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Earthcubed
Peregrinus sine aetate

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 2604
Location: Orocarni
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:07 pm 
 

:lol: Well yes in human terms, but arguably not in the context of the lifespan of a universe. I don't know, I can't remember when those two things (CMBR fading to nothing and space between galaxies expanding faster than light can cross it) are projected to happen, but potentially there could be a long period afterwards between the above scenario and heat death.
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Earthcubed
Peregrinus sine aetate

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
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Location: Orocarni
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:12 am 
 

This is cool.


http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... trial-life


It's amazing we've found this many (and almost certainly more that are still unconfirmed) while barely even looking, and yet some people think life must be rare. Not intelligent life, mind you, but life period.
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Grimbeard
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:09 pm
Posts: 78
Location: South Carolina
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:29 pm 
 

"Interestingly the way science operates is it says 'give us one free miracle and then we can explain everything'. Well if science gets one free miracle, then I think every ideology ought to be given the same advantage. So I think that the miracle of the Big Bang is an unlikelihood so preposterous that it could almost be seen as the limit case for credulity. What I mean by that is if you can believe that you can believe anything! I mean if you believe that the universe sprang from nothing in a single instant from an area considerably smaller than the cross section of a gnats eyebrow then I'd like to talk to you after the show about purchasing a large bridge across the Hudson River that's been in my family for generations." The great Terence Mckenna

I suggest listening to . That quote is about the 50 minute mark. When everyone is finished listening to that, listen to everything by Terence Mckenna and Robert Anton Wilson :)
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Cursarion
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:56 am
Posts: 646
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:36 pm 
 

^ Fuck off with your pseudoscience, please.
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BlindTortureKill
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:57 am
Posts: 1205
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:17 pm 
 

Grimbeard wrote:
"I mean if you believe that the universe sprang from nothing in a single instant from an blah blah blah"


Still this nonsense? I could understand it if it was the third post, but it's been mentioned quite a few times now what the big bang theory actually entails.

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hunglikemouse
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:25 pm
Posts: 256
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:34 pm 
 

Grimbeard my friend, I think the speaker sold YOU "the large bridge across the Hudson River that's been in her family for generations."

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Grimbeard
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:09 pm
Posts: 78
Location: South Carolina
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:15 pm 
 

I just can't agree with your miracle. There is a reason it is called a "theory", Nothing can be 100% proven.
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Conservationism
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:48 pm
Posts: 431
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:02 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
That should imply that the matter which composes the known universe has always existed in some form or another.


A negation of time itself.

A better question is: why?
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Xlxlx
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 5446
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:37 am 
 

Grimbeard wrote:
I just can't agree with your miracle. There is a reason it is called a "theory", Nothing can be 100% proven.

Yes. But did you know that gravity is also a theory? Also, please refrain from using the word "miracle" here. It's silly.
Conservationism wrote:
Xlxlx wrote:
That should imply that the matter which composes the known universe has always existed in some form or another.

A negation of time itself.

A better question is: why?

You mean a reason why the universe exists? There is no "why". There is only "how". Besides, Corimngul already adressed the issue of matter being impossible to create or destroy in the previous page (clue; I was only partially right about that).
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Cursarion
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:56 am
Posts: 646
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:19 am 
 

Grimbeard wrote:
I just can't agree with your miracle.

Do you see someone else calling it a miracle?

Grimbeard wrote:
There is a reason it is called a "theory", Nothing can be 100% proven.

DUH. Everything good is called a theory. Something being called the absolute truth should always make you wary. What is your point?

And, since we're posting obvious things now, have you heard that 1+1=2?
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Last edited by Cursarion on Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:24 am, edited 3 times in total.
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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 7695
Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:20 am 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
What I find most fascinating about space expanding at an ever-increasing rate is that it means at some point there won't be any way for future societies to surmise that the Big Bang ever happened. Space will eventually expand at a rate faster than light can cross it, meaning future societies won't be able to see distant galaxies (or in the really long run, other stars). If you can't see distant points of light, then you can't measure their movement. If you can't measure the movement of distant points of light because you can't see them, then you won't know that everything in the universe is moving away from you. If you don't know that, then you can't reason backwards that at the beginning everything was much more compact. Meanwhile, the cosmic microwave background radiation left over from the Big Bang will eventually fade and redshift to the point where it is indistinguishable from every other background source of radiation. Without those two pieces of observational evidence (microwave background and galaxies receding in all directions), there will be no reason to have a Big Bang theory. We're basically living in the only time period where it is even possible to know how it all started.


It also means future societies---no matter how technologically advanced they become---will never be able to have a working knowledge of the size and scope of the universe beyond ours circa 1750 or so. That was when astronomers and philosophers first theorized that some of the nebulae in the sky were in fact other Milky Way's (and I don't think there was any consensus in favor of this theory until the 1930's).


And what a glorious epoch that will be, for that show fucking sucks.

Good to see Corimngul crawl out of the shadows to address this thread.
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Cursarion
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:56 am
Posts: 646
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:26 am 
 

Conservationism wrote:
Xlxlx wrote:
That should imply that the matter which composes the known universe has always existed in some form or another.


A better question is: why?

That's the worst possible question. Literally no one can answer that.
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Napero
GedankenPanzer

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:16 pm
Posts: 8515
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:30 am 
 

Grimbeard wrote:
I just can't agree with your miracle. There is a reason it is called a "theory", Nothing can be 100% proven.

I don't have any layman's evidence of the big Bang, but the above is clear evidence of you being either a creationist, or simply swamped in their propaganda. No one else ever uses that argument, because all it shows is complete lack of understanding of pretty simple things.

Say hello to Baby Jesus for me when you don't meet him after you die.
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XcKyle93
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:04 pm
Posts: 283
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:37 pm 
 

There's a startling lack of scientists/engineers in here!
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The Red in the Sky is Ours and select songs off With Fear... is the compositional height of death metal, if not all of metal. Better than ten Super Bowls.


Ah yes, the death metal phenomenon that is the Super Bowl.


Last edited by XcKyle93 on Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Conservationism
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:48 pm
Posts: 431
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:20 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
You mean a reason why the universe exists? There is no "why". There is only "how".


Many would disagree. Why are you trying to exclude an avenue of inquiry?
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maxxpower
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:04 pm
Posts: 399
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:49 pm 
 

XcKyle93 wrote:
There's a startling lack of scientists/engineers in here!


I'm an astronautical engineer though I don't know much about astrophysics. I mostly know about the space environment(plasma, debris, outgassing) and orbits(orbital dynamics). I'm more of a structures and propulsion person.

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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 7695
Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:06 pm 
 

Conservationism wrote:
Xlxlx wrote:
You mean a reason why the universe exists? There is no "why". There is only "how".


Many would disagree. Why are you trying to exclude an avenue of inquiry?


Because that isn't remotely the point of the thread? Go bait somewhere else.
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Napero
GedankenPanzer

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:16 pm
Posts: 8515
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:19 pm 
 

XcKyle93 wrote:
There's a startling lack of scientists/engineers in here!

Nah, there are plenty on the board. They just get very tired of going through this once every two months, and seeing the Jesus freaks leave the thread just as Jesus freaky as when they came in. You can't fix missing brain.
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Conservationism
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:48 pm
Posts: 431
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:30 pm 
 

Acidgobblin wrote:
Heat death does not refer to some sort of fiery termination point but a state of maximum entropy whereby no transfer of energy will occur due to the even dispersal of matter throughout the universe(thermodynamic equilibrium).


Mathematical equality, in other words.

It's a terrifying thought.... the universe basically dies from boredom.
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mindshadow
Echoes in an empty cranium

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 1970
Location: Panopticon
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:56 am 
 

I wondered if the universe was created after a singularity event where anti matter and matter cancelled each other out, but there was more matter - which was left to form the universe.

But then I read matter and anti matter didn't exist before the big bang - they weren't the cause.
Could our universe be the result of two or more universes colliding? Could it be what we describe as the big bang happens "all the time" and is nothing really special or unusual?
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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4347
Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:42 am 
 

metaphysics :-P
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hunglikemouse
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:25 pm
Posts: 256
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:23 pm 
 

Napero wrote:
XcKyle93 wrote:
There's a startling lack of scientists/engineers in here!

Nah, there are plenty on the board. They just get very tired of going through this once every two months, and seeing the Jesus freaks leave the thread just as Jesus freaky as when they came in. You can't fix missing brain.

Very true!
I've actually read quite a few of their posts and had loads of questions answered.

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Cursarion
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:56 am
Posts: 646
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:14 pm 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
:lol: Well yes in human terms, but arguably not in the context of the lifespan of a universe. I don't know, I can't remember when those two things (CMBR fading to nothing and space between galaxies expanding faster than light can cross it) are projected to happen, but potentially there could be a long period afterwards between the above scenario and heat death.

Again at the second one:
RonimuZ wrote:
I've understood that gravity will hold certain things together, and it's the distance between these things which grows. I remember seeing something like that on a very large scale, matter (galaxy groups / clusters) forms thin strings, and that the strings are surrounded by vast bubbles of expanding void.

I'm not an expert, but seems to me that if a balloon analogy is used, this would mean matter is something like a spider web inside the balloon which expands. What happens to the cobweb then? It tightens, stretches and eventually starts snapping. I wouldn't know what really happens on the universal scale - whether the expansion beats gravity or not, as in the distance between objects close by growing faster than the gravity between them brings them closer, but I wouldn't say it's likely that the distances grow evenly between everything.

I think this represents distribution of matter in the local universe (or possibly distribution of dark matter, the webpage is bit unclear about that):
http://www.mpa-garching.mpg.de/HIGHLIGHT/2002/cr.gif
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Earthcubed
Peregrinus sine aetate

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 2604
Location: Orocarni
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:31 am 
 

Actually, there's a scenario similar to the "snapping web" analogy you brought up called the Big Rip. If space continues to expand but more importantly the rate of its expansion continues to accelerate infinitely (that is, it only speeds up), then theoretically there should be a point at which the actual space in atoms expands to the point that atoms essentially get torn apart. In other words, the force/dark energy expanding the universe overcomes the force(s?*) holding atoms together.



See here: http://hubblesite.org/hubble_discoverie ... iverse.php
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