly a precursor of sorts to that scattershot riffing style that seems to be all the rage lately, but otherwise their riffs are rather subdued and groovy in equal (if not more) measure. I didn't want to close this one without some more input, here are some examples:



Report in question:
http://www.metal-archives.com/report/vi ... 3/show/all

Postmodern Coffin has been doomified, Rune deathified.

I also suggest changing Empires from Doom Metal to Sludge/Doom/Post-Metal. Very similar to Pelican.

Proof.

Atra Hora is listed as Black Metal (early), Melodic Death/Black Metal (later).

The band played Black Metal in early days, but now the genre is a mid-tempo atmospheric metal with oriental melodies and ethnic instruments: santoors, dhols etc.
Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP60Rh05qbs

I think the correct genre is "Black Metal (early), Atmospheric Dark Metal with Folk Influences (later)"

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Be ... hem/273523
should definitely be reconsidered. Black Metal? Sounds like old Sodom and stuff. Thrash Metal makes much more sense. Maybe the first demo has been black metal.

Suggestion: Black / Thrash Metal

Can be downloaded here:
http://vonfrostvinyltapes.blogspot.de/2 ... -tape.html

Nightwish....they're called "Symphonic Power Metal" but imo they havent even played power metal since Wishmaster, dunno what else they'd be called atm, maybe just pure "symphonic metal"

Hell f*cking no.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/The_Red_Chord/2781

Shouldn't The Red Chord be Deathcore/Metalcore(early), Technical Death Metal/Grindcore(later) ?? I myself hear plenty of influences on the first 2 albums that would make me think they're technical deathgrind/deathcore more than anything else but actually this band played deathcore as it was supposed to sound, not the wiggercore it became later on..

3rd and 4th album are both pretty much (technical) deathgrind with breakdowns to me, little deathcore to be found there...

1st album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKA1IMMisRM
2nd album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XYLiau108E
3rd album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHw_93fpdwo
4th album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHno2Hm60sA

Tossing my two cents into this: I feel pretty comfortable with calling the first two albums "technical death metal/metalcore" for the sake of brevity with their later material in mind. Early on they played deathcore in a literal sense of the term, sure, but I think that labeling them as just plain "deathcore" would just confuse people since the term doesn't really mean "a literal mix of death metal and metalcore" anymore and is now associated with many other, different sounds and scenes. It'd make the most sense to settle with the genres that existed around the time of Fused Together's release instead of trying to retroactively declare it to be deathcore, sort of like how people don't actually try to retroactively declare Reign in Blood to be a death/thrash album even though it's agreed that it laid down some of the framework that would later become death metal. I still hear a fair bit of metalcore in their later works, anyways. I would propose that no change be made.

Fair enough, it was a so-so case anyway...

Conducting from the Grave needs to be changed to deathcore/melodic death metal http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Con ... rave/38055

There's a common problem on this site where deathcore bands with some melodeath influenced get called "metalcore/melodic death metal". I've reported others in the past and they were subsequently changed.
Conducting from the Grave is guilty of the same case. They are very much part of the deathcore scene, they tour with these bands (supported Suicide Silence in 2010), wear the shirts of other deathcore bands ect. they have never really done or associated anything with a metalcore group let alone ever sounded metalcore.

Also, here's sound samples; clearly in the lane of deathcore with melodeath influence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXt9p7-qmgo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUFymFFB0s8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVa5zAamVTU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUTs8Gdwk1I&feature=kp

I'll check the band right now, but that bolded part is the only one that really matters. I see arguments like that (band x toured with band y and the crowd was mostly z fans so therfore they are not genre a but actually z) pop up from time to time and it always boggles my mind. Maybe it's because of the Black Dahlia Murder thing that made me fly into a rage twice a day for a few years, but who they have drunken pillowfights with is none of our concern.

No opinion?

Conducting from the Grave seems pretty clear cut to me. Changed.

Forgive me for not remembering correctly, but who's the resident expert Mod on grindcore? Is it Alhadis?! Anyway, care to hop in and share a bit of light on the site's view of what is what and how it's differentiated between them?

- death metal/grindcore
- grindcore/death metal
- grindcore

So, death/grind is the easiest, and even more if I pick up on the (early) Terrorizer or Assück template. Lots of death metal drumming and familiarity in the riffs to death metal there, so bands playing a similar mix of the two genres are dubbed likewise. Right?

Now, where my understanding of the site's view is failing is in the differentiation between "grindcore" and "grindcore/death metal". If grindcore bands that are on the Archives are so because they have a stronger death metal influence than a punk one then where's the need to say that a band is "grindcore/death metal"? The way I think you guys see it, the bands tagged only as "grindcore" are closer to the punkier sound but still metallic enough to be here, but how much of a nitpicking difference is there for having the three variations? Likewise, where are the differences set between what's "death metal/grindcore" and "grindcore/death metal"?

I'm sorry for asking but I've been trying to make some sense of what the site's view is on this for a while now, and since I've failed to do it I thought about asking. If this needs to be posted on the genre sticky in the Metal Discussion board please let me know. I didn't post it there because I wanted to avoid regular users pitching in, as what I want here is the Mod's view on the subject.

Hey mate,

Grindcore played with death metal riffs isn't necessarily the same as grindcore played with more clean-cut death metal sections (or death metal played with more obvious grindcore sections, such as Misery Index). For example, bands like The Kill, Discordance Axis and PLF all play pure grindcore with metallic riffs... contrast that with, say, Circle of Dead Children who play a more obvious hybrid of death metal and grindcore. Both groups of bands utilise metal riffs, but the difference is largely in songwriting.


There's no difference between "grindcore/death metal" and "death metal/grindcore" other than that the most prominent genre is listed first. Which is the convention commonly used throughout the site when listing genres.

(While I'm here, it should be noted that in the past, many bands have been submitted to the site as "death metal/grindcore" simply because many users are unfamiliar with grindcore. They've apparently assumed it simply refers to any particularly fast or violent take on death metal. Consequently, many brutal death metal bands are incorrectly labelled "death metal/grindcore" on the site and are in need of correction. So yeah, if you come across a band labelled "grindcore" and it sounds like straight-up death metal, don't hesitate to bring it up )

You mean like "death/doom" vs "doom/death" or "black/death" vs "death/black", depending on the death to grind ratio? Got it.


Same reason then why Nasum or Rotten Sound for example are tagged as "grindcore" as opposed to "grindcore/death metal"? The death metal influence is there but it isn't predominant enough, or to use your own words, it has the (death) metal riffs but the songwriting doesn't focus on that influence and more on the punkier aspect/base? I think I understand what you mean, and it comes in line with what I thought was the way MA viewed these things.

It's curious because the thing that made me ask was that I was listening to the Japanese band Realized and thinking to myself how it was sounding more like grindcore than death/grind. And then what you said hit me, that so many bands are listed as "death/grind" on the site, almost seemingly arbitrarily. But then again I guess that going around and changing "death/grind" to "grind/death" or just "grind" might be a bit of unnecessary nitpicking when there are more pressing genre changes to be made, right?

Thanks for the very informative reply mate!

Why is Solution .45 being labelled as "Melodic Groove Metal/Rock"? I saw a mod post Lethean Tears as a response as to why S45 are rock, but it's just a ballad on the album. We don't go about labeling Rhapsody of Fire as "Symphonic Power Metal/Rock" because they put ballads on their albums. Also, Lethean Tears is the only song of its kind on the album. Every other song uses both cleans and harsh vocals. A single song does not define a band, especially when you have 11 other tracks that point to S45 being a melodic death metal band. Everyone lists them as melodic death metal, and rightly so. Those aren't grooves in the music; they're melodies. All it takes is a listen to any of their songs, besides Lethean Tears, to see why they're melodeath.

Many people seem to think that this categorization of "melodic groove metal" is a way to distance bands like S45 and Scar Symmetry, the bands with the modern Gothenburg sound, away from what the mods prefer to call melodeath, whatever that may be. Both a friend and I submitted reports yesterday on Scar Symmetry being in the wrong genre, and both of our reports were closed without any further inquiry or response. I'd appreciate some transparency in the issue, as I know it's something that more than just the two of us have noticed and taken issue with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmsswnnqj3c

How can that be "melodic groove metal" in any way?

Marduk's first album Dark Endless is death metal, or, at the very least, black/death (or blackened death metal, if you prefer). Their tag should reflect this.

The album:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8DGmpwNrYU

Tell me it doesn't sound like early Sunlight Studios-era (even though it wasn't recorded there) Swedish death metal with black metal elements (especially the vocals).

What do you want us to say? It has been discussed before, and remember that melodeath is still rooted in death metal. That shouldn't be too hard to comprehend, and while bands like Scar Symmetry and especially Solution .45 are indeed very melodic, the melodic slant comes from the keyboards and vocals more than the riffs, which just sort of churn and groove away in the background. Melodic groove metal...doesn't seem that hard to understand.

Meh. If they had more than one album out of 12, maybe. Otherwise, not that relevant. I'd even be in favour of removing the DM tag from Darkthrone's genre, it's only one album too.

Without wanting to sound pretentious in my statement, but I think the "death metal (early)" tag in Darkthrone is still valid, even if it's just that one album. More so than Marduk, which sound like a lamer Necrophobic on that debut album. Soulside Journey however is pure death metal, and considering the Goatlord sessions and all the history behind the evolution of the band, namely the clear demarcating against Sweden and its sound in favour of what would become the Second Wave sound, is very much valid. Marduk, yeah, one album sounding like a midway point between death and black and no more impact further than that... I'd actually agree that the "death metal (early)" tag would be pushing it. Darkthrone however, well I've made my point about that one already.

Unrelated to the purpose of this thread, but I'd like to comment on how I love early 90s death metal with black metal influences/overtones/textures; salient ones, not albums with ambiguous BM elements such as Dawn of Possession, Blessed Are the Sick, and Rites of the Black Mass (the debut release of the shitty, third-rate, and pitifully gimmicky Deicide knock-off band Acheron). Northern European bands seemed to have a penchant and flair for it (primarily the Swedish), especially during that transitional period of early 90s death metal when bands started experimenting with black metal, thus creating some awesome "crossover" albums (ie. A Blaze in the Northern Sky, The Nocturnal Silence, etc.). Too bad it wasn't more widespread (or, at least, there weren't many full-lengths that reflected this pluralistic style).

I disagree with the Melodic Groove Metal categorization, but I'm willing to deal with it. What I can't understand is the inclusion of Rock in the genre. Whenever this gets brought up, someone always posts a link to "Lethean Tears" and says "HA, it's slow so it must be rock". You've got 9 tracks that are undeniable metal tracks, and you've got one ballad. I don't see how that makes a band a rock band.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Arc ... iscography
http://arcanedimension.bandcamp.com/

The genre should defintely be changed ... the latest release has nothing to do with metal at all ...

http://thedepthspa.bandcamp.com/
Band is listed as Blackened Death Metal/Deathcore. Not really sure why its Deathcore, suggestion to change it to Blackened Death Metal/Thrash Metal

Kalmah is entered as Melodic Death Metal, but for their early albums (particularly the first two), that is entirely inaccurate. To me, it sounds more like Melodic Blackened Death/Thrash Metal (or Melodic Black/Death/Thrash Metal, whichever you prefer), as the guitars are clearly thrash-oriented and the vocals are black metal growls. There's also the occasional tremolo accompanied by blastbeating that suggests further black influence.

For Kalmah I'd personally probably just use "Melodic Death/Power Metal" since that's the de facto term we use for Bodom soundalikes, and they definitely started off being a very Bodomish band, but I don't think their change in style was significant enough to use the earlier and later tags (the only really big change was the vocals). That's my input but I won't change it until at least one other mod chimes in, since Kalmah is a pretty popular band and all.

None of these influences are really prevalent enough to warrant the (early) - (later) genre dissection. Mainly because, as BH stated, their style hasn't deviated very far from where it began.

And citing the vocals isn't really enough either, as Kokko has gone back and forth with his style over the years. The Black Waltz is the only album wherein he uses death growls exclusively. The albums after that were sort of a mix of both that and his raspier shrieking.

I hate to bring this up again, I just filled in a report.

Sepultura's genre

Nu metal: The only album of theirs that's predominantly nu-metal is Roots. And that's merely 1 album out of 13 (!!), Against is nu metal-tinged groove metal with hardcore influences, Nation had all that except the nu-metal tinge that was kept to a minimum, and after that we never saw nu metal again.

Groove metal: Chaos A.D is Groove/Thrash/Hardcore. And every album since then had groove, so this is logically.

Hardcore: Every album since Chaos A.D until A-Lex (Arguably Kairos) has hardcore influences, this is undeniable and one could go so far to saying Roorback and Dante XXI are more hardcore than anything else, hardcore has been an influence to their music, much or not, for as much as 16-18 years, covers up 7 albums, bit too much to NOT have it in their genres.

Thrash Metal: Obvious, present on every album except Roots to an extent.

This is why I think their genre list should be Death/Thrash Metal (early), Groove/Thrash/Hardcore (later)

Sorry for bringing this up again, but even going for influence, nu-metal has only been big on 2 (arguably 3) of their albums, and out of 13 albums that's not much. I could understand if it were for influence-purposes, and if so i'm fine with it, but I felt it's not quite right.

Sepultura's genre is not changing. The mods had a long discussion about it a while back and the genre combined with the description is the way it stays.

Alright, fine with that.

ps. while I'm at it, what about Kreator? Sure, biggest portion of their material is thrash, but they fizzled around with influences surely in the 90's.

Could be: Thrash Metal (1984-1992, 2001-) Groove/Thrash with Industrial/Hardcore influences (1992-2001)

Both industrial or hardcore could be single as well, whatever. Renewal had groove and hardcore added, with some quasi-industrial elements, Cause For Conflict is thrash with hardcore elements. Outcast has some hardcore influences but this has weird gothic/industrial elements added, same goes for Endorama but that album doesn't have hardcore influences, but it does have those weird gothic/industrial influences, after that they went back to thrash again, sure.

But ehh, no, apart from Cause For Conflict to an extent, thrash metal wasn't their main genre for as much as 9 years in their 30 years of existence, that's nearly 1/3rd.

This, or perhaps a detailed explanation in the description?

Let's not needlessly complicate things.

Can someone please remove the "Rock" portion of Solution .45's listing? I'll just rewrite my reasoning below:

"What I can't understand is the inclusion of Rock in the genre. Whenever this gets brought up, someone always posts a link to "Lethean Tears" and says "HA, it's slow so it must be rock". You've got 9 tracks that are undeniable metal tracks, and you've got one ballad. I don't see how that makes a band a rock band."

Here are some songs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXJxtp8inWg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e309pMLt_w0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dka_Es5pLfA

There's no rock in there whatsoever.