Nobody is denying anyone a genre tag like a goddamn medal you earn. More important than covering every single niche with a ridiculous tag like "avant-garde experimental extreme progressive post-metal/rock" is having a sensible, overarching genre tag. There's a reason we simply label Mayhem as "black metal" rather than "black/death/thrash metal (early) black metal (mid) experimental black metal (2000) black metal (now)." Ihsahn's genre covers his whole career pretty well and nobody is going to not be able to figure out that his last album is some variety of extreme progressive metal.

Psycroptic sounds nothing like sludge metal. Still sounds like technical death metal to me. I don't think anyone is going to mistake two bars of groovy chugging for groove metal when it is followed by two bars of noodling.

Chicago Thrash Ensemble sounds like 90s/00s hardcore/metalcore mixed with thrash metal. Perhaps a bit odd, but the current tag isn't really a stretch. It's not that far off from something like Leeway.

I think you're right that Sludge Metal no longer is correct on its own. I am familiar with their catalog and through 2013 I think the tag was really the only thing that fit nicely but maybe not anymore. The hard thing right now is that the last two records have been collaborations - so it's not just them making the music... that said, I think Drone is definitely applicable now and it's clunky but "Experimental Sludge Metal/Drone" might cover it enough that we don't need to do an early/later.

It's a bit too late now, theunrelentingattack. Case closed.
I didn't ask for such a long tag, Zodijackyl. Just to make one thing clear, I'm not around here as often as I'd like to because I spend most of whatever free time I've got fixing things around the site. However, when I'm here, it's because I want to help you, that's all. Whether I agree or not with all that genre-based band taxonomy you use doesn't matter as much to me as knowing that it's been handled as efficiently as possible.
As for Psycroptic, I said Progressive Groove Metal sans the sludge - I thought the reporter wrote sludge in his report, but obviously he wrote punk. As for me, I don't care about the band. Just wanted to make sure the report was handled well, but then we're back to the same point.

Yeah, day late...

What do you call this message that tails every post you make? =S
How do you make one?

Only Living Witness

This has been in the queue for a while. Input is welcome.
http://www.metal-archives.com/report/vi ... 2/show/all

Alrighty. I don't have the rank to edit the genre, should I submit a report for it or is mentioning it here enough?

this is enough but I want to get another Mods opinion first as "experimental" is often a tag we like to stay away from if we can.

Alright, no worries.

I don't know where Diamhea is today. Well... I guess he's earned the right to party this Saturday night. =D
However, we've got like 15 reports concerning genre-change, clogging the report queue, some are quite laughable. I don't close genre-related reports. If a mod is around, it seems like a ten-minute work on the whole. Dig into it

I posted something about it in the point whore thread too.

Can someone explain to me why the hell Hate is listed as Death Metal and not Blackened Death Metal? I went through all the reports in the history but essentially all it was was 5-6 guys reporting the wrong genre and a mod saying "Nope, you're wrong, I'm right". They've been Blackened ever since Anaclasis. One could argue the black elements aren't strong enough (which I disagree with) but if you put Hate beside any other vanilla Death Metal band, you've have to be new to the genre not to heard the difference. Chromatic dissonance, double harmonic... Don't know how someone can say later Behemoth warrants the tag but late Hate doesn't.

You're aware that those aren't exclusive to the genre, nor they warrant the genre change to "Blackened Death Metal", right? I mean, you know which band also makes extensive use of those? Thin Lizzy. And that doesn't make them "Blackened Death Metal".

So what you're saying is that half of their discography is death metal, the other half is also death metal with arguable black elements?

Four of those reports provide no source nor samples, and the other one cites their appearance. I commented on one of these back in 2012. http://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/409212

That's because you're not only taking my text description, but doing so of a description that only explained 2 things. I wasn't trying to explain why they're black (otherwise I would have reported the genre), just describing a key black element they have. Text isn't good enough. I'll describe black metal right now and literally everything I say can describe death metal too: harsh vocals, often shrieks; black beats, usually blasts, and a lot of 16th note triplet ride work; lots of chromatic scale, harmonic minor, and double harmonic; dissonant chords, octaves, tremolo picking. One other obvious thing I could say that isn't indicative of death metal is black metal usually has a lot of high and sometimes reverb, where as death metal is usually a lot of low or low/high.

If you want me to start finding examples for you, I will. I didn't bother because the band has been reported 5 times and I haven't even considered that it could still get changed. But like I said, I would if someone would consider it.



I don't know their early discography very well (not a huge fan) but from what I remember, it's death metal, a bit old school techy at times. Their new stuff is blackened death metal straight parallel to Evangelion. I personally wouldn't say the black elements are arguable, I would say they're factually there.

Yeah many of those reports are crappy, especially the corpse paint one. But without going back and actually looking at the name of the mod, it seems like one of the mods was vehemently against changing it to anything but death metal without even considering it. Behemoth and Hate are essentially the 2 forerunners of the Polish brutal blackened death style (some others being Crionics, Hyperial, Trauma [hardly blackened for this band though] and Unearthly [not all of these are Polish]).

I was going by this:



Anyway.



All of the reports were irrelevant due to lacking a source, so there might be some dismissive comments. One of them had the source/evidence field "All the discography of the band" - nobody is going to go through a band's entire discography just because someone said so. Another one had a link to last.fm tags, and yet another had a link to the band's main page. The only comment on a report that didn't merit ignoring was mine, which included two youtube links to songs. That's really all we need - a few representative samples. I'm not thoroughly familiar with the band, but apparently I commented in 2012.

http://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/409212

I remember when Hate was changed from death/black (or black/death or whatever) to "just" death metal. Alas, I'd swear I posted in this very thread for a genre change and a mod did it, but it's been too long to remember.

Putting out my two cents here, everything up to Anaclasis has no black metal in it. It's just Deicide worship, pure and simple. And I'd really argue on just how much black metal is actually there from Anaclasis onwards... But then again, different people view the same subject differently.

Seems you did. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=35533&p=2179616&hilit=hate#p2179616

Yeah, that was it.

Zodijackyl, you seems very open to discussion here. Is it worth me submitting a report with some examples?

Androdion, you are definitely correct in that before Anaclasis, there is 0 black metal elements. Anaclasis and onwards, you said there is little to no influence, which I guess where our opinions differ. But then again, it sounds like in your other post, you said that Demigod-Evangelion is not blackened either so it's more the style that you think is debatable whether it's blackened or not rather than just Hate.

Since we've discussed it here, it'd be better to post examples here.

About the nature of genres, we'd prefer to keep them simple unless there's a significant change. If the band's later works are unmistakably death metal, it's not bad to simply cover the band's whole career as death metal. We have a lot of bands who have played some variant of a genre listed with only the single, overarching genre - Mayhem and Satyricon as black metal, Cannibal Corpse without mentioning thrash in the early stuff and technical leanings in the later stuff. Simple genre tags aren't necessarily "incomplete."

So you're posting general genre tags to remove clutter and complexity, that makes sense.

I'll post some stuff here probably later tonight (at work now).

Yeah, pretty much. But to be quite frank I think the "blackened death" tag is a bit... I don't know, weird perhaps. It's kind of like saying "death metal with black metal influences" or something like that, you know?! But I'm going to head in that direction, just venting out my opinion.

Hey all,

I have a bit of a problem with the genre label of Xoth - http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Xoth/3540384828

When I read something like "epic black metal", the first bands that come to mind are Summoning and Caladan Brood, bands which sound very different when compared to this band:

I wouldn't even say riff construction here is predominantly based in black metal, but the "epic" part of the tag really kills any usefuleness and, IMO, makes it really misleading. I'd suggest changing the tag to "melodic black/death metal" since 1) certain riff sections indeed to resemble conventional BM tremolo riffs (most noticably, the opening riff on "Transcending the Energy Harvest", starting at 13:20) and 2) the melodic edge is also emphasized (prime example being "The Rubicon of Humanity"; 8:11) while a good deal of riffs are really neither-here-nor-there, but clearly can be related to some melodeath conventions.

Anyway, didn't want to report a mistake prior to seeing what other folks think (but I'm dead sure that "epic" really has to go).

^ Sounds fair enough. Changed.

Geldorum's submission Wormwood has a lot more elements than those in your everyday kind of Black Metal... Very melodic, and at times almost prog-gish, esp. that some of the riffing on that first link is quite atypical of Black Metal. Was wondering if moderators would like to take another listen...

It was submitted as "atmospheric black and roll" which is a bullshit tag, I simply added them as "black metal" but I'll add "melodic" since they do sound like Vreid, not progressive though.

Definitely not. Spot on!
This forum works a thousand times better than reports pertaining to "wrong music genre".

Any chance you'd consider this report: http://www.metal-archives.com/report/vi ... 9/show/all ?
Reported a week ago by a n00b, who took it upon himself to change it. So, chances are no one saw it in the queue.
Hint: A Dimmu Borgir clone called Artep.

Wow, Dimmu should sue for plagiarism.

Report was flagged and only cited their Facebook page, which isn't enough on its own, but the sample (and a skimming through TSIR's review) is enough for me to change the genre.

Trust me, you didn't miss much.

Lost Generation - hardcore punk until the last album, "Midnight Meat Train", which is thrash metal album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX1JQNJg7zg

Their other stuff is like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSXKb0yD-5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51qVuBxb6to

^ Thanks...

Again, another newb, Lowick, filed a report and took assignment, so this might have gone unseen:
http://www.metal-archives.com/report/vi ... 8/show/all



Do you want to consider it?
His suggestion is: Black Metal -> Pagan Black Metal
My suggestion is: Black Metal -> Raw Black Metal (but I don't think it's necessary)

An old report requesting genre change, which I think is worth looking into. The report was set to resolved two months ago by eSB.
http://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/508184 -- Quoting "our genre: raw black metal/punk (punk music is 60% of us, so not to show it is like killing a half of us)"

Kindly asking Az to restore "Funeral" in the tag:
https://grimoirerecords.bandcamp.com/album/foehammer
Tracks 3 and 2.

Unsalvation:
Metallum page: http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Uns ... 3540387816
Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zw_cVJjeIE

This is a bestial/war black metal, but, since you do not use that term here, I suggest it to be renamed to Black/Death Metal, as every other band of this genre is.

Yeah, I removed that tag before approving them. Didn't really sound that funeral-y to me, more on the lower end of somewhat sludgy doom overall, but then again funeral doom is the doom subgenre I'm the least familiar with, so if other mods disagree, be my guest. Seems Diamhea agrees with me, though.

That's as maybe, but Diamhea closes all reports without samples. Those who really care flag another report with samples, in which case he takes their request into consideration .

That report included a link to their Bandcamp.