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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7741
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:27 am 
 

dystopia4 wrote:
(he's not white)

This idea baffles me endlessly. Doesn't anyone realize that "latino/hispanic" is a cultural/linguistic definition and not a racial one? The fact that the majority of Mexicans in the US are brown (mestizo/mixed race) doesn't mean that a person can't be both latino and white (or black, or essentially any other ethnicity, really). Zimmerman's mother is Cuban (one of the whiter latin nationalities) and his father is your standard white American. The man is white.
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Subrick
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Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:19 am 
 

He's of mixed race. Barack Obama too had a white parent. Would you go around calling him white?
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dystopia4
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Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:47 pm
Posts: 3523
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:52 am 
 

Subrick wrote:
He's of mixed race. Barack Obama too had a white parent. Would you go around calling him white?

This. He is half caucasian, that much is true, but his mother is hispanic. I remember reading that he does not identify himself as a white man, and it's not as if he looks like he's completely of caucasian descent.
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The_Beast_in_Black
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Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:03 pm 
 

dystopia4 wrote:
He is half caucasian, that much is true, but his mother is hispanic.

Any my point was that "Hispanic" is not really a race. Zimmerman certainly looks white to me, just not Anglo-Saxon.
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dystopia4
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Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:47 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:07 pm 
 

Whatever word you want to use to describe it, Zimmerman is half non-white.
Edit - grammar
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Last edited by dystopia4 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The_Beast_in_Black
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Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:08 pm 
 

I haven't seen his mother, so I really can't tell, but I think he pretty comfortably falls into this zone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hisp ... _Americans
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Earthcubed
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
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Location: Orocarni
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:55 pm 
 

"White" is neither an ethnicity nor a race, so using it in the same sense as Arab or African is misleading anyway. And it isn't a nationality either, like German or American.


EDIT: I should clarify, "white" is legally considered a race by the U.S. Census Bureau, but the concept of "white people" is relatively modern (within the last two to three hundred years). Celts were "white people" by modern definitions, even though they were violent, low-level barbarians in the eyes of Romans (more or less the same way European racists look at black people). The whole concept of "white people" arose purely out of racist conceptions of society, it isn't an accurate or valuable way of talking about culture.
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Desperta_Ferro
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:45 am
Posts: 602
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:06 pm 
 

What makes it harder is that America (the whole continent) was always a clusterfuck of ethnicities moving around, basically. The result is weird mixes like this guy, who challenges simple notions as "white". That happens with me too, there's photos of me in this forum, I have pale skin, yet I have syrian blood. I am white, arab, french-descent latino, martian, what?

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hells_unicorn
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 2242
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:17 pm 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
I haven't seen his mother, so I really can't tell, but I think he pretty comfortably falls into this zone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hisp ... _Americans


The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
Any my point was that "Hispanic" is not really a race. Zimmerman certainly looks white to me, just not Anglo-Saxon.


Zimmerman's mother is a Peruvian Mestizo, which is a mixture of Spanish (possibly a combination of Celtic/Gaul and Moorish ancestry, the Moors are not white) and Native American (a South American tribe, most likely either related to the Incas or a smaller neighboring nation, if you call a Native American white you might find yourself in a nasty little fight). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestizo

At best, George Zimmerman has roughly 65% white ancestry if we assume his Spanish lineage contains a heavy amount of Celtic, which doesn't look like that's the case in his mother, though it is possible there are recessive traits that are not showing on her. The fundamental problem with America is that we don't have a consistent definition of race, we just have an arbitrary standard based on what a person looks like. Western Europe is separated primarily into Nordic, Alpine, and Mediterranean sectors, each one having their own independent development and cultural quirks, and I wouldn't qualify any of them as being part of the same race. And if I remember correctly, Michelle Obama had a white great (x3) grandfather on her maternal side (though I haven't seen any reports regarding what part of Europe he came from). A lot of so-called African Americans have between 20%-45% European ancestry, and it doesn't always translate into have lighter skin.

On-Topic: As far as the so-called trial goes, I've largely been apathetic about it. I took a hiatus from Facebook because everybody suddenly became an expert while simultaneously making constant appeals to emotion and just wouldn't shut up about it. I don't like wannabe cops like George Zimmerman (I've had my fair share of run-ins with this type), but I also don't like the idea of a mob of hysterical people rewriting our laws and supplanting our justice system just because they have a chip on their shoulder. They should have gone with lesser charges such as Reckless Endangerment or Public Endangerment, both of which Zimmerman was clearly guilty of when he decided to get out of his car, and had Trayvon not been shot, he should have been charged with Assault.
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John_Sunlight
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Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:13 pm 
 

The fact that we are debating whether or not he is white means he passes for white. For comparison, another half-white person, Obama, does not pass for white. There is no debate about it.
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hells_unicorn
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 2242
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:38 pm 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
The fact that we are debating whether or not he is white means he passes for white. For comparison, another half-white person, Obama, does not pass for white. There is no debate about it.


So we should essentially ignore all of the sociological, genetic, and various other factors and simply say he passes for something because of the incredulity of SOME people in this discussion. Gotcha.

P.S. - I worked with a Mexican Mestizo man who looks almost exactly like GZ, and he had at least 50% Apache in his ancestry. The only thing separating them is the former's accent.
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OneRodeToAsaBay
The Doll With the Hideous Spirit

Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:49 pm
Posts: 2085
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:35 pm 
 

Uh, yeah, h_u. Welcome to race in America. Do take a moment to pull your head out of your creepy cracker ass and read up on concepts like 'blood quantum' and 'one drop rule'.

Lots of whiny white boys in this thread. I'll go back to my forum retirement before I end up stomping some of you crybabies into banhood.

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Derigin
Anthropophagus

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 2546
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:17 pm 
 

OneRodeToAsaBay wrote:
Lots of whiny white boys in this thread.

Could you be any more condescending?

In any case, closing this thread. It's ran its course.

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