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SleightOfVickonomy
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:26 pm
Posts: 330
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:02 am 
 

BBC Radio 4 wrote:
Lady Gaga was banned but Death Metal is cool - from the streets and clubs of Jakarta, we hear the contradictions that make up the burgeoning Indonesian music scene.

As many young Indonesians have more cash in their pockets, music promoters are seeing the country as a new opportunity for high profile pop tours. Artists such as Beyoncé and Rihanna have been booked to play in Jakarta, albeit modestly dressed.

But there have been frictions. The world took notice when Lady Gaga's recent show in Jakarta was cancelled - local authorities sat on the fence as conservative Islamic groups called her the "devil's messenger." It seemed that despite Jakarta's reputation as the "city of sin" (an unlikely reputation for the capital city of the most populous muslim country in the world) things were changing.

Then American death metal band Cannibal Corpse, banned from performing in some countries because of their graphic songs about mutilation and necrophilia, was approved to play in Jakarta. This is one of the contradictions in Indonesian pop - discovering that heavy metal is on the rise amongst young radical muslims.

This documentary looks at these opposing forces and how the music scene is taking shape in this influential city.

Maria Bakkalapulo talks to the group Tengkorak, a self-styled Islamic metal band sympathetic to FPI, the Islamic Defenders Front, a hard-line Islamic group in Indonesia notorious for vandalising nightclubs and even breaking up concert gigs. Tengkorak & FPI were integral in pushing Lady Gaga's show cancellation in Jakarta.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01rvpkd

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SleightOfVickonomy
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:26 pm
Posts: 330
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:05 am 
 

I first heard it on BBC World where the presenter said "I love to shock and I love to be shocked but when I saw some of the song titles of that Cannibal Corpse band I felt ill".
Good for them for having Cannibal Corpse but refusing Gaga to play because she's been pro-gay is fucking retarded.

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BloodSacrificeShaman
Leopold Herman Stotch

Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 3:20 am
Posts: 1855
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:36 am 
 

Of course they have to fucking make it some pathetic "Lady Gaga vs heavy metal" bullshit. It's got nothing to do with musicians/bands versing one another, or in some kind of conflict.
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Marag
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: down there where chaos prevails
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:07 am 
 

So, muslims approve of death metal while rejecting Lady Gaga? I always suspected they were way more metal than the christians.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9652
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:58 am 
 

Marag wrote:
So, muslims approve of death metal while rejecting Lady Gaga? I always suspected they were way more metal prude and contradictory than the christians.

FTFY
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DarthVenom
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:56 am
Posts: 611
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:00 am 
 

Marag wrote:
So, muslims approve of death metal while rejecting Lady Gaga? I always suspected they were way more metal than the christians.


I figure you're just joking, but in all seriousness, I can't actually think of much that's less metal than giving in to hyperconservative/fundamentalist activist groups who push for censorship.


Last edited by DarthVenom on Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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VirginSteele_Helstar
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:26 pm
Posts: 397
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:08 am 
 

You have to admit it is incredibly contradictory! Sure, most people here are Cannibal Corpse fans and not necessarily Gaga fans but the double standard is too much for me to take. This is utter bull! Female artists should dress "modestly" to perform?

I don't mind CC's lyricism but if we were to nitpick and say which artists are less offensive and more helpful in the long run, I'd say Gaga! Because if she's preaching tolerance then isn't that a better message than any preached by the seemingly laodicean or downright apolitical Cannibal Corpse?
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shouvince
Veteran

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:11 am
Posts: 2771
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:11 pm 
 

I find it weird that Indonesia would be more conservative than some of the gulf countries (strictly limited to UAE, Bahrain and Qatar) when it comes to homosexuality. I say this because Elton John had a full fledged concert in UAE few years ago and there was no ruckus about him being gay. At least not in the news (most of which is controlled by the government), so there! The gulf countries, however, do not allow obscenities from being aired in the public spaces which is why when bands do perform, they're told not to utter expletives. Anyway, with regards to this specific issue, I think the authorities fear the overtly sexual performances by Gaga and hence the banhammer.

Having Corpse play in Indonesia is really NOT surprising though. The country recently hosted Obscene Extreme and have been having bands like Napalm Death play there regularly. I don't see why BBC or any news channel should make this idiotic comparison.

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severzhavnost
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
Posts: 723
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:18 pm 
 

Not a double standard at all. Good on Indonesia for being intelligent enough to know that Cannibal Corpse don't actually promote the violent acts in their lyrics! Whereas when it comes to the skank-pop genre, many artists do practice what they preach and encourage fans to do the same.

Not to say that banning things is something i support, just that the government's policy isn't a logical inconsistency. Even if it's incorrect by Western judgments.

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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7741
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:25 pm 
 

SleightOfVickonomy wrote:
...the presenter said "I love to shock and I love to be shocked but when I saw some of the song titles of that Cannibal Corpse band I felt ill".

Awesome.
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PvtNinjer
Veteran

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:45 am
Posts: 2631
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:10 am 
 

severzhavnost wrote:
Not a double standard at all. Good on Indonesia for being intelligent enough to know that Cannibal Corpse don't actually promote the violent acts in their lyrics! Whereas when it comes to the skank-pop genre, many artists do practice what they preach and encourage fans to do the same.

Not to say that banning things is something i support, just that the government's policy isn't a logical inconsistency. Even if it's incorrect by Western judgments.


What's up grandma.

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Xlxlx
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 5467
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:19 am 
 

VirginSteele_Helstar wrote:
Because if she's preaching tolerance then isn't that a better message than any preached by the seemingly laodicean or downright apolitical Cannibal Corpse?

You can't preach tolerance to fully commited Muslims. Orthodox Islam and tolerance do not mix.

Anyway, this whole situation is pretty stupid, not to mention rather surreal. It's not like Gaga needs that concert though, as she's anything but poor.
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VirginSteele_Helstar
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:26 pm
Posts: 397
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:05 am 
 

But she needs a cause!
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Kveldulfr
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 2425
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:16 am 
 

Image

Seriously, it's pretty contradictory but hell, maybe they dislike more trannys than guys just singing about butchering babies and stuff.
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Westvargr
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:51 pm
Posts: 307
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:08 pm 
 

Are we done with the stupid "pop"-bashing, now thank you?


There is absolutely nothing contradictory about this at all.

Lady GaGa promotes and supports Tolerance, Individualism, Homosexuality and Feminism. All things that are still rejected in most eastern countries because of their ridiculous conception of the world.

There is nothing threatening their society in the lyrics/imagery of Cannibal Corpse on the other hand. If anything, you'll find lyrics that are the opposite.
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HamburgerBoy
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:40 am
Posts: 1537
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:03 pm 
 

I found the "heavy metal is on the rise amongst young radical muslims" to be the weirdest part of this article. How are they defining a "radical" Muslim and how do they know they are the ones listening to Cannibal Corpse? I love it when people pretend the BBC is reputable.

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Viral
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:04 am
Posts: 1896
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:01 pm 
 

Westvargr wrote:
There is absolutely nothing contradictory about this at all.

Lady GaGa promotes and supports Tolerance, Individualism, Homosexuality and Feminism. All things that are still rejected in most eastern countries because of their ridiculous conception of the world.

This, though I disagree with their conception of the world being ridiculous.

Islam appears to be the last bastion of real tradition left in this world that still virulently opposes modernity in all its forms.
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Sathanas_BM wrote:
The biggest influence of Swedish Death Metal is In Flames.

That's not right. That's not even wrong. It's so fundamentally inaccurate that I think it may well be incorrectable.

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Desperta_Ferro
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:45 am
Posts: 603
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:14 pm 
 

Lady Gaga fucking rules and she's more metal than anybody here, bunch of posers.

I'm a fan of both. Well, CC not so much, the last album was cool tho.

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Errebuss
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:07 pm
Posts: 548
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:10 am 
 

Westvargr wrote:
Lady GaGa promotes and supports Tolerance, Individualism, Homosexuality and Feminism.


If by individualism, you mean being a regular, modern party girl who is one of the biggest pop stars in the world, but wears silly avant-garde fashion to pretend to be "misunderstood" or "counter-culture," sure.

If by feminism, you mean wearing a thong and see-through plastic bra while sitting in a birthday cake and singing about getting drunk in the club and riding the "disco stick," sure. What an inspirational figure in the feminist movement! I now totally accept women as intellectual, non sex objects.

Desperta_Ferro wrote:
she's more metal than anybody here


No, you're just being silly now.

As for Indonesia specifically, yes, it's pretty contradictory. I'm pretty surprised Cannibal Corpse can tour there at all. Though it probably helps that Cannibal Corpse doesn't receive radio-play nor appear on magazine covers sold in your local supermarket.

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Westvargr
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:51 pm
Posts: 307
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:07 am 
 

Errebuss wrote:
Westvargr wrote:
Lady GaGa promotes and supports Tolerance, Individualism, Homosexuality and Feminism.


If by individualism, you mean being a regular, modern party girl who is one of the biggest pop stars in the world, but wears silly avant-garde fashion to pretend to be "misunderstood" or "counter-culture," sure.

If by feminism, you mean wearing a thong and see-through plastic bra while sitting in a birthday cake and singing about getting drunk in the club and riding the "disco stick," sure. What an inspirational figure in the feminist movement! I now totally accept women as intellectual, non sex objects.


Someone obviously isn't able to catch the ironic reflection of society she throws right into your face with her lyrics and imagery. But I would not expect any different from a casual "metalhead" who's rejecting anything that has the "pop"-label for superficial reasons.
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chrislyles15
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:08 pm
Posts: 744
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:49 am 
 

Westvargr wrote:
Someone obviously isn't able to catch the ironic reflection of society she throws right into your face with her lyrics and imagery. But I would not expect any different from a casual "metalhead" who's rejecting anything that has the "pop"-label for superficial reasons.


Oh give me a break. There's nothing "ironic" about her skanky crap. She's just another vapid pop star talking about fucking in night club bathrooms, just like Ke$ha or Katy Perry or any of the other radio semen queens these days. There's nothing deep and meaningful about her. She is exactly as she appears.
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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2596
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:51 am 
 

Westvargr wrote:
Someone obviously isn't able to catch the ironic reflection of society she throws right into your face with her lyrics and imagery. But I would not expect any different from a casual "metalhead" who's rejecting anything that has the "pop"-label for superficial reasons.


Agreed. Anyone who has actually listened to Lady Gaga would not say something like that, unless they were listening with the intent to nitpick. In fact, I'd say her songwriting for Born This Way is way more inspired and well-thought-out than Torture or Evisceration Plague.
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Desperta_Ferro
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:45 am
Posts: 603
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:08 pm 
 

Please, dudes, I don't mean to change your opinion, but listen to, say, "Boys boys boys", a Gaga's song, obviously inspired by the Motley Crue's one, and pay attention to the braindead whore voice she makes, and the retarded lyrics. She's not another pop star, that song is not literal.

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Eh_Timeghoul
Be gentle, I was... Born This Way

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:35 pm
Posts: 317
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:35 pm 
 

somefella wrote:
Westvargr wrote:
Someone obviously isn't able to catch the ironic reflection of society she throws right into your face with her lyrics and imagery. But I would not expect any different from a casual "metalhead" who's rejecting anything that has the "pop"-label for superficial reasons.


Agreed. Anyone who has actually listened to Lady Gaga would not say something like that, unless they were listening with the intent to nitpick. In fact, I'd say her songwriting for Born This Way is way more inspired and well-thought-out than Torture or Evisceration Plague.


hear that, rehashing 80s Pop/Madonna is inspired and wearing more retarded versions of David Bowie outfits is ironic (well it kinda is but not in the 'edgy' sense you seem to think). you're the type of morons that probably think all these Death & Black Metal bands are actually satanists......wake up and take off the blinders

OT: this is the kinda thing Metal fans should stand behind, even in spite of Gaga being lame, she's a musician and she should be free to do her work-this shows that not just Metal/harsh music is fucked with in the world....and in turn the general populace/Pop fans should stand behind Metal whenever some asshole wants to blame it for a tragedy perpetuated by some idiot just cause they happened to listen to it (or whatever 'dark music' they always deem Metal).......

but it won't, so fuck her.

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somefella
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Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:37 am 
 

It's as much rehashed 80s Pop as Bloodbath is rehashed Entombed. As for image, so much for the 'metalheads aren't superficial, we don't care about your looks!' thing. The reasoning you're giving to not liking something sounds pathetically insecure and shallow. By the way,I probably own more first-press tapes than you do CDs, so you can jump right off the metal high-horse this instant, it's not going to win you an argument or make you seem intelligent, or get any point across(other than you being unable to make a statement without forcing in some unrelated insults).
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BastardHead
Magic Mike

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
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Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:34 pm 
 

somefella wrote:
By the way,I probably own more first-press tapes than you do CDs, so you can jump right off the metal high-horse this instant, it's not going to win you an argument or make you seem intelligent, or get any point across(other than you being unable to make a statement without forcing in some unrelated insults).


The irony of this statement is almost crippling.
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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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Location: Québec
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:41 pm 
 

RIP thread.
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