Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Register   * Login 



This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
w0Lf
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:04 am
Posts: 112
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:39 pm 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
"Intelligence" isn't something that can be measured in a linear fashion like IQ. It's far too much of an abstract concept.
Then why do nations with higher average IQs have more wealth than nations with lower average IQs, discounting the presence of significant natural resources?

Intelligence isn't the end-all-be-all of a human being, but it is real, and we have tools that are reasonably good at measuring it.

Top
 Profile  
MalignantThrone
Vanished in the Cosmic Futility

Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 1:24 am
Posts: 2789
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:50 pm 
 

w0Lf wrote:
The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
"Intelligence" isn't something that can be measured in a linear fashion like IQ. It's far too much of an abstract concept.
Then why do nations with higher average IQs have more wealth than nations with lower average IQs, discounting the presence of significant natural resources?

Are you implying that wealth is an indicator of intelligence, too? I'd assume there's a lot more that factors into wealth than merely who has control over the resources, and if intelligence did play a part in that it'd likely be an impossibly small one. :scratch: And anyways, you're supposed to be proving the validity of IQ here, I assume, so this really just sticks out as begging the question unless I'm supposed to assume via your post that all rich people are smart.
_________________
Guitarpro77889 wrote:
which ones are mainstream cuz i will stop listening to them

Top
 Profile  
Grave_Wyrm
Metal Sloth

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 3928
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:58 pm 
 

... since there's still the OP for me to consider:
Spoiler: show
Image

Image

Image
_________________
Bigotry is a mental health issue.

Top
 Profile  
w0Lf
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:04 am
Posts: 112
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:01 pm 
 

MalignantThrone wrote:
w0Lf wrote:
Then why do nations with higher average IQs have more wealth than nations with lower average IQs, discounting the presence of significant natural resources?

Are you implying that wealth is an indicator of intelligence, too? There's a lot more that factors into that than merely who has control over the resources. :scratch: And anyways, you're supposed to be proving the validity of IQ here, I assume, so this really just sticks out as begging the question unless I'm supposed to assume via your post that all rich people are smart.
There are always outliers, but most self-made millionares became wealthy through intelligence and a little luck, not luck and a little intelligence. Wealth is not an absolute indicator of intelligence, but there is definitely a correlation.

As a general rule, the higher the intelligence a job requires, the higher the pay. Doctors make more than carpenters make more than burger-flippers. One area of exception is the entertainment business.

Top
 Profile  
The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7455
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:24 pm 
 

w0Lf wrote:
The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
"Intelligence" isn't something that can be measured in a linear fashion like IQ. It's far too much of an abstract concept.
Then why do nations with higher average IQs have more wealth than nations with lower average IQs, discounting the presence of significant natural resources?

Other way around, buddy: wealthy countries have better education.
_________________
gomorro wrote:
Fortunately the seminar started and when it finished, I runed away like if Usain Bolt were about to rape me.

Top
 Profile  
Thexhumed
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 1920
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:04 pm 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
So what's the solution? Well, you can't ban religion, because that would be a grotesque violation of human rights. What you can do, however, is challenge religion in the same fashion that people challenge any other kind of superstition or illogical belief. If you're religious, you have every right to your faith but you do not have a right to the "respect" that so many people think religious beliefs should automatically receive.


I don't want to turn this into a debate, but I'd like to state how, nowadays, it seems that the parameter to define what's logical and what's not depends solely on what can be deduced from scientific experimentation and what can't. That's not really smart if you ask me.

Top
 Profile  
The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7455
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:06 pm 
 

Care to elaborate?
_________________
gomorro wrote:
Fortunately the seminar started and when it finished, I runed away like if Usain Bolt were about to rape me.

Top
 Profile  
Marag
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 2773
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:08 pm 
 

Grave_Wyrm wrote:
Image

Quote:
EA=Electronic Anrichrist

Nothing ignorant about this

Top
 Profile  
Thexhumed
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 1920
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:11 pm 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
Care to elaborate?


You can't define what's logical or not by only examining stuff in a laboratory, not everything is subject of empirical experimentation. I know you didn't say that literally, but it's the feeling I get after your post.

Top
 Profile  
The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7455
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:18 pm 
 

I think you've got it backwards. Logic isn't dictated by science; science is an extension of logic.

Are you gonna be one of those "other ways of knowing!" types on me now? =/
_________________
gomorro wrote:
Fortunately the seminar started and when it finished, I runed away like if Usain Bolt were about to rape me.

Top
 Profile  
Thexhumed
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 1920
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:23 pm 
 

If you mean those kind of people who say like "I know that God exists because He told me so", then no. Honestly, I'm not interested on engaging on a discussion over what's logical and what's not, specially with somebody who puts religion (Christianity) on the same level of breaking a glass or walking under a ladder.

Top
 Profile  
henkkjelle
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
Posts: 4537
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:33 pm 
 

Why wouldn't he put in on the same level?
_________________
... just the bare bones of a name, all rock and ice and storm and abyss. It makes no attempt to sound human. It is atoms and stars.

Top
 Profile  
The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7455
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:38 pm 
 

Mind explaining to me how believing in a magic 2000-year-old Jewish carpenter is any better than believing in bad luck?
_________________
gomorro wrote:
Fortunately the seminar started and when it finished, I runed away like if Usain Bolt were about to rape me.

Top
 Profile  
w0Lf
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:04 am
Posts: 112
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:45 pm 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
w0Lf wrote:
]Then why do nations with higher average IQs have more wealth than nations with lower average IQs, discounting the presence of significant natural resources?

Other way around, buddy: wealthy countries have better education.
Why do they have better education systems? Because their higher average intelligence afforded them the capacity to create those systems in the first place. IQ is mostly heritable, nations with lower average IQs aren't going to magically become smarter just because of better schools.

Reality is tough, ain't it? No matter how we feel it should be, it doesn't change.

Top
 Profile  
The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7455
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:47 pm 
 

Oooh, do I detect a hint of Bell-Curve-style racism lurking around the corner?
_________________
gomorro wrote:
Fortunately the seminar started and when it finished, I runed away like if Usain Bolt were about to rape me.

Top
 Profile  
Menternor
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:43 pm
Posts: 153
Location: Peru
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:06 am 
 

Reality has decimated practically every single civilization that has appeared on the planet too though, no matter how advanced they were military, technologically and intelectually speaking.

If that doesn't happen in modern times, then reality has changed, doesn't it?
_________________
Ash nazg gimbatul,
Ash nazg thrakatulûk
Agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

Top
 Profile  
shouvince
Veteran

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:11 am
Posts: 3225
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:21 am 
 

w0Lf wrote:
]Then why do nations with higher average IQs have more wealth than nations with lower average IQs, discounting the presence of significant natural resources?

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
Other way around, buddy: wealthy countries have better education.

w0Lf wrote:
Why do they have better education systems? Because their higher average intelligence afforded them the capacity to create those systems in the first place. IQ is mostly heritable, nations with lower average IQs aren't going to magically become smarter just because of better schools.


Because inline quotes aren't allowed on the board.

Anyway, I disagree with Wolf here. Wealthy nations are a result of a rich history, positive geographical endowment (natural resources etc) and timely revolutions. You can't anchor it solely on IQ. But I get what you're trying to say that smarter people make a wealthy nation, yeah? It's easy to fall for it. But, I honestly feel that that probably accounts for maybe 10% of it, granted that you're talking about collective IQ or IQ per capita (if that ever exists haha). Just a bunch of muddled up thoughts.

Back on topic, one thing which really saddens me about the ignorant things that religious people do is that they give inordinate sums of money to the church. I, personally, have seen it in my family and in orthodox families. I fuckin' hate it. The whole belief that by giving donations to the church to ensure a place in heaven...is fuckin' stupid! Rather than improve your standard of living or invest in your children's future or something positive in one's life, people would fall prey for such shit. Really terrible.

Top
 Profile  
Nochielo
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 2388
Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:31 am 
 

w0Lf wrote:
Why do they have better education systems? Because their higher average intelligence afforded them the capacity to create those systems in the first place. IQ is mostly heritable, nations with lower average IQs aren't going to magically become smarter just because of better schools.

So poorer countries are stupider countries? Have you considered the circumstances that lead countries to be poor? Do sovereign states not go through problems that deplete their resources like, for example, wars, invasions, epidemics, shitty leaders and the like? That has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence. On an individual level, graduating the top of your class doesn't mean you get the best job or a job at all. Maybe you'll have a heart attack and lose some brain faculties. You could get shot and end up a quadriplegic. Maybe you just won't get hired because no one is willing to give you a chance. Which brings me to my next point: millions of brilliant kids the world over will never know of their gift because the can't attend a proper school where they can cultivate their talents. Some kids will learn absolutely nothing, of course, but intelligence is not intrinsic to nationality.

In any case, your "smart" systems have been funded by China for the past decade. Considering the decrease is US wealth and vertiginous rise of wealth in China, does this mean they are slowly getting smarter than US citizens because they are very slowly bleeding you dry of assets.
_________________
last fm
"Beauty is the substance distilled
The rest of what you could not hold
You'd not take the splendor instilled
And I just couldn’t ask for more"

Top
 Profile  
~Guest 282118
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8300
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:46 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
If you're religious, you have every right to your faith but you do not have a right to the "respect" that so many people think religious beliefs should automatically receive.

This, damnit. All of this.

Top
 Profile  
inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 5634
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:30 am 
 

Fuck people like "w0Lf" in particular, turning this okay thread into yet another discussion about racist nonsense.
_________________
Under_Starmere wrote:
iHumanism: Philosophy phoned in.
Metantoine wrote:
If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?

Top
 Profile  
LordStenhammar
Veteran

Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 3063
Location: Not in Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:45 am 
 

I've had some Jehova's Witnesses at my door quite regurarly lately. I guess I'm just too kind to tell them that I'm not interested in their religion. Yeah, I'm a fucking pansy. But at least we've had some interesting conversations, if nothing else. One thing that irritates me though, is that they say animals have no free will at all. Well, I think quite the opposite. My parents' cat always did just what it wanted, and if that's not a clear evidence of free will, I don't know what is. I asked them to elaborate this thing a bit, and they said something like that animals have instinctive wisdom that the men have not. A migratory bird is able to navigate to the south every year without a map, but it will die unconscious of Jehova just like some native people in Africa. Well, I still think animals have free will just like men. Actually I think they are more free than a man can ever get.

Top
 Profile  
The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7455
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:50 am 
 

I think you misunderstand their concept of "free will." What they mean to say is that animals act only according to nature, which was programmed into them by Jeebus, while humans have a consciousness that God doesn't directly interfere with. At least, that's what they believe.
_________________
gomorro wrote:
Fortunately the seminar started and when it finished, I runed away like if Usain Bolt were about to rape me.

Top
 Profile  
LordStenhammar
Veteran

Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 3063
Location: Not in Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:02 am 
 

Yes, you might be right. I've thought of that same thing too. God gave "free will" to man as they (propably) say in the Bible. He's conscious of the (possible) existence of God, and he has the right to choose if he goes down to hell's road or not. In that context I understand it, though I not fully agree with their sayings.

Top
 Profile  
Grave_Wyrm
Metal Sloth

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 3928
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:48 am 
 

Marag wrote:
Quote:
EA=Electronic Anrichrist

Nothing ignorant about this

:) Did I miss something? I thought this was a protest against violent video games or something. Was it against EA's business practice and I just beefed?
_________________
Bigotry is a mental health issue.

Top
 Profile  
ClaymanOnFire
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:13 pm
Posts: 472
Location: Nice try, Big Brother
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:22 pm 
 

Thexhumed wrote:
If you mean those kind of people who say like "I know that God exists because He told me so", then no. Honestly, I'm not interested on engaging on a discussion over what's logical and what's not, specially with somebody who puts religion (Christianity) on the same level of breaking a glass or walking under a ladder.

This. If we need to convince you (henkkjelle, Beast) of something so basic, you should just read C.S. Lewis or something. It's really not worth a debate.

EDIT: Not to sound condescending or anything :-P Sorry if that came off the wrong way.

Also, that EA thing is hilarious. "HELL is not a game." Sounds like a slogan Ann Veal would use :lol:
_________________
"There's too many people on this earth. We need a new plague."

Top
 Profile  
Under_Starmere
Abhorrent Fish-Man

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:00 pm
Posts: 5581
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:25 pm 
 

Grave_Wyrm wrote:
:) Did I miss something? I thought this was a protest against violent video games or something. Was it against EA's business practice and I just beefed?


Nah, he just means EA is terrible. ;)
_________________
Aeons (Cosmic drone ambient project)
Debut album out on Reverse Alignment

Top
 Profile  
Under_Starmere
Abhorrent Fish-Man

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:00 pm
Posts: 5581
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:28 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
If you're religious, you have every right to your faith but you do not have a right to the "respect" that so many people think religious beliefs should automatically receive.

This, damnit. All of this.


Indeed. I've long held the view that you can say and believe whatever religious nonsense you want, just understand that most people will think you're a fucking retard for it.
_________________
Aeons (Cosmic drone ambient project)
Debut album out on Reverse Alignment


Last edited by Under_Starmere on Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
henkkjelle
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
Posts: 4537
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:32 pm 
 

ClaymanOnFire wrote:
Thexhumed wrote:
If you mean those kind of people who say like "I know that God exists because He told me so", then no. Honestly, I'm not interested on engaging on a discussion over what's logical and what's not, specially with somebody who puts religion (Christianity) on the same level of breaking a glass or walking under a ladder.

This. If we need to convince you (henkkjelle, Beast) of something so basic, you should just read C.S. Lewis or something. It's really not worth a debate.

EDIT: Not to sound condescending or anything :-P Sorry if that came off the wrong way.

Also, that EA thing is hilarious. "HELL is not a game." Sounds like a slogan Ann Veal would use :lol:


Again, why shouldn't we put religion in with walking under a ladder? Both are stories and believes given down by generation after generation, and both have no evidence going for them. Just give me one example why Christianity is different from superstition when it comes to truth and logic.
_________________
... just the bare bones of a name, all rock and ice and storm and abyss. It makes no attempt to sound human. It is atoms and stars.

Top
 Profile  
Erosion of Humanity
Destroyer of the Gods

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:12 pm
Posts: 5898
Location: over yon hill
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:44 pm 
 

henkkjelle wrote:

Again, why shouldn't we put religion in with walking under a ladder? Both are stories and believes given down by generation after generation, and both have no evidence going for them. Just give me one example why Christianity is different from superstition when it comes to truth and logic.


I can see your point and I can see why you would say this but I'm going to answer this from my point of view and you can take what you will from that. I believe that God exists to me there is evidence of this, sure science can't prove it, but to me there is evidence. So basically I can prove to myself that God does exist but you can't prove to me that walking under a ladder will bring bad luck. It's all in the eye of the beholder so to speak.
_________________
Man is truly a wretched thing, and the forest is committed to expunging him from existence.

Azmodes wrote:
It combines two of my favourite things: penis innuendo and derigin.

Top
 Profile  
ClaymanOnFire
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:13 pm
Posts: 472
Location: Nice try, Big Brother
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:46 pm 
 

henkkjelle wrote:
Again, why shouldn't we put religion in with walking under a ladder? Both are stories and believes given down by generation after generation, and both have no evidence going for them. Just give me one example why Christianity is different from superstition when it comes to truth and logic.

I've been most convinced by the moral argument, that our morality is evidence of another being interfering with our world.

Spoiler: show
C.S. Lewis in Mere Christianity wrote:
For example, some people wrote to me saying, 'Isn't what you call the Moral Law simply our herd instinct and hasn't it been developed just like all our other instincts?' Now I do not deny that we may have a herd instinct: but that is not what I mean by the Moral Law. We all know what it feels like to be prompted by instinct — by mother love, or sexual instinct, or the instinct for food. It means that you feel a strong want or desire to act in a certain way. And, of course, we sometimes do feel just that sort of desire to help another person: and no doubt that desire is due to the herd instinct. But feeling a desire to help is quite different from feeling that you ought to help whether you want to or not. Supposing you hear a cry for help from a man in danger. You will probably feel two desires — one desire to give help (due to your herd instinct), the other a desire to keep out of danger (due to the instinct for self-preservation). But you will find inside you, in addition to these two impulses, a third thing which tells you that you ought to follow the impulse to help, and suppress the impulse to run away. Now this thing that judges between two instincts, that decides which should be encouraged, cannot itself be either of them. You might as well say that the sheet of music which tells you, at a given moment, to play one note on the piano and not another, is itself one of the notes on the keyboard. The Moral Law tells us the tune we have to play: our instincts are merely the keys.


Just an excerpt from an excellent book I couldn't recommend more. The quote does the book an injustice, but I think it's effective enough for our purposes.
_________________
"There's too many people on this earth. We need a new plague."

Top
 Profile  
ClaymanOnFire
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:13 pm
Posts: 472
Location: Nice try, Big Brother
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:58 pm 
 

Erosion Of Humanity wrote:
I can see your point and I can see why you would say this but I'm going to answer this from my point of view and you can take what you will from that. I believe that God exists to me there is evidence of this, sure science can't prove it, but to me there is evidence. So basically I can prove to myself that God does exist but you can't prove to me that walking under a ladder will bring bad luck. It's all in the eye of the beholder so to speak.

Before anyone inevitably jumps this post, let me explain a bit. Science's purpose is to explain the physical world. It does not, however, answer the question (or presume to answer the question) "Why am I here? Is there a reason?" It explains how the things happen, not if there is a greater meaning to it. Wether or not there is a meaning, it's not for science to decide. It's not ignoring science, it's simply outside science's scope.
_________________
"There's too many people on this earth. We need a new plague."

Top
 Profile  
henkkjelle
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
Posts: 4537
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:03 pm 
 

@Erosion Of Humanity

That's personal proof, that doesn't qualify as real proof. What about Allah and great animal faced god somethingoranother? They also have believers. They can't all be right, but they an all be wrong. Especially when non of these gods have any real evidence going for them.

@ClaymanOnFire

To me morals are a evolutionairy process, and there is quite a bit of evidence supporting this.

EDIT, ah the greater meaning. I dunno, being part of a very successful species seems meaningful to me. I don't think there is a greater meaning, you personally have to give meaning to your own life.
_________________
... just the bare bones of a name, all rock and ice and storm and abyss. It makes no attempt to sound human. It is atoms and stars.


Last edited by henkkjelle on Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
ClaymanOnFire
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:13 pm
Posts: 472
Location: Nice try, Big Brother
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:05 pm 
 

henkkjelle wrote:
@Erosion Of Humanity

That's personal proof, that doesn't qualify as real proof. What about Allah and great animal faced god somethingoranother? They also have believers. They can't all be right, but they an all be wrong. Especially when non of these gods have any real evidence going for them.

@ClaymanOnFire

To me morals are a evolutionairy process, and there is quite a bit of evidence supporting this.

Read the quote, it's specifically about the difference between herd instinct and morality.
_________________
"There's too many people on this earth. We need a new plague."

Top
 Profile  
~Guest 282118
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8300
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:14 pm 
 

Erosion Of Humanity wrote:
I believe that God exists to me there is evidence of this, sure science can't prove it, but to me there is evidence. So basically I can prove to myself that God does exist but you can't prove to me that walking under a ladder will bring bad luck. It's all in the eye of the beholder so to speak.

That isn't how evidence works, Erosion; you either have evidence that works for everyone, or you don't have it. As pointed out previously by Henkkjelle, personal proof doesn't even qualify as such.

As for a greater meaning to life..... I don't believe it's necessary. Life is too short, and I prefer to spend my time enriching my own existence rather than chasing a vague philosophical chimera. Sure, asking yourself why you're here and such is a nice little mental exercise, but it never goes beyond that. Kinda like solipsism, if you will.


Last edited by ~Guest 282118 on Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
Erosion of Humanity
Destroyer of the Gods

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:12 pm
Posts: 5898
Location: over yon hill
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:22 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Erosion Of Humanity wrote:
I believe that God exists to me there is evidence of this, sure science can't prove it, but to me there is evidence. So basically I can prove to myself that God does exist but you can't prove to me that walking under a ladder will bring bad luck. It's all in the eye of the beholder so to speak.

That isn't how evidence works, Erosion; you either have evidence that works for everyone, or you don't have it. As pointed out previously by Henkkjelle, personal proof doesn't even qualify as such.


Yeah I know that's why I put a disclaimer in there. I was offering my personal pov. But that's why they call believing in God faith, cause you believe even though there is no empirical data.
_________________
Man is truly a wretched thing, and the forest is committed to expunging him from existence.

Azmodes wrote:
It combines two of my favourite things: penis innuendo and derigin.

Top
 Profile  
henkkjelle
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
Posts: 4537
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:25 pm 
 

ClaymanOnFire wrote:
henkkjelle wrote:
@Erosion Of Humanity

That's personal proof, that doesn't qualify as real proof. What about Allah and great animal faced god somethingoranother? They also have believers. They can't all be right, but they an all be wrong. Especially when non of these gods have any real evidence going for them.

@ClaymanOnFire

To me morals are a evolutionairy process, and there is quite a bit of evidence supporting this.

Read the quote, it's specifically about the difference between herd instinct and morality.


I have read it, I still see both instinct and morality as a evolutionary process. Mind you, evolutionary doesn't have to mean that newly born human beings already have a sense of morality. It does mean that we are born with brains that allow us to form/take over morality.

You probably already guessed that I'm a hardcore materialist. I also don't believe in a soul either.
_________________
... just the bare bones of a name, all rock and ice and storm and abyss. It makes no attempt to sound human. It is atoms and stars.

Top
 Profile  
~Guest 282118
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8300
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:36 pm 
 

Erosion Of Humanity wrote:
Yeah I know that's why I put a disclaimer in there. I was offering my personal pov. But that's why they call believing in God faith, cause you believe even though there is no empirical data.

Aaaaaaand I'll leave this here. I don't want to get into a discussion regarding the concept of faith, mostly because I have no intention to piss anyone off right now.

About morality; I'm sure that it's safe to say that morality is dictated by the environment and personal experience, really. Not much to add to the subject besides that.

Top
 Profile  
mindshadow
Echoes in an empty cranium

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 2004
Location: Panopticon
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:37 pm 
 

Erosion Of Humanity wrote:
I believe that God exists to me there is evidence of this, sure science can't prove it, but to me there is evidence. So basically I can prove to myself that God does exist but you can't prove to me that walking under a ladder will bring bad luck. It's all in the eye of the beholder so to speak.


Many believe citing the simple fact that we're here. I think a lot of people do secretely believe in something, but are put off admitting this by all the dogma and way man has behaved over the centuries, especially toward weaker nations/people. Ever watched The Mission movie?
_________________
D - Fens

Top
 Profile  
ClaymanOnFire
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:13 pm
Posts: 472
Location: Nice try, Big Brother
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:08 pm 
 

henkkjelle wrote:
I have read it, I still see both instinct and morality as a evolutionary process. Mind you, evolutionary doesn't have to mean that newly born human beings already have a sense of morality. It does mean that we are born with brains that allow us to form/take over morality.

You probably already guessed that I'm a hardcore materialist. I also don't believe in a soul either.

Your idea of morality actually sounds pretty interesting. Did you formulate that yourself, or did you read it somewhere? I also think I understand where you're coming better than you might think, if I wasn't a Christian I'd probably be some form of nihilist agnostic. I'm really not nearly as convinced of my own beliefs as I'd like (I'm not sure anyone is), and that's why I like having these kinds of exchanges.

Erosion Of Humanity wrote:
Yeah I know that's why I put a disclaimer in there. I was offering my personal pov. But that's why they call believing in God faith, cause you believe even though there is no empirical data.

This is where I disagree with you. There my not be evidence in the traditional sense, but I believe it's there nonetheless.

Xlxlx wrote:
As for a greater meaning to life..... I don't believe it's necessary. Life is too short, and I prefer to spend my time enriching my own existence than chasing a vague philosophical chimera. Sure, asking yourself why you're here and such is a nice little mental exercise, but it never goes beyond that. Kinda like solipsism, if you will.

You don't find the possibility intriguing?
_________________
"There's too many people on this earth. We need a new plague."


Last edited by ClaymanOnFire on Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Top
 Profile  
~Guest 282118
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8300
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:14 pm 
 

ClaymanOnFire wrote:
Xlxlx wrote:
As for a greater meaning to life..... I don't believe it's necessary. Life is too short, and I prefer to spend my time enriching my own existence than chasing a vague philosophical chimera. Sure, asking yourself why you're here and such is a nice little mental exercise, but it never goes beyond that. Kinda like solipsism, if you will.

You don't find the possibility intriguing?

No, because I don't think there's such a possibility in the first place. As I said, it's cool to muse about it once in a while, either alone or with someone else, but I don't think those musings deserve much of my time.

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 11  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

 
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group