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maidenpriestmanic
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:33 pm
Posts: 395
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:54 pm 
 

So i was listen to black flag and came across these songs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT8GV01Etw0 Three nights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKJZWdrr63M Nothing left inside

I know for the most part they are a hardcore punk band but a few of their songs sound proto doom or actually doom metal. Did have any doom or metal influences in general? Though if they do that might explain why they are the only punk band I like (that and I notice jazz and other genres in some of their songs too.)

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Oxenkiller
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 am
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:01 pm 
 

I don't know that they did. However, a few bands, notably St. Vitus, have cited Black Flag as an influence themselves. So, rather than them being influenced by doom metal, I think it was more the other way around.

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Xanzotire
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:49 am
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:05 pm 
 

It's rumoured that Ginn was inspired by Sabbath, though I have no idea how true that is. Perhaps noteworthy is that Saint Vitus were originally signed to Ginn's record label SST.
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maidenpriestmanic
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:33 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:06 pm 
 

I guess that makes sense, for some reason I was thinking doom is older than it actually is, maybe they had some black sabbath influence but idk. It seems punk influence alot of the metal sub genres.

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Xanzotire
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:49 am
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:10 pm 
 

Searching around I found the following from an interview with Greg Ginn:

Quote:
Oh yeah, I love metal. Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Rainbow—I guess ’70s metal is probably my favorite. I don’t like hair metal or Guns N’ Roses. But yeah, I love Uriah Heep, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath and a whole bunch of others. A lot of people are into early ’70s stuff, like Captain Beyond or Budgie; I like that stuff, but I think I like it developed further into the ’70s—Ritchie Blackmore.


From here.
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TheUglySoldier
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Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 3:44 am
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:08 am 
 

Where's OldManMetal when you need him?
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Veracs
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:02 am 
 

Rollins and Co have an admitted love of Black Sabbath. Those slower tempos are possibly an homage to them, it doesn't surprise me considering that My war is the band's most 'metallic' album.
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doomster999
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:37 am 
 

Undoubtedly, it was Sabbath's first album that spawned doom metal. Black Flag were hugely inspired by Sabbath and some of their songs have this sort of slow, gloomy and pounding atmosphere. But they're more regarded as a 'proto-sludge' band than a 'proto-doom' band and they were a massive influence on both Seattle and New Orleans scene and yea, Saint Vitus have mentioned them as an influence as well.
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299796kms
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:28 pm 
 

Flack and St. Vitus toured together, the latter covered Thirsty and Miserable, and Rollins spoke glowingly about Vitus in his book about his Flag days. His comments on Venom on the other hand are somewhat less positive :lol:
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kaax
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:18 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:05 pm 
 

iirc The Melvins cite Black Flag as more of an influence than Sabbath, so it's not hard to see a progression from side B of My War to the early Melvins material.

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maidenpriestmanic
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:33 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:35 pm 
 

Honestly listen through their stuff from my war and everything after they don't really seem like pure punk and some songs don't sound punk at all.

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Ill-Starred Son
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:39 pm 
 

maidenpriestmanic wrote:
Honestly listen through their stuff from my war and everything after they don't really seem like pure punk and some songs don't sound punk at all.


I've listened to My War for years and to me it just sounds like a slow heavy Hardcore album with some metal influences.

I see what you are talking about, they are "sludgier" than most other hardcore bands of the time, but I wouldn't call them a doom band at all.

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maidenpriestmanic
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:33 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:21 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
maidenpriestmanic wrote:
Honestly listen through their stuff from my war and everything after they don't really seem like pure punk and some songs don't sound punk at all.


I've listened to My War for years and to me it just sounds like a slow heavy Hardcore album with some metal influences.

I see what you are talking about, they are "sludgier" than most other hardcore bands of the time, but I wouldn't call them a doom band at all.


I only think those three songs are doomy but some of their later stuff seems alittle too complex for punk, usually punk and hardcore or atleast when I think of it are those 3 chord fast bands with a solo in the middle, but some of their later stuff has some sick ass kickin riffs IMO.

With that said I am not calling them a metal band.

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dystopia4
Veteran

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:47 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:37 am 
 

Those three slower songs on the end of My War are basically what inspired sludge metal. Scott Kelly has actually gone so far as to tattoo 'My War Side II' with the Black Flag logo on the back of his neck. Black Flag are known to be fans of Black Sabbath, and it certainly shows here, basically laying the groundworks for what would later turn into sludge metal. Without these Black Flag songs Crowbar, Eyehategod and The Melvins sure as hell wouldn't have made the albums they did.
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absurder21
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:51 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:59 am 
 

doomster999 wrote:
Undoubtedly, it was Sabbath's first album that spawned doom metal. Black Flag were hugely inspired by Sabbath and some of their songs have this sort of slow, gloomy and pounding atmosphere. But they're more regarded as a 'proto-sludge' band than a 'proto-doom' band and they were a massive influence on both Seattle and New Orleans scene and yea, Saint Vitus have mentioned them as an influence as well.

[2]

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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:01 am 
 

Yep, Black Flag can be indirectly blamed for a lot of the sludge scene. :)
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TadGhostal
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:31 pm
Posts: 815
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:35 pm 
 

Xanzotire wrote:
It's rumoured that Ginn was inspired by Sabbath, though I have no idea how true that is. Perhaps noteworthy is that Saint Vitus were originally signed to Ginn's record label SST.


It's pretty well known that Black Flag were hugely inspired by Sabbath. Around '83/'84, Ginn was said to be obsessed with the Heaven & Hell, Mob Rules, and Holy Diver albums. Those guys were also said to be totally head over heels when they first encountered Saint Vitus and Joe Carducci (former label manager/co-owner of SST), in his eulogy for Armando Acosta, said that Ginn was planning and slowed down, sludgey album even before Damaged was released.

The interesting thing, to me, is how a lot of the doom/sludge bands were connected to the punk scene. Bands like Saint Vitus and The Obsessed found audiences in the punk scene way before the metal scene caught on to them. Lee Dorrian came up through the punk scene, as did the guys from Eyehategod. Neurosis is another one that came up through punk/hardcore.

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Eh_Timeghoul
Be gentle, I was... Born This Way

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:35 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:44 am 
 

if anyone has that 'Black Sabbath: Black Box' (i do and can proudly say that it made me the person i am today) that has all the Ozzy albums, a book and a DVD.....that was put together by Henry Rollins

and people who were talking about Black Flag/Saint Vitus connection and love, well....you can only put so much into words, see for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABjq6ocg9To

that long haired fuck in the very front swinging his hips and that has their own queues to certain riffs....yup, Rollins again + not to mention Vitus are all wearing Black Flag shirts

point being, Punks love Metal and Metal loves Punk....pretty much always been that way, it's not that strange

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Det_Morkettall
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:02 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:59 am 
 

The Black Sabbath influence definitely comes out more in the album My War with slower tempos and more of a "wall of sound" type musical arrangement. Riffs are chunkier and the production overall is just muddy and dirty as hell, so I can see how Black Flag could be considered a proto-sludge band of sorts.
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