Stop splitting hairs, already! The tag is fine as is!

I don't know. It's a big stretch to call their last album deathcore. But okay, guess I'm splitting hairs again...

This band:
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Tur ... 3540382612

I contacted them and they told me that the genre should be Southern Groove Metal , can you evaluate the band?? thanks
https://www.facebook.com/Turbulence.ofi ... 2405167945

I don't think Witche's Brew are anywhere near doom. Just bluesy hard rock/metal with southern rock influences.

Updated Soulstorm to Industrial Death Metal. Pretty obvious really.

Uhm, on the subject of Dying Fetus...

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I still have some problems with the simple "Death Metal" tag, their music really draws influence (quite a bit of it) from a ton of different genres.

Their first demo (Bathe in Entrails) is really just Suffocation-esque death/grind with more groove to me. Their other albums all really come close to sounding like death/grind as well, to the point where Reign Supreme is really just a more brutalized Misery Index clone.

I agree they probably don't need a brutal or technical tag because they're not enough of either to be one or either, but the grind influences are really obvious to me, if you really had to nail it down to 1 genre, they should indeed be death metal, but that involves overlooking a huge aspect of their sound, which is grindcore.

I understand that it's unnecessary to consider them something like "Brutal/Technical Death Metal/Grindcore" because that's really overdoing it, they have slams, gurgles/slam-y growls, sweeping/wanking riffs, but they're really just decoration, as for the grind influences I feel they play a more prominent role in the main idea of the music Dying Fetus play.

Not even really asking for a genre change (yet), just wanna see what mods have to say on this.

I'd agree based on the tracks from their ReverbNation (also seems rather borderline...), but what about the other two releases?

LeMiserable,

We ended up changing the genre to "Technical Death Metal" based on a brief discussion. We don't believe it has enough grind in it to have "Grindcore" attached to its genre label.

That said, I do want to emphasize something. By no means do we discourage you (or anyone) from bringing up concerns with genre labels, but it is important to note that it is this type of genre nitpicking - particularly of well-known and already thoroughly reviewed bands - that can be misconstrued as a petty annoyance. Again, by no means do we want to discourage users from bringing up genre labels that ought to be modified, but making a habit of almost solely spending your time and energy on picking apart small, inconsequential details in a band's style of music really isn't worth it. Trust us on that.

Without really wanting to extend this discussion further let me just say that I think that just "death metal" was way more representative, as a global career encompassing definition that is, than "tech death". But that's just my humble opinion.

Being that I'm posting here, can the "Experimental" tag be appended to Jumalhämärä's genre? As in "Black Metal, Experimental"? Because in all honesty if there's a band that needs that tag it surely is Jumalhämärä.

To be fair LeMiserable flagged three or four similar reports for bands including Carcass and I told him to post here instead to help facilitate some discourse. I don't see it as too much of a nuisance in this regard.

I certainly agree with this. Their last few albums have been all over the freaking place; church organs, avant-garde soundscapes and whatnot.

Pretty much, yeah. I was listening to their new EP yesterday and it barely has any resemblance to any of their albums. It's like on each release they seem like a different band! Anyway, the reason for putting it out as "Black, Experimental" is because I think that the band is very much a (weird) black metal act on Resignaatio, whereas stuff like Resitaali and Songless Shores fall into the experimental realm without any apparent relation with black metal (or metal at all at some points). Granted those three works were all that I've heard from them, but I'd say that should be a more accurate description of their sound.

Nah that ordering doesn't gel for me. We should use the (early), (later) template. So tell me what genres you want represented. TheStormIRide seems to stand by your statements; I have no qualms with changing this.

I see you changed it already to "Experimental Black Metal". The thing is, we're talking about three releases that date from 2010, 2013 and 2014. And the only one that to me is black metal is the one from 2010 (debut album). Resitaali is organ music with no metal at all, and Songless Shores is... well, I don't know what the fuck that is! Experimental droning industrial whatever?! And I'm not even counting the pre-2010 material which I've never heard, and we're talking about twelve years of existence with two demos and two EPs there.

I don't really understand why you say it "doesn't gel" with you. Why is (to give an example) Vintersorg's tag as it is then? What's the Mods reasoning with the commas in the genre tags then?

They certainly have gone in all sorts of directions, but their early material was certainly black metal. It was until later when they started going all over the place. The last two albums have had little to no traditional black metal influence, so I think that leaving the black metal tag out of the later portion would be appropriate. I'd suggest something that would involve Black Metal (early), Experimental (later). Rather than just Experimental Black Metal.

I can certainly live with that. But I'd still like some clarification on the comma thingy, if you guys don't mind shedding some light on it.

All of the tracks on their Revernation page is from their second full-length. I'd say the sound of the first album falls somewhere in between Sabbath's groovier side ala AiC's Facelift minus the doomy tracks like "Love, Hate, Love" and "I Can't Remember", some Black Label Society with some Zeppelin, Skynyrd and Black Oak Arkansas influences. The other one is a demo I reckon featuring three songs from the first full-length and some earlier demo tracks.

Here are a few songs from their first record:

Fetid Zombie has a lot of goregrind on their first album, though I'm not sure if it's enough to merit a tag change (I'm not a grindcore connoisseur).
http://fetidzombie.bandcamp.com/album/p ... he-scalpel

Shadow Host is listed as power metal, but I think they count more as power/thrash metal
or power metal that became thrash metal.
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Shadow_Host/5734
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcJi0QX-hBk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG6t-NffbyE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C4ciEMjwX0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HfEiHUWP9Y

flaccid_sphincter: Alhadis?

Abethedemon: Yeah, amended.

So why the heck is Xerath listed as Orchestral/Progressive/Groove? Unless we are now interpreting idiosyncratic djent riffage as "progressive," I don't think the middle descriptor belongs.

Please delete "Arena Rock (? what ?) /AOR" from Quiet Riot's genre, their first two 70's albums are definitely heavier.
This is hard rock:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... RRGarukzdf
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... gM-r1V09jp

I think it's probably because the term "djent" wasn't really around when Xerath came around, and they're one of the first blatant Meshuggah clones I remember hearing (though I do remember there being plenty of Pantera riffs as well, so it's not a STRAIGHT clone I guess, and not enough to nuke the band or anything if my memory serves), so that weird tag is most likely a result of not really having an accurate term for them when they were submitted, and then never amending it because nobody has given a single shit about them in eons.

Yeah, amended accordingly.

and amended a little again. I'm slowly getting rid of the Orchestral tab, since it is a useless Synonym for Symphonic.

(Albeit really Orchestral should really be the proper term in general, but somehow Symphonic is the term used... *shrug*)

I think the idea is that not all bands use orchestras, but still go for the sound with keyboards, so "orchestral" would be misleading. Though not to say that "symphonic" is perfect!

Okay, I'd like to make a case for Burning Skies's genre being changed. And, yes, before you decide to rub it in my face, I'm well aware that I was the reason that the genre got changed last time and so I'm not in the most valid position to be asking for it to be changed again. They're currently listed as "deathcore/grindcore", and while the band hasn't released anything new since I asked for that change to be made, I feel like there's a better term for it than what I suggested.

Their earlier stuff was some sort of death metal/hardcore. Not exactly what's come to be known as "deathcore", but very heavy metalcore with occasional, obvious death metal influences:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9EGtDn-T50 (only full song I could find online)
http://www.amazon.com/Murder-By-Means-O ... B00177JBH8

The later two albums and their final EP are harder to pin under a single genre, I think. They've got a very notable thrash metal influence, with a certain churning and chunkiness indicative of -core (though not exactly deathcore) as well as some more extreme influences, the nature of which I can't decide on (death metal? grindcore?):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDClrxWkJzQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUN0Oqu ... 40F879DE7A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LveNhlqHgsg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sTtBCcVIIw

It'd be nice to have some other opinions on this.

^
Regarding your JFAC report, I notified BH; looks like it's been dealt with.

In the meantime, I added metalcore to Silent Descent, bringing it to "Melodic Death Metal/Metalcore with Trance elements." Sounds like The Fall of Ideals-era All that Remains more than melodeath...but I guess there is just enough of the latter to keep it in.

Moving this from the report section:

Demolition Hammer:

Why aren't they Thrash Metal (early), Groove Metal (later) yet? Tortured Existence and Epidemic of Violence are really just (brutal) thrash metal albums, you guys got that right.

But as for Time Bomb? That's really just groove metal, no question. There's literally 1 song that's entirely up-tempo, and one song that goes uptempo for a few moments, but the entire damn album is groovy apart from that.

For a band that released only 3 albums and took such a sharp turn towards a completely different style, they should really have the 2nd genre in their genre field.

Source/Evidence:

Time Bomb:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8P2E0FOAtU Under The Table
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf5A7kSsMZ4 Mindrot

2 fast(er) songs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jlpvj5USdpU Waste (This song doesn't get fast until far down the 3rd minute)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdCa0vs9ORU Time Bomb, honestly, the only song that's uptempo when it's actually following a decent tempo, and basically half of the song is just groovy plodding, then it speeds up, well that's succesfully about...3 minutes of thrash on a groove album, that's very little, even for a groove album.

If they're not Thrash Metal (Early), Groove Metal (Later), then I don't know who is.

Seems reasonable; done.

While we're on the subject:

Impending Doom:

So, I feel pretty certain that the "Brutal Death Metal" tag can be removed altogether, this band is just deathcore and has always been. The only thing remotely rooted in "brutal" is their first EP, and that's a handful of songs amongst a 5-album discography playing deathcore.

Their 1st album is just deathcore, it's fucking massive, the vocals are crazily heavy, but there's really very little actual brutal influence. There are no slams, there are no pig squeals, the music doesn't feel build around slams too. Saying their 1st album is "brutal deathcore" is already a major stretch, let alone calling it "brutal death metal", their EP is really just a hybrid between BDM and deathcore.

I'd say they should just be Deathcore.

Source/Evidence:

EP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns99ONsq_vs For All Have Sinned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Ufpz_O1O4 Patience In Suffering

Debut:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv15g6_bAxk My Nemesis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wVWEbJyiA0%20In Reverence Of

You see, just because an album has a massive production does not mean it's automatically brutal as a result. Yeah, it may be sonically brutal, but musically? Not a chance. Brutal Deathcore as I usually hear it is either "regular" deathcore with the addition of slams, piq squeals and more brutal elements you could hear on BDM/Slam albums (Acrania, early Carnifex). The other type is basically just slam death metal with deathcore elements, although that's usually defined as "Brutal Death Metal/Deathcore" on MA (Craniotomy, Ingested).

Nailed.Dead.Risen is neither. It doesn't have slams, it doesn't have pig squeals. It's just heavy as balls. The guitar is layered a shiteload of times, the vocals are immensely heavy. But there are no actual BDM elements to be found on the album. It's really just uptempo tremolo's and retardedly heavy breakdowns. But that's just sonic heaviness, not musical.

The EP is the closest to actual brutal they ever got, but that's like 10% of the band's discography. Are we really giving them the BDM tag just for that? Suicide Silence's first album is more brutal-based than Impending Doom's debut, and that band isn't even accepted on the site...

...

We have Carnifex on the site listed as Deathcore. But their debut is far, far more BDM-based than Impending Doom's debut. Far more. Dead In My Arms is plain brutal deathcore. It contains breakdowns, slambreakdown-whatevers, and actual slams, and not even a few. There's actually quite a lot of 'em scattered throughout the album. The deepest growled vocals are BDM growls of some kind. That's where it stops, but that's already more than Nailed.Dead.Risen. If we wanna keep Impending Doom at BDM we might as well add "Brutal Deathcore (early)" to Carnifex.

You finally nailed it about a genre, LeMiserable.

Changed Skrew to Industrial Thrash Metal (early), Death Metal (later) based on the new record.

So I suggested changing Ad Vitam Aeternam to Symphonic/Gothic/Doom Metal, and it was rejected. I kind of wince at the notion of calling it "gothic doom" but I really don't think Dark Metal is a good description. It's the same kind of stuff that The Sins of Thy Beloved and early-Tristania were playing in the late 90's. Even just Symphonic Metal would be a better term, in my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKUHaG6PVuo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Xdh1nIEqg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtM5iS76yTo

Agalloch is Atmospheric Folk AND Doom metal, NOT Post metal-rock.
The Atmospheric Folk (neo-folk) is overshadowing the Post metal-rock genre, to the point that the later is viewed as ''optional'' to say the least.

90% of their albums don't even include post metal-rock influences (check below)

Besides, we shouldn't even check what they, themselves, call their music in interviews (metal-archives rules).

We should focus on the music itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHk5EnSuOV0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHJjSSrR6x4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvWul-f65kE

Just fyi what the band calls themselves is just about the last thing that matters in labeling/categorizing the genre. Otherwise we'd be calling bands like Alestorm pirate metal.

That's exactly what he said.

Ssshhhh Clanny. Dyslexia is a bitch, let's just ignore my completely useless post and pretend like it never happened. You didn't see anything.

Hehe, no problem.

This was discussed already, and I inquired with some that are very familiar with the band, and they think the genres should stand. Atmospheric folk/doom/post-rock is about as far from my interest as you can get, so if any other mods are interested in chiming in (I know this band is quite popular amongst a certain crowd) go to town.

Oki doki! Allow me to give a shoutout about Solstafir too:

Solstafir is Viking/Black metal (early), Post/Gothic Metal (later).
Atmospheric Metal is an option too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYa6zpxyC-U