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UnholyBlasphemerAgainstGod
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:49 am
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:14 pm 
 

Today, I asked my parents a question that transformed into a big, awkward, drawn out argument about impressions. A little back story; I asked for some band shirts for my birthday -I showed my mom a hellhammer shirt (demon entrails). I got the 'good impressions, and how I want to be perceived as a good guy' lecture. Frankly, I don't really care what people think of me, which I think is the coolest way to be, and I don't agree with my parents. I ask you, people who regularly wear bands shirts, whom I presume feel the same as me, what is your opinion of good impressions (or what I like to call conformity)? This isn't about how my parents won't buy me band T-shirts (because I can use my own money to buy them, and they don't care if I have them anyways).


Last edited by UnholyBlasphemerAgainstGod on Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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henkkjelle
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:16 pm 
 

I don't really care what people think of me, which I think is the coolest way to be

Seems to me like your want people to think you don't care about what people think of you because it's the coolest way to be.
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UnholyBlasphemerAgainstGod
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Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:49 am
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:18 pm 
 

henkkjelle wrote:
I don't really care what people think of me, which I think is the coolest way to be

Seems to me like your want people to think you don't care about what people think of you because it's the coolest way to be.

No. My mom also said she thinks I'm just being "antagonistic". Isn't that kind of unfair to just assume that of me, or anyone?

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:21 pm 
 

Wear whatever you want casually, that's fine. But you really can't just "not care what anyone thinks of you" if you want to somehow become successful, or get really awesome jobs. After you're set in life...THEN you can not care what people think of you. It's all about context really. When you're with friends, just hanging around the house, chilling up at the mall or wherever people hang out - usually it's cool to wear whatever you want. But I'm sure I don't even have to say that there are different dress codes for different places in life.

And wearing Hellhammer Demon Entrails shirts, and most other kinds of really gory, brutal looking T-shirts IS antagonistic. That's kind of the point, isn't it? To shock and offend?

Personally I don't wear band shirts; no real reason...just never was a part of my wardrobe.
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Awblaster
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Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:07 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:22 pm 
 

UnholyBlasphemerAgainstGod wrote:
henkkjelle wrote:
I don't really care what people think of me, which I think is the coolest way to be

Seems to me like your want people to think you don't care about what people think of you because it's the coolest way to be.

No. My mom also said she thinks I'm just being "antagonistic". Isn't that kind of unfair to just assume that of me, or anyone?


With a name like "UnholyBlasphemerAgainstGod", it's probably a pretty safe assumption.

Also when it comes to metal shirts, being antagonistic is quite a big thing. There was a shirt a while back (I can't for the life of me remember the band right now) that had "Women are punching bags for my dick" on the back. That's not really the most pacifistic thing to have on a shirt.
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colin040
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:30 pm 
 

Not giving anything about how people think about you is sad. Caring too much about this is silly, too. I really agree with Empyreal here by the way. In order to find some sorth of succes in anything, you should care about things.

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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:40 pm 
 

There's a time and a place for everything. I just did an internship in an high school and it's safe to assume that I wasn't wearing my band shirts just like I wasn't wearing jogging pants. Even if you think you don't care what other people think of you, you do and we all kind of do. We live in a society where it's a necessity to care even if you want it or not. You're probably like 15 or 16 years old and it's ok to want band shirts but ask yourself if it's really what you want for your "identity" and try to conciliate that with your parents and if they don't want to pay for them, well it's not the end of the world, eh?
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Ancient_Sorrow
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:52 pm 
 

It's not as if I'd wear a denim vest to a job-interview. It's not about conforming, though. In an ideal world, I could wear it and indeed get the job, but as it stands now, recognize that a shirt and tie here and there is not conformity; it's merely greasing the wheels of the system to get what you want out of it; wearing inoffensive clothing in the workplace isn't about yourself, it's about protecting judgmental people from their own vices of prejudice and foolish-presupposition.

Ultimately, the only thing which annoys me is the fact that metal-clothes and long hair make a passive bad-impression on people before I have the chance to make an active good-impression by being a nice guy; But that rests on other people's ignorance, and no ill on my part.
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CF_Mono
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:52 pm 
 

You can represent yourself in unique ways without having shirts covered in gore and satanic imagery. That's cool if you're with a crowd that digs that, but for the most part, you're almost specializing yourself in a way if you wear that stuff all the time. When I buy shirts and patches I try and buy stuff that looks cool rather than offensive. Sometimes there's overlap, but for the most part I just want to represent the bands anyways, not any imagery. Maybe it's not as "metal" if you don't go around with the authentic merch but w/e... As a guitarist I'm more into technical music and I associate with people more through that than through metal.
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Panflute
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:59 pm 
 

It's all about context. If wearing a band shirt to work will cause people to take me less seriously, I will make the concession of not wearing it. When I'm out and about, I don't really care. I don't think first impressions are pinpointed towards what type of shirt one is wearing. If you are the stereotypical metalhead with long hair, a beard, etc. that may actually have an impact on first impression, but even then, who cares?
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iAm
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:22 pm 
 

Get a job and pay for your own damn shirts, kid.
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Erosion of Humanity
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:35 pm 
 

iAm wrote:
Get a job and pay for your own damn shirts, kid.


:lol:

One of my favorite band shirts is my Iced Earth Night of the Stormrider shirt but it says "fuck posers" in giant letters on the back so I always wear a button up pr something to cover the back. It doesn't bother me that it has that on the back but walking into a store it might be offensive to random people. You just gota use your brain dude. Honestly that shirt you want will more than likely hold you back cause weather you like it or not you're going to be judged by every body every day till you die. If you want to wear offensive shit (specially out in public) so be it just don't expect people to be cool with it.
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Xlxlx
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:38 pm 
 

As stated by Colin, Tony, and Emp, it's all a matter of context. Not caring about what people think of you is alright. Problem is that, sometimes, you need to make a good first impression, if only for your own benefit. I mean, you wouldn't go to a job interview wearing a Cannibal Corpse shirt, would you? Besides:
UnholyBlasphemerAgainstGod wrote:
Frankly, I don't really care what people think of me, which I think is the coolest way to be (...)

This is kind of an oxymoron, with an emphasis on the moron.
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OzzyApu
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:43 pm 
 

Erosion Of Humanity wrote:
One of my favorite band shirts is my Iced Earth Night of the Stormrider shirt but it says "fuck posers" in giant letters on the back so I always wear a button up pr something to cover the back. It doesn't bother me that it has that on the back but walking into a store it might be offensive to random people. You just gota use your brain dude. Honestly that shirt you want will more than likely hold you back cause weather you like it or not you're going to be judged by every body every day till you die. If you want to wear offensive shit (specially out in public) so be it just don't expect people to be cool with it.

Agreed. Others mentioned context and that's what it's all about. If you want to be non-comformist #1 then you can, but don't expect people to see where you're coming from when you do that sort of thing. I wear my Melechesh hoodie with inverted crosses and Rotten Sound - Exit shirt with the guy about to commit suicide (the red one) on it around campus and no one cares. However, if I showed up to work with it then it'll stand out more and someone's going to say something.

Don't look at it as "coolest way to be," but just being comfortable with yourself. That's how I look at it.
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Ancient_Sorrow
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:55 pm 
 

Ah, the thread got moved; I thought it had been vengefully immolated by orbital bombardment.
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Scourge441
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:38 am
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:56 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
And wearing Hellhammer Demon Entrails shirts, and most other kinds of really gory, brutal looking T-shirts IS antagonistic. That's kind of the point, isn't it? To shock and offend?

I think shocking and offending outsiders is a secondary concern for most people who wear band shirts. People wear band shirts in general to declare their support for a form of art that has had a positive impact on their life, and if they choose to wear particularly gory/"offensive" shirts it's because that style of art appeals to them personally. Sure, there are some that blatantly exist to offend, like the infamous Cradle of Filth "Jesus is a Cunt" shirt, but those mostly just appeal to juvenile idiots (like most of Cradle of Filth's fanbase) and the more serious/mature fans generally aren't as concerned with antagonizing outsiders, regardless of what shirts they choose to wear.

Metantoine wrote:
You're probably like 15 or 16 years old and it's ok to want band shirts but ask yourself if it's really what you want for your "identity" and try to conciliate that with your parents and if they don't want to pay for them, well it's not the end of the world, eh?

A 15-16 year old is still a few years away from developing a real identity and owning a few band shirts likely won't impact it down the road.

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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:02 pm 
 

Yeah, I moved it to the Tavern since it's not only about metal.

Scourge, that's false. Teenagehood is the most important time to develop an identity, it's actually where you do it. It's a crucial period and there's many important choices you need to do.
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MARSDUDE
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:05 pm 
 

Wear the shirt if you want to wear the shirt. Just don't be surprised if all the pretty ladies aren't lining up to ess your dee, and all your buddies now think you're a serial killer.

But, please-- don't wear a shirt, with disemboweled entrails, to a funeral. Even if they are demon entrails.

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Marag
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:10 pm 
 

If I had any shed of worth as a human I'd have a reason to care about making a good impression, but that isn't the case. But know that other people are going to judge you badly for wearing a shirt with a demon cock on it whether you appreciate it or not, don't jump into the fire if you don't want to get burned

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:17 pm 
 

Scourge441 wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
And wearing Hellhammer Demon Entrails shirts, and most other kinds of really gory, brutal looking T-shirts IS antagonistic. That's kind of the point, isn't it? To shock and offend?

I think shocking and offending outsiders is a secondary concern for most people who wear band shirts. People wear band shirts in general to declare their support for a form of art that has had a positive impact on their life, and if they choose to wear particularly gory/"offensive" shirts it's because that style of art appeals to them personally. Sure, there are some that blatantly exist to offend, like the infamous Cradle of Filth "Jesus is a Cunt" shirt, but those mostly just appeal to juvenile idiots (like most of Cradle of Filth's fanbase) and the more serious/mature fans generally aren't as concerned with antagonizing outsiders, regardless of what shirts they choose to wear.


Ah, but then, the intent of the band themselves in making such artwork and shirts is to shock and offend, or at the very least, to portray something that accurately sums up their shocking, extreme music. Nothing wrong with any of that, as horror-themed and really grotesque, bizarre imagery can be very cool. But really, a lot of the time its intent is just to be shocking and strange, and to look cool to boot.
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mindshadow
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:46 pm 
 

I often get descriminated against because of my looks and tattoo (singular), usually by old folk. This saddens me, as I watched a movie once where a guy kills (mostly by strangulation) lots of people, then buries them in his garden and under his property.

He dressed very respectably and talked ever so quietly - fooled a lot of people for many years (it was based on real events and one innocent guy was hung for his crimes, though he was later pardoned :) :???: )

Stop judging people by how they look, when some of the most prolific killers have been presumed to be pillars of society, just because they dress "normal" :fuck:
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Against Such Things
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:32 pm 
 

There's a time and place for everything. Of course you should wear what you want, but, as you pointed out, not everyone is going to agree with that. Sometimes the best thing you can do might be to wear something more "acceptable", like for a job interview. Maybe it is conformity, but there is a difference for conformity for its own sake and conformity for a good reason. In the vein of more personal relationships, you might find better luck starting out with something "tame" and then slowly acclimating the other person to your tastes, or really, anything that won't drive them away before you get a chance to explain why.
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UnholyBlasphemerAgainstGod
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Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:49 am
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:31 pm 
 

Well, I can't really attest to something like 20 replies. I agree with the 'time and a place' arguments. That seems to be about what my parents were saying, but they take it a little further, and say that they don't want me wearing it to college, which I think is just silly. That's the only place I'd be likely to wear the shirt, because honestly I don't really go places or do things. For me it's a matter of how I really like the style, and I think it looks good on me. I can't speak objectively, obviously, but when I say that not caring about what other people think is cool, it's just arbitrary. I don't mean it makes me look cool, I just think it looks cool. And nonetheless it's not like I'm applying for a job when I'm in college. I'm just there. I think it would be pretty damn shallow for someone to form an impression of me off my clothing. I'm a pretty introspective person, personally, I like to look past anything on the exterior of a person that may seem bizarre or unusual. Why should I care what shallow people think, especially when it doesn't even matter what they think. I think my way is cool, so what? Why do I have to conform to what other people think I should do?


Last edited by UnholyBlasphemerAgainstGod on Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:36 pm 
 

Important fact: our society IS shallow and yes, it sucks. You're being a little too utopistic about the whole thing.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:49 pm 
 

UnholyBlasphemerAgainstGod wrote:
Why do I have to conform to what other people think I should do?


Because otherwise you'll probably end up in your 30s living in your parents' house with no job, gf, etc?
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Thiestru
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:55 pm 
 

People will always judge you, but there are times when that matters and times when it doesn't. Act accordingly.

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UnholyBlasphemerAgainstGod
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:49 am
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:08 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
UnholyBlasphemerAgainstGod wrote:
Why do I have to conform to what other people think I should do?


Because otherwise you'll probably end up in your 30s living in your parents' house with no job, gf, etc?

Why do you bother making this point when I just said that I agree that there's a time and a place for it?

Also, we're talking about band t-shirts., not some debilitating social disorder.

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Ancient_Sorrow
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:18 pm 
 

Quote:
Why do you bother making this point when I just said that I agree that there's a time and a place for it?


It was a direct answer to what you asked; Why do you have to conform? because that. You even accepted that there's a time and a place; That's why; you have to conform because there's a time and a place to conform.

Unless you're asking why there's a time and a place, but that's more levels of discussion than I anticipate.
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volutetheswarth
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:14 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:
There's a time and a place for everything. I just did an internship in an high school and it's safe to assume that I wasn't wearing my band shirts just like I wasn't wearing jogging pants. Even if you think you don't care what other people think of you, you do and we all kind of do. We live in a society where it's a necessity to care even if you want it or not. You're probably like 15 or 16 years old and it's ok to want band shirts but ask yourself if it's really what you want for your "identity" and try to conciliate that with your parents and if they don't want to pay for them, well it's not the end of the world, eh?

Hit the nail on the head. I don't wear something with offensive imagery when around children because I'm not a dick, just like when I go for a job interview I don't wear something that makes people uncomfortable. Sure, if the imagery is not offensive by all means and I think non-metalheads generally have this attitude, but if it's a severed head with maggots bursting out show some restraint.

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dystopia4
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:46 pm 
 

What you wear obviously projects a certain image that people will judge you for before they really get to know you. Is that shallow? Absolutely, but that's just how society and people are and people who dress differently just have to deal with that. I'd like to say I'm above it, but I've been quick to comment negatively on emo fashion, so that's not true at all. Personally I don't think I'd wear a shirt with gore imagery (I don't really dress metal at all, don't really dig the look), mostly because I think the whole gore imagery thing is monumentally silly and overdone.

And just because this thread has to do with conformity and metal, I'd just like to say that I think it's false when people say that metal is anti-conformity. Sure, it's not conforming to "mainstream culture", whatever that is nowadays, but metal is one of the biggest subcultures around and it is largely conformist within itself. How many black or death metal bands have similar looking logos? How many offer little variation upon a preconceived formula? How many have lyrics and imagery similar to 90% of other bands in their chosen sub-genre? How many metalheads dress the same? I've often heard the argument that metal is about individuality, and for those reasons I really don't think that's more true than the next genre.
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Metallumz
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:49 pm 
 

This is something i've tried to get my head around personally aswell, having a metal 'rebirth' its made me realise just how stuck-up and ignorant people are of those different to them. Not just metallers but anyone who doesn't fit into the stereotypical polo-shirt and jeans.

Being 29 now i've gotten past the point of caring anymore, I spent too many years listening to other peoples opinions and there's a time in many peoples lives where you can only 'put up' with so much crap. I had a phase of listening to Dubstep, wearing trakkie tops and buying sports apparel. At the end of it I was still an 'outcast' no matter how hard I tried because everyone has opinions about anything.
Its only been this month where I've ditched the crap and started to enjoy the stuff I like again, mentally it feels liberating and like a weight has been lifted.

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HerrDerQual
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:28 am 
 

Honestly, I wear band shirts to advertise my affiliation with a band. They acts like a code between two fans who happened to meet in the unlikeliest spots. The added bonus is the "Nice shirt!" comments.
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BastardHead
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:57 am 
 

1) I wear my metal shirts nearly 100% of the time. It doesn't help me pick up women and probably makes a bad first impression, but I wear them anyway because I have an adorable face and fantastic personality and am just oozing with charisma. So I take it as a handicap in the interest of fairness to other men.

2) I also realize there's a time and place for everything, and since I'm not a kid anymore I don't sit here and get mad at important people thinking I'm probably a slob or a vulgar for wearing a shirt depicting bestial gangrape like it's some sort of personal slight against me. If that's how I choose to present myself, that's how I should expect people to react.

3) Ten bucks says OP is metaldiscussor666
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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:30 am 
 

I just watched a documentary about a guy who got his skull stomped in by punks who didn't like that he's a cross dresser, so yeah .. impressions matter.
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Nahsil
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:38 am 
 

Awblaster wrote:
With a name like "UnholyBlasphemerAgainstGod", it's probably a pretty safe assumption.


:lol:

I'm wearing a Kreator - PtK shirt right now. I'll wear it in public, but I won't wear it to work (where we have no dress code) or somewhere else I need to look "presentable." This shirt isn't for shock though; I just really love PtK.

I prefer to come across as a nice, friendly person, so I don't own many controversial or offensive metal shirts. This PtK is probably the worst offender, followed by Insect Warfare's "You Are Controlled" one with the grimacing human face with tubes coming in/out of it.

Just wait a few years and your misanthropy/anger/antagonism/desire for controversy will relax a little. There are more important things in life.

P.S. really, who cares about having to "conform" with how you dress? It's your attitude, personality, beliefs etc that really matter, and those are a lot more difficult for people to suppress.

You don't need pink hair, Hot Topic clothing, or even offensive metal t-shirts to express yourself.
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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4620
Location: 50 Forts Along the Rhine
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:56 am 
 

Nahsil wrote:
Awblaster wrote:
With a name like "UnholyBlasphemerAgainstGod", it's probably a pretty safe assumption.

[my PtK shirt is probably the most offensive one I own]


Ditto :metal:

The artwork is super-awesome. One of my favorite shirts.
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katatonia47
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:54 am
Posts: 272
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:25 am 
 

BastardHead wrote:
1) I wear my metal shirts nearly 100% of the time. It doesn't help me pick up women and probably makes a bad first impression, but I wear them anyway because I have an adorable face and fantastic personality and am just oozing with charisma. So I take it as a handicap in the interest of fairness to other men.

Hey, that's why I wear mine!
Definitely.
Completely true.
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Filosofuck
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:19 am
Posts: 75
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:19 am 
 

UnholyBlasphemerAgainstGod wrote:
Today, I asked my parents a question that transformed into a big, awkward, drawn out argument about impressions. A little back story; I asked for some band shirts for my birthday -I showed my mom a hellhammer shirt (demon entrails). I got the 'good impressions, and how I want to be perceived as a good guy' lecture. Frankly, I don't really care what people think of me, which I think is the coolest way to be, and I don't agree with my parents. I ask you, people who regularly wear bands shirts, whom I presume feel the same as me, what is your opinion of good impressions (or what I like to call conformity)? This isn't about how my parents won't buy me band T-shirts (because I can use my own money to buy them, and they don't care if I have them anyways).

Asking your mom to buy you a Hellhammer shirt is just about the most archetypical edgy thing you can do. Whether it actually is or not, it seems like a perfect example of a dumb teenager going through a "phase."
Metallumz wrote:
This is something i've tried to get my head around personally aswell, having a metal 'rebirth' its made me realise just how stuck-up and ignorant people are of those different to them. Not just metallers but anyone who doesn't fit into the stereotypical polo-shirt and jeans.

This "us versus them" mentality is absurd. The world is not made up of groups, but individuals, most of whom couldn't give a tenth of a fuck about your Suffocation t-shirt.
Metallumz wrote:
Being 29 now i've gotten past the point of caring anymore, I spent too many years listening to other peoples opinions and there's a time in many peoples lives where you can only 'put up' with so much crap. I had a phase of listening to Dubstep, wearing trakkie tops and buying sports apparel. At the end of it I was still an 'outcast' no matter how hard I tried because everyone has opinions about anything.
Its only been this month where I've ditched the crap and started to enjoy the stuff I like again, mentally it feels liberating and like a weight has been lifted.

If I had to guess, I'd say you were an 'outcast,' because you had no personality, and so you tried your best to fit in by being trendy.

Anyway, I don't have too much metal stuff personally, although I have some and will definitely amass a growing collection over the years. Still, I wear metal related clothes as fast as I can wash it, because I love the music and it's just so cool to me. Again, people generally care way more about your personality than what you wear, so even if I have on, for instance, my venom jacket, covered with goat's heads inside pentagrams, I never get any complaints. People do often ask me about band shirts and shit, and it's pretty much always positive. Of course, there must be a few who think less of me for it, but I don't mind that too much.

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Metallumz
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:02 pm
Posts: 146
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:11 am 
 

I've also noticed that if you walk around in obscure metal shirts (the kind of undecipherable symbols/logo) most people leave you alone because they haven't a clue that what your wearing is infact Metal or related to. Its always when i've been wearing the slipknot/korn/bizkit crap back in the day that I actually got any crap from anyone.

You're more likely to be a target of victimisation by wearing an all-apparel Slipknot hoodie/t-shirt along with dyed hair, spike bracelet, and with a mard-on walking around town. Than by wearing a underground black/doom metal shirt with a basic surplus Jacket.

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Kveldulfr
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 2450
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:57 am 
 

I wear metal shirts mostly when I go to gigs, get a tattoo or when I go out at night with my wife. I have a fuckton of them but honestly I don't use them fanatically, especially when you need to do important stuff and the appearance matters to get better results and give a more serious/better impression. I can't even show my tattoos at work and I'm fine with it. I can't use my 2 bullet belts at daylight; I can only go in a Rambo fashion at night and mostly to gigs :lol:

Also, I use metal shirts cause I like the bands/albums that the shirt displays. I don't give a shit if it looks cool to anybody else (although some people has asked me stuff like 'who's that band' or 'where did you get it'?).
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