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Doomsday
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2003 12:30 pm
Posts: 714
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:50 pm 
 

I've listened to the entire Sepulchral Voices compilation and heavy/thrash is far more accurate than power/thrash.
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MetalizeR888
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:45 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Peru
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:09 pm 
 

Doomsday wrote:
I've listened to the entire Sepulchral Voices compilation and heavy/thrash is far more accurate than power/thrash.


It means youre the owner of the truth?
If you dont want to put Power at least put Speed Thrash or simple as Thrash Metal (like warpath from chile who is Power Thrash too)
Thanks.

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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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Location: Québec
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:12 pm 
 

Doomsday, I think I found a cool custom title for you, mate :)
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Doomsday
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2003 12:30 pm
Posts: 714
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:15 pm 
 

It's a terrible custom title tbh... But maybe that's the whole point of having one?
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MetalizeR888
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:45 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Peru
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:53 am 
 

Ok, What is the verdict?

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 5563
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:03 am 
 

You made a report about this a few days ago with only an old flyer included as "proof". I listened to their songs on Myspace then and came to the same conclusion as Doomsday did. No power metal that I could hear.

Also, Doomsday looks weird with a custom title...
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MetalizeR888
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:45 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Peru
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:26 am 
 

Azmodes wrote:
You made a report about this a few days ago with only an old flyer included as "proof". I listened to their songs on Myspace then and came to the same conclusion as Doomsday did. No power metal that I could hear.

Also, Doomsday looks weird with a custom title...


I don't listen the "heavy" part too (We are talking of 80s Power Metal, not the melodic genre of helloween/stratovarios right?). Why you dont put Speed/Thrash Metal or simple as Thrash Metal like I said before?

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kimiwind
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:45 am
Posts: 482
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:17 am 
 

Who labeled these fellows with Death Metal? Minimal Death Metal influence in there. They play Symphonic Black Metal.
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Deathsaint/7596#

Thanks.
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Helvede
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:28 pm
Posts: 1412
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:26 am 
 

kimiwind wrote:
Who labeled these fellows with Death Metal? Minimal Death Metal influence in there. They play Symphonic Black Metal.
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Deathsaint/7596#

Thanks.


As you might have noticed, the band was accepted 10 years ago, based on the 2001 demo. The band probably played Death Metal back then. Do you have any samples of their 2010 material?

EDIT: Just found their whole 2010 EP for streaming at the label's site. How you hear any Symphonic Black Metal in this is beyond me. This is Melodic Death Metal bordering Metalcore.

http://www.klicktrack.com/fono/releases ... aykalaka/2

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FLIPPITYFLOOP
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:09 pm
Posts: 258
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:05 pm 
 

Only saw this thread after posting the report. Sorry in advance!

The Black Dahlia Murder:
Obviously debatable, but I'm curious is it really necessary to still have the metalcore tag on them? I understand they had it on their first 3 albums for sure, but it seems that since Deflorate they've shed themselves of that label (at least in my opinion) and created a good solid tech death album. Plus when you hear the experimentation in Ritual and now this new song "Into The Everblack" I just find it really hard to give them that title now.

Maybe you could have something saying like "Melodic Death Metal/Metalcore (Early) Melodic/Technical Death Metal (Now)?"
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VRR wrote:
I was thinking mainly about the one Turn of the wheel which is about the seasons on whatever album it was. I doubt it is any more profound in Ukrainian, seeing as the meaning is something like "Summer is hot/Winter is not/Spring-a-ding-a-ling/Autumn I forgot."

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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:11 pm 
 

Nah, it's fine like that and they're not even technical death. We prefer not having overlong genres.
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FLIPPITYFLOOP
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:09 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:59 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:
Nah, it's fine like that and they're not even technical death. We prefer not having overlong genres.


Fair enough. I can still understand why they would get the -core suffix
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VRR wrote:
I was thinking mainly about the one Turn of the wheel which is about the seasons on whatever album it was. I doubt it is any more profound in Ukrainian, seeing as the meaning is something like "Summer is hot/Winter is not/Spring-a-ding-a-ling/Autumn I forgot."

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kimiwind
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:45 am
Posts: 482
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:33 am 
 

Helvede wrote:
kimiwind wrote:
Who labeled these fellows with Death Metal? Minimal Death Metal influence in there. They play Symphonic Black Metal.
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Deathsaint/7596#

Thanks.


As you might have noticed, the band was accepted 10 years ago, based on the 2001 demo. The band probably played Death Metal back then. Do you have any samples of their 2010 material?

EDIT: Just found their whole 2010 EP for streaming at the label's site. How you hear any Symphonic Black Metal in this is beyond me. This is Melodic Death Metal bordering Metalcore.

http://www.klicktrack.com/fono/releases ... aykalaka/2


Helvede, it's actually their earlier demo. I'm talking about their earliest demo and not the EP. And in fact, I never listened to their latest release, I have no idea what they played later. But indeed, their 2001 demo is symphonic black with some death influences. Did you hear the demo? I think I have mp3 somewhere but I'm just too busy to up them here.
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BastardHead
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
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Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:55 am 
 

FLIPPITYFLOOP wrote:
Metantoine wrote:
Nah, it's fine like that and they're not even technical death. We prefer not having overlong genres.


Fair enough. I can still understand why they would get the -core suffix


I'm just going to quote myself from the thread about the new album:

BastardHead wrote:
Necroticism174 wrote:
[Calling TBDM metalcore] matters because it's flat out willful wrongness.


It's basically this. I'm not a metalcore detractor, I listen to plenty of outright whiny metalcore, so the term doesn't leave a bad taste in my mouth, but the fact is that it was never a part of TBDM's sound. They had that image, but their music has always been straight up melodic death metal. If you'd never saw what the band or their merch looked like, you'd never use that tag to describe them.

We have a band that has never used clean vocals or lyrical themes about anything other than horror and gore being labeled as metalcore, a band that has never used pig squeals or inhales as deathcore, and a band that has never even used breakdowns being labeled as both. Seriously, I just want one good explanation as to how in the unholy fuck they can and should be considered -core.


I stand by the last sentence, somebody please point out how on Earth they've earned that suffix through their music and if it makes sense I promise I'll shut up about it. I have no idea why the scene kids latched on to them, but they're a complete aberration when it comes to scene kids' tastes. I firmly believe that if it wasn't for their image and merch and tourmates early on, they wouldn't have the fanbase they do, and without those four things they'd never be labeled as such. If they were a bunch of dudes with beards and long hair, I don't think this pointless debate would have ever started.

For real, where is the metalcore in songs like this?


Or hell, even from their first album:


If that sounds like As I Lay Dying to you, it's because it sounds like AILD without the breakdowns or clean vocals, AKA the melodeath parts of AILD, not the -core parts. Ergo: Melodeath
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FLIPPITYFLOOP
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:09 pm
Posts: 258
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:16 pm 
 

BastardHead wrote:
I stand by the last sentence, somebody please point out how on Earth they've earned that suffix through their music and if it makes sense I promise I'll shut up about it. I have no idea why the scene kids latched on to them, but they're a complete aberration when it comes to scene kids' tastes. I firmly believe that if it wasn't for their image and merch and tourmates early on, they wouldn't have the fanbase they do, and without those four things they'd never be labeled as such. If they were a bunch of dudes with beards and long hair, I don't think this pointless debate would have ever started.

For real, where is the metalcore in songs like this?


Or hell, even from their first album:


If that sounds like As I Lay Dying to you, it's because it sounds like AILD without the breakdowns or clean vocals, AKA the melodeath parts of AILD, not the -core parts. Ergo: Melodeath


I can hear the elements that give them the core influenced sound, but I'm having trouble putting words to it. I'll leave it to a moderator to explain.
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VRR wrote:
I was thinking mainly about the one Turn of the wheel which is about the seasons on whatever album it was. I doubt it is any more profound in Ukrainian, seeing as the meaning is something like "Summer is hot/Winter is not/Spring-a-ding-a-ling/Autumn I forgot."

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Viral
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:04 am
Posts: 1891
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:49 pm 
 

Mystifier (http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Mystifier/602)'s tag should be changed to black/death metal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiV-gOHKMxo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeMUzvP5nCs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuCa0rZ-lvg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lRt3yiQ1oQ
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That's not right. That's not even wrong. It's so fundamentally inaccurate that I think it may well be incorrectable.

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:00 pm 
 

It came to my attention that a couple of Portuguese bands are a bit mislabelled on MA in terms of genre tagging. First is Sacred Sin, which is tagged as "death/black". Even though their last couple of albums showed a more black-oriented direction (think Acheron with keyboards and female chants) their first three albums are nowhere near black metal. I've posted several songs of those three on the "nobodies thread" on the General Discussion board, check them out please. Their nineties albums are pretty much Morbid Angel/Nocturnus worship with a ritualistic, sometimes borderline on gothic, atmosphere. Their later two albums are indeed more blackened and as such I think a separation should be made, something like "Death Metal (1991-1999), Death/Black Metal (2001-present). Although bear in mind I haven't listened to their 2009 EP so I can't vouch for what's on that one.

The other one is Masque Of Innocence. Granted I'm not familiar with their demo but the genre tag on the "early" bit should be right since they apparently played an hybrid of those genres back then. However how someone can describe their album as "black/death" is beyond me. It's straight up modern death metal. Three songs available from it on the ReverbNation page.
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todesengel_hell
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:21 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:14 am 
 

Has anybody else listened to the new Dawn of Ashes album or 2012 split EP? Sounds like they've moved back into the Industrial realm. Most of the new album and the EP sound like slow-paced Industrial with guitars. At its heaviest points, it reminds me of early Manson. I think their genre should be changed to reflect that the only metal releases they had were the "Harvest the Impaled" single and the "Genocide Chapters" album. It should also be noted that their new material clearly differs from their earlier dance inspired Industrial in that it is more influenced by rock and metal. So I'm suggesting something like this:

Industrial/EBM (2001-2007), Melodic Death/Black Metal (2008-2011), Electronic/Industrial Rock (2012-present)

Anathema full-length (2013):
http://dfiles.eu/files/3tgibq1lu
http://uploaded.net/file/9mhze709

a couple clips of DoA's material from Hollywood Made in Gehenna split EP (2012):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlbVwR9yPnU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=773JKu7pOzs

earlier dance-inspired material just for reference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jUCSPLgbFA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7_x5PaKOc8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7WKCOzLrsA

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todesengel_hell
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:21 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 9:38 am 
 

Compression
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Compression/84863

Band formed in 1993 listed as "Deathcore". The band seems to be more sludge/doom-influenced to me than anything. I feel like there should be another descriptor in there too, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Possibly "Avant-Garde Sludge/Doom Metal".

The band's myspace:
http://www.myspace.com/compressionland
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todesengel_hell
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:21 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:07 pm 
 

^Just wondering if any mods have had a chance to look at this, or if it just got buried under the other, more well-travelled threads.

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Cloud0129
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:04 pm
Posts: 167
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:54 pm 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Hid ... ity/113436

Hideous Divinity was listed as an old-school/standard death metal band when I hear more brutal/tech death than old-school.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOrY5JcI6mo

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WaywardSon
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:48 am
Posts: 903
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:41 am 
 

Soilwork is now "metalcore/melodic groove metal"? I hardly listen to the band so it doesn't mean much to me, but it seems like a strange tag.
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OpsiusCato
Mexican Metal Inquisition

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am
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Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:56 pm 
 

Then you should listen to them. It fits perfectly fine their current sound.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:45 pm 
 

To elaborate, we want to get rid of the "modern metal" tag since it's meaningless at worst and vague at best. This seemed like a preferable, accurate alternative.
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OpsiusCato
Mexican Metal Inquisition

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am
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Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:47 pm 
 

Yeah, that too. I forgot to mention the problem was the "Modern" thingie. Thanks!
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SadisticGratification
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:00 pm
Posts: 406
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 6:14 pm 
 

I looked through the Rotting Christ profile and I see the genre completely ignores the grindcore early days and has the ultimately vague tag of Extreme Metal there, what the fuck is that? such a blanket term. I checked the reports before suggesting changes and it seems this has been suggested a few times only to be closed. In my personal opinion it should be

black metal/grindcore (early)
black metal(mid)
melodic black metal(later)

maybe a bit fleshed out in certain areas but I think that pretty much covers it, their early demos are so obviously grind it's not funny. And the first two albums are just black metal and after that it goes towards a more gothic/melodic black metal career. I love these guys and have listened to all their stuff.

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MutantClannfear
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 2100
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 7:42 pm 
 

Azmodes wrote:
To elaborate, we want to get rid of the "modern metal" tag since it's meaningless at worst and vague at best.

Is Metallica being discussed in this regard? Their "Modern Rock/Metal" tag always bugged me.

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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 4701
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:54 pm 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
Azmodes wrote:
To elaborate, we want to get rid of the "modern metal" tag since it's meaningless at worst and vague at best.

Is Metallica being discussed in this regard? Their "Modern Rock/Metal" tag always bugged me.


Yeah, it's a bit tough to get it concise and accurate and I want to get the opinion of a few more moderators before changing it.

I'm slowly working to remove ambiguous genre tags, but this involves extensive listening to bands that are alternative/extreme/modern metal as well as mallcore.

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Metantoine
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Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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Location: Québec
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 10:00 pm 
 

Obscurum proposed a genre to me on Facebook: Thrash Metal (early), Hard Rock/Heavy Metal (later). That's fine for me.
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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 10:47 pm 
 

Derigin and I discussed it and were considering Hard Rock/Heavy/Thrash Metal (later). You'd know this if you weren't currently using an iPad in a ziploc bag while floating in an inner tube in the middle of the lake in the woods of Quebec, or wherever you are now! :P

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Obscurum
Emperor of the Shadows

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:23 am
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 10:56 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
Derigin and I discussed it and were considering Hard Rock/Heavy/Thrash Metal (later). You'd know this if you weren't currently using an iPad in a ziploc bag while floating in an inner tube in the middle of the lake in the woods of Quebec, or wherever you are now! :P

Well, they did get a bit thrasier again in recent years.
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Metantoine
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Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 11:06 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
Derigin and I discussed it and were considering Hard Rock/Heavy/Thrash Metal (later). You'd know this if you weren't currently using an iPad in a ziploc bag while floating in an inner tube in the middle of the lake in the woods of Quebec, or wherever you are now! :P

Hey, I'm doing the exact same thing I do at home but outside in the forest! But yeah, since Death Magnetic is a return to their "roots", I guess it's accurate.
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Viral
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:04 am
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 3:36 am 
 

Was any consideration given to my post on Mystifier? Just curious.

Also, Laceration (http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Laceration/21816) plays death/doom, not really pure death metal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ9t906fgo8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjRehQq8mkM
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Sathanas_BM wrote:
The biggest influence of Swedish Death Metal is In Flames.

That's not right. That's not even wrong. It's so fundamentally inaccurate that I think it may well be incorrectable.

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dystopia4
Veteran

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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 10:41 pm 
 

Does anyone else feel that Melvins being listed as "Various" is kind of lame, especially since it's listed that they play "grunge, stoner rock, sludge, drone, hardcore influenced rock, or experimental pieces".I think that grunge/stoner/sludge/hardcore would be fine as it encompasses the majority of what they've done, even if it leaves out a few outliers in their sprawling discography (ambient, drone ect).
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Morrigan
Crone of War

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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 11:57 pm 
 

SadisticGratification wrote:
I looked through the Rotting Christ profile and I see the genre completely ignores the grindcore early days and has the ultimately vague tag of Extreme Metal there, what the fuck is that? such a blanket term. I checked the reports before suggesting changes and it seems this has been suggested a few times only to be closed. In my personal opinion it should be

black metal/grindcore (early)
black metal(mid)
melodic black metal(later)

maybe a bit fleshed out in certain areas but I think that pretty much covers it, their early demos are so obviously grind it's not funny. And the first two albums are just black metal and after that it goes towards a more gothic/melodic black metal career. I love these guys and have listened to all their stuff.

Their early demos are not really relevant to their discography and overall sound that they developed later, which is what the genre tag is for. Plenty of bands have early demos that are of a completely different genre than the rest of their career. The grindcore debuts are mentioned in the additional notes, which is more than enough.

And later Rotting Christ is neither black nor gothic metal. It's just some form of weirdly dark-sounding metal with harsh vocals, so we used that tag because nothing else fit.
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Porman
Sweek Souvlaki Muncher

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:00 pm
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:44 am 
 

I've been a close fan of Rotting Christ since the mid 90's. Even I had a hard time figuring out what they are playing today. The current description fits well enough and I think that Morrigan pretty much nailed it there.

Two-three demos, which weren't even really considered official by the band, even thought they did release and spread them publicly, are not enough for the grindcore tag.
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SadisticGratification
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:00 pm
Posts: 406
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 8:02 am 
 

Ok fair enough guys :) thanks for responding anyway.

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MutantClannfear
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 2100
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:00 am 
 

Lethargy (US): http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Lethargy/2945

Okay, so this band is listed as "technical death metal". I was going to list these guys in the "Why was band X accepted?" thread, but listening to their demo it actually does sound like, well, technical death metal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEJgwsoFSUA

All the other stuff I'm hearing from them, however, sounds more -core than metal. Sounds like wanky mathcore with tech-death influences that are just sort of stumbled across rather than intentionally planned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MdLcE8j1AU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDhayOa-ZMo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-aXWddOgvk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXh282Xtam0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9EWe44q0XU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkVwwpBbY2c

So "Technical Death Metal (early), Mathcore/Technical Death Metal (later)"? I guess that's what it'd be, but that seems really wordy...

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droneriot
RETIRED

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:30 pm 
 

Ascended is listed as "Doom/Death Metal" but their stuff sounds more like regular Finnish death metal (which always had a few doomy elements, but not enough to make it death/doom.)

Two samples: link
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Cthulhu_Fhtagn
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:32 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:30 pm 
 

I started to listen to Rising Moon and it sounds like melodic death metal, not death metal. The album "Area 51" sounds like almost like Kalmah without keyboards. I see no relation to Bolt Thrower or Jungle Rot, and two reviewers even call it melodic death metal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMa29NDaw4s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARERTki05dg
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THEMICRULAH wrote:
IT'S THE SAME INVERTED AS REGULAR?! MY BRAIN IS BROKEN! TOTAL SATAN!

ShaolinLambKiller wrote:
holy fuck what the fuck is that garbage? Though it's more interesting than Summoning ever will be.

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