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centuryxiii
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:55 am
Posts: 7
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:58 pm 
 

The ones who came first saw the things first; explored, experienced, experimented and expressed the things first, but also left the newer generations with abundance of opportunities to advance and progress in their ideas - may it be in science and technology, philosophy, music, or anything else. But isn't it that everything has limit?

Personally, the query began when I was contemplating on how diversified the musical styles have become today, which have bestowed the listeners with those styles that no one would have imagined before. The striking new wave genres and subgenres were invented especially in the twentieth century - jazz, blues, rock, heavy metal, hip hop, trance, techno, you know better. Now, with tremendous experimentation, most of the styles sound to be nearing the saturation point. This has made new artists really difficult to sound 'original' and 'innovative' since many styles and possibilities have already been tried and tested, leaving only the non-obvious ways available, which are painfully tough to detect.

This is just a case in music. Same goes for scientific or management theories and principles. The ones who came first literally escaped with fame with relatively obvious statements, but the newer experimentation needed much bolder statements to actually make impact.

The world knowing more is obviously better, but still there are pros and cons of it, but the matter is which side weighs more. The existing tools, techniques and knowledge have given a very powerful platform to explore the ideas with further experimentation and to look beyond the horizons, but the fact that most of the obvious seeming thoughts and disciplines have already been touched, does that hint that the newer generation is turning lesser innovative? Or is it plainly the case that innovations are in verge of hitting their edges?

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inhumanist
Veteran

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 3918
Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:11 pm 
 

I don't know, there might be some truth in what you say, but maybe in 100 years people will look back and complain how easy we had it coming up with original stuff. How do you know most of the "obvious" innovation has already been done? Maybe that's just a reflex of blaming your own inability to come up with something world changing on the spot (which almost nobody ever did) on the supposed depletion of the "easy stuff" (I sometimes have that feeling myself). On the other hand, there are some fields where this is certainly true, for example the exploration of the continents is pretty much complete.
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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 1819
Location: In the Open Sea
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:07 pm 
 

Evolution is generally a gradual process. I'd say sit back, relax, have a few beers, and keep an eye open.

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soul_schizm
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:55 am
Posts: 627
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:57 am 
 

inhumanist wrote:
I don't know, there might be some truth in what you say, but maybe in 100 years people will look back and complain how easy we had it coming up with original stuff. How do you know most of the "obvious" innovation has already been done? Maybe that's just a reflex of blaming your own inability to come up with something world changing on the spot (which almost nobody ever did) on the supposed depletion of the "easy stuff" (I sometimes have that feeling myself). On the other hand, there are some fields where this is certainly true, for example the exploration of the continents is pretty much complete.


Yes, I would say that it applies more to a specific field. There's definitely a period of rapid growth and discovery, followed by a levelling-off and then a steady state. World exploration is one example. There are countless others.

The thing is, though -- many times that field of study leads to another. And then that new field experiences explosive growth, giving rise to yet another field. Standard atomic theory gave way to quantum theory. Metallurgy gave way to much more advanced materials and synthesis techniques. The list is pretty much endless.

I don't see an end to discovery, or creativity, in general.

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Scorntyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:55 am
Posts: 1003
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:02 am 
 

"In his 1843 report to Congress, the then commissioner of the Patent Office, Henry L. Ellsworth, included the following comment: "The advancement of the arts, from year to year, taxes our credulity and seems to presage the arrival of that period when human improvement must end."

The reason not many people invent things that seem dumbfoundingly obvious with hindsight is that, duh, it's really hard to have the vision to do it.
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Erotetic
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:05 pm
Posts: 681
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:07 pm 
 

I'll take good over innovative any day.

if someone can write a plain old DM song that appeals to me as much as one written ten-years-ago, that matters more to me than all the others written since which I really don't care for at all. ...'saturation', to me, means potential fulfilled, and therefore more of what I might like being out there. if they can't skate by on sounding unique, they'll just have to put out better* riffs and remind people why they enjoy the genre.

*and since one person's idea of 'better' is different from anothers', saturation means my idea of better is more likely to be satisfied at some point.
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Yahko
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:27 pm
Posts: 234
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:55 pm 
 

You are wrong. Innovation is growing at a larger speed than yesterday. You might be touching on a concept called "Creative Destruction" - where one innovation is replacing the other and making it almost obsolete. Using horses to farm - today its machines and not horses. Yes there are some who use horses due to economic/political issues but overall the innovation had replaced the old innovation.

As far as innovation in music - Dubstep! The one and only genre in the electronic music I can not stand, but you cant say its not completely new. It was literally invented in 2006. Inventors and innovators are not always getting credit for their work, in the technology fields especially. As far as dubstep was first introduced by a female DJ first, cant remember her name. Skrillex got all the fame. Being an inventor is a VERY hard thing.

Now being able to combine, shape, change existing innovations is the process of innovation. Changing things to make them faster, better, stronger cheaper. Just look at the phone we are using today comparing it to 20 years ago. Look at the forms of communication we use today comparing to 20 years ago.

Now there is a big question out there by economists and modern philosophers is that will happen when the speed of change would be so great that it would literally kill us or something. I guess thats more of a question that should interest you because the draining of ideas is far from happening.
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