The way some changes in bands happen to be portrayed here in MA sometimes doesn't make much sense to me. Like Rhapsody, which added "Of Fire" to the name because of legal reasons and was subimitted as a entirely new band because of that. Now we have a Rhapsody and a Rhapsody Of Fire that are exactly the same band with the same members, same logo, same discography (the old cds are being re-edited with the addition of the "Of Fire" to the name) and even same name!

Now Gorgoroth, which was divided in two bands with two different line-ups in a legal fight against each other, is still a single band in MA, with an arbitrary line-up portrayed as the remaining one by some fan with an opinion about who is the "true" Gorgoroth line-up. It's confusing because the line-up info contradicts the text about the band, where it's said that the other line-up (the one portrayed as ex-members ) has the rights over the name of the band. It becomes really confusing when there's links for the official websites of two different bands, one of the ex-members.

What the hell? Why two pages for a single band which has only added a word to its name while a band who has been divided in two has to remain as one? What is the rationality in that? There are other contradictory stuff just like this with smaller bands, but at least these huge bands should be arranged in a rationmal way by a moderator, the masses are just completely irrational...

As for Gorgoroth, the anti-Infernus band has no releases yet, so there is no reason to make a separate pages.
The general plan is to make separate entry, when a band changes their name and has releases under the new name.

The name change should not be only a spelling change like eyes - eyez, killers - killerz, crack - krack etc. or added location tag - Overkill L.A., X-Japan and so on.

As for the re-editions - yes, that is a problem and maybe some more detailed specifications should be set up, since that all is still an unwritten rule.

I guess it's time to point out (once again) the schizophrenic Devin Townsend page. MA seems to treat Devin Townsend and The Devin Townsend Band as the same thing, even though they are separate entities. Devin, while in TDTB, released three albums SOLO, without the band while in the band: Devlab, Hummer and Ziltoid the Omniscient. Not to mention that now TDTB is officially split-up while DT isn't but there is no change in the page apart from a tidbit in the additional notes. To make this all a little more confusing Ocean Machine (the only release of which was also released as "Devin Townsend - Ocean Machine - Biomech") has its own page which rules out the possibility that the Devin Townsend/The Devin Townsend Band page is like that to house all the related projects.

I don't know, maybe I've missed some confusing "changed name" rule that states that two names can co-exist or something. It looks like a mess to me, and the last time I brought this up I wasn't answered so I hope someone takes the time to enlighten me this time so I may walk on a lit path once again.

The thing is: The line-up of Infernus' Gorgoroth has Gaahl and King as members while Infernus is listed as ex-member. Infernus' Gorgoroth has no releases as well, the '96 EP reedition was already planned before the split-up.

I understand the problem, both bands would have the same discography and it's a matter of time until one of the sides change its name. But then one of the Gorgoroths could have its name changed and be presented as "previously known as Gorgoroth".

For Rhapsody it's nonsense to consider it a different band, the addition of "OF FIRE" is closer to a spelling change than to a name change, even the logo is still the same! And the discography for Rhapsody and Rhapsody on Fire is the same too since at least part of Rhapsody albums were re-released as Rhapsody on Fire...

It would make much more sense if Rhapsody of Fire was just labelled as "previously known as Rhapsody" instead of having it as two different bands, because there's no second band and it may make people confused. MA is a handy tool for information, clear and direct information is expected.

That system of not repeating names works fine for discographies, but not for bands. Perhaps the addition of a "previously know as..." camp of info would be a good point.

As for Gorgoroth - not only discography, but bands simply cannot be added without having an official physical release out - the written rules. So as for now, it cannot be splitted in any way.

That is why for example Alestorm has not been added yet.

As for the dispute itself, it has been discussed countless times on the forum, so please, while the discussion in general is useful, leave at least this G. issue be.

Heheh, it's completely arbitrary and non-sense. Rhapsody of Fire is different of Rhapsody, even if it's the same band with the same logo, same members, same discography, while Devin Townsend and The Devin Townsend Band are the same even if they have separated discographies, different members, different logos and a name as different as Rhapsody to Rhapsody of Fire (just the addition of two words to it).

It seems to me that the info remains as it was added first time Only changes the system make possible are accepted afterwards.

It seems that even Devin Townsend himself doesn't know what's going on. In his page, he only lists as TDTB the following albums:
Synchestra
Accelerated Evolution


It has its own page because it was originally released as Ocean Machine. The artists' page still considers it an Ocean Machine album.

About Rhapsody, I propose merging both entries if all albums are released with their new name.

About Gorgoroth, Infernus was removed from it merely because he decided to sit on his ass while the other members are still touring using that name.

I agree with the argument that the edition of the appellation to Rhapsody's name should be treated as being closer to a spelling change than to signifying a whole "new" band, especially if new presses of their back catalog are going to carry the current name (does this mean that all of the older editions have suddenly become collector's items?).

The situation with Gorgoroth vs. The Force Gorgoroth actually makes sense as we currently have it pegged (as Evenfiel and Witcher have briefly explained), though I can't say I'd blame the average Joe for being a bit confused.

I can't really speak with real definitiveness to the Devin Townsend situation, primarily out of ignorance as a result of the fact that I can hardly stand the man or his music. In terms of sheer naming convention (including my recent conclusion about Rhapsody, above) and of matters of fact concerning how solo/eponymous projects usually work in the music biz, a merged page/different spelling handling (like how it currently stands) would seem consistent. On the other hand, just how Ocean Machine fits into this is a bit unsure, though as it stands the "Devin Townsend - Ocean Machine - Biomech" iteration of Ocean Machine's album might be explained as a reissue which was renamed slightly for marketing purposes, rather than as a source of vindication for the idea that the album was originally intended as a Devin Townsend solo album. The sticking point here seems to be that all of the various Townsend projects, whatever they may be named, are basically Devin Townsend with guests, which prevents us from being able to easily explain why Devin Townsend/TDTB are merged, while Ocean Machine and Strapping Young Lad are separate. Near as I can tell, the current distinction appears to lie in that SYL and Ocean Machine are at least nominally the shared creations/brainchildren of persons besides just Townsend himself (i. e. Gene Hoglan in SYL), while TDTB is essentially just Devin Townsend solo with the aid of session performers. Again, though, this may be better determined by a person more conversant with Townsend's history.....not that it will be an easy task. I've gathered from reading various Townsend-related threads here that the finality of the man's decisions and statements as to the conditions of his various projects is not exactly reliable.

All of the above underwrite the fact that it is difficult to account for all of the wacky arrangements/situations that musicians can find themselves in under a fixed system of organization such as this site employs--some degree of inconsistency may be unavoidable, for completeness' sake.

This is correct, these are the only releases under that name (Devlab, which was released between those two, is a full-fledged Devin Townsend solo album). The Devin Townsend Band was supposed to be just that, a band with Devin Townsend in it, where he takes the majority of the songwriting duties but not ALL of it like under his solo name and as such "The Band" here is more than a bunch of session members.

I wouldn't really care about the DT/TDTB merger if it were to include Ocean Machine since the project is thought of as a DT release by most everyone anyway (i.e. wikipedia and progarchives), at least that would be consistent. The most accurate way of handling them would still of course be each having a separate page.

The confusion on Devin Townsend's, Paul Di'Anno's, Paul Chain's pages is only a reflection of their confusing careers.

I'm beginning to accept the idea of merging the Rhapsody (Of Fire) pages. Soon "Rhapsody" will only be remembered as RoF's former name anyway.

Just want to make it clear that it was not my intention to be an asshole, I mean, I just wanted to express my opinion that sometimes interventions are needed in the case of confusing careers and change of names, because users can fix up things only to a certain extent and sometimes they are more worried about scoring points, they don't care much about having the information as clear and direct as it can be. I just used Rhapsody and Gorgoroth as examples because they were the cases I remembered, I don't care much for both bands, even if I visited their ma pages lately for reasons I can't remember. Well, I just want to say I didn't mean to complaint, I just want the website to improve because I use it a lot, it is a really useful tool and a way to spend a good time...

I have no problems with separating and/or merging whatever entries are necessary and make more sense. If a decision/consensus is reached, let me know what to do with the Devin Townsend case and I'll just manually migrate the albums from one discography to the other...

I don't see any problem with creating a The Devin Towsend Band entry with those two albums.

I don't follow Gorgoroth or Rhapsody Of Fire so there is nothing about those bands I can add.

But I am still strongly for The Devin Townsend Band and Devin Townsend being split up. It is clear just by looking at the CD covers what projects each release belong too. As stated before, on Devin's personal site Synchestra and Accelerated Evolution are labelled as TDTB while no others are. Devin Townsend's own self-titled project has always been just Devin Townsend, then evolved into "Strapping Young Lad playing Devin Townsend songs" and then to TDTB which had its own separate line up from "Strapping Young Lad playing Devin Townsend songs" and now back to Devin all alone.

So if anything it should be:

Ocean Machine (own page)
Devin Towsend (solo, then with SYL members now solo again)
The Devin Townsend Band (only Synchestra and Accelerated Evolution, no other records have been labelled as TDTB)
Strapping Young Lad (this one is fine as it is, as it is distinctly its own band).

Bash, since it was you who brought it up, you can submit TDTB.

So The Devin Townsend Band will get its own page now? I think that's the right thing to do.

Teah, it seems ok to add them. Morri will transfer the albums, with the reviews, to the appropriate page.

Alright, I'll submit the band but not the releases.

Can anyone summarize which albums need to be transferred, again? I'm too lazy to re-read the whole thread.

Accelerated Evolution and Synchestra.

I made a small fuckup when I submitted the thing, I copy pasted the lineup from the Devin Townsend page and forgot to add Devin himself . I know I could've used the report function but since everyone's eye was already on this thread I might as well. Otherwise both pages are now perfect .

I think that there should be a section stating other names to refer to the band as rather than submitting a new band or it could be put in the additional notes category.