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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 2063
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 3:12 pm 
 

^ A while back, a friend of mine gave me a heart-felt blanket apology for all the idiotic, selfish, and hurtful shit he'd done when we were kids, and said he was surprised I was still his friend, considering. It felt great to hear him say it. Definitely showed he'd grown up. He likes a bit of metal.

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Cthulhu_Fhtagn
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:32 pm
Posts: 345
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 6:33 pm 
 

I am very introverted, and obviously listen to metal. Unsurprisingly, I was pretty social in my childhood, but once I got into high school I pretty much clammed up. Coversations (especially small talk :grumble:) to me are pretty useless, because it is just people trying to fill in an awkward silence with pointless information that neither person really cares about. I generally don't speak unless I have something I really want to say. For instance, right now I am surrounded by other people in college, but instead of talking to anyone I am just in my zone listening to Nile :headbang: and working on a science paper.
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IT'S THE SAME INVERTED AS REGULAR?! MY BRAIN IS BROKEN! TOTAL SATAN!

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Atrocious_Mutilation
KITTY SO PUFFY

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:51 am
Posts: 1685
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 6:35 pm 
 

I think I've been introverted since my childhood, but I seem to recall being a very talkative child before it just 'hit' me around adolescence. I wouldn't say I have social anxiety, since I haven't been given an official diagnosis, but I've always had confidence issues because of a speech disorder I've had since around 5 years old and much later when I developed mild Tourette's, but I didn't get an official diagnosis until last year.

Because of my speech disorder I prefer not to talk but I will be talkative at uni when it's necessary, as long as I can get some time to be alone afterwards, preferably at home studying or listening to music, though I've been doing less music listening lately. Speaking from a closed-minded sense, I don't get how extraverts can deal with socialising every day and night. It seems to labourious.

Oddly enough, I've been having my doubts with introversion-extraversion as such a black and white topic. I think of myself as an introvert but people around me have told me that I have extraverted tendencies. It makes me think that introversion is more of a spectrum than a clearly marked label. Personality theory seems to have adopted the idea well, so why can't it be like that.
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xThe__Wizard
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 845
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:42 pm 
 

Grave_Wyrm wrote:
^ A while back, a friend of mine gave me a heart-felt blanket apology for all the idiotic, selfish, and hurtful shit he'd done when we were kids, and said he was surprised I was still his friend, considering. It felt great to hear him say it. Definitely showed he'd grown up. He likes a bit of metal.


Yeah I probably should do that if I ever see certain people again but I mean I was like 17-18. I was really dumb, into being "morbid" and didn't think of the consequences. Looking back some of the stuff is funny but some things are extremely cringe worthy. It really goes to show how much listening to negative music and being around negative images can affect you because I wasn't always a jerk until I started listening to metal and punk. Of course my friends didn't help me and my social surroundings at school weren't the best so I can't blame that entirely.

I feel some people grow out of some things. I used to be like some elitist jerkwads but I'm def more chill now. And I can branch out to individuals who aren't metal fans either.
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Nochielo
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 1512
Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:22 pm 
 

On the subject of introvert vs extrovert, I've been accused many times of being extremely introverted, especially in high school. I go through the social protocol fairly well, I crack jokes, do small talk and all that. However, I often turn down people when I get invited to social events in general, because I never get invited to anything that I consider even slightly interesting. I've been told that "[I] don't like anything". The way I see it, I don't like the boring crap you like.

Maybe 3 or 4 people I know share my interests, one at a time (as in "that's my gaming friend, that's my computer programming friend, etc."). People think I'm trying to be mysterious or pretentious (gotten these a couple times) because I never talk about the things I like, it's extremely annoying to say I like death metal and spend the next hour answering questions about satanism and debunking common misconceptions about metal. Often times this leads to a religious conversation which brings up my atheism in a country where the word itself is cause for justified hatred. I've heard all kinds of half-assed "arguments" against metal and atheism and have grown very tired of my words going far over the heads of people. This is all very sad, because I very much enjoy meeting worthwhile people, those who can understand and even disagree with me so long as it is all backed by intelligence and a genuine desire to establish healthy relations with others.

In general, I think I avoid socializing because I don't see much intelligence and open-mindedness in most and because I don't see how going to a pub can improve my chances of getting in contact with those rare individuals.
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"Beauty is the substance distilled
The rest of what you could not hold
You'd not take the splendor instilled
And I just couldn’t ask for more"

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Mike_235
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:43 am
Posts: 101
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:33 pm 
 

Nochielo wrote:
On the subject of introvert vs extrovert, I've been accused many times of being extremely introverted, especially in high school. I go through the social protocol fairly well, I crack jokes, do small talk and all that. However, I often turn down people when I get invited to social events in general, because I never get invited to anything that I consider even slightly interesting. I've been told that "[I] don't like anything". The way I see it, I don't like the boring crap you like.

Maybe 3 or 4 people I know share my interests, one at a time (as in "that's my gaming friend, that's my computer programming friend, etc."). People think I'm trying to be mysterious or pretentious (gotten these a couple times) because I never talk about the things I like, it's extremely annoying to say I like death metal and spend the next hour answering questions about satanism and debunking common misconceptions about metal. Often times this leads to a religious conversation which brings up my atheism in a country where the word itself is cause for justified hatred. I've heard all kinds of half-assed "arguments" against metal and atheism and have grown very tired of my words going far over the heads of people. This is all very sad, because I very much enjoy meeting worthwhile people, those who can understand and even disagree with me so long as it is all backed by intelligence and a genuine desire to establish healthy relations with others.

In general, I think I avoid socializing because I don't see much intelligence and open-mindedness in most and because I don't see how going to a pub can improve my chances of getting in contact with those rare individuals.


If you don't see how going out and socializing can improve your chances of meeting intelligent and open-minded people then I would seriously put into question your own intelligence because I think it's obvious meeting more people is naturally going to increase the likelihood of finding someone who you'd like to befriend or date.

What method do you currently use to seek out like-minded individuals? Or have you written off the human race entirely? Also - Why can you only hang out with people of a certain intelligence or people who share the same hobbies as you do? You can't really know what you like unless you go out and experience all the things people have to offer, don't limit yourself to people who are like you, that's boring.

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Burnyoursins
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:59 am
Posts: 953
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:34 am 
 

I don't know. It's really hard to say, I think it would really depend on the type of metalhead you're looking at. I could definitely see a correlation between social anxiety and a reasonable amount of people on these forums (not a slight against any of you, you're all mostly fine people.) I personally love being in a crowd. I'd be at the bar all the time if they'd all let me assume total control over the music. *laughs* Canada Day, Taste Of Edmonton, anything with a big crowd of folks just trying to have a good time, I love it. I think it really depends heavily on the "group", let's call it, of metalheads. The ones you find going to the shows all the time, I don't think there's too much social anxiety going on there. The ones you see going to shows maybe once in a blue moon, preferring to stay home and listen to DSBM while surfing the MA forums for 12 hours, well, you could probably call that a correlation.

It's pretty "cringe-worthy" that some of you are actually blaming your negative behavior on the "negative" music you listen too. I may have a relatively lax moral code, but my listening habits have never influenced my personality. I'm wacky, and a little bit off the wall, but I'm a really happy guy. You go through life always looking for people who are your exact carbon copy, and you're going to be one lonely dude. Obviously there has to be a correlation of interests at some point, but variety is the spark that keeps a friendship (or an intimate relationship) going.
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The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
SleightOfVickonomy wrote:
...no one still knows what it's supposed to be about.

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Nochielo
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 1512
Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:48 am 
 

Mike_235 wrote:
If you don't see how going out and socializing can improve your chances of meeting intelligent and open-minded people then I would seriously put into question your own intelligence because I think it's obvious meeting more people is naturally going to increase the likelihood of finding someone who you'd like to befriend or date.

Seeing that I don't like parties or social gatherings (I find them incredibly draining) then I don't see why I have to attend those. This is why I mentioned pubs, because much like bars or discotheques (that is the English word for it, right?), it attracts exactly the kind of people I have no interest in. If you don't want to meet geeks, don't go to Comic Con.

Considering I live in a fairly remote area (roughly a two hour drive to get to a show) I have limited options.

Mike_235 wrote:
What method do you currently use to seek out like-minded individuals? Or have you written off the human race entirely?

That's the problem. I have no way of meeting people who share my interests, aside from everyday life as a college student. I haven't written off humanity, I know there are great individuals out there (I know a few) but these are very rare and it doesn't mean we can get along.

Mike_235 wrote:
Also - Why can you only hang out with people of a certain intelligence or people who share the same hobbies as you do? You can't really know what you like unless you go out and experience all the things people have to offer, don't limit yourself to people who are like you, that's boring.

Don't get me wrong, I hang with people who I barely know regularly, but I feel these interactions are hollow because there is no bonding. Perhaps I have unrealistic standards as to what constitutes a healthy relation with someone, but to me there has to be common ground somewhere. I can spend time with just about anyone, talk and whatever but these interactions don't make me feel invested. A friend must (among other things, of course) share a passion with me.

The only level of intelligence that I demand is to know the value of learning, not from me, mind you, I have nothing to teach. I also value open-mindedness to accept the learning (both mentioned in my previous post).

What I like, is something I can learn on my own. The inherent differences between individuals are valuable (if treated properly) but surely you can't be close to anyone with whom you've absolutely nothing meaningful in common.
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last fm
"Beauty is the substance distilled
The rest of what you could not hold
You'd not take the splendor instilled
And I just couldn’t ask for more"

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mindshadow
Echoes in an empty cranium

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 1966
Location: Panopticon
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 5:39 am 
 

Nochielo wrote:
but surely you can't be close to anyone with whom you've absolutely nothing meaningful in common.



I don't believe this, and think it's a dangerous statement in further isolating yourself - you can find friends in the most unlikely places, don't push people away before you've given them a chance.
Someone who is very rich, yet unhappy, could be comforted by the words of someone who has nothing material to offer.

Even if you don't see someone very often, you can develop an understanding and compassion toward each other, though you come from different walks of life. Surely when you can do this you have developed wisdom, which knows no distinction.
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pastafarian
Liberalestest Hitler Jugend

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:29 pm
Posts: 579
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 8:51 am 
 

Introverts have superior intellect, therefore we like superior music. No mysteries here. :roll:

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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4256
Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 9:12 am 
 

Atrocious_Mutilation wrote:
I think I've been introverted since my childhood, but I seem to recall being a very talkative child before it just 'hit' me around adolescence. I wouldn't say I have social anxiety, since I haven't been given an official diagnosis, but I've always had confidence issues because of a speech disorder I've had since around 5 years old and much later when I developed mild Tourette's, but I didn't get an official diagnosis until last year.

Because of my speech disorder I prefer not to talk but I will be talkative at uni when it's necessary, as long as I can get some time to be alone afterwards, preferably at home studying or listening to music, though I've been doing less music listening lately. Speaking from a closed-minded sense, I don't get how extraverts can deal with socialising every day and night. It seems to labourious.

Oddly enough, I've been having my doubts with introversion-extraversion as such a black and white topic. I think of myself as an introvert but people around me have told me that I have extraverted tendencies. It makes me think that introversion is more of a spectrum than a clearly marked label. Personality theory seems to have adopted the idea well, so why can't it be like that.

Wow, your post could pretty much as well be about me, except that I was never diagnosed with mild tourettes (even though that could very well be something I have based on what I've heard about the disorder). Unique snowflakes and stuff, eh?
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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 4894
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:32 pm 
 

MARSDUDE wrote:
I used to wash people's feet at the beach, just for the fuck of it.

Now I can't even look people in the eyes.

I laughed so hard. Good job, sir.
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Nochielo
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 1512
Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:11 pm 
 

mindshadow wrote:
Nochielo wrote:
but surely you can't be close to anyone with whom you've absolutely nothing meaningful in common.



I don't believe this, and think it's a dangerous statement in further isolating yourself - you can find friends in the most unlikely places, don't push people away before you've given them a chance.
Someone who is very rich, yet unhappy, could be comforted by the words of someone who has nothing material to offer.

Even if you don't see someone very often, you can develop an understanding and compassion toward each other, though you come from different walks of life. Surely when you can do this you have developed wisdom, which knows no distinction.

Again, maybe I have unrealistic standards to what friendship is but the way I see it, there must be something shared. Not something material as your example suggests, but something deeper. You can meet tons of nice people, I do but they are not my friends. I can understand and feel empathy for someone and they don't have to be a friend. I have friends I haven't seen in years, some with checkered pasts and such. The common denominator is that there is a sharing of something personal. If I considered everyone I like or have had a good time with a friend, I would have dozens of them.
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"Beauty is the substance distilled
The rest of what you could not hold
You'd not take the splendor instilled
And I just couldn’t ask for more"

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ravagingthemassacred
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:30 am
Posts: 160
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 2:44 pm 
 

If judging from an angle of grouping people by music interests, it's pretty obvious that among metalheads as a group, introversion / melancholy or depressive tendencies / anxiety is much more common when compared to other forms of music. What other genre of music has an entire subgenre such as suicidal/depressive black metal? Hatred, isolation, despair, and other similar emotions that are common themes amongst the anxious and/or introverted are extensively touched on throughout metal, probably most prominently in black and doom.

This doesn't mean that it's evidence that, say, pop music fans as a whole have lower tendencies toward introversion and/or anxiety. It might just mean that people drawn in by metal have more tendencies to use music as a coping mechanism/medication when compared to pop music (or whatever) fans. Or maybe I'm completely off in assuming that metal's high incidence of these themes reflects a purposeful intention of catharsis/emotional medication, rather than just an outpouring of whatever goes on in their heads. Is it a case of music reflecting our general interests and mind-topics, or of music intentionally servicing emotional needs?

I've always been deeply introverted and developed strong social anxiety as a young child. I was first drawn to metal for it's outsiderness. I didn't really know exactly what it was and had heard very little, but I had the cultural knowledge that it is an outsider music. I started to listen to it and grew to love it far beyond, and many times exclusive, of it's quality of being "outsider music". Since starting to listen to it I've had periods of extreme agoraphobia and social anxiety, along with a complete lack of agoraphobia and moderate to low social anxiety. Introversion is a deep part of my nature, so that's a constant. The entire time a love for metal has stayed constant (with a few exceptions of depression unallowing me to experience enjoyment or interest). My attraction towards more depressive metal has also stayed pretty constant.

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Exigence
Age: 28 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
Posts: 794
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:23 pm 
 

I think it's such a cheat to corner yourself with all these limiting traits (introverted, shy, social anxiety, etc) and then say "...and I've always been drawn to this music." It becomes a cyclical self fulfilling prophecy. I think people develop weird superiority disorders when living in isolation. There's no extra wisdom or nobility in doing it. You're afraid of your own damn species and you tell yourself you're better to make it fit. Add a soundtrack of angry and depressive music already coated with an 'outsider acceptance' reputation and the whole mindfuck just gets twice as severe.

Bottom line is you need to know how to function with people. Be it purely mental health, personal success or just practicality. They outnumber your little world. Learn how to adjust and match the tempo of others. You don't have to agree with everybody, just be pleasant. You'll be better off.

And your taste in music is as important to someone else as what brand hand soap you have on the kitchen sink. The only way to define yourself is by how you affect others. That is the totality of human existence. You will sink or swim in life based on other people.

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Burnyoursins
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:59 am
Posts: 953
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 4:48 pm 
 

Absolutely agreed, Exigence. Well said.
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My last.fm:
http://www.last.fm/user/OurFatherChaos

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
SleightOfVickonomy wrote:
...no one still knows what it's supposed to be about.

Well, I reckon there's a pretty good chance it'll be about gory tits.

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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 2063
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:09 pm 
 

Exigence wrote:
You will sink or swim in life based on other people.

Exactly. For example, a guy I know estranges everyone with everything you've described, self-superiority included. Now hardly anyone wants anything to do with him and he blames all of them, refusing to compromise for civil society. Socially inept, that one. He thinks metal is stupid because it's too negative.

Ironically, and this really frustrates me, the overconfident are shown to live categorically "happier" lives. That is to say that the mechanic shown in experimenting with facial expressions (behavior facilitating emotions) can be used in reverse. Theoretically you could improve your mood by "talking yourself happy". However, it's important to remember, also, that type A personalities are at higher risk of heart attacks, hypertension, and nervous breakdowns. :lol:

In these experiments, different facial expressions were held to gauge the results. People tended to begin to emotionally respond in coordination with their facial expression. To further control the experiment, a researcher would affix golf tees to the subject's brows, and the subject's task was to try to make their ends touch. Most people reported feeling some variety of angry afterward.

I get a mixture of claustrophobic and tickled by holding my face in a false smile mask, but it does have at least a funny aspect which improves my mood a jot. When I grimace, I do trend toward brooding. There's something to be said for mindfulness, without the "blissful monk" connotation that's like a straight jacket on genuine emotion.

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OneSizeFitzpatrick
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:56 pm
Posts: 712
Location: A smoldering ruin with wi-fi, Chechnya
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 9:57 pm 
 

the_raytownian wrote:
HellishHound wrote:
I do have anxiety/social anxiety problems, though they are close to non-existent since I started smoking grass on a regular basis. People can say what they want to it but it helped/helps my mental state tremendously.


Funy enough, weed just makes me social anxiety even worse unless I am in a group of trusted friends. I hate beinghigh in public or around a bunch of strabngers. It's fucking hellish for me.

totally agree, weed has almost universally made me exponentially more socially retarded.. and god forbid I have to answer the phone while high... Jesus Christ, I remember one time the neighbor down the street called during a weekday (parents and siblings were at school/work and I was home for some reason, I can't remember why but I had just finished a bowl at this moment), I answered the phone and she must have known I was a little "off" because she said something along the lines of "just hang up and i'll leave a message on the answering machine" so I did.. calls back and I instinctively pick up the phone again (not realizing what had happened literally seconds ago.. my short term memory is non-existent in the first 10 minutes after smoking), there's this nervous laugh and I play it off like I meant to do this and I fully understand what's going on... calls again and I pick up for the THIRD time and she repeats herself in that really slow, do-you-understayunhnd-what-my-voice-is-saying type way. I still get that embarrassed feeling in my gut every time I think about this incident and this happened over 3 years ago.
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Mike_235
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:43 am
Posts: 101
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:33 am 
 

Nochielo wrote:
Mike_235 wrote:
If you don't see how going out and socializing can improve your chances of meeting intelligent and open-minded people then I would seriously put into question your own intelligence because I think it's obvious meeting more people is naturally going to increase the likelihood of finding someone who you'd like to befriend or date.

Seeing that I don't like parties or social gatherings (I find them incredibly draining) then I don't see why I have to attend those. This is why I mentioned pubs, because much like bars or discotheques (that is the English word for it, right?), it attracts exactly the kind of people I have no interest in. If you don't want to meet geeks, don't go to Comic Con.

Considering I live in a fairly remote area (roughly a two hour drive to get to a show) I have limited options.

Mike_235 wrote:
What method do you currently use to seek out like-minded individuals? Or have you written off the human race entirely?

That's the problem. I have no way of meeting people who share my interests, aside from everyday life as a college student. I haven't written off humanity, I know there are great individuals out there (I know a few) but these are very rare and it doesn't mean we can get along.

Mike_235 wrote:
Also - Why can you only hang out with people of a certain intelligence or people who share the same hobbies as you do? You can't really know what you like unless you go out and experience all the things people have to offer, don't limit yourself to people who are like you, that's boring.

Don't get me wrong, I hang with people who I barely know regularly, but I feel these interactions are hollow because there is no bonding. Perhaps I have unrealistic standards as to what constitutes a healthy relation with someone, but to me there has to be common ground somewhere. I can spend time with just about anyone, talk and whatever but these interactions don't make me feel invested. A friend must (among other things, of course) share a passion with me.

The only level of intelligence that I demand is to know the value of learning, not from me, mind you, I have nothing to teach. I also value open-mindedness to accept the learning (both mentioned in my previous post).

What I like, is something I can learn on my own. The inherent differences between individuals are valuable (if treated properly) but surely you can't be close to anyone with whom you've absolutely nothing meaningful in common.


Bars, clubs, etc attract people who want to meet others, and that's it. Don't behave as though only a certain type of person goes to these places. To me, it sounds like you're trying to rationalize your own skewed perception of people with these tired old stereotypes. Perhaps I'm wrong - sure, I don't know you, and I certainly don't want to be telling you what to do or that you're wrong, but I've heard these types of things so many times before, hell, I'm guilty of it myself.

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Nochielo
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 1512
Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:47 am 
 

In my experience, the people that show up to those places just want to party, get wasted or high and I am not having any of that. While they do meet new people, it's mostly an unforeseen consequence of the partying and getting wasted. Don't get me wrong, being more social and attending these places more often is not something I've ruled out but my experience is that I can't seem to find the people that interest me in these places. I don't think I have a negative perception of people in general. It's more like apathy, if I don't see how a meaningful link can be established then we can amicably part ways, I think no less of anyone for not being the type of person I gravitate to. Some people I know have called me out on this line of thought by saying that I just happen to have bad luck and only meet boring people, that's a fair point and a reason to play this game a while longer. However, when a result repeats itself too many times, you start to wonder.

I know I sound like a high-and-mighty asshole but I have thought this through a lot because I know there are worthwhile people out there, people with great stories, filled with talents, that don't think the way I do. If I didn't think so I would have separated myself from society and started living as a hermit. But I still go out on occasion and have my fun. It's one of the reasons I want to travel so desperately (New Zealand is very near the top of the list, by the way), I want to find those great individuals.

You imply that you are familiar with this, let's call it "problem". Do you mind continuing this by PM? Believe it or not, I'm interested in your experience.
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"Beauty is the substance distilled
The rest of what you could not hold
You'd not take the splendor instilled
And I just couldn’t ask for more"

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nekuomanteia
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:37 pm
Posts: 577
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:32 am 
 

I started to get over this loner/misanthrope stage right around my junior-senior years due to my exploration in other types of music, especially but most suprisingly, the rave/electronica scene. What was this music? Where do you go to listen to this stuff? Who listens to this shit? Although it took a while, I eventually made lots of friends, each wacky but personable in their own way that showed me how to have a good time, in everything in life, and in effect becoming more open-minded. Plus, there were girls, tons of girls at these events. Unlike the metal shows where the ocassional female freak shows up ready to bash somebody's brains out or is surrounded by mofos like a bitch in heat - at an underground jungle rave I could meet new girls or hang out with the ones in my circle of friends.

Ocassionaly nerve wracking, I was surprised with the ease I could now approach a cute girl in any environment or open up to somebody and for once listen to what they have to say. I'm glad I've shed my old self or else I would probably end up like these two.


Image

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Burnyoursins
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:59 am
Posts: 953
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:14 am 
 

nekuomanteia wrote:
I started to get over this loner/misanthrope stage right around my junior-senior years due to my exploration in other types of music, especially but most suprisingly, the rave/electronica scene. What was this music? Where do you go to listen to this stuff? Who listens to this shit? Although it took a while, I eventually made lots of friends, each wacky but personable in their own way that showed me how to have a good time, in everything in life, and in effect becoming more open-minded. Plus, there were girls, tons of girls at these events. Unlike the metal shows where the ocassional female freak shows up ready to bash somebody's brains out or is surrounded by mofos like a bitch in heat - at an underground jungle rave I could meet new girls or hang out with the ones in my circle of friends.

Ocassionaly nerve wracking, I was surprised with the ease I could now approach a cute girl in any environment or open up to somebody and for once listen to what they have to say. I'm glad I've shed my old self or else I would probably end up like these two.


I take it you haven't really been to a whole lot of metal shows? Because, here at least, there's always an almost 50/50 ratio of male to female. Besides, who the fuck goes out to the bar's to meet their soulmate, or whatever? I mean, I'm not saying it'll never happen, but the chances of you forming a long term relationship with a woman you met at a fuckin' rave show are pretty nil.

I personally can't empathize with any of you because I never was a loner. I had a bit of social anxiety through my Junior High years, but I've always loved people. Always hated being by myself. I couldn't name one single time where, if I wasn't completely broke, I had turned down the opportunity to go out with my buddies, be it the bar, a fire, or whatever.
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The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
SleightOfVickonomy wrote:
...no one still knows what it's supposed to be about.

Well, I reckon there's a pretty good chance it'll be about gory tits.

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nekuomanteia
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:37 am 
 

Well, down here in south Texas it's a sausage fest mostly. We used to get big acts like Nile, Krisiun, Hate Eternal, and some black metal bands that would bring the goth chicks out but nowadays it's been local bands mostly, and usually at bars where the women who approach you are more than likely trying to make a quick buck off of you. I don't think I go anywhere with the hope of making a long term relationship, cheesus. If it happens it happens. Which reminds me. I have a couple of friends who are married and have been for a long time and are some of the most socially inept people I've ever met. Well, actually one of the couples does manage to dress up and go to the renaissance festival once a year.

What I was trying to say in my previous post is that my interest in electronic music led me to explore other things and meet new people but it could have easily been jazz, art, or film clubs that would've opened up whole new worlds, which begs the question: Is music or metal in this case, what defines you, or is it all in your head? What matters is that I made that decision to get out of this shell, real or imaginary, and perhaps never trully abandoned it because it was part of my life and it brought me solace as much as it brought me pain. Nowadays, all it brings me is a mixture of nostalgia and embarrassment. What ever it was it's in the past now and done with. Sometimes it hits me just how ridiculous the whole thing was when I encounter someone all angsty and shifty. They make me want to slap them on the back of the head and tell them to go lift some weights or something.

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HellishHound
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Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:37 am
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:39 pm 
 

To the guys who replied to my post saying that grass makes them more socially anxious. It might have something to do with the amount you do and the regularity on how you do it. When I was in freshman year high school, yeah I used to get paranoid as all hell, hated answering the phone, hated going in public, etc., etc. But then I stopped for awhile (2 years?) and I developed very bad social anxiety, I couldn't go in to a lunch room or super market without having an anxiety attack. I hated eating in public that was the worst for me. Then some buddies got me to start smoking grass again, and they didnt go away right away, but once I found that I really like toking, and made it a regular thing, my social anxiety is gone. In fact I love going into public high, obviously not if its a business meeting or something important. but just going to the movies, out to eat, etc. it's fun as hell to me. I guess everyones different but in my experience it just took time getting used to the effects and comfortable operating under said effects. I'm honestly a happier person and I have a immensely better mental state thanks to it.
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Burnyoursins
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:59 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:13 pm 
 

nekuomanteia wrote:
What I was trying to say in my previous post is that my interest in electronic music led me to explore other things and meet new people but it could have easily been jazz, art, or film clubs that would've opened up whole new worlds, which begs the question: Is music or metal in this case, what defines you, or is it all in your head? What matters is that I made that decision to get out of this shell, real or imaginary, and perhaps never trully abandoned it because it was part of my life and it brought me solace as much as it brought me pain. Nowadays, all it brings me is a mixture of nostalgia and embarrassment. What ever it was it's in the past now and done with. Sometimes it hits me just how ridiculous the whole thing was when I encounter someone all angsty and shifty. They make me want to slap them on the back of the head and tell them to go lift some weights or something.


I don't think you should ever let music be your entire identity, and like I said, personally, I've never been the angst-ridden type. I've never had a problem meeting people at metal shows, or the blues bar, or whatever. I think a lot of people try much too hard to get caught up in the aesthetic values of a genre. Obviously the music you listen to will, somehow, find it's way into how you identify yourself, how you act, what you enjoy. But you can't let that be the sole thing you base your life around. I find it sad that there are people who listen to this fast, energetic music, and identify it as being introverted and depressing. I never understood how you could listen to something like Hateform and not let go of yourself. I wanted to ask something, also. Are you implying that you've left metal as a whole genre behind because you decided it made you act this way? That's a pretty ridiculous cop out, if so. You're in charge of how you act. I'm in great shape, I play sports, I have no trouble communicating with others, and I also listen to all sorts of metal. And I'm pretty fucking nerdy about the whole affair, too. I mean, I get right into that shit. I have friends who are the same way. You just can't paint an entire sub-culture with the same brush. Again, there could possibly be a correlation between social anxiety, introversion, and metal, but it really depends on the group of metalheads that you target. There is no widespread correlation, in my opinion.

And to HellishHound, I really don't think it has anything to do with the amount a person does it. It's just an individual thing. I've always been paranoid as fuck when high, so I don't do it. I don't enjoy it. I like my drink, and that's about it. If it works for you, that's great, but you have to understand that every person is different in someway. Maybe they're a little naturally paranoid, and all it does is increase what's already natural. Maybe it activates a certain hidden level of anxiety that they've never displayed before, who knows?
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The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
SleightOfVickonomy wrote:
...no one still knows what it's supposed to be about.

Well, I reckon there's a pretty good chance it'll be about gory tits.

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HellishHound
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:18 pm 
 

Burnyoursins wrote:
And to HellishHound, I really don't think it has anything to do with the amount a person does it. It's just an individual thing. I've always been paranoid as fuck when high, so I don't do it. I don't enjoy it. I like my drink, and that's about it. If it works for you, that's great, but you have to understand that every person is different in someway. Maybe they're a little naturally paranoid, and all it does is increase what's already natural. Maybe it activates a certain hidden level of anxiety that they've never displayed before, who knows?



Oh I know that fully man. I was just giving that as one possible reason. Like you know, the more you do the more you get used to it. But yeah I do see it as more of an individual thing. Everyone experiences it differently. It makes me more social, it makes you paranoid, cest la vie.
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nekuomanteia
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Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:37 pm
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:03 pm 
 

Burnyoursins wrote:
I wanted to ask something, also. Are you implying that you've left metal as a whole genre behind because you decided it made you act this way? That's a pretty ridiculous cop out, if so. You're in charge of how you act.


No, I've been a headbanger ever since sixth grade but due to circumstances I had no control of around jr high and high school, I felt I was thrust into a hopeless situation where mutual communication became impossible, all because I truly believed I was alone in what I thought was a unique outlook on life. I started hanging out with kids who I thought were jus like me but in fact were even worse. I met this dude who like me was also into death metal and into drawing corpses in fucked up pornographic scenes. But... I recognized in him a deeper neurosis, a real sickness and perversion. Suffering from unrequitted love, he became obsessed with this girl who he talked about cutting open and feeding on. Now that I think of it his influence may have had a negative effect on my work and social life at the time. I remember how he didn't give a fuck about his grades, about his disheveled appearance, about how creeped out girls were of him. As much as I dug the mutual morbidity, I realized I was following the same path to self-destruction he was on and made a conscious effort to spend less time hanging out with him and concentrate on my schoolwork.

In art class I met this extremely shy, quiet kid who once I befriended, became more outspoken. Unlike my other friend this dude maintained good grades and was very well read. He got me into reading which I never had an interest in until he opened my eyes and ears to the likes of Buroughs and Bukowski. Extremely frail and shy he spent most of his days and nights locked up in his bedroom only venturing out to acquire more punk records and books. I was a skater and couldn't do that, I had to be outside, but it was cool having him as a friend to learn from as well as to teach about metal.

A goth-chick I met in class turned out to be the most isolationist of my friends to the point of ending up in a mental hospital. The horror stories she brought back from the wards were enough to scare all of us to stick together and promise to look out after one another. Still suffering from her trauma of having been molested by an uncle and all the medication she was on, I suggested she write about her ordeal in an exorcism of sorts. She said that although it was difficult, it was helping her get through it.

This was the best circle of friends I ever had but the mutual isolationist tendencies we shared were only creating a shell around us few could ever enter and be a part of and vice versa. Once in a while we'd go to an art exhibit or a metal show, but usually just stay at home and talk on the phone or on occasion visit one of them hiding out in their cave. Like I said, I discovered Godflesh, Neurosis, and bands similar which only confirmed what we were thinking and feeling inside. Listening to them only increased our misanthropic vision and the whole futility of life. I got all my friends into Godflesh. Eventually, talking of suicide or not existing became a normal thing amongst us.

Geez, I already wrote too much. Anyways, this was right around the time I first heard some good hardcore breakbeat and dark techno music and started going to warehouse shows. I don't know what it was that was different about them that I found refreshing. It may be I became infected with the overall optimism, and zeal for life and adventure. Perhaps I was never truly an isolationist and had only made myself believe that I was; that it was something to be proud of. True, this new optimism could only be just another manipulation, another deception. Fuck it. I never blamed metal for anything, that's my first true love. When you're young and stupid things have a way of making themselves absolute regardless of where the real or imaginary influence is coming from. It's just a part of life and I'm glad I've outgrown it.

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Filosofuck
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:19 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:01 am 
 

nekuomanteia wrote:
Burnyoursins wrote:
I wanted to ask something, also. Are you implying that you've left metal as a whole genre behind because you decided it made you act this way? That's a pretty ridiculous cop out, if so. You're in charge of how you act.


No, I've been a headbanger ever since sixth grade but due to circumstances I had no control of around jr high and high school, I felt I was thrust into a hopeless situation where mutual communication became impossible, all because I truly believed I was alone in what I thought was a unique outlook on life. I started hanging out with kids who I thought were jus like me but in fact were even worse. I met this dude who like me was also into death metal and into drawing corpses in fucked up pornographic scenes. But... I recognized in him a deeper neurosis, a real sickness and perversion. Suffering from unrequitted love, he became obsessed with this girl who he talked about cutting open and feeding on. Now that I think of it his influence may have had a negative effect on my work and social life at the time. I remember how he didn't give a fuck about his grades, about his disheveled appearance, about how creeped out girls were of him. As much as I dug the mutual morbidity, I realized I was following the same path to self-destruction he was on and made a conscious effort to spend less time hanging out with him and concentrate on my schoolwork.

In art class I met this extremely shy, quiet kid who once I befriended, became more outspoken. Unlike my other friend this dude maintained good grades and was very well read. He got me into reading which I never had an interest in until he opened my eyes and ears to the likes of Buroughs and Bukowski. Extremely frail and shy he spent most of his days and nights locked up in his bedroom only venturing out to acquire more punk records and books. I was a skater and couldn't do that, I had to be outside, but it was cool having him as a friend to learn from as well as to teach about metal.

A goth-chick I met in class turned out to be the most isolationist of my friends to the point of ending up in a mental hospital. The horror stories she brought back from the wards were enough to scare all of us to stick together and promise to look out after one another. Still suffering from her trauma of having been molested by an uncle and all the medication she was on, I suggested she write about her ordeal in an exorcism of sorts. She said that although it was difficult, it was helping her get through it.

This was the best circle of friends I ever had but the mutual isolationist tendencies we shared were only creating a shell around us few could ever enter and be a part of and vice versa. Once in a while we'd go to an art exhibit or a metal show, but usually just stay at home and talk on the phone or on occasion visit one of them hiding out in their cave. Like I said, I discovered Godflesh, Neurosis, and bands similar which only confirmed what we were thinking and feeling inside. Listening to them only increased our misanthropic vision and the whole futility of life. I got all my friends into Godflesh. Eventually, talking of suicide or not existing became a normal thing amongst us.

Geez, I already wrote too much. Anyways, this was right around the time I first heard some good hardcore breakbeat and dark techno music and started going to warehouse shows. I don't know what it was that was different about them that I found refreshing. It may be I became infected with the overall optimism, and zeal for life and adventure. Perhaps I was never truly an isolationist and had only made myself believe that I was; that it was something to be proud of. True, this new optimism could only be just another manipulation, another deception. Fuck it. I never blamed metal for anything, that's my first true love. When you're young and stupid things have a way of making themselves absolute regardless of where the real or imaginary influence is coming from. It's just a part of life and I'm glad I've outgrown it.

Jesus fucking Christ, this is atrocious.

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the_raytownian
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:01 am 
 

RE: Weed:

yeah, no, I almost never smoke weed specifically because I hate how it makes me feel (not even strictly "paranoid", just extremely self-conscious and anxious as hell and closed off from everyone).

I have probably enjoyed it more times than not, but only because I typically only use it in intimate settings, and around people I trust. Weed itself is fine, it's just the combination of being very/moderately stoned and being in a situation where I already naturally feel anxious (public places/lots of people I don't really know or trust) that sends my already-present SA skyrocketing.

I can be extremely social and extroverted and open--FEARLESS, even--on other substances (booze, DXM, opioids, benzos--some or all have been used as a band-aid cure for my SA), but weed itself just magnifies all of my SA problems.

I'm sure it'd be good in combo with certain other substances, but on its own, especially if very potent, I just feel like I'm trapped in my own head and want nothing more than to get away from everything and just be alone until I come down.

"I wanna sit down... but that'd be so weird of me if I just sat on the ground right here... everyone else who's sitting has chairs. I can't sit on the ground. Everyone's going to know I'm stoned retarded after one hit off their bong... My feet are tired, dammit..."

*thought loop continues endlessly while I try to catch bits of conversation and stand frozen in place, staring at the same thing for an hour like a lobotomy patient*
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nekuomanteia
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Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:37 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:35 am 
 

Filosofuck wrote:
Jesus fucking Christ, this is atrocious.


wtf

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nekuomanteia
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:37 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:36 am 
 

the_raytownian wrote:
RE: Weed:

yeah, no, I almost never smoke weed specifically because I hate how it makes me feel (not even strictly "paranoid", just extremely self-conscious and anxious as hell and closed off from everyone).

I have probably enjoyed it more times than not, but only because I typically only use it in intimate settings, and around people I trust. Weed itself is fine, it's just the combination of being very/moderately stoned and being in a situation where I already naturally feel anxious (public places/lots of people I don't really know or trust) that sends my already-present SA skyrocketing.

I can be extremely social and extroverted and open--FEARLESS, even--on other substances (booze, DXM, opioids, benzos--some or all have been used as a band-aid cure for my SA), but weed itself just magnifies all of my SA problems.

I'm sure it'd be good in combo with certain other substances, but on its own, especially if very potent, I just feel like I'm trapped in my own head and want nothing more than to get away from everything and just be alone until I come down.

"I wanna sit down... but that'd be so weird of me if I just sat on the ground right here... everyone else who's sitting has chairs. I can't sit on the ground. Everyone's going to know I'm stoned retarded after one hit off their bong... My feet are tired, dammit..."

*thought loop continues endlessly while I try to catch bits of conversation and stand frozen in place, staring at the same thing for an hour like a lobotomy patient*


That sucks it affects you like that. You sound just like me when I first tried smoking herb but eventually those feelings of dread faded away and are nothing more than a reason to bust jokes about now. But you're right, not everybody reacts to it the same way. There was this one time when I had just blazed up with some dude I met at work and we decided to go to the convenience store to get some drinks. He was supposed to stay in the car while I went inside. I was in line to pay in front of this state trooper and what do I see by the corner of my eye?..this dude coming in acting like some fuckin weirdo, checking out the magazine stand, all shifty and twitchy, constantly looking over his shoulder to see me. I was sure he was going to attract the attention of the state trooper but I didn't know how to signal to him to go back outside. Plus I don't know if I reeked or not. This dude kept fucking with the magazines even women's magazines. At one point he just stood there leaning against the racks taking the whole scene in tyring to play it all cool. I finally pay and nod this idiot to follow me outside. He confessed he could not handle being by himself in the car. I was gonna kill this bastard. How odd, most people want to stay as far as possible from the law.

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_MFMGW_
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:38 am 
 

It's something I have noticed in a lot of metalheads. Not all of them, of course.
I wouldn't describe myself as shy, but I've never been comfortable surrounded by lots of people. And I have a terrible tendency to open my mouth before thinking, and instantly thinking "Why the fuck did you say that, you moron?".
Even nipping to clubs is a rarity for me now. Partially because of the crap music, mainly because all the noise, all the sweat, all the people, gaghtrhgh.
I'm actually typing the rest of this post from a closet, just thinking about crowds was enough for me to fall into a coma and subconsciously drag myself to a dark enclosed space j/k

Gigs for me just became more and more uncomfortable to the point where it has to be something I REALLY want to see for me to go to a gig.
And when I DO go to a gig, some ridiculous part of me feels guilty for just standing at the back of the crowd, probably with a stiff drink, and watching in silence.

inhumanist wrote:
Memories of awkward moments from my childhood still haunt me. Everything stupid which I did or said sticks to me like a trauma. Every single one of these memories could jump at me at any given moment like a goddamn war flashback.


Possibly only speaking for myself here, but I was under the impression everyone in the universe has this.
I sympathise. Last night I remembered some completely trivial moment from nearly 15 years ago where I made an utter idiot of myself, and I couldn't imagine why it was making me angry to remember it. Everyone involved would have definitely forgotten it.

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inhumanist
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:38 am 
 

Maybe everyone has it, but I suspect that most people are able to laugh about that stuff and brush it off, while I get confidence issues and a tendency to neurotically avoid social situations, which is kind of a vicious circle.
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Burnyoursins
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:30 pm 
 

Man, I love those crowds, the crush of bodies, all the sweat. I feed off that energy. Which is a big reason WHY I'm such a big metal fan. It's an energetic genre, even the slower stuff. Passionate and full of life.
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The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
SleightOfVickonomy wrote:
...no one still knows what it's supposed to be about.

Well, I reckon there's a pretty good chance it'll be about gory tits.

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the_raytownian
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:11 pm 
 

^ I do too, actually. I feel too shy to "get into it" if I'm the only one that wants to, but when it's a crowd of people wit the same mndset, it's so much easier to let go of my anxieties and get lost in the moment.
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TheLiberation
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:39 am 
 

nekuomanteia wrote:
Filosofuck wrote:
Jesus fucking Christ, this is atrocious.


wtf

I'm getting the impression around 95% of his posts are in similar vein so don't worry.
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Riffs
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 2:34 pm 
 

Exigence wrote:
I think it's such a cheat to corner yourself with all these limiting traits (introverted, shy, social anxiety, etc) and then say "...and I've always been drawn to this music." It becomes a cyclical self fulfilling prophecy. I think people develop weird superiority disorders when living in isolation. There's no extra wisdom or nobility in doing it. You're afraid of your own damn species and you tell yourself you're better to make it fit. Add a soundtrack of angry and depressive music already coated with an 'outsider acceptance' reputation and the whole mindfuck just gets twice as severe.

Bottom line is you need to know how to function with people. Be it purely mental health, personal success or just practicality. They outnumber your little world.


You make it sound easy. It's not for a lot of people. Introverts, people dealing with social anxiety don't exactly choose their conditions. Sure, they can work on some patterns and thinking but it's not easy. In many cases, you can't just "snap out of it". Furthermore, while your post has a lot of wisdom about the benefits of interaction with others, it also outlines some problems. It seems you're putting the entire problem on the shoulders of the introverted. The tone of your post, whether you wanted to or not, feels a bit judgmental and that's a reflection of what I see happening in society.

A lot of people who socialize have reactions similar to yours: "this person is weird, introverted. Why won't he just party and talk? Must feel intellectually superior" and so on.

Sure, many introverts draw lines. But that's not universal. And people should keep in mind that "social people" draw lines too.

Exigence wrote:
And your taste in music is as important to someone else as what brand hand soap you have on the kitchen sink. The only way to define yourself is by how you affect others. That is the totality of human existence. You will sink or swim in life based on other people.


Huh? I don't agree with that and again, think you are going too far the other way around. You define yourself by how you feel, what you do and how it fulfills you, your general sense of purpose and your relationships, among other things. "How you affect others" is only one part of an infinitely bigger equation, trust me.

What I am seeing in this thread (and I'm not just talking about you) is that a lot of people seem to go to one extreme or the other. It's not about whether you can live with no friends or you can get along with absolutely everybody. The reality is much more nuanced. People should socialize but not everybody needs the same level of socialization. You CAN get along with people who are different from you but there ARE people you can't get along with and that's perfectly OK. You shouldn't live in your own bubble but it's perfectly OK if you don't like meeting people in bars and pubs. You can be happy regardless. It IS possible to socialize too much and put too much weight on your interactions with others at the expense of who you really are and what could really fulfill you, and so on...

I think it's mostly about listening to yourself and adjusting as life goes on. Myself, I was heavily socializing and perhaps not discriminating enough and am cutting back on some things. It would have been easy for me to go out last night but I just had better things to do here as I have an exam Monday and better study. If the offer had been to see a great show, or some hobby that truly interests me? Yeah, I would have gone. I chose to discriminate, not because I don't like the people who called me last night. I just had better use of my time that night. You can discriminate on activities, hobbies music and still be a happy person. You just have to find your own balance.
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the_raytownian
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 2:54 pm 
 

^ I don't think he's saying people choose it, just that the ones who ARE anxious or w/e and try to mask the reality of their condition by saying "I'm just smarter than the average bear. HNYUH!" and "I'm only introverted bcuz everyone is stupider because they like Rhianna" are not really being entirely honest with themselves.

Of course I wish I could be more extroverted/less shy/socially anxious.

But I also don't feel superior to people just because I think too much about everything and am too nervous to talk about anything at all. I may not be able to identify with a lot of people in their views or tastes, and I genuinely believe a lot of people's priorities are in the wrong place, but I don't feel like I'm better than them just because I fail to "be normal". I don't have any delusions that there is not something wrong with me, and not them having never heard of my favorite DSBM band (ha, just a little joke there).

You can be well-adjusted socially and still "be a unique individual". I don't blame other people for my mental disorders... the people who do are the "cheaters", you see?
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mindshadow
Echoes in an empty cranium

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:36 am
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 3:22 pm 
 

I bet no one here is as socially awkward as me - I make the emtomoligists in the Silence of the Lambs look normal :lol:

I have a very intense look like James Taylor in Two Lane Blacktop which usually gets me into bother.

Spoiler: show
:(
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 880
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 4:51 pm 
 

the_raytownian wrote:
^ I don't think he's saying people choose it, just that the ones who ARE anxious or w/e and try to mask the reality of their condition by saying "I'm just smarter than the average bear. HNYUH!" and "I'm only introverted bcuz everyone is stupider because they like Rhianna" are not really being entirely honest with themselves.

Of course I wish I could be more extroverted/less shy/socially anxious.

But I also don't feel superior to people just because I think too much about everything and am too nervous to talk about anything at all. I may not be able to identify with a lot of people in their views or tastes, and I genuinely believe a lot of people's priorities are in the wrong place, but I don't feel like I'm better than them just because I fail to "be normal". I don't have any delusions that there is not something wrong with me, and not them having never heard of my favorite DSBM band (ha, just a little joke there).

You can be well-adjusted socially and still "be a unique individual". I don't blame other people for my mental disorders... the people who do are the "cheaters", you see?


Yeah. And BTW, congrats on being able to see your own issues! This is not always easy. I hope you'll get to the place you want to be as far as socializing and anxiety is concerned.

I think he might have been saying what you suggest but I was worried about the blanket statements. In his post and in the thread in general. Surely, one must fit within certain aspects of society somehow but it's not a given that you have to agree with every viewpoint or trend, much less embrace them. The healthy individual strives for balance. I'm not sure anybody ever finds it in any constant manner if mental health stats are any indication :-P

I'm just worried that I'm seeing an oversimplification of the issue in some instances. I agree with you that some people are hiding. On the other hand, it's going too far when people are being told they're being difficult by not going to pubs, or worse, that we're solely defined by our relationships.
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