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The SHM
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:54 pm
Posts: 134
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:50 pm 
 

The stereotype of an old school rock and roller/metalhead is a dude with long hair. How exactly did that happen and when did that start?
Edit: I heard that it was supposed to be some sort of trend that got out of hand after the Beatles' moptops became famous in America, and some bands grew their hair just to shock conservatives. Another thing said that the hippies were involved. A third guy said that it was just rebelling from conservative America with no rhyme or reason. Not sure how legitimate those are, but, thinking about it, they make more sense than anything to me.
Edit: Vikings. That makes the most sense out of all of them.
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Last edited by The SHM on Thu May 16, 2013 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Poisonfume
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:26 pm
Posts: 1119
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 10:55 pm 
 

Vikings.
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Against Such Things
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 8:16 pm
Posts: 450
Location: Southern Maryland
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:08 am 
 

Poisonfume wrote:
Vikings.

It's pretty well established that no one was more metal than vikings. When in doubt, be like a viking.
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maidenpriestmanic
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:33 pm
Posts: 371
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 3:34 am 
 

Poisonfume wrote:
Vikings.


Reason I grew out my hair before I liked metal.

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waiguoren
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:23 am
Posts: 2106
Location: Make a kiss to her
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:22 am 
 

maidenpriestmanic wrote:
Poisonfume wrote:
Vikings.


Reason I grew out my hair before I liked metal.


Really? Maybe I watched Willow too many times as a kid, but long hair on men made me think more of fantasy than Vikings. Besides, Vikings always made me think of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTLQz-O5x2g

That show was dubbed into Afrikaans when I was young, so I grew up thinking of Vikings as having red hair, being badly animated and talking like a retarded Dutchman. Sad beans all around really.
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TheLiberation
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:56 pm
Posts: 570
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:30 pm 
 

I'm not really sure (in fact I just realised I've never thought about it and I probably should have), but one thing I can say as a proud owner of those: there are few more fucking awesome feelings than headbanging with long hair.
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Exigence
Age: 28 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
Posts: 689
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 3:01 pm 
 

As a form of rebellion....when "settlers" came over and began taking over North American Indian territory, many people would defect to Indians because compared to the hyper conservative european way of life, Indians were rather free to do whatever. This was completely new to Europeans. So many joined Indian tribes and ended up growing their hair out.

The settlements weren't happy about this. So making long hair 'illegal' was one of the things that happened. I guess that just trickled down through social history since then as something that was frowned upon.

I got this from "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James Loewen.

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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 2001
Location: In the Open Sea
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:46 pm 
 

To take the piss out of humans who get worked up seeing males with long hair. Eventually that started getting the males laid. Less well-sexed males started allowing their hair to lengthen in order to attract females themselves. Some of those males played guitar, and a portion of those males played Rock-and-Roll.

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tomcat_ha
Veteran

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 2606
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 7:30 pm 
 

I do find it odd that in general through history men more often than women had short hair. Although only with modern times did it really start to dominate in pretty much all cultures.

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TheUglySoldier
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 3:44 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 7:43 pm 
 

I'm sure the reasons throughout history are different in each era, but perhaps the whole rock thing started, not only as a form of "rebellion" against nothing in particular (yes, against social norms, but without really serving any purpose/being THAT insane) as well as just disregarding the need getting a hair cut. Too much shit to do, ya know?
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ClaymanOnFire
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:13 pm
Posts: 451
Location: Nice try, Big Brother
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 8:39 pm 
 

TheLiberation wrote:
I'm not really sure (in fact I just realised I've never thought about it and I probably should have), but one thing I can say as a proud owner of those: there are few more fucking awesome feelings than headbanging with long hair.

Or walking into the wind. Especially with a bit of rain. If someone ever tries to take my wallet while that's happening, I'm pretty sure I'll suddenly spew lightning and crush the assailant's skull with my bare hands.
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Exigence
Age: 28 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
Posts: 689
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 9:18 pm 
 

I grew my hair from 17 to 27, was a musician, etc. always did ok with women and jobs but when I cut it off last November, the newfound universal appeal of my appearance was great. It's been awesome since, trust me.

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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 9:21 pm 
 

I've been growing my hair since August 09. Currently it's almost at my ass. Since I know I'm eventually gonna cut it off, I plan to shave completely bald.
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TheLiberation
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:56 pm
Posts: 570
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 4:20 pm 
 

ClaymanOnFire wrote:
TheLiberation wrote:
I'm not really sure (in fact I just realised I've never thought about it and I probably should have), but one thing I can say as a proud owner of those: there are few more fucking awesome feelings than headbanging with long hair.

Or walking into the wind. Especially with a bit of rain. If someone ever tries to take my wallet while that's happening, I'm pretty sure I'll suddenly spew lightning and crush the assailant's skull with my bare hands.

Well wind is one of the few disadvantages. But yeah, I'm not sure about crushing the skull, but lightning is an option. :-D
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Poisonfume
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:26 pm
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Location: Greece
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:15 pm 
 

I cut my hair almost exclusively because of fucking wind (especially having your car window open) and post-shower shedding. I loved it but I don't miss it.
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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 855
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 9:35 pm 
 

The SHM wrote:
The stereotype of an old school rock and roller/metalhead is a dude with long hair. How exactly did that happen and when did that start?
Edit: I heard that it was supposed to be some sort of trend that got out of hand after the Beatles' moptops became famous in America, and some bands grew their hair just to shock conservatives. Another thing said that the hippies were involved. A third guy said that it was just rebelling from conservative America with no rhyme or reason. Not sure how legitimate those are, but, thinking about it, they make more sense than anything to me.
Edit: Vikings. That makes the most sense out of all of them.


It was a 60s thing. Hippies, counter-culture and everything.

The barrier between genders was breaking big time, you also had a "back to nature" thing and of course, a rebellion against the establishment.

This became a staple of rock and naturally, since heavy metal is a branch of rock...
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baron samedi
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 11:26 pm
Posts: 56
Location: Kyoto, Japan
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 10:42 pm 
 

I don't know when the last time you cut your hair is, but it costs money and takes time. money and time that could just as easily be spent on drugs alcohol or pussy. THAT'S WHY.

I used to have long hair, then I decided to become employable. I fucking hate getting hair cuts. First, you have to go to some fucking PLACE that's all out of the way and shit, and then you have to give some kinda cute bitch MONEY just to cut the shit growing out of my head? I'd do it myself except that people don't spend money at places where people look like complete jack-asses. But it's a fucking hassle and fuck this gay earth we live on where one has to cut his hair just to keep a steady job.

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ClaymanOnFire
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:13 pm
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Location: Nice try, Big Brother
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 12:19 am 
 

baron samedi wrote:
I don't know when the last time you cut your hair is, but it costs money and takes time. money and time that could just as easily be spent on drugs alcohol or pussy. THAT'S WHY.

I used to have long hair, then I decided to become employable. I fucking hate getting hair cuts. First, you have to go to some fucking PLACE that's all out of the way and shit, and then you have to give some kinda cute bitch MONEY just to cut the shit growing out of my head? I'd do it myself except that people don't spend money at places where people look like complete jack-asses. But it's a fucking hassle and fuck this gay earth we live on where one has to cut his hair just to keep a steady job.

First world problems, eh?

@TheLiberation / Poisonfume
I actually like the wind. When it's blowing in your face with your gleaming locks streaming out behind you, it more than makes up for the other times it's blowing said locks into your eyes. I think my biggest problem with my long hair is how grabby it is. My hair is extremely curly and perpetually tangled. Once when shopping, I must've been able to hook 8 to 9 shirts on hangers onto my head. I am normal.
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Filosofuck
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:19 am
Posts: 75
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 1:02 am 
 

I guess people at one time thought long hair was cool. I wish they still did, so my girl would stop telling me to cut it.

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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 2:26 am 
 

Lots of nonsense blather in here about vikings.

The answer is simply that hippies grew their hair out in defiance of social norms and as part of the whole "nature" thing. Most rock music that came out since the second half of the sixties was hippie-related or derived from hippie-related sources, so it just stuck around. Remember that Sabbath were basically hippies.
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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4136
Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 4:30 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
Remember that Sabbath were basically hippies.

:durr:
Sabbath were anti-hippies. They opposed their escapism and delusions of peace through love. Hippie culture was a tiny, short-lived movement that just happened to get a lot of attention.

I think the Beatles can be blamed for making longer-than-the-norm hair fashionable. They just coincided with the period of counterculture that utilised this as an act of rebellion. Not necessarily through the hippies though.
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TheLiberation
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:56 pm
Posts: 570
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 8:25 am 
 

baron samedi wrote:
I used to have long hair, then I decided to become employable.

Fuck that shit. I refuse to work anywhere where a male with long hair is not accepted. It's pure fucking sexism and yes, I'm dead serious now. There is no civilised reason why a tidy long haircut couldn't be part of a professional male look.

ClaymanOnFire wrote:
@TheLiberation / Poisonfume
I actually like the wind. When it's blowing in your face with your gleaming locks streaming out behind you, it more than makes up for the other times it's blowing said locks into your eyes. I think my biggest problem with my long hair is how grabby it is. My hair is extremely curly and perpetually tangled. Once when shopping, I must've been able to hook 8 to 9 shirts on hangers onto my head. I am normal.

:-D I'm quite the opposite, my hair is uber-straight and never curly in any possible way. Getting it into shape after washing it is sort of annoying and takes quite a few minutes, but the cool part is once I do that, there is literally no problem ever in keeping it the way I want, including after waking up. I still remember when I had short hair and the "WTF IS THIS" when I looked at myself in the mirror in the morning.
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Kahalachan
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Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 1:46 am
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 8:55 am 
 

Cause headbanging while bald seems less fun? :-P

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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 11:33 am 
 

inhumanist wrote:
The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
Remember that Sabbath were basically hippies.

:durr:
Sabbath were anti-hippies. They opposed their escapism and delusions of peace through love.

Keep on telling yourself that, if you like, but Sabbath were hippies at one stage. Maybe they were jaded post-hippies later, but denying their hippie-ism is pretty hard when you've got this to fight against: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRhZISswW_k

This is a discussion of imagery, and Sabbath had the hippie look in spades, even if you discount the songs about psychedelic wizards, the anti-war slant, and the many lyrical references to peace and love in mankind.
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Varth
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Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:18 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 1:57 pm 
 

I've been gainfully employed despite having long hair, I look at short haired men especially with crew cuts as neutered chihuahuas.

My dad played rock in the 60s and 70s and had long hair til he died 10 years ago, I play metal and have long hair, its just how things are.

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Under_Starmere
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 3:35 pm 
 

This thread is pure Lippyass bait.
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inhumanist
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 6:56 pm 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
Keep on telling yourself that, if you like, but Sabbath were hippies at one stage. Maybe they were jaded post-hippies later, but denying their hippie-ism is pretty hard when you've got this to fight against: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRhZISswW_k

This is a discussion of imagery, and Sabbath had the hippie look in spades, even if you discount the songs about psychedelic wizards, the anti-war slant, and the many lyrical references to peace and love in mankind.

I'm aware of that video, but this can't be a question of fashion. It's the nature of fashion to spread more or less independently from the mindsets and ideologies that created it. And, man, that's just what rock musicians dressed like at the time. Regarding their lyrics: They are actually the strongest indicator that they were in fact fundamentally antithetical to hippie mentality. Where they reference hippie ideology they are always cynical and pessimistic in character. Unlike hippie music which is either protest music, laughably naive or self-absorbed, Black Sabbath sang about inner demons, apocalyptic visions, powerful evil forces and the impotence of a generation that, as soon as it becomes aware of them, resorts to escapism and alienation. They did so through fantastic, dark imagery, which shows they are truly the first metal band.

Children Of The Grave... the title is a dead giveaway. The song questions rather than providing answers. A sceptical, sarcastic narrator examines the hippie "solution", achieving world peace through universal love, then puts it into context and points out that failure is a very real possibility. If you want a better place to live in... The "we" is absent, the perspective is that of the observer, providing constructive, but sober criticism. Can they win the fight for peace or will they disappear? The song ends on a note of uncertainty and unease.

I'm not saying Black Sabbath were anti hippies, I'm saying they were the anti-hippies. There was no point in opposing the hippie movement, it died from its own inner paradoxes. Black Sabbath's proto-metal is the cultural antidote to hippie mentality though.
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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 12:51 am 
 

Under_Starmere wrote:
This thread is pure Lippyass bait.


Ooohhh, I hope so!
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baron samedi
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 11:26 pm
Posts: 56
Location: Kyoto, Japan
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 4:49 am 
 

TheLiberation wrote:
baron samedi wrote:
I used to have long hair, then I decided to become employable.

Fuck that shit. I refuse to work anywhere where a male with long hair is not accepted. It's pure fucking sexism and yes, I'm dead serious now. There is no civilised reason why a tidy long haircut couldn't be part of a professional male look.


Well yeah, but like, someday you might be faced with a situation that reads something like: would you rather pay the rent or hold on to some vain principality? I know it sucks and whatever, but there is this place called reality where you don't get to choose other peoples values and everyone judges people on their looks before deciding to give them a salaried position.

There are probably some crappy jobs you can work with long hair, but for most entry level professional positions you've gotta be clean cut, like it or not. I guess I could have lived in my parents basement for years trying to hunt down a job where I can keep the locks, but I decided to just move on.

I will say this: choosing to sell out has gotten me so much pussy that I'm almost furious with myself that I didn't do it sooner.

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TheLiberation
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:56 pm
Posts: 570
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:24 am 
 

I honestly don't care, I'll find a way out. It's part of this fucking hypocritical, close-minded system (yes I know this sounds punk I don't care), and I refuse to adapt to it. Contrary to what plenty of people think, I find giving up your ideals in the name of being "practical" or my favourite "more mature", is in fact the most childish and immature thing on earth. Doing what they tell you to avoid consequences is what children do. Having your own values, personality and morality is part of growing up.

It's not just about long hair, it's about being yourself, plain and simple. Long hair on women is alright, long hair on men is not because of some fucking ultra-conservative idea? Oh wait, we're in the civilised 21st century, where we're all equal and with the same rights...

They can go fuck themselves with their money if it's so important to them. I'll find a way out, there are many other, in fact many of them better, ways to earn money than working in a corporation (and in fact a full-time job in a corporation is very low on my list of planned career paths).

And my favourite argument for "clean" (god this word is so pathetic in this case it hurts) short haircuts is that it looks "trust-worthy and professional". Well, suited, ultra-elegant men with completely depersonalised short haircuts are a direct connection to lies and "we'll steal everything from you the moment you expose your back" in my mind. The first "professions" that come to my mind in this case are politicians and rich businessmen. How many of them do you trust? But oh well...
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Acidgobblin
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:13 am 
 

^Dude, no-one is saying that you don't have the right to have long hair. Its just that you will probably struggle if you don't compromise. Far from being childish, the ability and willingness to compromise in regards to unimportant things (like hair length) is a good indicator of maturity and evidence that one has entered a more adult phase in life. Its just hair. Its not forced circumcision.

I went through a mega defiant stage in my late teens and early twenties before I realise that my over-focus on my appearance is actually juevenile and ultimately worthless. Good on you if your gonna stick it to em (whoever they are) but you'll come to see that no one actually gives cares about your defiance, nor your long hair and attitude because they will have moved on while your stuck in the same place. Linking your sense of self to your appearance is utterly stifling in the long run.
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TheLiberation
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Location: Poland
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 10:46 am 
 

It's not about appearance really, because for me there are many, many more important things about a person (any person) than appearance. It's about hypocrisy and ridiculously stupid and frankly completely archaic attitudes (this kind of approach is straight out of XIXth century, at best), no matter what it is related to. If someone is going to have a problem with something as simple as long hair, this pretty much says a lot about what to expect from their overall approach to things and people, and the thing you can expect here is a person I don't want to have anything to do with, not to mention work under. I honestly can't imagine someone who finds long hair unacceptable, but is otherwise an open and tolerant person, because if they have an issue with something, as you said yourself, as unimportant, I expect far worse in more important matters.

They might not care about my defiance, I won't care about them not caring, as simple as that. As I've said there are plenty of other career choices than being a depersonalised robot in a large company. I am who I am, I'm not going to abandon things which for my own personal reasons (such as the fact that I look far better for approximately ten billion reasons) are important to me, but should never difficult to accept for anyone in a civilised (and I thought the so-called "western world" enjoys bragging about being civilised very much) society. For me it's simply a part of personality, and this goes all the way from appearance to many far more important matters, and a job (and most likely a temporary one) is far from being an important enough matter to change any of that. I find being able to look at myself in the mirror to be kind of hard to substitute with anything else.

"tl;dr version": it's not just about long hair, it's about accepting things that shouldn't be a problem to anybody and being able to have your own personality. This is just a small but sometimes meaningful example. The end.
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xThe__Wizard
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:25 pm 
 

Well if you are looking at it from a business standpoint and jobs where you dress in business professional attire, long hair doesn't really fit that criteria. I don't think anyone has a "problem" but its just about following rules and procedures. Luckily they do not care where I am so I'm in the clear.
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Marag
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Location: down there where chaos prevails
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:45 pm 
 

I had long hair for 7 years until I got tired of it and shaved that shit off. I don't like being bound by things. It's just dead cells and keratin. If one day I feel like growing out, I'll do it, but, whatever, you know? Why give a shit.

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Acidgobblin
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:56 pm
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Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 8:33 pm 
 

TheLiberation wrote:
They might not care about my defiance, I won't care about them not caring, as simple as that. As I've said there are plenty of other career choices than being a depersonalised robot in a large company.


There are many jobs outside of the corporate world which require short hair. That said, I have tattoos and piercings which I neither flaunt nor overly disguise; I try and ensure my bearing is professional enough for that to be overlooked; plus it helps that I am an archivist in a state library/information archive where I interact mainly with academics, writers and other staff.

That said, I am going bald so I've embraced uber short shaved hair; perhaps I'm jealous but I don't think long hair looks good on men.
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HeathenousSeraph
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:12 pm 
 

xThe__Wizard wrote:
Well if you are looking at it from a business standpoint and jobs where you dress in business professional attire, long hair doesn't really fit that criteria. I don't think anyone has a "problem" but its just about following rules and procedures. Luckily they do not care where I am so I'm in the clear.


Tie it back, and it can look completely professional. There's really no good reason so many people consider it to be unprofessional.

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Varth
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:18 pm
Posts: 117
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:26 pm 
 

If they don't care for my long hair they shouldn't care if its short. I'm getting on in the late 20s and I'm not cutting my hair, it hasn't hurt my ability to make money and I hate the signs of forced conformity, the downtrodden employee that covers up his old punk tattoos, fuck that shit, make yourself better than them and you can look however the fuck you want to. Be their fucking boss.

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The SHM
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:54 pm
Posts: 134
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:31 pm 
 

DAMN, did this thread go weird places...
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92% of teens have cleanly divided themselves according to genres. If you're part of the 8% that doesn't give a shit why others listen to their music, then I don't care. Just enjoy the damn music.

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Scorntyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:55 am
Posts: 1050
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:52 pm 
 

I cut mine a few years ago. Went for a few years rocking the hitlerjugend look, then decided I didnt feel like myself without it and started growing it back. I cant honestly say it made a difference either way to work or getting laid. Some of you people must live in some pretty uptight places if your hair makes that much of a difference to your prospects.
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TheLiberation
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:56 pm
Posts: 570
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 1:42 pm 
 

HeathenousSeraph wrote:
xThe__Wizard wrote:
Well if you are looking at it from a business standpoint and jobs where you dress in business professional attire, long hair doesn't really fit that criteria. I don't think anyone has a "problem" but its just about following rules and procedures. Luckily they do not care where I am so I'm in the clear.


Tie it back, and it can look completely professional. There's really no good reason so many people consider it to be unprofessional.

This is my point exactly.

Varth wrote:
If they don't care for my long hair they shouldn't care if its short. I'm getting on in the late 20s and I'm not cutting my hair, it hasn't hurt my ability to make money and I hate the signs of forced conformity, the downtrodden employee that covers up his old punk tattoos, fuck that shit, make yourself better than them and you can look however the fuck you want to. Be their fucking boss.

Thanks for showing I'm not alone. :D
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