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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 9592
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:40 pm 
 

LanceCriminal already got banned, by the way.
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Burnyoursins
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:59 am
Posts: 953
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:22 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:
I'm disappointed, burnyoursins, everyone deserve to live, what the fuck was that? At least the dude wasn't a white man wearing a fedora eh?


I didn't say he didn't deserve to live, and I apologize if it was taken that way. I'm not in any way condoning what was done. The fact is, there wasn't enough evidence to convict, and now there's a witch hunt going after this guy. It's just being used as another reason for people to push their own agenda. Zimmerman is a scumbag, absolutely. But he doesn't deserve to die, either. The law's on his side, I don't think he went out there with the intention of shooting holes in a teenager, regardless of race.

I had a path when I was 17. *shrug* I went to school, did well, yadda yadda. Again, not saying the kid deserved to die. But when I was 17, I would have done the smart thing and took off like a bat out of hell. By the age of 17, you should be able to deduce properly. You're not a child anymore. You're right on the cusp of adulthood.
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SleightOfVickonomy wrote:
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 18887
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:09 pm 
 

Burnyoursins wrote:
But when I was 17, I would have done the smart thing and took off like a bat out of hell. By the age of 17, you should be able to deduce properly.


Using "what I would have done" doesn't count as a real argument. I don't think we can make any conclusion about what kind of kid he was - not any conclusion worth a damn, anyway.
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FasterDisaster
OMG WAT DOES THIS CAPS LOCK KEY DO

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm
Posts: 6341
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:03 pm 
 

I think Zimmerman should at least be charged with manslaughter. He went pretty overboard, I think. Martin was just a bro heading someplace with some candy. I mean dude, c'mon!
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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 880
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:43 pm 
 

A couple of scattered thoughts:

1. No one seems to know exactly what happened, except Zimmerman.

When you compile the evidence, it seems the two individuals involved in this incident made mistakes. Any portrayal of either one of those chumps as "an innocent", "an angel", "a killer", "a hero" is ridiculous. Zimmerman has that profile of the typical loser who wanted to be "someone". In his case, wanted to play cop/vigilante like the movies. Trayvon Martin was a wannabe criminal.

2. Race probably didn't play a part in the actual incident.

Although I will never be completely sure as I wasn't in those people's heads at the time. I have seen no evidence Zimmerman is a racist. If anything, Trayvon Martin may have been the racist.

3. It is however pretty fucking obvious that racism, bigotry and discrimination has played a part in the public opinion of this case

...and perhaps, even in the legal proceedings. Take a look at this survey, for instance, to see how opinions differ based on ethnicity. Much like the OJ Simpson case, the gaps are just too enormous to be mere coincidences. America (and the rest of the world) really need to do a better job with such issues. Way too many people applauding or condemning this verdict seem to be influenced by bigotry.

4. Presumption of innocence is beautiful, but it can be a bitch.

Everyone knows Trayvon Martin was a thief, or at least an accessory to jewelry theft. But there's one problem. At the time, the people who knew couldn't prove it. And so it is that Martin walked out of this, probably laughing his ass off. But the irony is pretty bad for him because this same presumption of innocence is what's allowing his killer from walking free now.

Now, a lot of people are whining about the use of this incident as an attempt to "demonize" Trayvon Martin. They can go fuck themselves. Nobody needs to demonize him, it's pretty fucking obvious he was a fucked up kid trying to walk the gangsta path. But nobody cared back then. His parents didn't care he was walking this path when he was alive. The school didn't do much when they found the jewelry, nor did the police. These are the people who should have done something to try and set him straight, but they didn't. Instead, it had to be some random goofball in another incident. Another loser, this time a wannabe vigilante who (correctly) guessed a wannabe thug was walking in his pathetic, homogenous neighborhood.

People who want to paint a portrait of Trayvon Martin as an innocent kid are terribly missing the point: his death could probably have been avoided had he learned some basic social skills. Like: don't fucking jump on people just because they are following you. But because he had gotten away with every shitty things he was doing so far, he probably figured that's how things work. And now he's dead because he fucked with the wrong goofball.
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Unifying_Disorder
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:52 pm
Posts: 983
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:15 am 
 

Quote:
...in his pathetic, homogenous neighborhood.


Actually, his neighborhood is not homogenous. According to it's own website, Sanford, FL is 57% white, 30% black, and 21% Hispanic.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:25 am 
 

Lots of ridiculous victim blaming in there....
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:52 am 
 

Riffs wrote:
Now, a lot of people are whining about the use of this incident as an attempt to "demonize" Trayvon Martin. They can go fuck themselves. Nobody needs to demonize him, it's pretty fucking obvious he was a fucked up kid trying to walk the gangsta path.

:roll:
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Seriously, why ban me??????? That topic had nothing wrong with it! Theres something wrong with you i can tell you! You're immoral banning of my account! Anyways, i'm creating my own metal arcives.

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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 880
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:19 pm 
 

Unifying_Disorder wrote:
Quote:
...in his pathetic, homogenous neighborhood.


Actually, his neighborhood is not homogenous. According to it's own website, Sanford, FL is 57% white, 30% black, and 21% Hispanic.


Homogeneity is not synonymous with race.
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Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9533
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:10 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Riffs wrote:
Now, a lot of people are whining about the use of this incident as an attempt to "demonize" Trayvon Martin. They can go fuck themselves. Nobody needs to demonize him, it's pretty fucking obvious he was a fucked up kid trying to walk the gangsta path.

:roll:


"Did you see what she was wearing? Slut was asking for it, getting drunk at that frat party like she did wearing a mini-skirt too I mean come on!"
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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MetalCuresHeadaches
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:38 pm 
 

Riffs wrote:
Victim blaming and CNN stories


There's a large group of people out there that seem to ignore the fact that George Zimmerman's little John Wayne fantasy is the only reason that Trayvon Martin is dead. What Martin may have done at school or if he had a criminal record had no bearing on the moment in question. In that moment, he was walking home from a convenience store. Had George Zimmerman been watching Netflix instead of driving around "guarding" the neighborhood, Martin would still be here and no one would care.

And as for social skills: Does someone with proper social skills follow somebody they don't know through a neighborhood in the middle of the night to "get an address" of where they stop, as Zimmerman claimed in his first interview? I don't think so.
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Unifying_Disorder
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:52 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:58 pm 
 

Quote:
Had George Zimmerman been watching Netflix instead of driving around "guarding" the neighborhood, Martin would still be here and no one would care.


Do you know that he was driving around "guarding" the neighborhood or is that an assumption? By saying that, you automatically imply that he was out looking for trouble. We don't know that. He claimed that he was out buying groceries. Maybe he was, maybe not. I can't prove he was lying.

Nonetheless, I don't think what he did was wise. The best thing you can do with suspicious activity is to be a good witness, nothing more.
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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:22 pm 
 

Good point. There is no reason to assume Zimmerman was looking for trouble. When he said "they always get away" he was talking about bargains.
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HUMANBEANSv2
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:51 pm
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:52 pm 
 

at least trayvon's father was able to pay for a sickass tribal sleeve from the generous donations his family has received since..

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Earthcubed
Peregrinus sine aetate

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
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Location: Orocarni
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:05 pm 
 

He was a neighborhood watch captain. By definition that means he is supposed to keep an eye out for his neighborhood every time he is in it. Neighborhood watch groups don't always (and in fact rarely) "patrol" their neighborhoods, the idea is that everyone agrees to keep the neighborhood safe.

Primarily by reporting suspicious activity and suspected criminals, not following said suspected criminals like a dumbfuck.


HUMANBEANSv2 wrote:
at least trayvon's father was able to pay for a sickass tribal sleeve from the generous donations his family has received since..


HUMAN BEANS
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Napero
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Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:16 pm
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:22 pm 
 

And what would the legal status of the neighborhood watch organizations be? "I was supposed to..." would a very bad excuse if I stabbed someone to death over here, even if I agreed to keep an eye on the house next door, which I very much believe the limit of their juridical rights is. Keep an eye on, call the cops if necessary, etc., while actually having even less authority over anything than rent-a-cops, and that's saying something. Yes, it can be useful, but giving any weight to that in any legal situation like this undermines many of the values of an organized society. Zimmermann was obviously acting as a vigilante, no matter how the final few seconds of the incident went, and not getting jail time for his actions is utterly stupid. He initiated the situation that led to a youngster's death. Netflix would actually have saved the boy.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:49 pm 
 

The best part of this story is Zimmerman's brother worrying about... vigilantes and people taking the "law into their own hands" with regards to George Zimmerman's family.

...Yes, he actually said that, in those words, without any irony whatsoever. Amazing. Watch for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx8byRU15Xk
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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VoidApostle
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:00 pm
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Location: Within The Vacuum of Infinity
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:28 pm 
 

Irony aside, that's a reasonable concern. Does Zimmerman himself have it coming to him? Sure, but someone with the misfortune of being associated with him doesn't.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:26 pm 
 

Seems appropriate:
Image
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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TheOldOne
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:05 pm
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Location: Stalling at the present time
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:29 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Seems appropriate:
Spoiler: show
Image


Maybe it's just because the picture is so low-res, but it looks to me like all of them have shit trigger discipline .
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HUMANBEANSv2
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:51 pm
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:16 pm 
 

Napero wrote:
And what would the legal status of the neighborhood watch organizations be? "I was supposed to..." would a very bad excuse if I stabbed someone to death over here, even if I agreed to keep an eye on the house next door, which I very much believe the limit of their juridical rights is. Keep an eye on, call the cops if necessary, etc., while actually having even less authority over anything than rent-a-cops, and that's saying something. Yes, it can be useful, but giving any weight to that in any legal situation like this undermines many of the values of an organized society. Zimmermann was obviously acting as a vigilante, no matter how the final few seconds of the incident went, and not getting jail time for his actions is utterly stupid. He initiated the situation that led to a youngster's death. Netflix would actually have saved the boy.


the prosecution decided to indict him on 2nd degree murder, which would be very hard to prove

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Rild
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:04 am 
 

Zimmerman did not initiate the situation. People carrying loaded handguns don't start fistfights. And if Zimmerman was actually stalking Martin like a gazelle on the Serengeti fully intending to shoot him, he would have done it long before getting his head smacked around for 40 seconds. 40 seconds is long for a street fight and what evidence there is suggests that Zimmerman was losing the whole time, and was completely unprepared for that escalation of the situation. At any moment during the fight Martin could have found his gun and shot him, it is just luck for Zimmerman that he is alive and Martin is not. The only thing you can blame Zimmerman for really is following Martin in the first place, but the fact that Martin reacted so violently to being followed (the 'creepy ass cracker' conversation with the illiterate 'friend'/girlfriend suggests that homophobia and racism helped fuel his anger) shows that he was somebody who deserved to be profiled. Somehow that part of the plot is being lost - how can you cry injustice about being profiled as a criminal when you behave like one? If anything Zimmerman did not 'profile' Martin enough; Martin turned out to be much more violent and aggressive than he expected, so he should have kept more distance. The reason Zimmerman was not even charged in the first place was because this was, and is, an open/shut case of self defense, Martin has only been turned into a civil rights martyr by black race hustlers and dumb white college kids going through a 'social justice' phase who think highly of their critical thinking skills but as it turns out are just as susceptible to emotional manipulation and misleading factoid memes ("Trayon was shot for being black in the wrong neighbourhood") as any obese Fox News watching tub of shit who thinks they're continuing the legacy of George Washington by watching Sean Hannity. On a cultural level this debacle shows us how the left is degenerating into empty noise and blatantly racial politics, under the thin guise of 'social justice'. The shrill rhetoric comparing Trayvon Martin to Emmett Till only serves to remind us how bullshit the causes taken up today are compared to the more legitimate grievances of the past. The so-called 'anti-racist' movement at this point has nothing at all to do with justice, it is about inflaming resentment and hatred against white people.
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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:22 am 
 

Race hustling in action ^
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soul_schizm
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:55 am
Posts: 643
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:12 am 
 

Morrigan wrote:
The best part of this story is Zimmerman's brother worrying about... vigilantes and people taking the "law into their own hands" with regards to George Zimmerman's family.

...Yes, he actually said that, in those words, without any irony whatsoever. Amazing. Watch for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx8byRU15Xk


He's family, the bias is obviously going to be overwhelming and extreme.

I don't see why his comments are interesting. Frankly the only odd thing is that they keep giving him the stage. What's he going to say, "I think my bro might have done something wrong?" Nay.

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Burnyoursins
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:59 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:40 am 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
Race hustling in action ^


Well, as much as about 90% of his post was totally retarded, it's absolutely true that people are using this incident to further their own agenda. *shrug* And a lot of them, too.
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The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
SleightOfVickonomy wrote:
...no one still knows what it's supposed to be about.

Well, I reckon there's a pretty good chance it'll be about gory tits.

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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
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Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:53 am 
 

Morrigan wrote:
failsafeman wrote:
:roll:


"Did you see what she was wearing? Slut was asking for it, getting drunk at that frat party like she did wearing a mini-skirt too I mean come on!"


Just so you know, the "victim blaming!" outrage only works when the person is actually a victim, not an aggressor like Trayvon Martin.

Used in the current context, it just looks terribly silly and overlooks not only Martin's actions but the fact he was let down time and time again by his parents, his school and the authorities.

Wanna avoid such tragedies? Stop with the fake outrage and start looking at some important social issues for the disenfranchised youth. They deserve better than useless sympathy if you want things to change.
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Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

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Riffs
Metalhead

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Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:36 am 
 

MetalCuresHeadaches wrote:
Riffs wrote:
Victim blaming and CNN stories


There's a large group of people out there that seem to ignore the fact that George Zimmerman's little John Wayne fantasy is the only reason that Trayvon Martin is dead.


No, it isn't. He's dead because he got in a physical altercation with the guy. Which was an extremely foolish thing to do.

MetalCuresHeadaches wrote:
Riffs wrote:
Victim blaming and CNN stories


What Martin may have done at school or if he had a criminal record had no bearing on the moment in question. In that moment, he was walking home from a convenience store.


No, in that moment, he was physically fighting someone.

The rest only helps illustrate his character. It's unfortunate that no one taught him better.

MetalCuresHeadaches wrote:
Riffs wrote:
Victim blaming and CNN stories
Had George Zimmerman been watching Netflix instead of driving around "guarding" the neighborhood, Martin would still be here and no one would care.

And as for social skills: Does someone with proper social skills follow somebody they don't know through a neighborhood in the middle of the night to "get an address" of where they stop, as Zimmerman claimed in his first interview? I don't think so.


I think I pretty clearly established I don't think Zimmerman is the brightest bulb around either. There were two dumbfucks that night. Unfortunately, most people have decided to draw a line in the sand and pretend one of those guys was a hero and the other a zero, the object of their sympathy depending on their biases. That is a terribly misguided line of thought and pretty much explains why incidents like this happen and why they will continue to do so.

There were all kinds of ways for this tragedy not to happen but neither of those two did anything right.
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Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

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MrMcThrasher II
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:05 am 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Seems appropriate:
Image

No, that's completely irrelevant.
Earthcubed wrote:
He was a neighborhood watch captain. By definition that means he is supposed to keep an eye out for his neighborhood every time he is in it. Neighborhood watch groups don't always (and in fact rarely) "patrol" their neighborhoods, the idea is that everyone agrees to keep the neighborhood safe.

Primarily by reporting suspicious activity and suspected criminals, not following said suspected criminals like a dumbfuck.


HUMANBEANSv2 wrote:
at least trayvon's father was able to pay for a sickass tribal sleeve from the generous donations his family has received since..


HUMAN BEANS

Oh wow.
I'm curious though, is he (HUMANBEANSv2) right? I really haven't dived into the story like I had wanted to recently, and that seems pretty random.
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:27 am 
 

Rild wrote:
The only thing you can blame Zimmerman for really is following Martin in the first place, but the fact that Martin reacted so violently to being followed (the 'creepy ass cracker' conversation with the illiterate 'friend'/girlfriend suggests that homophobia and racism helped fuel his anger) shows that he was somebody who deserved to be profiled. Somehow that part of the plot is being lost - how can you cry injustice about being profiled as a criminal when you behave like one?


How was he behaving like a criminal? You think that calling him a "creepy ass cracker" is criminal behavior? How was he homophobic and racist, and how could Zimmerman identify this? Criminal behavior is inherently defined as committing criminal infractions, not swearing on your cell phone.

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dystopia4
Veteran

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:17 pm 
 

I think the media has handled this case really horribly. Before I go any further I'd like to point out that I'm not on Zimmerman's side and I do think he deserved to go to jail for manslaughter. When it broke the media (with the exception of Fox News, who did it just as bad in the other direction) made it look like a white man (he's not white) followed and shot (no mention of Trayvon attacking Zimmerman) a black kid. They chose the most flattering pictures to use of Trayvon and the most unflattering to use of Zimmerman. They dug into Zimmerman's past possibly criminal and probably racist behaviour, but largely glossed over the stuff that would make Trayvon look bad. Now I don't think it shines bad on his character that he smoked weed, I smoked weed when I was a lot younger than that and it's really not that much of an uncommon thing for normal people to do in this day and age and I the public is starting to believe less and less of the propaganda surrounding pot. However, it didn't come out until after the trial that Trayvon was almost certainly involved in some capacity with a theft.

I also think the 'skittles and iced tea' argument is kind of silly, because it is not as if an unarmed person isn't capable of attacking someone. Now Zimmerman should have listened to the 911 operator and stayed in his fucking car, and I understand that someone following you could make you on edge and more prone to lash out at them, but all evidence and eyewitness accounts shows that Martin physically attacked first and did indeed injure Zimmerman. I think a lot of people have a hard time believing this because the media made Martin out to look like an angel (and before someone twists my words around, I'm in no way saying he was a bad kid) and made Zimmerman look like a nazi (again, I do think he's a fucking idiot).

It's absurd how much the media has played up the racial angle. It is highly likely that Zimmerman profiled Trayvon because he was black, and he does deserve criticism for that. However, I don't think he shot him because he was black. I think George pulled the trigger because he was too cowardly (the defence totally tried to make him out to be the softest man in America) to fight back in something he could have easily avoided by not being an idiot wannabe-vigilante and just staying in his car. And the amount of people who think Zimmerman got off because he was a light skin man who killed a black teen is absurd. If you bother looking in to it, he got off because Florida has retarded self defence laws. There shouldn't be racially-driven protest over the acquittal. This shouldn't have ballooned into a race relations crisis. Also, to the people who are saying things like "it's now open season to murder black boys in America", come on, really? It's not and it hasn't been for quite some time.

Zimmerman's brother is possibly one of the biggest idiots in America.
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Riffs
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:50 pm 
 

dystopia4 wrote:
I think the media has handled this case really horribly. Before I go any further I'd like to point out that I'm not on Zimmerman's side and I do think he deserved to go to jail for manslaughter. When it broke the media (with the exception of Fox News, who did it just as bad in the other direction) made it look like a white man (he's not white) followed and shot (no mention of Trayvon attacking Zimmerman) a black kid. They chose the most flattering pictures to use of Trayvon and the most unflattering to use of Zimmerman. They dug into Zimmerman's past possibly criminal and probably racist behaviour, but largely glossed over the stuff that would make Trayvon look bad. Now I don't think it shines bad on his character that he smoked weed, I smoked weed when I was a lot younger than that and it's really not that much of an uncommon thing for normal people to do in this day and age and I the public is starting to believe less and less of the propaganda surrounding pot. However, it didn't come out until after the trial that Trayvon was almost certainly involved in some capacity with a theft.

I also think the 'skittles and iced tea' argument is kind of silly, because it is not as if an unarmed person isn't capable of attacking someone. Now Zimmerman should have listened to the 911 operator and stayed in his fucking car, and I understand that someone following you could make you on edge and more prone to lash out at them, but all evidence and eyewitness accounts shows that Martin physically attacked first and did indeed injure Zimmerman. I think a lot of people have a hard time believing this because the media made Martin out to look like an angel (and before someone twists my words around, I'm in no way saying he was a bad kid) and made Zimmerman look like a nazi (again, I do think he's a fucking idiot).

It's absurd how much the media has played up the racial angle. It is highly likely that Zimmerman profiled Trayvon because he was black, and he does deserve criticism for that. However, I don't think he shot him because he was black. I think George pulled the trigger because he was too cowardly (the defence totally tried to make him out to be the softest man in America) to fight back in something he could have easily avoided by not being an idiot wannabe-vigilante and just staying in his car. And the amount of people who think Zimmerman got off because he was a light skin man who killed a black teen is absurd. If you bother looking in to it, he got off because Florida has retarded self defence laws. There shouldn't be racially-driven protest over the acquittal. This shouldn't have ballooned into a race relations crisis. Also, to the people who are saying things like "it's now open season to murder black boys in America", come on, really? It's not and it hasn't been for quite some time.

Zimmerman's brother is possibly one of the biggest idiots in America.


It's totally true that the media coverage was shit. That was to be expected in this era, I guess.

The case was always gonna have a racial angle because that's the state of things right now, unfortunately. It doesn't matter how the media play it, surveys show that black people and white people have drastically different opinions on the case. When you have such gaps, that tells you America still has a long way to go as far as solving racial issues. And of course, in such a divided society, the media will play up the divisive angle. It's just good for ratings.

I quoted your whole post because even though there are small parts I disagree with, it's good to see another balanced view here instead of the typical bullshit that seeks to glorify either of the two numbnuts involved in that incident while vilifying the other!
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:10 pm 
 

Well Zimmerman came out of hiding last Thursday...to help rescue a family that was trapped in their overturned SUV.

I don't know what it says about me, but I actually started to laugh a little bit when I read this, just because it's the absolute last thing you would have expected to have happen involving Zimmerman at this point. Before I saw it was on ABC News's site, I thought it was a parody headline, an Onion-esq satire meant to mock popular opinions of him. But nope, it's legit.
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The SHM
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:36 pm 
 

Funny how CNN is consistently suffering from "Missing White Girl Syndrome" yet when it benefits them to show a case about a white guy killing a black kid (wait, he was Hispanic, not white? Well he's half white!!) they'll blow it out of proportion.
As I once read:
"Hence why white liberals are often the most hilariously racist people. They don't even know they're being racist and they're racist when they think they're trying not to be!"

Anarchists focus more on the fact that blacks kill other blacks because it's actually indicative of society as a whole= whites indeed kill other people for money (it's called "war", one even went on about a decade ago), and most people who say that it's not this way are privileged whites who never grew up with racism or poverty or blacks who "got lucky." If anyone honestly took the time to dig past stereotypes that "blacks are too stupid to function in society", they'd see the problem. We do exist in a system where African-native people are looked down upon, largely live or come from 1st word poverty, and are not expected to be intelligent or beneficial to society. If you're told most of your life that being smart is stupid, you're not going to make it anyway, and that you're ugly and disgusting and a whole fuckton of other slurs, what else are you going to try?
And hell, look at it from this point of view. "Gangsta rap is so cool, it's cool to be black. I want to fuck ho's and flash jewelry around all day." Again, not given much room to expand there, are you? You're automatically expected to act a certain way, listen to a certain type of music, and do certain things.
Bringing this very site into the fray, there's absolutely nothing stopping a large black population from lenjoying heavy metal... except for the stereotype that blacks only listen to rap and gospel music. And speak in ebonics, and sag their pants, and generally look like a thug on the street because the general stereotype is that blacks aspire to be "gangsta thugs" that will inevitably get shot in some drive-by unless they're dealing drugs or breaking into homes to steal stuff to sell to buy drugs. Don't ask why they need to buy and sell drugs, why they've been forced to resort to such things- they're just muddy little idiots with the intelligence of children who need liberal protection, of course! Certainly has nothing to do with this system at large. And how dare you even suggest that- the president is black so SHUT UP! Because the president defines the system. And who cares if a black kid is shot- he's just going to grow up to be some drug dealer or welfare recipient.
The most depressing (and why I brought up the site): they listen to bad music anyway. Stop 'em from making more of it and making bad "musicians" rich!

This racial situation in America is interesting to say the least.

I believe that anyone can actually "make it" in this system if they tried... but I'm not dumb. I also know that it is harder for some people to make it than others and that a depressingly large number of people believe that I'm deluding myself for thinking that.
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Rild
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:33 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
Rild wrote:
The only thing you can blame Zimmerman for really is following Martin in the first place, but the fact that Martin reacted so violently to being followed (the 'creepy ass cracker' conversation with the illiterate 'friend'/girlfriend suggests that homophobia and racism helped fuel his anger) shows that he was somebody who deserved to be profiled. Somehow that part of the plot is being lost - how can you cry injustice about being profiled as a criminal when you behave like one?


How was he behaving like a criminal? You think that calling him a "creepy ass cracker" is criminal behavior? How was he homophobic and racist, and how could Zimmerman identify this? Criminal behavior is inherently defined as committing criminal infractions, not swearing on your cell phone.

:durr: he assaulted Zimmerman! Assaulting people is what we call criminal behavior. This is the inevitable conclusion unless you have done creative enough mental gymnastics to convince yourself that Zimmerman started the fight while carrying a loaded handgun (and proceeded to get his ass kicked until shooting Martin). Yes, Martin was not doing anything criminal when he was walking down the street, but the fact that he attacked Zimmerman is proof enough that he was the kind of person who deserved to be profiled as a criminal. Merely being followed by someone for a few blocks is not a good reason to pound them into the pavement. Is this logic really that hard to follow? I did not insinuate that Zimmerman identified homophobia or racism in Martin's behavior, your comprehension of that sentence is lacking. If you watched the testimony from Jeantel, you would remember the part about the "creepy ass cracker" conversation where she stated that Martin called Zimmerman a 'creepy ass cracker' and feared he could be a rapist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x78artldN2Y. If we turn the tables here so to speak, Martin 'profiled' Zimmerman using a racial epithet and projected homosexual desires on him. Given this information about Martin's reaction to Zimmerman it is not much of a stretch to imagine that part of Martin's motivation for assaulting Zimmerman was homophobic / racist anger. Its a bit of irony in this case that Martin has been sainted by the PC left even though his physical confrontation of Zimmerman was very likely a violent instance of gay bashing; it would have been quite something if Zimmerman was actually gay. Then we would find out which minority group grievances win out and sit atop the ladder of PC orthodoxy, black or gay. If I had to guess I'd say black since the "check your privilege" types don't seem to care much about the extreme and often violent homophobia endemic in black cultures, both in North America and Africa.
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Varth
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:36 pm 
 

I work up in the north Memphis hood 4 days a week and its utter chaotic madness and everyone seems to be intensely stupid or insane. I get called "white motherfucker" multiple times a day, black thugs walk up to me and dance in front of me or make fun of white redneck voices or any attempt at communication that isn't in street slang. There are shootings, stabbings, bad driving fatalities, constant police activity, utter bedlam. Honestly its hilarious, and being up close and personal with what I perceive as a slow screaming nightmarish descent into hell gives me zero hope for the future of America. The good news is no one up there gives a flying fuck about that case.

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The SHM
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:09 pm 
 

Varth wrote:
I work up in the north Memphis hood 4 days a week and its utter chaotic madness and everyone seems to be intensely stupid or insane. I get called "white motherfucker" multiple times a day, black thugs walk up to me and dance in front of me or make fun of white redneck voices or any attempt at communication that isn't in street slang. There are shootings, stabbings, bad driving fatalities, constant police activity, utter bedlam. Honestly its hilarious, and being up close and personal with what I perceive as a slow screaming nightmarish descent into hell gives me zero hope for the future of America. The good news is no one up there gives a flying fuck about that case.

Proving my post fully. You're not going to breed a successful people if all they believe is that they can only be stupid or violent. Hence why whites grew out of that phase about 600-700 years ago. Well maybe not why, but the point I'm trying to make is that for as long as African-Americans have a self-destructing culture, they're not growing out of anything anytime soon. Whites did because they traded Dark Age chaos for Christian-based imperialism.
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John_Sunlight
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:29 pm 
 

Quote:
This is the inevitable conclusion unless you have done creative enough mental gymnastics to convince yourself that Zimmerman started the fight while carrying a loaded handgun (and proceeded to get his ass kicked until shooting Martin)


People with guns get over-confident and start fist fights they shouldn't, feeling secure, knowing they have a back up. Zimmerman created the situation on purpose. That he started the fight is self-evident.
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Evil_Johnny_666
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:30 pm 
 

Riffs, we don't know shit of what actually happened. Did Zimmermann tried to get hold of him or Martin directly jumped at him for being creepy? We don't know at all.

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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:31 pm 
 

Banned:
-Rild
-The SHM

RIP. In memorial:

Rild wrote:
The only thing you can blame Zimmerman for really is following Martin in the first place, but the fact that Martin reacted so violently to being followed (the 'creepy ass cracker' conversation with the illiterate 'friend'/girlfriend suggests that homophobia and racism helped fuel his anger) shows that he was somebody who deserved to be profiled. Somehow that part of the plot is being lost - how can you cry injustice about being profiled as a criminal when you behave like one?

Rild wrote:
If we turn the tables here so to speak, Martin 'profiled' Zimmerman using a racial epithet and projected homosexual desires on him. Given this information about Martin's reaction to Zimmerman it is not much of a stretch to imagine that part of Martin's motivation for assaulting Zimmerman was homophobic / racist anger. Its a bit of irony in this case that Martin has been sainted by the PC left even though his physical confrontation of Zimmerman was very likely a violent instance of gay bashing; it would have been quite something if Zimmerman was actually gay.

The SHM wrote:
Proving my post fully. You're not going to breed a successful people if all they believe is that they can only be stupid or violent. Hence why whites grew out of that phase about 600-700 years ago. Well maybe not why, but the point I'm trying to make is that for as long as African-Americans have a self-destructing culture, they're not growing out of anything anytime soon. Whites did because they traded Dark Age chaos for Christian-based imperialism.

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Riffs
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:27 am 
 

Evil_Johnny_666 wrote:
Riffs, we don't know shit of what actually happened. Did Zimmermann tried to get hold of him or Martin directly jumped at him for being creepy? We don't know at all.


There are unknowns, I agree. Based on the information available, it does seem however like the jury made the right call. It seems highly unlikely that Zimmerman, as an armed man contacting the police would seek physical confrontation. It's possible, I guess, but I have a hard time imagining it.

If Martin was so afraid, why didn't he call 911 instead of wasting his time speaking with that unrefined chick?

The behavior of both men was off that night, but it does seem like Trayvon Martin initiated this fight. Trayvon Martin's antisocial past probably sealed the deal for the jury as well and it's tough to argue against that.

The only good that can come out of this now is to get guns off regular citizens and be more careful when teenaagers display fucked up attitudes at school and home.
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