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Sick6Six
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:01 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:27 pm 
 

Edit: Well my questions have been answered and the thread has become more of a discussion about vinyl which is cool so carry on!
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Last edited by Sick6Six on Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Eh_Timeghoul
Be gentle, I was... Born This Way

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:35 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:58 pm 
 

it's music, go fucking listen to it! that shit isn't even rare.......maybe if it was rare i could see some hesitation to play it-but this isn't the case

and stack them upright in their coats, like at the store, cause once you get a decent amount it can be quite weighty and that's not good for whatever ones you stick at the bottom

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the_raytownian
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Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:09 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:00 pm 
 

get plastic sleeves (there's several types and thicknesses. I suggest researching what to get according to your needs) and store the paper sleeve with the vinyl behind the jacket, otherwise you're going to get hella split seams and ringwear. Better yet, go and do that, but then also buy some quality inner sleeves to keep the vinyl in, especially if you have printed paper inner sleeves, because those are likely to get damaged holding the record...

Always store them this way, even if you don't have a lot. and keep the opening of the paper sleeve turned into the edge of one of the plastic seams, not the opening. This will reduce the amount of dust getting on the vinyl... that's what I like to tell myself, anyway.

Ideally, I like to keep all the original paper material (including inner original inner sleeves, even if generic whites ones) inside the jacket, with the vinyl inside of a plastic-lined/otherwise fancy-shcmancy inner sleeve that I stick in the plastic dust cover behind the cardboard jacket.

Record collecting is a FULL-TIME JOB.


Also, IDEALLY, you'd buy two copies of every single record you own!!! One to keep in pristine, sealed condition, or otherwise unplayed. and one to play (CAREFULLY, DAWG!). Preferably only for archival purposes.
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Sick6Six
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:22 pm 
 

haha, 2 completely different answers! I have noticed the ones I get shipped are often packaged similar to how you described so the jacket doesn't get split. I did get a sealed Urgehal picture disc from thenedrecords that had a dented corner, a couple scratches/imprints on the jacket and the bottom of it is already splitting, don't think I will be ordering from them again, quite annoying. My friend also said I should buy 2 of every record, but that's just a little on the crazy/my wife would kill me side :-D Thanks for the info
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the_raytownian
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:53 pm 
 

I was really only joking about buying duplicates (I mean, I would if I could, but that's just a "perfect world" scenario that doesn't exist. I don't even have all my vinyl in dust sleeves because I haven't got the money to put into that stuff... it's just what I'd consider ideal).

I do try to keep my new (meaning not previously-owned) records very well taken care of, though. Same for exceptionally rare or valuable stuff and personally-significant items.
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Subrick
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Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:03 pm 
 

The two vinyls I've bought were both in the plastic when I bought them. My Darkness Descends LP was used, so it was re-wrapped in new plastic, while my Killers picture disc is both in mint condition and in the original packaging.
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Dooders
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Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:00 am
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:19 am 
 

You never really wanna stack vinyl vertically and just make sure they are upright and not slipping on each other. The vinyl itself is actually really durable, but try not to get it dirty with fingerprints, dust, or whatever. Keep a brush handy to clean it between spins or whenever you remember to. I don't have plastic sleeves on some of my used vinyl which is already beat up or easily replaceable, but like raytownian, I take care of all my newer records and the ones which are really special to me.

Vinyl has made a HUGE comeback in the past few years with represses coming out left and right from all the bigger bands and labels after witnessing its popularity grow exponentially so I don't think holding on to a newer press hoping to sell it later is worth a shit anymore. Just enjoy it.

I used to over value some of my records and not listen to them as much because they were somewhat pricey or rare, but you just have to take care of them like anything else. Most records are replaceable, so unless you have some 1st press Burzum or others from the 2nd wave of Black Metal records (and of course some exceptions) don't worry about the value/rarity so much.

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Sick6Six
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:20 am 
 

Sounds about right, I have picked up some pretty rare/limited stuff, but mostly used already. I ordered one record from a few years back that was limited to 100 on red and 250 black and surprisingly got the red version even though it said nothing about color at the store so that was a nice surprise. I don't really need to use them as an investment to make maybe 50-100$ in a number of years... So yeah I will just enjoy them and keep them as safe as I can. I need to buy a new shelf that's good for storing tons of CDs and vinyls at the same time though. Thanks for the input again :)
Edit: oh yeah I have a signed Leprosy LP from Chuck and the Leprosy era band, but I'm keeping that :-D
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drterror666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:49 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:37 am 
 

I'm pretty wary when buying limited vinyl. I never really buy any of these modern reissues, like the stuff from Back To Black, because they're not really that limited i.e. they keep chucking out the same shit on a different coloured vinyl. I view proper limited vinyl as stuff that was on the original record label or came out close to the release date of the original. I usually keep all the limited stuff in metal LP boxes, but I feel they are still for playing and not hoarding. What's the point of locking them away in a vault?

I had a look at my limited vinyl database the other day and nearly screamed when I saw how much was on it. I have been collecting since the early 80's though! I think my very first limited vinyl was the original release of Venom's Black Metal album, with the poster and lyric sheet.

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Sick6Six
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:03 am 
 

Yeah I agree, I got a few things that I already have on CD that are some of my favorite albums. Picked up the splatter vinyls of the first 3 Immortal albums from 2010 I think, I just think they look really cool :) I picked up that Burzum/Aske mainly because I've never owned a factory copy of it and I've listened to it so many times. Even though I think Varg is a POS and hate his music today I cannot deny the greatness of his early stuff. I also got Cirith Gorgor's first album on picture vinyl (love the art and it's pretty old and limited to 300) Got a few others like "Azaghal - Of Beasts and Vultures" and I lucked out getting the new Horna on red vinyl which people are already paying way to much for, but I'm keeping mine. It is quite addicting, they are much more fun than CDs I just can't play them in my car! I suppose I will post a pic of all the crap I got recently once it all arrives :beer:
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SadisticGratification
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:00 pm
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Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:47 pm 
 

I guess this would be the place to ask considering we're talking about Vinyl. I know Vinyl is an analogue format and I actually work with audio myself so I know a lot about digital and analogue audio so my question doesn't really concern the technicalities of Vinyl but more so can you really hear the difference between say a Vinyl record versus a digital lossless WAV file or CD? assuming the players for both formats were equal in output.

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the_raytownian
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:09 pm 
 

^depends greatly on both the vinyl itself (mastering) and the setup.

a lot of records actually sound like shit compared to the masters... but I will always stand by my belief that a 45 RPM maxi-single with fat-ass grooves is the absolute best-sounding physical format available to the public.

I don't believe in the stupid notions of "vinyl magic" or "warmth" or "surface noise adds character" (your record isn't "supposed to" sound like that, kiddo), I just know that I have heard the awesome sound that the 12", 45 RPM, wide-groove format can provide first hand, and I have found a lot of 12" singles are far superior to both CD singles and single tracks on albums (both CD and LP) in terms of fullness, volume and clarity.

I don't think it caries over to LP territory quite as readily, though. I also believe sound quality depends more on the playback system than anything when it comes to both physical (analog and digital) and file-based media.

I think the need for higher-than-CD-quality in digital audio is largely psychological, because it'd be almost surely impossible for human ears to distinguish the difference (that said, ripping CD's to a low-bitrate format will noticeably alter the sound). I also think a lot of people who insist that LP's sound better than CD's as some sort of law of the universe probably only ever listen to their CD's in Winamp through tinny computer speakers.
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Scorntyrant
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:55 am
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:43 pm 
 

drterror666 wrote:
I'm pretty wary when buying limited vinyl. I never really buy any of these modern reissues, like the stuff from Back To Black, because they're not really that limited i.e. they keep chucking out the same shit on a different coloured vinyl. I view proper limited vinyl as stuff that was on the original record label or came out close to the release date of the original. I usually keep all the limited stuff in metal LP boxes, but I feel they are still for playing and not hoarding. What's the point of locking them away in a vault?

I had a look at my limited vinyl database the other day and nearly screamed when I saw how much was on it. I have been collecting since the early 80's though! I think my very first limited vinyl was the original release of Venom's Black Metal album, with the poster and lyric sheet.


There must be something wrong with my ears, because to me a record sounds just the same regardless of how many were made :p
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Scorntyrant
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:55 am
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:28 am 
 

Relevent:

http://thewire.co.uk/in-writing/essays/ ... nyl-bubble
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the_raytownian
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:38 am 
 

not really "relevant" unless you're the sort of douche who only buys vinyl with the idea that you'll be able to sell it later.
I'm not interested in selling my collection, because I collected it for myself, not as part of some yuppie-cunt investment plan of saving up for my "summer home in Michigan wine country".

That's not to say there might never be a time where I'd have to sell my collection, but it's never been my intention, or a factor I base purchases on. It's more like pathetic collector-lust and feeling like I have some kind of (actually worthless) status symbol that I keep under glass than anything related to monetary value, which is, to me, at least slightly more pathetic and lame than my own motivations.

Granted, I can admit that I like the smug feeling of getting an inflated-value record in the 50-100 dollar range for $4 or something, but I also know a deal like that comes only once, and trading the OBJECT OF DESIRE itself for a big profit just seems lame and stupid to me. I've seldom been interested in paying large amounts of money for vinyl (or any format) because I know I don't intend to sell it later, see? Buyer's remorse is a bitch, and I've been able to avoid it (fairly) well over the years, because knowing I'm buying records for myself means I don't waste my time with bullshit inflated values unless I "NEED" a certain record, because I'm well aware of the fact that there's no "future profit" coming when I spend $40+ on an LP (which I've only done maybe once before, and I've always sort of hated myself for doing it).

I will also admit that I obsessively check values on my records, but mostly because I like to convince myself that I am not a sucker when I pay retardo money for a record and it stays at/near/higher in value than what I paid. I'm not interested in making money so much as being tight with the little bit of money I already have, to the point that I sort of obsess over whether or not I wasted money on that LP I bought over three years ago.

FWIW, I think RSD is super-lame, as is 95% of the selection available. It's a day designed for desperate sucker object-fetishists (moi) and yuppie scum. F that noise. But even the article pointed out that most folks already realize this shit. I'd rather keep the record and jerk off to that instead, thanks. Dead presidents aren't that sexy.
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Scorntyrant
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:24 am 
 

Well, you and I agree, but the fact is that if you look at the trading board on the NWN forum for example there are a lot of people out there buying one copy to listen to and one copy to sell later on. A lot of people who will hold onto KVLT stuff to trade for other kvlt records in a few years. There was a joke going round for a few years which illustrates this issue:

"I was in Paris and I met Willy from Mutiilation working at a baguette stand. I bought one because I was hungry and another to put on Ebay".

The fact that there are established jokes about this shit shows how prevalent it is.

My personal limit is $100 AUD on a record. I was sorely tempted by a copy of Boards of Canada "Geogaddi" going for $120 recently, but I cant bring myself to do it. I have 300+ LP's, and they are for listening, not for hoarding like a squirrel saving nuts for the winter. I'm not so poverty stricken that I have to think twice about spending $30 or $40 USD on a record, considering the bizarre exchange rate shenanigans. If the AUD goes back down to 85 cents against the USD I might think twice, but as it stands that's like an hour and a half wages, so not a big deal in the scheme of things. Like hell I'd ever sell my collection unless the sky was falling entirely.

But anyway, I thought it was curious that the OP was fetishising the format and assuming that it intrinsically held value. Any Burzum pressing other than the DSP or Misanthropy ones are worth fuck all, precisely because there are lots of them floating round. Nothing wrong with that, in fact it's great that there are affordable pressings. But it's foolish to think that they are some sort of family heirloom to be preserved against the ages.
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SadisticGratification
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:00 pm
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Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:42 am 
 

the_raytownian wrote:
^depends greatly on both the vinyl itself (mastering) and the setup.

a lot of records actually sound like shit compared to the masters... but I will always stand by my belief that a 45 RPM maxi-single with fat-ass grooves is the absolute best-sounding physical format available to the public.

I don't believe in the stupid notions of "vinyl magic" or "warmth" or "surface noise adds character" (your record isn't "supposed to" sound like that, kiddo), I just know that I have heard the awesome sound that the 12", 45 RPM, wide-groove format can provide first hand, and I have found a lot of 12" singles are far superior to both CD singles and single tracks on albums (both CD and LP) in terms of fullness, volume and clarity.

I don't think it caries over to LP territory quite as readily, though. I also believe sound quality depends more on the playback system than anything when it comes to both physical (analog and digital) and file-based media.

I think the need for higher-than-CD-quality in digital audio is largely psychological, because it'd be almost surely impossible for human ears to distinguish the difference (that said, ripping CD's to a low-bitrate format will noticeably alter the sound). I also think a lot of people who insist that LP's sound better than CD's as some sort of law of the universe probably only ever listen to their CD's in Winamp through tinny computer speakers.


Human ears can hear between certain frequencies from the low end of 10Hz upto 40KHz at the high end, everything after that is completely redundant and in fact if you are recording digitally or through an analogue set up the frequencies usually stay the same in any case, professional high definition audio is done at much higher frequencies but the frequencies that analogue and digital are sampled at are the same.

The area where analogue and digital really differ is in the sample rate. Audio and sounds are obviously analogue signals themselves, so when I speak I create a sound wave of a certain frequency. That could be represented on a graph and if you think of analogue input or output you have to remember how much it can vary. Digital signals are very different however because as you know it can only be one or a zero, nothing more. So to represent the audio signal digitally you have to sample the audio at a certain bit rate (usually between 128Kbps and 256Kbps for MP3) thats how many bits per second can I use to recreate the signal, so you can't perfectly recreate the analogue signal digitally but you can come close. It's hard to convey through text but look at this diagram;
Image
The stairs like feature is the digital signal and the that's how an audio sample is stored digitally and then a smoothing filter recreates the analogue signal using this digital signal. The Y axis is frequency and the X axis is sample rate.

That's really just the science behind the different kinds of signals, so in theory analogue will always be superior and that is probably why you feel 12" 45RPM is the best format. I just have never heard any Vinyl ever so I just would like to see what people think. I'm quite happy with my CD's they usually sound excellent. Also if you're going to rip music digitally from CD's or another source I suggest using FLAC because it's a lossless format and for the love of god stay away from MP3 :lol:

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drterror666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:49 pm
Posts: 69
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:44 am 
 

Scorntyrant wrote:
Any Burzum pressing other than the DSP or Misanthropy ones are worth fuck all, precisely because there are lots of them floating round. Nothing wrong with that, in fact it's great that there are affordable pressings. But it's foolish to think that they are some sort of family heirloom to be preserved against the ages.


+1

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the_raytownian
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:09 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:31 pm 
 

Scorntyrant wrote:
"I was in Paris and I met Willy from Mutiilation working at a baguette stand. I bought one because I was hungry and another to put on Ebay".


:lol:

Also, werd. FWIW, I try to stay as far away from NWN and similar forums as possible, but I know "the type".... That type being a big part of why I avoid the whole "culture" of NWN and similar labels all together.
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Scorntyrant
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:59 am 
 

well, given I'm signed to NWN it's sorta hard to avoid :)

Good label with some asberger King fans haha
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Sick6Six
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:01 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:54 am 
 

Yeah I'm not really planning on reselling any of them, but I still want to keep them in good condition... You have to be careful just taking off the shrink wrap that you don't bend anything. I kind of prefer when they aren't shrink wrapped to begin with.
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