lol:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/oh-shit-i-totally-forgot-that-happens,32673/

Please tell me you're taking the piss...

Some short observations from a non-book reader:

Robb was tremendosly stupid for asking Walder help, taking into account his betrayal. It was obvious he would pay for it, especially considering the old man was an asshole and Robb knew it from the start.

I don't understand Theon's current status at all.

Daenerys' arc has been pretty boring and that haven't changed much. The taking of the last city was pretty lame but I hope she'll get a bigger army and finally move in maybe 2 more seasons - if it ever happens. I still try to understand the House of the Undying stuff, cause it was a huge mess and I think it was something important, maybe it was better explained on the books.

The remaining Starks's fate are totally pointless by now, since there has been no explanation of any importance for finding the 3 eyed crow.

For now, I'm waiting for Stannis to move and Joffrey to fall (let's face it, the child will be vanished sooner or later). The throne stuff has been too quiet and guessing from GRRM style, I'm sure he did something on the books to reactivate the plot.

Jon Snow's fate is more interesting, although he has no home where to come back.

Without actually spoiling anything, some observations taken from the show to reply to your own thoughts:


That was a hurdle Robb couldn't avoid. He was kinda screwed, and the sad thing is, he would have been no matter if he had married Walder Frey's daughter or not. He needed men. After executing Lord Karstark, he lost the Karstarks. Before then, he was already losing the Boltons to the influence of the Lannisters. The actions of his uncle, Edmure Tully, were less than impressive. His family house was in shambles; its capital lost to the Iron Born who were now invading the North. A very big loss to prestige, especially given he wanted to use Theon to create an alliance. It was a shit show. He made a lot of bad mistakes, and his marriage to a woman that was not Walder Frey's daughter was the icing on the cake. The fact that he had to grovel back to Walder Frey and seek forgiveness goes to show he was getting desperate.

That said, and this was shown but not really explained in the show, the Starks felt relatively "safe" initially at the wedding. In Westeros culture, there is a "guest rite" that is given by a host to their guests, which basically ensures their safety while under the host's house. That was the whole salt and bread bit at the beginning of the last episode. It is such an ancient tradition, that the idea of breaking it is considered incredibly taboo and (for many who view themselves as "honorable") as something that could never be broken. Obviously, Walder Frey broke that and frankly never gave a shit about it... but that sets a bad precedent.


It's not really apparent at all, though there are clues throughout the season so far about who and maybe why. [Morri: I disagree, you only see those clues because you're a book reader, non-readers have pretty much no way of knowing without being led on by book readers... so I've spoiler-tagged this bit.]


The whole last season with Dany was a bit of a confusing mess, because (personally) I didn't feel like they did any of it justice. Her whole story arc has been boring, largely because she's still in the process of growing. Keep in mind that when she started, she had nothing. Now she has an army that has laid siege to two cities. She's pissing off a lot of people, and changing the political landscape of Essos. Kinda makes you wonder what she's going to accomplish, and whether she might ever achieve her goal of leading an army over the sea towards Westeros.


Well, two things. The House of Stark, as a huge political player, is dead now. So I guess in that way the Starks are somewhat pointless. That said, the remaining members of that House are still politically important and (increasingly) important to the whole magic story arc that's been going on with Melisandre.

Firstly, keep in mind that the House of Stark is still traditionally and legitimately the "authority" of the North, so the remaining members of that House all have strong claims to ruling the North. This is why Tywin married off Tyrion to Sansa. It is also the reason why all sorts of folks are still searching for the remaining Starks; they all want a piece of the pie! From everyone else's perspective, Bran and Rickon are dead. They were murdered by Theon. So it's assumed Sansa and Arya are the last members of the Starks with any legitimate claim to the North.

Secondly, that whole bit with Bran and Rickon is more important to the other story arcs in the show, namely to the magic one. Bran is beginning to exhibit behaviours you don't find in many people south of the wall, and even some behaviours you don't see in anyone (the ability to control minds). He keeps on dreaming of this "three-eyed crow" that keeps haunting him, meanwhile the closer to the wall he gets the more powerful he is getting with his powers. We've already witnessed the power of R'hillor in Melisandre's magic, and in the Brotherhood of Banners. So the idea that magic is important to the plot line is pretty obvious. So it begs the question. If the only magic we've witnessed, so far, that has had any meaning is through R'hillor... and Bran isn't dreaming of R'hillor... what does that tell us about this "three-eyed crow"? What might that tell us about the Wights as, essentially, zombies not unlike Lord Beric for the Brotherhood without Banners?


Maybe. Right now the Lannisters are more powerful than they've ever been. More powerful than even after Ned Stark's execution or the death of Robert, after which many people assumed would lead to some form of payback. Instead, we have yet another negative for the Starks, and another positive for the Lannisters. On top of that, they now have an alliance with the Tyrells, have married a member of their own to the last known Stark, essentially control the South, and have allied themselves with the biggest players in the North (Bolton and Frey). So even if Joffrey falls or dies, does that really even matter?

As far as Stannis' move, I think it's apparent that he's waiting on Melisandre's magic to work. He does as she says, and right now they have a curse through R'hillor on three "usurpers". If that succeeds, it's fairly obvious that Stannis would try to fill the vacuum he perceives would be left over. Melisandre's whole plot point seems geared towards a greater plot point about leading the most powerful people in westeros towards following R'hillor.


Inadvertently, because of his job (as Night's Watch), he's the focal point for the plot with regards to what's going on beyond the wall. Just think about this. Everyone up until this point has known that "winter is coming." Seasons in the world of Westeros and Essos last a long time, so the idea of a long winter is both frightening based on economic and social factors, but it's also rather frightening because "boogeyman" are known to assert themselves during periods of winter. Unlike in previous years, there's a lot of things stirring and going on beyond the wall; wildlings are on the move, wights are being seen more often, and the legendary creatures of old are being observed for the first time in a long time. It makes you wonder what the hell is going on. So while everyone else in Westeros and even Essos is so drawn up in this political drama or in grand strategy... even amongst the Night Watch themselves... it seems the big question that's being ignored is this whole idea that winter is about to arrive.

...Huh? The hell has Melisandre to do with Bran's powers?


What indeed? There are various types of magic that we've seen so far in the series (book and TV); warging, greensight (Jojen Reed's), the red priests's powers, Mirri Maz Duur's blood magic on Khal Drogo, the dragons hatching, etc. and each person performing it might credit some god or other for it (in the north they credit the old gods, Melisandre credits R'hllor, Mirri Maz Duur credits her Great Sheperd, etc), it doesn't mean Bran has anything to do with the Lord of Light, or that the wights beyond the Wall are related to the red priests's resurrection powers.

Especially considering the wights really are unlike Beric Dondarrion... they're mindless creatures, inanimated corpses completely controlled by the White Walkers. Beric still has his identity though he's slowly losing it.

(Also, it's R'hllor. Sorry, but that constant misspelling bugged me! )

Thanx to both! I overlooked a couple of things there. I guess it's time to give a chance to the books.

If you enjoy the show you'll definitely like the books. Don't be put off by their length! The way they're structured, each chapter is from the point of view of one of the particular characters. Because there are so many different plots going on at the same time, the end of each chapter (which are usually only like 10-15 pages or so) basically leaves you hanging, wondering what will happen with that character next. So basically every single chapter is like "getting back to the story" of that character, so it's constantly engaging. Also, since the books are of course more detailed than the TV show, the characters are fleshed out even more and are easier to remember.

Lenght has never been a problem when it comes to reading and thanx to the series, the books are very easy to find. I'll get the first 3 the next week to start.

It's a misunderstanding on my part. What I mean by Bran and Melisandre is the possible connection they might have:



I wasn't really referring to the other magic, I mean the primary magic plot lines which seem tied to Melisandre and Bran.


My eyes were terrible, and I forgot how to spell it.

A Dance with Dragons:
------------------

Everyone check this out, GRRM reveals future spoilers!

http://teamcoco.com/video/george-rr-mar ... s-spoilers

Kingslayer, the first Westeros heavy metal band... HAHAHAHA

False. GRRM should have checked Metal Archives first. These bands TOTALLY came before Kingslayer!

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Winterfell/3173

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Sev ... oms/108082

the biggest clue to who is torturing theon was in season 2, especially the "prince of winterfell" episode(episode 8).

But those bands's members don't live in Westeros!

I'd listen to Kingslayer. And Jaime already has the metal look.

Didn't Jaime go on to drum for Def Leppard?

That is the funniest shit I've read all day. Thank you for that.

(Random thoughts about the finale)

How about that, Ned Stark's bastard did manage to get shot with an arrow or three after all.

When people said they expected the final scene of the season to be the reveal of I thought there was a decent chance they'd be proved correct, but I guess that has to wait until season 4.

And I really feel like we should have met by now.

A really good finish to season with only a slight lacking which I'll get to.

I'm always going back and forth on Tywin, on one and he's a cold bastard to people who don't disserve, then again he can turn it on people who disserve it like he did to Jeoffrey tonight. I do wish we could get more reactions to Jayme's return tonight, but it'll have to wait till next spring (the wait for these seasons is a bitch).

The parading of Robb with the wolf's head in front of Ayra was just cruel, but it led to easily one of my favorite moments this season, possibly the whole show. I never thought I'd cheer so much for a 10 year old girl knifing as bastard in the throat, but I was tonight.

I've been critical on Jon's relationship with Ygritte, feeling that it doesn't feel real, however, her shooting him has felt he most legit the entire show. Now that Jon and Sam re both back in the watch, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

Onion continues to be one of the most likable characters in the show. He gladly saves someone's life and will not hesitate to take the fall for it. And yet, he manages to stay alive. Also, it for some reason feels good to see someone not in the north give a shit about the walkers.

My one major complaint is about the ending scene. It was bad, but he problem I have is that past seasons ended on a scene of epicenes. First season ended with the birth of the dragons and Daenerys rising from ashes after surviving a fire. The second season ended with the reveal of the White Walkers and an army of Zombie soldiers. This ending was a crowd surfing savior of slaves meant to give a lovely dove feeling. It just lacked that jaw dropping feel of the past two episodes.

[spoilers from all books]


Didn't like how utterly whiny Jon sounded. "I have to go hooooome " ugh.

I loved, LOVED the story of the Rat Cook and explanation of the guest rights followed by showing Walder Frey. That was awesomely done, probably my favourite scene. Well, that and Tywin being a douche to Tyrion (again), that was a powerful scene, well written. Joffrey being a petulant bitch and telling off Tywin was great too.

Edit: sorry, no, my favourite scene had to be: "Hodoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooor"

Something that confused me about Asha Greyjoy. She said "the narrow sea". Is she really gonna circumnavigate around all of Westeros to go to the Dreadfort (which is on the Eastern side)?
[all book spoilers]


Finally Arya murders the shit out of someone. About time. Valar morghulis.

Well, the season is over, and I have some mixed feelings about the finale. I'll preface by saying that this season was MUCH stronger than last. I think that while the finale had plenty of great moments, I was a bit let down (possibly by preconceived expectations, partly by the powerful shock of episode 9). I'll go into the good and the bad, but this will have a lot more spoilers for next season than usual, so open spoiler tags at your own risk.

The good:
The opening scene!!! I was really afraid that they were going to cut the wolf's head part out since it was basically exposition in the book, but wow, way to rub salt in a fresh wound! Even more effective was the way they had Arya witness it. I would go so far as to say that the desecration of Robb's body was better in the show than it was in the book - an actual emotional moment vs an expository sidenote. Would have been nice if they showed them throwing Catelyn's body into the river though. Roose Bolton really came into his own this episode as well, both in the opening scene where he absolutely relishes the carnage all around, and his conversation with Walder Frey which finally puts to rest all theories about what happened to Winterfell (you have no idea how hard it's been to not spoil that for my non-reader friends).

Bran's scene was excellent. The Rat Cook story was perfectly effective, both for a nice nod to the books and to further explain how severe Walder's crime was (not murdering fan favorite characters, but breaking guest right). That last shot with his party venturing beyond the wall was pretty cool. As for next season:

Arya and the Hound slaughtering Freys was a nice touch. Sure it wasn't in the book and I kind of expected more movement in her story, but it was a nice reminder about the coin Jaqen gave her, and damn did Arya kick some ass!

Reek, reek, it rhymes with freak! YES! They finally gave Theon his new name, and we can start calling Ramsay by his real name now. I love the way they're portraying Ramsay in the show. Not sure what they're going to do with him next season because we can't just keep having torture scenes every few weeks, but here's an idea:

The Stannis scenes were pretty good, and I like how they ended his arc with the cliffhanger about going to the north. Another good back-and-forth between Stannis and Davos as well. Overall, they haven't handled Stannis as well as they could have for the show, but it's getting a bit better.

Jon and Ygritte. I thought they were missing that bit last week and I'm glad they added it now. His reunion with the Night's Watch was a perfect end to his arc this season, and he's in for some excitement next season.

Tywin putting Joffrey in his place. Excellent. Loved it. His conversation with Tyrion was nice too. You can usually count on small council scenes being pretty good.

The Bad:
Wow Asha/Yara, I never know you cared about Theon so much! Seriously, wtf was that about? Good point by Morrigan as far as the map, but regardless of that, wtf! This requires some book spoilers, but let's just say I wasn't too happy with this change. I will say that I liked the early exchange after Ramsay sent them Theon's dick-in-a-box. Anyway, future spoilers if you want them:

Tyrion and Sansa early in the episode was a bit strange. They just seemed too happy. I kind of got that they were trying to make it seem like things could work out, only to crush Sansa with the news about Robb and Catelyn, but it just seemed to move too quickly. Last time we saw them together they were absolutely miserable, and now they're cracking jokes and having a good time together? Eh, whatever, it's a minor nitpick, but I didn't care for it. Speaking of Tyrion, I really didn't get the point of the Varys/Shae exchange.

The final scene. It was a powerful scene in the book and it worked for me in the show, however I really wish they downplayed it a bit and gave something else more impact. In terms of season finales, the show has historically played up a supernatural element for the final scene (Dragons in S1, White Walkers in S2) and they kind of just dropped the ball by using a scene that could have fit just fine in the middle of the episode. Furthermore, they already gave Dany a final scene back in the first season, so why end with her again? This is a big part of my expectations and speculation being let down but...

Jaime is back at King's Landing a bit early. Probably not a big deal but...

All in all though, it was a great ride this season. Much better than last season in so many ways. I'm really looking forward to next season. Now let's just hope and pray to the old gods and the new that GRRM finishes the damn novels before it catches up to the show

I agree with most of your post, except this (Storm of Swords major spoilers):

Yes, but crossing a war torn country with a group of enemy iron-born killers who aren't really worth much salt on land is perhaps
slightly more far-fetched....? Or, they would have to traverse through the Neck which:



In actual earth history, some travel between the east and west coasts of the US was done via ocean routes.

I really loved the small council scene; Tywin Lannister is easily my favourite of the 'bad guys' here; more so then the books. Truly a man you would not wanna fuck with.

Bring on Season 4!

You know, I remember his line about avoiding more war and killing more thousands by justifying what he did the wedding.....and while I'm still reeling on what I witnessed in Episode 9 and too a level tonight (the head of the wolf on the body....just wow), he does have a point. That's something I actually kind of like about him, he has justification for what he does, unlike a lot of other unlikeable characters who are assholes because they can be.

^Lord Tywin (I assume you refer to him as 'he') did it because it was an easy solution to his problems. I can't see how that act will stop the war and we know how these people love revenge. You could assume that generations of Starks are going to want Lannister, Frey and Bolton blood for millennia. In effect, this would cause more bloodshed. If he wanted to stop thousands dying, he would call a ceasefire or withdraw his troops back to Casterley Rock.

I just love his utter ruthlessness.

Obligatory:

^^^

In other news

Ok, so I just finished season 3, and have been reading through the first book. First things first, I'll go onto the first season to book comparison. God damn, that is a brilliant book to TV cross over, I didn't find anything particularly glaring absent, obviously the wolves were more awesome, and Catelyn had a few lines where she was harsher on Jon, but otherwise, nothing of significance was lost for me. Sure no dreams and junk, but I hate that stuff, so that's a positive, I don't think GRRM really has a pure mastery of the written word, and it really is his plotting and interactions are what makes the book so good, rather than his prose or descriptive language, so the show was really able to capture that well. And all the casting was absolutely perfect too. Really, the first season show is just as good as the book for me, although I have a feeling the book will take over considering how weak I found season 2.

As for season three though, I'm a little bit unsure on what to make of it. My primary issue with season two, being that the episodes jump around spastically in two minute shots, has largely been fixed. I didn't notice any episodes that really left me cold and confused as to what happened, and every episode was wise enough to ignore a few characters. On the other hand, a fair few of the plots were dull/not to my liking. Firstly, Theon getting tortured for 10 minutes every episode is fucking dull, not to mention that the fake escape was one of the stupidest things I've ever seen put on television. Kings Landing was largely uninteresting, yet it seems as if due to it's former importance the writers felt it still needed lots of screen time, resulting in a multitude of pretty flat interactions between good characters with not much to do, such as the three thousand Cersei->Tyrion->Joffrey (Seriously, they had nothing for him, so he just pops up every half hour to threaten something villainous)->Bronn->Sansa conversations which don't really lead to much. The Tyrell women and Tywin are really the entire regions strong points, but overall the whole region could have been halved. North of the wall was also quite drab, I keep feeling Jon's plot should be something amazing, but it basically involves standing around in the snow and a tacky romance. Robb continues to be stagnant and uninteresting.

As for the ones I flat out dislike, I still really, really hate Dany so much. I want her to die so someone not awful can take her place, because she is a mountain of annoying shit. This season is possibly even more annoying than last, I mean, last season her parts were probably worse than they would have been due to their disjointed delivery, but this time everything is given enough room to breathe, which lets us see in full vision how much of a self important, expectant spoilt little brat she is. And this season is even worse because she just gets shit for saying she deserves it, she's pretty much exactly her brother with a "hero to the common man" aspect thrown in. She gets armies in contrived fashions, (No one ever pretended to buy slaves then told them to kill the slave trader before), she wins another army because she looked pretty, she earns the adoration of a nation through a speech: all of her scenes are "I AM DANYRES AND I AM ENTITLED TO THIS" followed by her fucking getting it! FUCK HER TO DEATH!

Stannis' side actually moved out of the realms of pure dislike, he's still dull personally, but the more concentrated screen time has allowed Davos to flourish. But it leads me to my biggest concern to the series; it's becoming far too fantasy for my liking. Sure, it's a fantasy show and all, but I've liked the way the show originally started with it's more farcical elements. Sure there were dragons and zombies and magical rites, but I guess there was nothing that really rubbed me the wrong way about that. I disliked Qarth, but as I've read, that was a show only issue, with the actual books keeping inline with the original magical rules of sacrifices and rituals over spell casting, although the books also had dream sequences and prophecies, which I'm infinitely glad the show scrapped, those things are truly some of my most hated things about the genre. Sadly, this season showed a few more trends I couldn't really get behind on the fantasy front. Most damaging for me was the Wargs, For whatever reason dragons, giants, zombies and shadow monsters birthed from vaginas are ok for me, but animal possession, and even more off putting, a main character being born with special magical powers, just goes too far into Legend of the Seeker realms for me. It really has killed the whole Bran side for me, which is a shame since I quite loved his adventures before this. The Red Woman is still pretty contentious for me, mostly because her magic seems to actually present that a god DOES exist in this universe, and it's actually doing stuff, yet people still treat them as purely spiritual things to decided by the individual, much like a modern society. The brotherhood also present this issue which doesn't work for me personally. Likewise he hunt for "royal blood" has me a little concerned. It hasn't had the confirmed effectiveness of her poison resistance or the brotherhoods ability to revive the dead, instead being merely circumstantial in it's use, but since none of her magic has ever failed, it does seem as if her magic could use it. The blood of royals actually being different to commoners feels so... Disney... I've liked how the high born people have largely not been granted any special abilities, something unusual for fantasy (Dany, obviously is an annoying difference, Bran has become one), this sort of plot point erases this for me.

My final issue was the inclusion of a few "fake danger" large scale action scenes. It's odd in a series which has time and time again shown that no one is safe, that simply by presenting a scene in a certain way can makes characters feel as safe as they would in a PG rated kids adventure. Two of these really stood out this year, the dramatic swinging by a rope off the edge of a wall scene, and the bear pit, they felt genuinely cheap and without threat, even as a non reader with no idea of what would happen. For instance I'd seen people bitch about how "obviously" Arya wouldn't get caught by Littlefinger when she was serving Tywin, where as to me it seemed possible, (I mean, it was basically the same with the Hound this season and he saw her), so I feel as if simply knowing the actual outcome was their reasoning, that is not the case here. The scenes are traditional pulpy action set ups and even in the bloody world of westeros, it still feels harmless.

So, what's the good after all this? Jaime and Brianne's plot was interesting enough, I liked the fleshing out of Jaime's king slaying story and character in general, although it suddenly makes his willingness to chuck kids out the window kind of odd, seeing as, without that original act of heinous villainy, he's kind of a witty larrikin who under his carefree misdemeanor hides a man who still sincerely wants to help others, I know the idea is to show that he's complex and all, but it's one I didn't follow along with fully. At any rate, it was enjoyable, and his major event actually shocked me more than the red wedding, if only because he's much more interesting than the others. I also liked Arya's overall despite not a whole lot of activity, I think they should just throw away the book and just have her, the Hound and Jaquen running around the countryside, killing assholes next season, because that would rule.

"Farcical," really? Did you mean to write "practical" and get auto-corrected?

Not that I'm trying to dismiss your criticism of the show, since I'm in pretty much the same boat as far as not enjoying it as much as I did during season 1. Part of this is my own fault: I watched the first season knowing only that the King and Sean Bean would die, but everything else that happened was a surprise. Then I got into the books during the break between seasons 2 and 3, removing any suspense about who was going to get maimed, married, and killed.

Recently I even find myself getting annoyed by characters the show probably wants me to like. I'm sure Tyrion is a fan favorite, and I still like him for the most part, but sometimes I feel Dinklage overdoes the accent. At least he's not as bad as Ygritte though. Every time she opens her mouth it sounds like a combination of nails on a chalkboard and fingers on a balloon. Her voice, her facial expressions, her stupid catchphrase all add up to produce one of the most unlikeable 'good' characters on any TV show I'm currently watching.

I'm getting pretty tired of the "Dany is so entitled!" criticism, because it's complete 21st-century morality bullshit

The Iron Throne has belonged to the Targaryen dynasty for 300 years, and this only recently changed in a violent rebellion where the entire family was wiped out except two children. All her life, Daenerys has been told time and time again that the Iron Throne belonged to her family (which is true) and that it was stolen from her family by a usurper (which is also true -- she also doesn't know the rebellion had justification), and that her brother was slain in battle and her father, niece and infant nephew were all murdered (which is also true). What else can she do except to fight back for what she believes is hers by right, and take vengeance on those who slaughtered her family? It's pretty much her only purpose in life.

Viserys wasn't an asshole because he thought the Iron Throne belonged to him, he was an asshole because he was intensely abusive to his sister and pretty much everyone else around him, he cared only about himself, and he took anything less than complete deference as an insult. But he wasn't just hot-tempered and petty, he was a giant coward too, impatient and completely delusional. Had he taken the throne, he'd have been closer to Aerys or Joffrey.
Stannis isn't an asshole because he thinks the Iron Throne belongs to him, he's an asshole because he considers burning children alive to do it (luckily, he comes around).

This isn't the 21st century, where the ruler of Westeros is elected democratically and people have to "deserve" the throne. It's how monarchy works. It's how the laws of succession work (keyword: law). For one thing, it's okay for Dany to have character flaws, that makes her a more interesting character, but the "entitlement" about the throne isn't even one of those flaws, really. Saying she's just like her brother "with some slave-freeing thrown in" is really, really missing the point. The "throne belongs to my family" bit (along with hair colour maybe), is literally the only thing they have in common.


Also, complaining that the bear pit scene wasn't "tense" enough is, once again, missing the point. You aren't supposed to fear for Brienne's safety (though, actually, I've seen people say they did think she'd get killed right there, so...). The point of the scene is to show Jaime's huge heel face turn. And for that, it was extremely effective.

Lastly, I don't understand how anyone can have a problem with warging (and have no problem with the rest of the magic...?). Warging is awesome and full of interesting possibilities. Any comparison to Legend of the Seeker is such supreme bullshit, I don't even --

tl;dr: If you have a problem with monarchs wanting to get back their thrones after exiles, and magic powers, this show isn't for you and I suggest you stop watching, because these aspects will not go away. They may, in fact, only become even more prominent.



That I didn't stop reading this post after this line is a testament to my foolishness, really.

Thing is that the TV show hasn't that descriptive and his harsh times happened quickly. I also dislike the character cause basically she gets everything she wants easily and, besides being able to control those not big enough yet dragons, she seems to be pretty useless. I mean, she does practically nothing worthwhile for herself, she just goes here and there and people love/follow her for whatever reason.

Still, I don't think she'll do something amazing in the next season either. She'll probably keep herself wandering for more people to follow but she won't be a real threat to Westeros in a long time - maybe she's STILL wandering (I haven't read the books yet).

Jon Snow was terrible in the last ep. Ygritte did a way better job IMO. Davos rules, so much more than the lazy ass of Stannis.

I sense much of the "entitlement" sentiment about Dany doesn't arise so much out of the fact that she has a legitimate and lawful claim to the throne... I don't doubt many people disagree with that... but that she is still a pretender to a throne in a place she has never been before. You see it even these days among the old royal houses of Europe that have long lost political power, but still see themselves as legitimate political heirs simply because their family controlled a kingdom for x number of years. By the definition of the word people who are pretenders are entitled, and it's how they act about that entitlement which determines how people react to them.

I, personally, have the opinion that Dany really doesn't know any better. Her whole life has been about people shoving down her throat how her family are the rightful rulers of this distant place called Westeros. Her family essentially died for that claim, and so for her that claim is her family duty. I get the sense, though, that given time and entrenchment in Essos, it would probably get to the point where her goals in life would change. But, that's assuming time. And I have a feeling one way or another, she'll likely be brought into the power vacuum of Westeros eventually, and will then end up having to make the choice of seriously pursuing her claim or not.

I laughed hard when Ygritte shot Jon full of arrows, hell hath no fury like a jilted ginger! The scene where Jon ditched her in the previous episode was even better. I didn't like how he claimed to still love her though because the whole logic of the 'bros b4 hos' ditching scene was that he realized she's a crappy human being in the moment where he looks back at her and she tells him to murder the nights watch groom, why else would he leave her behind? Seems like they lost the plot there.

In other news, the dragon queen plot is bloody awful compared to the rest of the show, I just fast forward through those scenes at this point. It was a mistake in the first place but it completely jumped the shark when they added that Fabio looking swashbuckler mercenary with the cocky smirk permanently painted on his face; he's not a character, he's a harlequin romance novel cover illustration. Not to mention that the messianic portrayal of the queen herself is one dimensional and nausea inducing. Woohoo, its a medieval civil rights movement with dragons! She even has a token black female sidekick (the only black character in the show at this point?) in case the parallel wasn't obvious enough to anyone; who needs subtlety when you can bludgeon your viewers! You can tell this is the crappiest plot because 90% of the viewer-pandering and wish fulfillment fantasy happens in it, whereas with characters like Jaime, Arya, the dwarf guy, we get more grit, a sense of irony, a sense of tragedy; actual meat on them story bones. Hopefully the dragon wench civil rights army all drown in a big hurricane on the way across the sea in season 4 episode 1.

Oh, you sweet summer children...

Well, I can certainly tell you never read the books.

Regardless of which side of the fence one is on, book-reader or non-, I think it's safe to say that there's something amiss with the way the show is handling Daenerys' storyline. The depth or arc or marrow of her tale is a lot clearer to those who've already read the books, of course, and I'm sure it's impossible not to see it through that lens if you're a reader...but the fact that so many show-only people find her plot thin and boring suggests they're just not really bringing it across very well, if indeed it is any better or deeper in the books. I wouldn't know if it is, but so far I have to side with the folks who just find her whole side of things pretty unrealistic, tepid, and weirdly devoid of any struggle. Even the struggles she has endured I haven't really felt were struggles in a real sense - chalk it up to mediocre acting or bad direction/writing or whatever you want, but everything in her sphere seems a lot more hollow than most of what else we see in the show (at least post-season 1)... it just feels like lazy writing, honestly, and how are you supposed to take that seriously? It's hard for the viewer to buy into her story because its writing and directing don't inspire the desire to. If it feels like the writers barely bothered to show up, why should we?

I definitely think Dany's part in the show is the least interesting, yeah, but Rild voiced it in the most retarded possible way and completely missed the point of it.

I didn't mean that, but I also didn't mean the word I wrote either, that was just illiteracy on my part it seems. I think I mean "fanciful", but that's not really what I meant either, just a plain wrong word really. Basically my point was I like they way the show originally dealt with the fantasy elements, which was indeed more "practical" I suppose, with it based around complex ritual and whatnot, whereas now you've got characters born with magical abilities that they never knew they had a junk, seems much more in line with common fantasy fodder than how it all started.

Now for Morrigan...

Firstly, yes, she does have a valid claim to the throne, so does Stannis, so did Renly, so did Joffrey (kinda), my issue with her is that her entire character is being that claim. She doesn't play the intelligent games of Cersei, she doesn't have the military strategy of Robb or Stannis, all she has is demanding stuff and getting it. All the people around her are enthralled puppy dogs and she doesn't actually DO anything to warrant her successes (Obviously, she outwitted the slave trader, and her vapid companions, but as I said, it was a stupid scheme). All the other major characters are born into a position and role where they have the backing and influence to be major players, but it's still up to their own skills and abilities to make use of it, she doesn't have the second part, she's just born into it and good things flow. Hell she would have been killed by that new guy if she didn't think she was hot, he successfully snuck into her camp and had her alone, so her entire plot hinged on the fact she was great enough of a beauty to sway him. That is exactly Snow White... I was using a bit of hyperbole with thing with her brother, she obviously lacks the awful nature of him, but her insistent "THESE THINGS ARE OWED TO ME" parts are similar. I'm probably more angered by this due to how good her story began, I loved the Dothraki, and her brother was almost as vile as Joffrey, and really, her transition from frightened girl to confident leader was wonderful, but it really has gone to total shit for me. Unlike killing Ned, removing the powerful figurehead in Khal Drogo didn't work in that plotline for me, ever since she was left alone I haven't been able to believe her second rising at all. I am hoping the books will be able to continue to present her in a light I enjoy, and that it's simply the TV show that hacked her plot to pieces with shitty structuring.



Basically just responding to this, that's exactly what I'm getting it. It started off with those things being pushed aside, which was what made the series stand out from the masses of fantasy works, obviously, along with the excellent plotting and characterization, but making the action political, strategical and intelligent with all those traditional elements pushed aside really made the setting and world of Westeros far more inviting for a bitter old man with no sense of wonder, but as you say, those things have become more prominent, which is my issue, and it genuinely flies in the face of what I was drawn to. Now all I've really got is surprising deaths and a few enjoyable characters, which is enough to keep me watching, but not enough to keep me liking it as much as I once did..

Born into it? So was Viserys, yet "things didn't flow" to him. Funny that. I wonder if decision making didn't had something to do with it... How utterly preposterous that she didn't do anything and has no leadership skills. She's still growing, obviously, he's a young girl, only 17 (she started as 13 in the books), but you expect her to be a military commander like Stannis?

(Daario sneaking into the camp was stupid, I'll grant you, and it didn't happen like that in the books. Hell he was wearing an Unsullied outfit, obviously he murdered one for it, Dany would certainly have objected.)

Also:


x 10

In regards to Daenerys storyline. I have an opinion/semi-spolier.