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Messiah_X
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Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:38 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:35 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
Also, why isn't Astapor all full of ziggurats and pyramids? They're starting to make all the various foreign cities look more-or-less the same, sort of a generic Near Eastern look.


I've noticed this as well, and while it isn't the most bothersome thing I've seen on the show, it does show a lack of creativity. I can handle the slaver cities looking the way they do (although I do want to see the pyramids and ziggurats in Mereen at least) because that's more or less how I imagined, but they didn't do a good job with Qarth. In fact, they'd have me believe that Pentos, Qarth, and the slave cities are all basically the same despite being different civilizations in distant corners of the world. Qarth in particular was described as a rich and colorful city, something I imagined would look like ancient Istanbul/Constantinople, or possibly Rome. I'm hoping they get Braavos and Volantis right when the time comes. I imagined Braavos as a kind of hybrid between an ancient Greek or Roman city and Venice. Volantis made me think of India. I suppose we wait and see, but it would be a shame to see every non-Westeros location turned into a brown shade of ancient Arabia. They gave Winterfell and Kings Landing proper treatment, and eventually Essos is just as important to the story.

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Xlxlx
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:24 pm 
 

I can't give as much insight as the rest, considering I haven't read the books. What I will say though is that I liked the new episode quite a bit. Especially the giant. I'd really like to see one (or a dozen) of those stompin' around like crazy.
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Under_Starmere
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:44 pm 
 

Pretty much the same as Xlxlx said there. Just saw the premiere earlier tonight. Overall I was pretty satisfied with it. Giant was definitely one of the best bits. Seeing people agonize over the changes from the books just makes me that much gladder I haven't read them... as it is, I enjoy the show, and I'm sure if I was a book fan I'd probably be nerdraging with the rest of them ;)

Speaking of the whole homogenous "Middle Eastern" look of the cities across the sea from Westeros, I do think it's kind of funny that even in this fictitious world we still have "Europe" in the west and "Arabia" in the east... Though to be fair, we hardly saw any of Pentos (and it looked more Mediterranean to me than "Middle Eastern"), and Qarth had a pretty distinct look that Astapor didn't bring to mind particularly much.

I want Tyrion's face to be more mutilated.
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Xlxlx
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:59 pm 
 

Under_Starmere wrote:
I want Tyrion's face to be more mutilated.

This I agree with. When they first revealed the wound, it looked pretty big (even if his literary counterpart recieved a much worse injury, from what I understand), if not particularly grievous. Now it's but a glorified scratch.

Speaking of Tyrion; man, the part where Tywin pretty much tells him to go fuck himself regarding who's going to inherit Casterly Rock was really infuriating. It reminded me of how much of a heartless bastard the old Lannister is, which I had forgotten due to his lovely treatment of Arya in the second season.
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Razakel
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:36 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:08 am 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Speaking of Tyrion; man, the part where Tywin pretty much tells him to go fuck himself regarding who's going to inherit Casterly Rock was really infuriating. It reminded me of how much of a heartless bastard the old Lannister is, which I had forgotten due to his lovely treatment of Arya in the second season.


That was a great scene, eh? I'm always rooting for Tyrrion but Tywin totally ripped him a new asshole and it looks like shit is heading towards the fan. I don't see a problem with Tyrion's wound, in fact I like how Cersei said something like "they said you lost your nose, but it doesn't look too bad" or something, when she sees him. Nice shout out to the books.

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Xlxlx
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:16 am 
 

Oh yeah, the scene was great, considering it made want to stand up and tell the old bastard to go eat a dick then and there. Also loved the concept of the Immaculate Army (I think that was their name.....); man, those guys seriously went through hell to be what they are, and the fact that their trainer is a complete and utter douchebag doesn't help. Plus, Drogon and his brethren are like three times bigger now :metal: :love:

One thing I didn't like though:
Spoiler: show
That weird, metallic-looking scorpion thing they used to try to kill Daenerys? Yeah, I don't think the CGI was necessary there. Why not use just a regular scorpion or spider?
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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:43 am 
 

Under_Starmere wrote:
I do think it's kind of funny that even in this fictitious world we still have "Europe" in the west and "Arabia" in the east...

Westeros is less "Europe" and more "a really, really big Britain... with Spain stuck on the bottom."

Under_Starmere wrote:
Though to be fair, we hardly saw any of Pentos (and it looked more Mediterranean to me than "Middle Eastern")

In the books, it's pretty clear that Pentos and the other Free Cities (other than Volantis, maybe) are basically the Italian city-states. Braavos is pretty much Venice.
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Poisonfume
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:33 am 
 

I'm the guy who dislikes the dragons because of the poor CGI, but I disagree about the scorpion. I could barely tell that it wasn't a practical effect, so I thought it was well done. Loved the shininess and deep scarab green of the exoskeleton (maybe that's why it didn't look too cartoonish).

As for Tywin Lannister, I can't help but like him anyway because of what a badass villain he was in Last Action Hero.
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Azmodes
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:00 am 
 

Well, Charles Dance is an awesome actor in general. The perfect choice for Tywin, IMO.
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Xlxlx
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:34 pm 
 

I third the praise for Dance. He's a terrific actor. And man, I hadn't noticed he was the one who played the villain in Last Action Hero. Talk about the passing of time! :lol:
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luxul
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:22 pm 
 

^A buddy of mine called him "Take His Shoes" Lannister when he forgot his first name. :lol:
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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:18 am 
 

Changes to Robb had me eye rolling. His comment about Catelyn denying the Karkstark their vengeance is sooooo NOT ROBB. Ugh, stupid writers. Also, Qyburn's introduction was iffy. And I really, really don't understand where they're going with Shae. [massive ASoS spoilers]
Spoiler: show
So she's all fiercely protective of Sansa...? Huh? How will that work with her betrayal of Tyrion and him murdering her later? That's a poignant and important plot point and crucial to Tyrion's character development, they really can't screw this up... but I really don't see how they can make that work. :confused:


Decent episode otherwise. I'm ok with how they handled Barristan and Margaery. I'm also glad they kept Jon kneeling to the wrong man (and thought his explanation for "defecting" was satisfactory, since they obviously the cut the whole story about Mance's cloak and him being in Winterfell before and having seen Jon and all that) and the funny translations with Missandei (though I wish [minor ASoS spoiler]
Spoiler: show
they'd made it clearer that Dany did understand the High Valyrian dialect... or maybe they're keeping that for another episode where she replies in their language to their dismay, hah.
).
Also, I like TV-Davos a lot more than book-Davos... :oh shit: Liam Cunningham's delicious accent and his vague Jean Reno lookalike appearance might have something to do with it, I admit... >_>
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Messiah_X
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:42 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Changes to Robb had me eye rolling. His comment about Catelyn denying the Karkstark their vengeance is sooooo NOT ROBB. Ugh, stupid writers. Also, Qyburn's introduction was iffy. And I really, really don't understand where they're going with Shae. [massive ASoS spoilers]
Spoiler: show
So she's all fiercely protective of Sansa...? Huh? How will that work with her betrayal of Tyrion and him murdering her later? That's a poignant and important plot point and crucial to Tyrion's character development, they really can't screw this up... but I really don't see how they can make that work. :confused:



Here I thought they would FINALLY make it to Riverrun in the first episode, but LOLNOPE. I really hope they get him back on track soon, but now that they should be just about done writing him a whole new story, they can go back to Martin's story. I'm not yet sure what to think about Qyburn, but I knew that omitting the Brave Companions was going to cause some problems. Qyburn became one of my favorite characters later on, so I hope they don't screw him up. As for Shae...
Spoiler: show
I'm not so sure that her protection of Sansa and her betrayal of Tyrion are mutually exclusive. In fact, they may play into each other. In the book, WHY did she betray Tyrion? He lost his power (which she must have grown accustomed to), was to be married to Sansa, and oh, she was just a whore to begin with (poor Tyrion). Wait, married to Sansa? THAT's going to cause some problems in a kind of Tyrion-Sansa-Shae love triangle. They've also carefully foreshadowed Tywin's distaste for whores, so I think it is inevitable. With TV Shae being a lot more fleshed out as a character than book Shae, I can see any number of things leading to this: social climbing (most likely, now that she's accustomed to being more than a whore), jealousy (maybe this Shae actually LIKES Tyrion, but I don't like that idea quite as much as her just being a very good whore), or in some other way associated with her increasing bond to Sansa. I don't think it will be cut, if anything it may be a more dynamic death if you think about it. In the book, Tyrion essentially just got revenge on the lover who scorned him, but here he would not only be murdering his unfaithful lover, but also his new wife's close friend. I also have a feeling TV Shae will be more redeemable, and probably help in Sansa's escape later before her ultimate demise, making her death just a bit more tragic than it was in the books

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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:43 pm 
 

If what you say is true regarding Shae, (massive ASoS spoilers)
Spoiler: show
then Tyrion's murder of her will be even more despicable, since she's a far more sympathetic character. Yet so far, they've pretty much whitewashed Tyrion and made him into a much nicer and more sympathetic character than book-Tyrion (who was still likeable and sympathetic, but had a darker edge to him than in the TV version). So I really don't expect them to have TV-Tyrion do a huge heel turn like that and murder the more "likeable" Shae, it just wouldn't fit the way they portrayed both Tyrion and Shae in the series. I'm honestly confused and wary as to how they'll make this work. But I guess they might yet surprise me... I mean, Tyrion just learned that Shae's in danger of hanging, so an inevitable confrontation with her is imminent. Maybe they'll have an argument or a fight and something will happen that will foreshadow the murder... I dunno. Hopefully they keep the slap but they've already whitewashed him so much...

I just hope that they won't have Shae die in another way than Tyrion's hand. That would be simply unforgivable.
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Messiah_X
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:26 pm 
 

Regarding Shae (More MASSIVE spoilers)
Spoiler: show
Oh, they better not have anyone else do the deed... anyway, I agree that they have whitewashed Tyrion. However, I don't think he is really aware of Shae's bond with Sansa in the TV show as he has been much more preoccupied with the defense of King's Landing and his own family issues. What I foresee happening is more of a very unfortunate collision of circumstances instead of a truly despicable act. Very soon Tyrion is going to encounter what I consider some of his lowest points in the series. He has lost his position of authority, given no recognition for his achievements, forced into a marriage he doesn't even want, and (IF YOU HAVE OPENED THIS SPOILER TAG BY ACCIDENT, TURN BACK NOW!!!) blamed for Joffrey's assassination. Under these circumstances with the amount of resentment that has built up in him, and assuming he is mostly unaware of Shae and Sansa's connection, I could see him killing her out of the same selfishness that brought about her murder in the books. Another alternative (which I wouldn't exactly like, but might work better for TV's "sympathetic hero" Tyrion) would be an accidental death, similar to Michael's double murder in Lost. No matter what, Tyrion will go to Tywin's chamber and kill him. With the changes they've already made, who's to say he doesn't grab the crossbow and shoot Tywin first? And with the amount of adrenaline coursing through him at that point, he turns around, startled to see Shae standing naked behind him and his itchy trigger finger sends a bolt through her neck as well? Not exactly the end I hope for, but it would be tragic and keep with TV Tyrion's sympathetic character while essentially fulfilling most of the necessary story points. Anyway, I kind of think we're getting ahead of ourselves and discussing Season 4 now, so best to see how it plays out. Just a few more hours until episode 2!

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Messiah_X
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:31 pm 
 

Tonight's episode kind of negates some of my earlier speculation, but whatever. Overall, I thought it was great! Ok, some of that is because I'm clouded by introductions of characters I've been waiting for, the Reed siblings, the Brotherhood without Banners, and of course Ramsay! Ramsay was such a small tease tonight, but I like where this is potentially going. It doesn't quite make up for my disappointment over his part being cut last season, but it is a start. The Olenna Tyrell segment was fantastic, better than I remember in the books (and I'm glad they kept the subtle and generally irrelevant lemon cake reference). Sure, they didn't have The Bear and the Maiden Fair, but I didn't expect that anyway, and it would have been silly to have that same witty scene with a jester jumping around and singing. In other news, it looks like we may finally see Riverrun (2 seasons late, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for their budget restrictions).

Now, the ending. I liked the Jaime/Brienne fight. I've actually seen quite a few people call it "typical Hollywood feminism." Whatever, that's what happened in the books. Not only that, but as much as the Kingslayer has been hyped up as a great warrior, he had his hands bound and was likely malnourished and out of practice. Who cares, it happened in the book and they stuck to it. Now I'm a bit concerned with what they DIDN'T keep from the books - Vargo Hoat. I knew he was cut along with the majority of the Brave Companions, and I'm sure they'll tie it together somehow, but I rather preferred the "thaphireth" exchange. I'll admit, it would be a bit late in the game to bring Vargo now, but it just seems a bit cheap and far removed from the books to have Bolton men capture them at this point.

This was very much a transition episode with many of the major plot points developing next week, so we'll see what happens. The preview looked particularly promising - especially to appease my Ramsay fanboyism

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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:53 am 
 

That episode was weird. It was mostly okay and entertaining, but I hardly recognize the book at all anymore. The only scenes I recognized were Sansa with Olenna Tyrell (also guys make up your mind, Tie-rell or Tee-rell? :P) and Jaime vs Brienne. The Joffrey scenes were 100% filler again (yes yes he's a sadistic monster WE GET IT ALREADY), and "Reek" with Theon (which kinda happened in the books but all off-screen). I did grin like a fangirl when the Hound showed up though. This show always needs more Hound.

Regarding the Tyrells, when was (ASoS)
Spoiler: show
the marriage offer to Willas (which might turn into Loras, though he's Kingsguard now... or is he in the show yet? I forgot) made to Sansa? I thought it was during that same conversation with Olenna, but I wonder if they'll drop that plot point... :confused:


I miss Varys and hope to see him again soon.
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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Messiah_X
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:03 am 
 

Varys is one of my favorite characters in the book and on screen. I hope he comes back soon.

Joffrey's scenes have mostly been pointless filler to drive home his sadistic nature, but for once I was pleased with his parts. Ok, the scene with Cersei was mostly filler, but the scene with Margaery was brilliant. Actually, it was ONE part of the scene with Cersei that really drove it home for me - when Joffrey tells his mother "smart women do as they're told." Ok chauvinistic dickhead, you win this round! Fastforward to the scene with Olenna, where in both the book and the show she is clearly digging for information on Joffrey in order to better find flaws which Margaery can exploit. Here is a smart woman who clearly does NOT do as she is told. Ok, now skip ahead again to the scene with Joffrey and Margaery, Joffrey being his usual sadistic monster self and Margaery endowed with a bit of newfound insight on her future husband. Sure, the scene further and unnecessarily proves Joffrey is an irredeemable cunt (for which there is no cure). But what I really liked about that scene was the way Margaery played him like a violin. I'd go so far as to call that a good Margaery scene and not even a Joffrey scene.

As for Ramsay, I'm kind of excited to see where this goes. One of the strengths of the show for me has always been the "behind the scenes" action, and this is one area which I think I will particularly enjoy. I like where they're going with this so far and ideally the best thing they can do with this is show
Spoiler: show
Theon's loss of humanity and transformation into the wretched Gollum-like Reek


I'm still not sure if the Shae/Tyrion this scene disproved or reinforced some earlier speculation. I'm going to hold off until I see more.

Oh yeah, and I always went with Tie-rell


Last edited by Messiah_X on Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nahsil
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:17 am 
 

Yep, that's what I liked about the scene too. More of the same from Joffrey, sure, but Margaery is clearly way more clever than he is, and she's playing him hard.
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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:16 am 
 

I like their Olenna so far.
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nasum
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:34 am 
 

Ok, so I've watched it. I was kinds expecting Dany, book readers know what's coming up, I guess it's in next episode.

I'm bit upset about Sam's portrayal, seriously will he always be like that? And the way they reference to Renly, I didn't get he was gay while reading books, I realized it watching the series and that slurping scene with Loras. Now it turns out he was running joke of the seven kingdoms, I bet even Hot Pie knows he was gay.

All other changes are already pointed out by other posters, though I want to say I don't like how characters differ from their counterparts in books, especially Tyrion, he has sinister side in books, how he will

Spoiler: show
kill Shae by strangling her when she's portrayed like this in series? I hope it won't go into her being jealous of Sansa after Tyrion-Sansa wedding, she's supposed to be gold digging whore, and that's how I remember her. And, other thing, since Jaime was captured by Boltons, I hope they won't spoil the Red Wedding, this must be absolute shocker for those who haven't read the books.


Also, I like how there weren't any boobs in this episode, was this first episode without naked scenes?
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:12 am 
 

I liked the parts with Arya, Thoros of Myr is awesome! But the parts with Cathelyn are WTF STOP THIS SHIT. Man, this is even more filler than Joffrey + Cercei. At least the boring "I don't want flowers on my jacket" will serve a clear purpose=
Spoiler: show
they want us to really hate the kid when they'll kill him but it's unecessary to make us like Cathelyn and this is not what is written in the book


The parts with Jaime and Brienne were well done too, shame that Vargo Goat got replaced though :(

I want to see more of Dany and Arya and less of Shae, please. Sansa's scene wasn't boring this time, like TBIB said, Olenna is cool.
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Messiah_X
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:58 pm 
 

nasum wrote:
Ok, so I've watched it. I was kinds expecting Dany, book readers know what's coming up, I guess it's in next episode.

All other changes are already pointed out by other posters, though I want to say I don't like how characters differ from their counterparts in books, especially Tyrion, he has sinister side in books, how he will

Spoiler: show
kill Shae by strangling her when she's portrayed like this in series? I hope it won't go into her being jealous of Sansa after Tyrion-Sansa wedding, she's supposed to be gold digging whore, and that's how I remember her.



I was discussing this just yesterday on here. Read the spoiler tagged conversation just up the page if you're interested. That said...

Spoiler: show
I think the strangulation scene is out completely. Remember he strangled her with the Hand of the King NECKLACE which was replaced by a pin in the show (maybe he'll stab her with a pin?) Long story short, they've made Shae more of a character, and her death will likely be the result of a falling out between her and Tyrion or an accidental death. I actually like the fact that it will probably differ from the book a bit since now I can speculate, and I don't know exactly how and why it will occur

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volutetheswarth
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:44 pm 
 

I like hearing the theme music, especially at 1:32 when it gets all operatic and epic sounding. I always think of Ned Stark and horrors that have befallen the Stark family.

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Scorntyrant
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:05 pm 
 

Yeah, the woman who plays Shae is a suprisingly good actress, considering that she used to make hardcore porn.
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:28 pm 
 

If Game of Thrones was on MTV or Fox, Shae would had been played by Sasha Grey and Tyrion by Verne Troyer. Ok, I want to see that NOW!
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iAm
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:31 pm 
 

:lol:

What if... What if GoT was really just a ploy by HBO to introduce proper acting and plots into pornography?!
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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:22 pm 
 

Scorntyrant wrote:
Yeah, the woman who plays Shae is a suprisingly good actress, considering that she used to make hardcore porn.

Weird, most people keep saying she's terrible. :lol:

I have little opinion on the matter, because I find her accent distracting and they changed her character so much from the book that I can't really judge her properly.
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7741
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:26 pm 
 

Yeah, I'm really not a fan of TV-Shae. I'll be extremely unhappy if the speculation here about her ultimate fate turns out to be true. What a way to ruin Tyrion's character.
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gomorro wrote:
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Under_Starmere
Abhorrent Fish-Man

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:00 pm
Posts: 4201
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:47 am 
 

Messiah_X wrote:
But what I really liked about that scene was the way Margaery played him like a violin. I'd go so far as to call that a good Margaery scene and not even a Joffrey scene.


Yeah, exactly. What the hell, people, slow-moving dialogue scenes aren't automatically "filler." ;) A lot of these develop the emotional/manipulation/power dynamics between characters and deepen understanding of their motivations and psychology. Feels weird even having to say that. Some are more substantial than others, though.

What the hell was Catelyn on about with her speech regarding Jon? She was making it sound like she thinks her inability to love Jon caused all the Starks' misfortunes. That was fucking out of nowhere, unless she's taking it to some religious guilt place (it's all my fault! everything, always!) that was just sort of badly written and ambiguous.

And yeah, the Shae actress is pretty bad... though acting in a language that isn't your own has always gotta be awkward.
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Messiah_X
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:38 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:04 am 
 

Yeah, I really didn't like that Catelyn scene, it was weird and didn't work for me. Even as much of an apologist as I am when it comes to book/show differences, that seemed like a very unnecessary out of character scene. I don't like the way they sugar-coated the Jon/Catelyn relationship on the show. Even if we needed more brooding Cat, she would never reminisce about Jon with such remorse (if and when she even reminisces about him at all).

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9452
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:06 am 
 

That scene was beyond retarded and shows the writers have no clue about what kind of character Catelyn is meant to be. They're idiots.
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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Under_Starmere
Abhorrent Fish-Man

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:00 pm
Posts: 4201
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:30 am 
 

Hmm... seeing as I'm not of The Book People, I can't know where you guys are coming from, precisely, but it did seem like an odd writing choice. Since we're supposed to know that she apparently worships the "new gods," the ones with "all the rules," I assumed maybe she was viewing her oath-breaking weakness as some guilty stain that was bringing divine wrath down upon her house. That was really the only sense I could make of all that. Having not read the novels I couldn't tell if she was supposed to be really religious and have martyr fantasies or something and they just hadn't brought that across well enough in earlier seasons. Or...or what. I also thought that the "remorse" and "reminiscence" Messiah_X mentioned might alternatively be interpreted more as self-loathing and self-pity than anything... not that she felt bad about Jon's misfortune but rather her own. Again...not a book person.

Also, anyone else think the long-anticipated fight between Jaime and Brienne was one of the dullest parts of the episode? ;) Who's with me?!? Eh... You'd think HBO could afford a decent fight choreographer.... though come to think of it, none of the fight scenes in this show have been very good.

Oh and another thing. Are we given to understand that some huge fight went down between the Night's Watch and the undead army north of the wall? The way the Crows were talking this episode made it seem that way, yet the only evidence we saw of a possible battle in the first episode was one (1) beheaded watchman. Unless I'm remembering wrong... And the group that saved Sam's ass seemed more like a rescue party than some battle force. If there was a massive fight, why weren't more of our familiar Crow faces gone? How did they find Sam so quickly? Where the hell are the undead now? This all might be clarified more later on, but as of now Benioff & Weiss got sum 'splainin' da do.
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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:51 am 
 

Yes, there was a battle that wiped out the majority of the Watch expedition. It happened "on screen" in the books and it was awesome, taking place at night and with a fucking zombie bear, and I was unhappy with its removal.

The group that find Sam are meant to be the bloodied remnants.
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gomorro wrote:
Fortunately the seminar started and when it finished, I runed away like if Usain Bolt were about to rape me.

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in_human_form
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:08 pm
Posts: 639
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:22 am 
 

Under_Starmere wrote:
Also, anyone else think the long-anticipated fight between Jaime and Brienne was one of the dullest parts of the episode? ;) Who's with me?!? Eh... You'd think HBO could afford a decent fight choreographer.... though come to think of it, none of the fight scenes in this show have been very good.

Oh and another thing. Are we given to understand that some huge fight went down between the Night's Watch and the undead army north of the wall? The way the Crows were talking this episode made it seem that way, yet the only evidence we saw of a possible battle in the first episode was one (1) beheaded watchman. Unless I'm remembering wrong... And the group that saved Sam's ass seemed more like a rescue party than some battle force. If there was a massive fight, why weren't more of our familiar Crow faces gone? How did they find Sam so quickly? Where the hell are the undead now? This all might be clarified more later on, but as of now Benioff & Weiss got sum 'splainin' da do.


I think the clunky nature of the Jaime-Brienne fight made sense, as Jaime was tied up for a long time, probably malnourished, and rusty as hell with a sword. At the end it seemed obvious that Brienne was just toying with him.

Also I hate how the show writes out basically all the battle scenes (except for Blackwater). The ongoing battle between the NW and wights and Others was such a tense part of the book, but in the show it looked like almost nothing happened. Also, when I read that part of the book I pictured the fight as basically being in the middle of a blizzard, but in the show there was no snow falling. I think Sam's collapse would have been more believable if the weather was harsher.

I also hated that Catelyn scene, but really liked all the Margaery scenes (just for the dialogue, I swear!).

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9452
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:04 pm 
 

Yeah, the Night Watch scenes were terrible. All the sense of urgency from Sam's escape is gone, there is no blizzard, no pursuing supernatural enemies, hell you don't even know what really happened. I understand budget restrictions, but really, a toned-down version of the battle of the Fist couldn't have been possible? Just hide most of the effects required through a blizzard veil, come on.
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 2022
Location: In the Open Sea
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:13 pm 
 

Under_Starmere wrote:
Oh and another thing. Are we given to understand that some huge fight went down between the Night's Watch and the undead army north of the wall? The way the Crows were talking this episode made it seem that way, yet the only evidence we saw of a possible battle in the first episode was one (1) beheaded watchman.[/i]

Yeah the Battle of the Fist is not only tense and good, but also important. what the fuck ..

Morrigan wrote:
That scene was beyond retarded and shows the writers have no clue about what kind of character Catelyn is meant to be. They're idiots.

Oh good. So things are going well, then. Jeez this last page is making me not want to bother watching.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9452
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:16 pm 
 

Well, I'm a harsh purist. To be fair, it was just an individual scene that alone didn't ruin the episode. But I'm not sure what to think of this episode. I think I just really don't like Vanessa Taylor's writing. The very best scenes of the episodes were those ripped straight from the book: Tyrion and Tywin, Sansa and Lady Olenna, and the Jaime vs Brienne fight (I wanted the "wench" lines though :(). Some added scenes were pretty good (if redundant, like the Margaery scenes with Joffrey, and Theon), others were just plain bad.
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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 Profile  
Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 2022
Location: In the Open Sea
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:23 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Well, I'm a harsh purist.

I support that. It isn't like they're just cutting out huge parts to make it fit in a given time frame (the way people have done for ages with Shakespeare, hacking at will). They're basically rewriting an already written and perfectly good story .. and doing so poorly, apparently. But maybe that's an overstatement..

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nasum
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:42 pm
Posts: 295
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:59 pm 
 

OK, let's diverge a bit to books since there's no books thread (or is there?). Martin says he wrote quarter of the winds of winter. That's around 400 pages, if twow turns to be 1500 pages long.
Now, he said he cut 200 pages from dance and will put them into winds, which means he wrote 200 pages in two years, since dance was released. Which is terribly slow.

Now, what I wonder, besides will he finish it, does he actually want to finish books? He's getting involved more with HBO and the series. So I wonder what if he actually prefers not writing last two books and doing it as TV series? I know it sounds outrageous, but seriously, he's hardly progressing and show will catch with books. And he said he told producents how it ends in general and I presume series will go on no matter if he finishes books or not.

Your thoughts on this?
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heavymetalbackwards wrote:
nasum wrote:
that is Rage Against The Machine, not metal.

It's probably his idea of metal. That Black Sabbath and Trouble stuff doesn't have enough gangsta giving the finger.

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