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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:55 pm 
 

No paycheck this month! :lol:

I know things take time and that there's more pressing concerns than changing a band's genre. Like dealing with the rejected bands and the review queue. ;)
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MetalCuresHeadaches
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:31 am 
 

Well, speaking of generic tags, there are nine bands on the site with the plain "Epic Metal" tag, one band with the tag of "Extreme Metal", and a good 70+ bands with the sole tag of "Dark Metal". If someone has the patience for it, perhaps they should be looked at too.
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AcidWorm
Veteran

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:37 pm
Posts: 2749
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:31 pm 
 

What's wrong with 'dark metal'?
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MetalCuresHeadaches
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:03 am 
 

AcidWorm wrote:
What's wrong with 'dark metal'?


Is 'dark metal' a legitimate genre, and I just missed the memo? Cause it sounded like a generic tag, or another name for black or gothic metal.
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MutantClannfear
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:26 am 
 

It's a complicated case. "Dark metal" generally refers to this weird hybrid of black/gothic/doom metal that there isn't really a name for otherwise. It's along the lines of "black 'n' roll" as far as validity goes (i.e. not particularly well-defined but existent in theory).

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Mercyful_kill1245
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:12 pm
Posts: 11
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:44 am 
 

Am I the only person who thinks that Bathory should have thrash in its genre as well? This is due to Octagon and Requiem being thrash albums and are even said in the additional notes.

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 5817
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:23 am 
 

It appears it was changed yet again by a lone mod for some reason. Shouldn't have happened without some discussion (at least I don't think there was one). We're discussing it in the HQ, for now I've reverted the change.
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MetalCuresHeadaches
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:44 am 
 

MetalCuresHeadaches wrote:
Well, speaking of generic tags, there are nine bands on the site with the plain "Epic Metal" tag, one band with the tag of "Extreme Metal", and a good 70+ bands with the sole tag of "Dark Metal" disregard that one. If someone has the patience for it, perhaps they should be looked at too.


Not sure why editing my above post ended up down here, but yeah...
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MutantClannfear
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:51 pm 
 

^ You must have pressed "Quote" on accident instead of "Edit". :P

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narsilianshard
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:22 pm
Posts: 620
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:46 pm 
 

Apologies if this has been brought up before, but why is "Viking Metal" considered a genre? Isn't it strictly a lyrical theme? There are hundreds of bands listed as Viking Metal and I think it's a pretty poor user experience since the bands listed can play anything from black to folk to death metal.

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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 4851
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:29 am 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
Apologies if this has been brought up before, but why is "Viking Metal" considered a genre? Isn't it strictly a lyrical theme? There are hundreds of bands listed as Viking Metal and I think it's a pretty poor user experience since the bands listed can play anything from black to folk to death metal.


Viking metal is a widely used term that describes music in the vein of Bathory's "Hammerheart" which is mid-paced epic thrash with prominent, triumphant melodies and a strong influence of black metal and a folkish touch. While it's generally a variant/mixture of black and thrash metal with a touch of heavy/power in the melodies and mid-paced music, those terms have grown to describe other styles. Perhaps the band that has coherently embodied the style since its establishment is Graveland.

Yes, the genre is broad, but genres are broad generalizations. You'll find quite a bit of variation between bands simply labeled "black metal" from the symphonic, progressive black metal of later Emperor to the rock-n-roll/heavy metal-inspired black metal of Grand Belial's Key - we prefer to keep genre labels as simple as possible.

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droneriot
RETIRED

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 5240
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:00 am 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Dark_Heresy/8403

This band, currently labeled "technical death metal", is not really technical at all, but has all that avant-garde type of stuff thrown in, so I'd change their genre to "avant-garde death metal". I'll ask Azmodes to download it from me once he gets on IRC, then he can share it in the HQ, I don't like sharing stuff in this public thread.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
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Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:58 pm 
 

Changed.
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aeternus1990
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 9:46 am
Posts: 468
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:02 pm 
 

Gordi - listed as Heavy Metal/Hard Rock but having 3 full-length albums of non-metal music: from the 1st LP, from the 2nd LP and from the 3rd LP. Kinda prog rock/soft rock/pop.

Thin Lizzy - listed as Hard Rock/Heavy Metal only but having 4 full-length albums that are very far from anything hard and heavy: samples from 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974. It's blues rock with various influences.

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Nebster173
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 8:22 am
Posts: 301
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:13 am 
 

Why is Vader listed as Death/Thrash? They're very thrashy death metal, but they're not Deathrash. A band doesn't have to be as far removed from thrash as Incantation to be considered purely death metal. Plenty of death metal naturally is thrashy, and Vader doesn't lean so much that side to warrant the Death/Thrash tag. When I think Deaththrash I think about Ripping Corpse, Massacra, Merciless, Aggressor, Num Skull... etc. Vader should be listed as "Death Metal" because that's what they are.

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dantes
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:09 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:22 am 
 

Thin Lizzy SHOULD be here. They indeed were maybe more Hard rock than Heavy Metal but they helped shape what Heavy Metal is today.

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Cursarion
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:56 am
Posts: 646
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:10 am 
 

^ Note that this isn't the Cleansing the archives, a.k.a. Why was band X accepted? topic. He's only suggesting a genre change.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
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Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:12 am 
 

Changed Gordi's genre.

Vader: Eh, sounds very nitpicky. I'd say at least their early stuff has more than enough thrash to warrant mention.
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doomster999
Keeper of the Dreary Realm

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:58 am
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:25 pm 
 

dantes wrote:
Thin Lizzy SHOULD be here. They indeed were maybe more Hard rock than Heavy Metal but they helped shape what Heavy Metal is today.


Thin Lizzy is on the archives dammit: http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Thin_Lizzy/1499

Now, what's your point exactly?
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Nebster173
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 8:22 am
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:42 pm 
 

Azmodes wrote:
Vader: Eh, sounds very nitpicky. I'd say at least their early stuff has more than enough thrash to warrant mention.



The further you go through their discography the more untrue that tag becomes. Why not "Death/Thrash Metal (early), Death Metal (later)"?

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BastardHead
Magic Mike

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
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Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:50 pm 
 

I've personally always just considered Vader to be just regular ol' death metal myself, but I recall bringing their genre up a while back and the mod consensus was that the thrash influence is prevalent enough to warrant a mention. Remember, while I agree that it doesn't have to sound like Incantation or Morbid Angel to just be death metal, it also doesn't have to sound like Agressor or Merciless to be death/thrash. Splitting the genres up doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either since Vader is pretty notorious for keeping their core sound intact with every album.
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aeternus1990
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 9:46 am
Posts: 468
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:59 pm 
 

Azmodes wrote:
Changed Gordi's genre.


Thanks!

dantes wrote:
Thin Lizzy SHOULD be here. They indeed were maybe more Hard rock than Heavy Metal but they helped shape what Heavy Metal is today.


Of course, I'm just suggesting the additional genre to them because they have 4 full-length albums of different music :)

English Dogs - their only "power metal" album is "Where Legend Began" (still, it sounds like a mix of crossover and power/speed metal) and the rest of discography - hardcore punk/crossover, so should be just it.


Last edited by aeternus1990 on Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 5817
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:00 pm 
 

doomster999 wrote:
dantes wrote:
Thin Lizzy SHOULD be here. They indeed were maybe more Hard rock than Heavy Metal but they helped shape what Heavy Metal is today.


Thin Lizzy is on the archives dammit: http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Thin_Lizzy/1499

Now, what's your point exactly?

I think he just misinterpreted aeternus' post as a removal request.
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doomster999
Keeper of the Dreary Realm

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:58 am
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:28 pm 
 

Ahh, my apologies then for being unnoticed. :durr:
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Nebster173
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 8:22 am
Posts: 301
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:34 am 
 

BastardHead wrote:
I've personally always just considered Vader to be just regular ol' death metal myself, but I recall bringing their genre up a while back and the mod consensus was that the thrash influence is prevalent enough to warrant a mention. Remember, while I agree that it doesn't have to sound like Incantation or Morbid Angel to just be death metal, it also doesn't have to sound like Agressor or Merciless to be death/thrash. Splitting the genres up doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either since Vader is pretty notorious for keeping their core sound intact with every album.


Yeah, except Thrash isn't nearly as flexible and divergent as Death Metal. There isn't really a whole lot of ways you can play Death/Thrash, but sure, it doesn't have to sound strictly like the aforementioned bands, but the thrash atleast has to be as prominent in the mix. And that simply isn't the case for Vader. Maybe there would be an argument if all Vader released was TUI and their demos, but everything DP and up would be a stretch. Their tremolo riffs are not thrash, their general pace and song progressions aren't thrash, their drumming, the vocals, the atmosphere... etc. Vader does stay true to their roots and they're definitely on the thrashier side of death metal, no disagreements there. But so are many other bands, and you'd have to tag all of those as Death/Thrash if you want to be consistent with this categorization. Vader's Thrash is much more in spirit than in actual sound. Just quickly skim through their discography. This really isn't as ambiguous as some make it seem.

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dantes
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:09 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:21 am 
 

I´m sorry, I mistook this suggestion for a deletion demand. Concerning TL's genre, what you say sounds fine actually.

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:30 am 
 

Without wanting to arise a flaming shitstorm, but about Vader.

I was actually one of those who always saw them as just death metal with some thrash influence, but as years went by I began to notice how the thrash is consistently there. And you know what, there's a difference between having a thrash influence and bearing actual thrash elements, which Vader actually do. Even later on in their discography their sound is way too thrash-infused for the tag not to stick.

Next you know you'll want Thanatos to have the genre tag as "Death/Thrash Metal - early, Death Metal - later" because their later works don't sound as close to Scream Bloody Gore/Seven Churches/Pleasure To Kill. Seriously dude, give it a rest.

PS: I'm no Mod so excuse me for the rant. I'm just a longtime Vader fan.
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BastardHead
Magic Mike

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:38 pm 
 

If this isn't thrashy, I don't know what is. I still tag Vader as simply death metal in all of my personal organization and reviews and whatnot, but I understand the rest of the mods' consensus because there is a good amount of thrash influence in their music. "Death/Thrash (early) Death Metal (later)" is really just splitting hairs when it comes to a band like Vader who is so infamous for never straying from their original sound.
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OpsiusCato
Mexican Metal Inquisition

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am
Posts: 1315
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:22 pm 
 

aeternus1990 wrote:
English Dogs - their only "power metal" album is "Where Legend Began" (still, it sounds like a mix of crossover and power/speed metal) and the rest of discography - hardcore punk/crossover, so should be just it.

What!? Are you deaf? Or just talking because you're able to? Please, go listen to their whole discography before doing dumb claims. Once you have done so, you'll notice that "Mad Punx & English Dogs" and "Invasion of the Porky Men" are Punk albums, while "To the Ends of the Earth", "Forward into Battle", "Metalmorphosis" and "Where Legend Began" are Power/Speed Metal albums (TtEotE has a lot of Thrash in it, even). The Crossover era is between 1993 and 1996 (then they changed name to Janus Stark in 1996 and became a Punk Rock/Alternative Rock band), and they came back to the punk sound after the 2007 reunion (with Wakey's version of the band). Also, in 2012, Guzz, Pinch and Adie started their own version of the band, playing only the songs from the Power Metal era. So yeah, your claims are hardly true. English Dogs' tag stays like it is.
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OpsiusCato
Mexican Metal Inquisition

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:24 pm 
 

aeternus1990 wrote:

Thin Lizzy - listed as Hard Rock/Heavy Metal only but having 4 full-length albums that are very far from anything hard and heavy (...) It's blues rock with various influences.

The current genre fits fine, in my opinion. Have you ever listened to "Thunder and Lightning"? Pretty much all the discography IS Hard Rock, while that specific album IS Heavy Metal.
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aeternus1990
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 9:46 am
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:54 pm 
 

OpsiusCato wrote:
What!? Are you deaf? Or just talking because you're able to?


Hm, not deaf exactly, but after a lot of live shows (kinda 30 in about 50 days) the studio recordings have a different sound ha-ha :D I've listened to their all albums, that's how I always do if it's possible. Just forgot how "Forward Into Battle" sounds; OK, two albums (three releases) are good and enough to mentioning.

OpsiusCato wrote:
The current genre fits fine, in my opinion. Have you ever listened to "Thunder and Lightning"? Pretty much all the discography IS Hard Rock, while that specific album IS Heavy Metal.


Of course, it's my favorite from Thin Lizzy. I didn't say they are not heavy metal, they are, I just want to suggest the additional genre of the kind of music they played in 1971 - 1974. In 1971 and 1972 especially they weren't hard rock and heavy metal. Is it hard or heavy? Or this? They became hard rock only across 1974-1975.

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OpsiusCato
Mexican Metal Inquisition

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am
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Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:54 pm 
 

aeternus1990 wrote:
OK, two albums (three releases) are good and enough to mentioning.

Four releases. Two albums, and two EPs.

aeternus1990 wrote:
Of course, it's my favorite from Thin Lizzy. I didn't say they are not heavy metal, they are, I just want to suggest the additional genre of the kind of music they played in 1971 - 1974. In 1971 and 1972 especially they weren't hard rock and heavy metal. Is it hard or heavy? Or this? You say all discography IS hard rock but c'mon, not all, they became hard rock only across 1974-1975.

Well, while Thin Lizzy started stomping on the Hard Rock grounds full-time when Brian Robertson and Scott Gorham joined in 74, they had been flirting around with plenty of sounds on their first three studio albums. Folk and Blues, for instance. Another sound which they flirted with would be Hard Rock. The "Hard Rock" tag seems to be appropiate, since it does cover well enough the whole discography, without clogging too much the genre field. If any other moderator disagrees, we could go deeper in the mater to find the proper tag for those three albums/five years period.
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MeavyHetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:54 pm
Posts: 173
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:55 pm 
 

I think Volbeat's genre tag should be changed. While Heavy/Groove Metal certainly fits their first two albums, as well as their third for the most part, their last two albums seem to stray more into hard rock territory, with metal being more of a smaller part of their sound along with the punk, country, and rockabilly influences as opposed to it being the main focus.

Beyond Hell, Above Heaven:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW3hkR-0 ... 9D0DDB07F7

Outlaw Gentlemen and Shady Ladies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoD0iWlep4w

Maybe it should be changed to "Heavy/Groove Metal (Early), Hard Rock/Heavy Metal (now)" ?

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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:57 pm 
 

Agreed, I'll change it to Heavy/Groove Metal/Hard Rock so it won't be redundant since their early days is also quite rockish.
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MetalCuresHeadaches
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:20 am 
 

MetalCuresHeadaches wrote:
Well, speaking of generic tags, there are nine bands on the site with the plain "Epic Metal" tag, and one band with the tag of "Extreme Metal". If someone has the patience for it, perhaps they should be looked at too.


Wanted to bump this, since it's been a month, and no one responded to it, and none of the genre's changed.
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NoKnownName
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:58 pm 
 

I can't find anything about the "epic metal" band Toccata. Metal Tribute to Tolkien seems to be power metal.
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Viral
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:08 pm 
 

Cult of Fire's tag should be changed to "Atmospheric or Epic Black Metal":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byn3IsVY8FE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBFRHevwsAk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_D7goM4uE4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l0JcJGuer4
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That's not right. That's not even wrong. It's so fundamentally inaccurate that I think it may well be incorrectable.

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androdion
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:38 pm 
 

Can somebody please explain to me what the hell is "death punk"?! Please, indulge me.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Bl% ... BClf/22669
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TheDefiniteArticle
Metal newbie

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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:28 pm 
 

Execution's music is clearly black/thrash, not pure thrash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScLrJhUbkHA
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Execution/77725

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:50 am 
 

androdion wrote:
Can somebody please explain to me what the hell is "death punk"?! Please, indulge me.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Bl% ... BClf/22669

Might be another term for deathrock, i.e. a mix of punk and gothic rock. I think in this case it's just misapplied since it's a recent metal/punk hybrid with a somewhat "spooky" horror punk atmosphere. Changed to just "heavy metal/punk" to keep things simple.

TheDefiniteArticle wrote:

Changed.

MetalCuresHeadaches wrote:
MetalCuresHeadaches wrote:
Well, speaking of generic tags, there are nine bands on the site with the plain "Epic Metal" tag, and one band with the tag of "Extreme Metal". If someone has the patience for it, perhaps they should be looked at too.


Wanted to bump this, since it's been a month, and no one responded to it, and none of the genre's changed.

There is a to-do list in the internal forum with questionable genres. I have added the "epic metal" search results to it.
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