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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 5085
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:03 pm 
 

Thanks for clearing that up mate! ;)
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MetalCuresHeadaches
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
Posts: 611
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:41 pm 
 

Azmodes wrote:
There is a to-do list in the internal forum with questionable genres. I have added the "epic metal" search results to it.


Alright. Did the "extreme metal" one get added as well? There's surely a better description for that artist.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:19 am 
 

Yes, it was one of the first get a spot, although in some unclassifiable instances it might be an acceptable term. Still a lot to check, Napero and I have been chewing mainly on "atmospheric metal", "technical metal" (now gone) and most importantly "melodic metal" (has been reduced from around 160 to 33 since).
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MutantClannfear
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 2299
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:28 am 
 

Azmodes wrote:
Yes, it was one of the first get a spot, although in some unclassifiable instances it might be an acceptable term. Still a lot to check, Napero and I have been chewing mainly on "atmospheric metal", "technical metal" (now gone) and most importantly "melodic metal" (has been reduced from around 160 to 33 since).

Sorry I'm late to this, but the thought just now occurred to me: is "post-thrash" on this list as well? I'd like to see that one get nuked, since it looks ridiculous and it's only ever used to describe groove metal and/or Mechuggahshuggah.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:58 am 
 

Yes it is.
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dantes
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:09 pm
Posts: 44
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:23 pm 
 

Just to know, in which instances do you prefer "with black metal influences" (12 instances on MA) to "Blackened something"? Just wonderin´.

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herra_af_lik
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:43 pm
Posts: 46
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:16 pm 
 

I'm just wondering if these guys are bit too grunge for the site? http://ayahuasca.bandcamp.com/

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doomster999
Keeper of the Dreary Realm

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:58 am
Posts: 759
Location: India
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:47 am 
 

Is 'grunge' still considered a subgenre? I think of it as more of a scene really. Anyway, that aside I'd like to mention that since Alice in Chains' sound has become more and more doom metal oriented, isn't it wise to list them as Heavy metal/grunge with doom metal leanings like Danzig is listed as heavy metal with doom metal/rock influences or High on Fire is listed as stoner/doom with thrash influences? I have seen Martin Popoff labelling their self-titled/tripod album and their latest material as "smeary doom metal". I think Cantrell's solo should also be listed as alt metal/rock/grunge with doom leanings. Any thoughts?
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Charlo
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:05 am
Posts: 146
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:06 pm 
 

Toccata Magna is the wrong genre. It should be power/folk metal, not heavy metal. There was a report on this issue two years ago, but the reporter didn't provide a source, so the report was closed without the genre being corrected.

Check out the track Incognite Soul for proof.

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AcidWorm
Veteran

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:37 pm
Posts: 2789
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:01 am 
 

Wouldn't it make more sense to label this "Technical Death Metal" instead of "Technical Death Metal/Death Metal"?
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Electrocution/3417
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androdion
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Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:47 pm 
 

AcidWorm wrote:
Wouldn't it make more sense to label this "Technical Death Metal" instead of "Technical Death Metal/Death Metal"?
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Electrocution/3417

I think it would make even more sense to label it "Technical Death/Thrash Metal", but that's just me. ;)
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Jophelerx
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:25 pm 
 

Not sure if this has been discussed before, but curious as to why MaelstroM are labeled "thrash/death". The thrash is clearly there but I hear very minimal death metal influences, it seems more like neoclassical speed/thrash. As hells_unicorn says in his review, it seems that there are some hints here and there of other subgenres including thrash, and it might be hard to classify, but it sound primarily like speed/thrash to me. Hear for yourselves.
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dystopia4
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Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:47 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:57 am 
 

Dead Neon is listed as sludge metal/blackened crust punk. While the sludge and crust tags are correct, these guys don't really have much to do with black metal. Sure, they draw influence from some of the bands that influenced the spawning of black metal, but there is no straight up black metal in their sound whatsoever:
http://deadneon.bandcamp.com/album/dead-neon
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Helvede
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:28 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:52 am 
 

Charlo wrote:
Toccata Magna is the wrong genre. It should be power/folk metal, not heavy metal. There was a report on this issue two years ago, but the reporter didn't provide a source, so the report was closed without the genre being corrected.

Check out the track Incognite Soul for proof.


That's a fair adjustement. Done.

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MeavyHetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:54 pm
Posts: 173
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:40 pm 
 

I think Augury should be referred to as "Progressive/Technical Death Metal". The tech-death aspect of their sound is clear as day, especially on Fragmentary Evidence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEZQM1dtPSY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DPW9ED1WBs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i4gphLNKIc

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Charlo
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:05 am
Posts: 146
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:27 pm 
 

Helvede wrote:
Charlo wrote:
Toccata Magna is the wrong genre. It should be power/folk metal, not heavy metal. There was a report on this issue two years ago, but the reporter didn't provide a source, so the report was closed without the genre being corrected.

Check out the track Incognite Soul for proof.


That's a fair adjustement. Done.


Thanks man!

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TheUnhinged
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:28 pm
Posts: 114
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:05 pm 
 

I would like to discuss Darzamat. It says that their recent work is simply Gothic Metal, but I disagree. I would actually say their more recent albums really aren't any different from their early work (which is listed as Symphonic Black Metal).

(early):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLDrFU3nB3c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRkQNjB_fSI

(later):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REfX2z98eGw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8xVEvQYNY0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX9Gfp57A7o

On the other hand, I do understand that Oniriad is mainly a (really shitty) Gothic Metal album, which doesn't really sound much like any of their other albums.

Personally, I think the most accurate genre would be "Symphonic Black/Gothic Metal, Gothic Metal/Rock (2002)"

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NoKnownName
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:39 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:50 pm 
 

I think the The Black Locust Project should be changed from progressive metal to gothic metal. There are very few, if any, elements of prog metal in their music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPe-bW7Ajcc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydWTucnhHI0
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Cthulhu_Fhtagn
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:09 pm 
 

Rising Moon http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Rising_Moon/6781 is currently labeled as death metal, but sounds an awful lot like melodic death metal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95abnMbOBg8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMa29NDaw4s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk-A_kJ-oEE
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Goatfangs
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:02 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:32 am 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Scar_Symmetry/32861

Scar Symmetry has the wrong genre. They are melodic death metal.

At least, they definitely were for Symmetric in Design. That album has all the elements of Swedish melodeath. Influences seem to be old Soilwork and At The Gates.

I get that the trend lately has been to slap "melodic groove metal" onto bands that have a modern melodeath sound these days but for Scar Symmetry that is hardly accurate.
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Diamhea
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Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:46 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:33 am 
 

They were changed to that right after that recent thread highlighting their upcoming album(s) was started. I do agree, though.
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:47 pm 
 

Where is there even a trace of death metal in Scar Symmetry?

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Nebster173
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 8:22 am
Posts: 301
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:02 pm 
 

Or Overthrow?
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Overthrow/16732

Within Suffering is wholly thrash. There isn't a single death metal part in the whole album. Not a single one. Nothing's death metal about it.

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Goatfangs
Wicker Mantis

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:02 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:20 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
Where is there even a trace of death metal in Scar Symmetry?


Spoiler: show


I could've been a smart ass and listed all of their songs, lol.

The riffs Scar Symmetry uses is in the same vein as middle to late era Gothenberg melodic death metal.
I hear where the groove metal idea is coming from. It's more apparent in some songs than others, but the death metal is still there. It's just melodicized. At times it sounds closer to just really heavy power metal instead.

I've always seen melodic death metal as very distinct from death metal. In many bands the death metal is still there, but in others it's hardly there at all, even on their heaviest songs. It resembles heavy power metal or thrash metal. But the two flavors still share a very similar root sound. A lot of these bands take influence from Iron Maiden. Finnish bands tend to borrow from power metal or doom metal. Gothenberg bands have a lot of modern, groove and alternative influences. Dark Tranquillity is no exception.

I submitted a report, but I'm also mentioning them here since they are very similar to Scar Symmetry. Solution .45 also has a wrong genre tag. Even more wrong than Scar Symmetry. They are also melodic death metal. I don't get where the alternative rock is coming from. Listening to For Aeons Past I'm actually hearing less groove metal and more death metal than in Scar Symmetry.

I think the best thing for both bands is a tag of "Melodic Death/Groove Metal".

Other sites call these bands "Modern melodic death metal", which also includes later Soilwork, In Flames, etc., and other bands that have so much metalcore in them they aren't even accepted into MA. But I know the "Modern" tag is being phased out here, only 30 bands have it.
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Zodijackyl
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Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:44 pm 
 

Goatfangs wrote:
I submitted a report, but I'm also mentioning them here since they are very similar to Scar Symmetry. Solution .45 also has a wrong genre tag. Even more wrong than Scar Symmetry. They are also melodic death metal. I don't get where the alternative rock is coming from.


Melodic death metal, right? :roll:


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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:49 pm 
 

^ This song sounds like Staind took a time machine back to 1987 and wrote a ballad to go on soft rock radio between Bryan Adams and Michael Bolton hits for moms to listen to while they mop the kitchen. "Alternative rock" is generous as hell.
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Diamhea
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:21 pm 
 

Ha! Yeah...I will defend Scar Symmetry as melodic death to a point but Solution .45? There goes the credibility of our entire argument out the window. Count me out now Goatfangs, you're on your own.
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OpsiusCato
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Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:46 pm 
 

Isn't Goatfangs the same user that said that the new Protest the Hero album was "Progressive Power Metal"?
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TheGrimWombat
Nelson Wannabe

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:23 am 
 

OpsiusCato wrote:
Isn't Goatfangs the same user that said that the new Protest the Hero album was "Progressive Power Metal"?


Wait...it's not? Hahaha
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VariedTastes
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:24 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:24 pm 
 

Is there a reason "black metal" is missing from Agalloch's page?
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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:34 pm 
 

VariedTastes wrote:
Is there a reason "black metal" is missing from Agalloch's page?

Yes, because they're not black metal. They had the "dark metal" tag before and when we decided to remove that tag from most pages, the band used this tag "Atmospheric Folk/Doom/Black Metal, Post-Rock/Metal" before the black tag got removed by Morrigan. Let's be honest, this is a good decision even though their last 2 releases (both Marrow and Faustian Echoes) are more bm influenced, it's still not the main identity (and only) identity of the band. I'm not quite comfortable with the doom tag myself but they're pretty damn hard to classify!
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VariedTastes
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:24 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:03 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:
VariedTastes wrote:
Is there a reason "black metal" is missing from Agalloch's page?

Yes, because they're not black metal. They had the "dark metal" tag before and when we decided to remove that tag from most pages, the band used this tag "Atmospheric Folk/Doom/Black Metal, Post-Rock/Metal" before the black tag got removed by Morrigan. Let's be honest, this is a good decision even though their last 2 releases (both Marrow and Faustian Echoes) are more bm influenced, it's still not the main identity (and only) identity of the band. I'm not quite comfortable with the doom tag myself but they're pretty damn hard to classify!


Well, yes, they aren't purely a black metal band, but they've always had a touch of it influencing their music. If Marrow of the Spirit and Faustian Echoes hadn't been released I think that the current label would be fine. It's just that since they have been released and they do have such a large amount of black metal incorporated into their latest releases, I think that the label doesn't give a very accurate description of the band's later work. Take http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiIVluxcXNs for example. I know that I wouldn't expect something like this given the current labeling system. I don't care too much since I'm already familiar with Agalloch and all, but for someone coming across them through the similar artists page or something it might give them the wrong impression.

Anyways, my two cents and all.
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Goatfangs
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:14 am 
 

Solution .45 sounds like a softer version of Unmoored to me, to be honest. Less progressive, more melodic, but I still hear melodic death metal instead of groove metal. Wouldn't melodic death/groove metal work for them and Scar Symmetry? Someone searching for melodic death bands would still see their names, since both are considered melodic death metal by all other sites, while someone searching for melodic groove bands for some reason would also find them.

It certainly wasn't Lethean Tears that I was listening to when I made the assertion that they were melodic death metal, though. Into Shadow, Spirit Side Dreaming, Wirethrone, For Aeons Past (among others) all sound like (modern) melodic death metal to me. So, one song is soft enough to be called alternative rock?

It would be a lot of work to try and relabel the hundreds of other bands that sport a similar modern/clean sound of melodic death metal. To "melodic groove metal"?
I know a bunch off the top of my head. Disarmonia Mundi, Blood Stain Child, Disillusion, Mercenary, Emergency Gate, James LaBrie, Cypecore, Eventide, Universum, Threat Signal, Raintime, Seducer's Embrace just to name a few.

If Engel were on here (and I'm not arguing for their inclusion - dead horse) they would be more fitting of the tag "melodic groove metal".
Sonic Syndicate - I remember when I first listened to Eden Fire. The reviewer was calling them "melodic death metal" or something. I heard none of that, just metalcore.
Soilwork and In Flames both took their sound and dramatically simplified it and used more grooves. Soilwork somewhat bounded back though. The melodic groove metal tag fits them even better than the outdated "modern rock" tag.
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BastardHead
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:07 pm 
 

I know there's a stigma to agreeing with anything Goatfangs says when it comes to bands/genres since he has such a reputation for his crusades (Soulfly, Kittie) and confusing classifications (Protest the Hero), but I can't help but agree with him here. Melodeath has, for a long time now, been wholly separate from traditional death metal, so looking at Scar Symmetry and asking where the death metal is just seems really thick/antiquated since that's what melodeath has sounded like for about fifteen frickin' years now. Zodi of all people should know better than that. I mean, "melodic groove metal" can make sense if you sit there and write a big essay explaining why the current definition of melodeath is wrong and we need to change it across the board, but that's just kind of a Goatfangsy thing to do (sorry to keep knocking you, <3 4eva). Everybody knows the In Flames style of melodeath and they have known it since Clayman at the very, very latest. Keeping it at "Melodic Death Metal" would make the most sense to me, or "Melodic Death/Groove Metal" if you're absolutely insistent on changing it, but I feel like that leaves big implications on how we should label a very large scene, since (apart from the clean vocal segments) Scar Symmetry really isn't all that different from the host of bands that Goatfangs mentioned.

I know I just recently ranted on how terms change and metal fans shouldn't be so damn stubborn about it, but this is one I just don't really agree with.
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Azmodes
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:44 am 
 

I have to agree with BH. I'm fine with either "Melodic Death/Groove Metal" or "Melodic Death Metal". I suppose it helps to look at it as melodeath, as opposed to death metal that is melodic.
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NorseGangsta
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:22 am 
 

Could Enslaved (http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Enslaved/104) have their genre edited to "Black Metal (early), Progressive Black/Viking Metal (later)"? The latter is their current genre tag, they didn't start including full-on progressive elements until nearly a decade after their formation anyways.

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Subrick
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Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:32 pm 
 

I'm requesting that my band Sorrowseed's genre changed to "Gothic Doom/Black Metal (early), Melodic Death/Black Metal (later)". I feel this is a more fitting genre tag than the current tag of "Gothic/Black/Death Metal" because most of the gothic and doom elements that were present on our first album The Extinction Prophecies aren't present on our new album Nemesis Engine, plus the guitar work on Nemesis Engine is more riff based and in line with a tag of "melodic death/black metal".

First album songs:
https://officialsorrowseed.bandcamp.com ... he-furnace
https://officialsorrowseed.bandcamp.com ... mine-storm
https://officialsorrowseed.bandcamp.com ... llows-edge
https://officialsorrowseed.bandcamp.com ... tch-hunger
https://officialsorrowseed.bandcamp.com ... den-plague
https://officialsorrowseed.bandcamp.com ... al-harvest

Second album songs:
https://officialsorrowseed.bandcamp.com ... lich-queen
https://officialsorrowseed.bandcamp.com ... sis-engine
https://officialsorrowseed.bandcamp.com ... erophant-2
https://officialsorrowseed.bandcamp.com ... e-colossus
https://officialsorrowseed.bandcamp.com ... ery-ghosts
https://officialsorrowseed.bandcamp.com ... olis-march

And while I'm here, just so I don't have to make another report about it, can the lyrical themes be changed too from just "Armageddon" to "Armageddon, Nature, Elder Gods (early), Necromancy, War, Military (later)"? Once again this is a case of stuff changing between albums, as the first album was about the former subjects and the second album about the latter subjects.
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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:18 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
I'm requesting that my band Sorrowseed's genre changed to "Gothic Doom/Black Metal (early), Melodic Death/Black Metal (later)". I feel this is a more fitting genre tag than the current tag of "Gothic/Black/Death Metal" because most of the gothic and doom elements that were present on our first album The Extinction Prophecies aren't present on our new album Nemesis Engine, plus the guitar work on Nemesis Engine is more riff based and in line with a tag of "melodic death/black metal".


The genre tag is fine, it encompasses it well without overcomplicating it. The gothic elements are more prominent on the first one but the second one isn't melodic death/black metal, it's more like keyboardy black/gothic. The guitar riffing, vocals, and structure of the melodies is gothic/black IMO, the guitar work isn't melodic like melodic death/black metal (i.e. Unanimated's Ancient God of Evil").

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Helvede
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:28 pm
Posts: 1427
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:04 pm 
 

NorseGangsta wrote:
Could Enslaved (http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Enslaved/104) have their genre edited to "Black Metal (early), Progressive Black/Viking Metal (later)"? The latter is their current genre tag, they didn't start including full-on progressive elements until nearly a decade after their formation anyways.


Not entirely true. Their step into progressive metal/rock already started on at least Eld from 1997.

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oneyoudontknow
Cum insantientibus furere necesse est.

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 6:25 pm
Posts: 5344
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:58 pm 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Tre ... 3540269024

Black metal is misleading. Rather Ambient / Black Metal / Electronics.
I have the album and I will upload it, but not post the link openly.

###############################################

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Ger ... iscography

Pagan Black Metal (early), Treehugger lalala also known as Neofolk (later)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM0daib7q_U
The album is available at youtube.
_________________

I write for these magazines:
http://swirlsofnoise.com/
http://againstmagazine.com/

Analysis of band names:
http://www.metal-archives.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=103987

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