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Hircine
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:13 pm
Posts: 936
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:39 pm 
 

"I don't care who Robb's getting his allies from, just show me some battles!"

Quite honestly, you never see any battles in the books aside from Blackwater either. Robb isn't a POV so you only hear what he's done second hand and while there might be a bit more of a battle in GoT before Tyrion gets knocked out (been ages since I read it), you still don't get much there.

I just think that action isn't Gurm's strong point unlike an author like Joe Abercrombie or something.
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Messiah_X
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:44 pm 
 

volutetheswarth wrote:
I'm calling it like I see it. Perhaps those stories are leading to something special but for now they are extra baggage and complicating an otherwise entertaining show. Less is definitely more, that's why season 1 was so enticing and addictive. Additionally, if there were less sections being told we might actually get to see those demanding battles that have only been spoken about thus far.


At the risk of sounding like one of the elitist book purists (I actually REALLY like the show, despite reading the books as well), I think you have the wrong idea here. This is a much more complex story than Starks vs Lannisters vs Dragon Lady. The other houses ARE equally important. Season 1 was simpler because it was more or less a prequel to the main action of the series, the calm before the storm. Looking back I remember the outrage when Ned Stark died (how could you kill the main character so soon!?) I remember the hordes of fans demanding that they bring Khal Drogo back. The thing is, season 1 was the setup for a far more complex series of events. The people waiting for huge battles with white walkers and dragons and barbarian warriors beating the crap out of each other are going to be sorely disappointed, as the real main character of Game of Thrones is complicated political intrigue and tension between the noble families. Cut out the Baratheons or the Greyjoys and you're missing a big part of the puzzle. And with the Tyrell family JUST NOW coming into the fold, and the Martells not even introduced yet, there is a lot more political fighting to come before we see the epic battle of dragons and white walkers. I will admit though that the show could do a better job of tying some things together instead of making all these related scenes seem disjointed and unconnected.

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Under_Starmere
Abhorrent Fish-Man

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:00 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:01 pm 
 

Grave_Wyrm wrote:
Scorntyrant wrote:
It's like bacon - not essential for most recipes, but I dont know anyone who complains if they find some in their dinner.

My only problem with it is that it wastes screen time. To go with the bacon analogy, the meat was every meager second of Mance and Mormont, and the empty calories of fat is Poonmaster Podrick. :ugh:


Yeah, my thoughts as well. In a show like Spartacus you expect shit like this; it's all part and parcel of the decadent carnalfest. Here it just feels like they're wasting valuable time. Seeing as they're already shortchanging plenty of subplots due to time constraints, there's no real excuse for that kind of thing.

Quote:
I liked the image of the man in the suit. A kind of HBO censor who makes sure that sex is included.


His name is Nelbert Wanker, he takes his morning coffee black with two Viagras, and he really, really loves his job.

@volutetheswarth The complex plot is part of what makes the show interesting. If it were simplified the way you describe it wouldn't allow for nearly as many variables, twists, and dynamics. It is a lot to juggle and the fragmented nature tends to slow the momentum of things, but I'm positive the story will be better for it in the long run.

On a misc. note: What in god's name happened to the undead army that steamrolled the Watch force? They just wander into the sea or something? Where the hell were they even going in the first place?
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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:06 am 
 

http://www.facebook.com/groups/22047744 ... 680759466/

Oh lawd.
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Grave_Wyrm
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Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:07 am 
 

Under_Starmere wrote:
On a misc. note: What in god's name happened to the undead army that steamrolled the Watch force? They just wander into the sea or something? Where the hell were they even going in the first place?

If I remember correctly, the Watch is basically just walking faster than the undead army. They can't camp, they can't stop, they just walk for days straight until they get to Craster's. That fuck. He's really well cast.

Also, where were who going in the first place?

:lol: Nelbert Wanker is THE MAN!!
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HellBlazer
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:33 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
http://www.facebook.com/groups/2204774465/permalink/10151864680759466/

Oh lawd.


Book spoilers in the comments on that page, just a warning.

Also, I'm glad that person is not in charge of the show.

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HellBlazer
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:39 am 
 

Under_Starmere wrote:
What in god's name happened to the undead army that steamrolled the Watch force? They just wander into the sea or something? Where the hell were they even going in the first place?


Their objective was to assault the Fist of the First Men, where the Night's Watch was entrenched. And that's what they did, off-screen.

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Messiah_X
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:53 am 
 

On the topic of the current Night's Watch plot, for book readers, any theories on:

Spoiler: show
when the Sam the Slayer bit will take place? I was expecting it in episode 2 when they were marching back and Sam delayed them, but nothing happened. Then next episode they're already back at Craster's. We know what's coming next episode, so I don't think unless they really rewrite things for the worse that the white walkers will appear at Craster's keep, meaning that they have to save this for later. This is an important bit that really can't be cut (not only is it a pivotal part of Sam's growth, but it's an important world-building revelation on how to combat the Others) so I expect it will happen. Unfortunately I'm starting to think that only Gilly will be witness to it which means Sam is still a bumbling idiot in the Watch's eyes, unless they have him stroll back into Castle Black later as some new badass. Any thoughts on how they'll get around this?

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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:07 pm 
 

Messiah_X wrote:
On the topic of the current Night's Watch plot, for book readers, any theories on:

Spoiler: show
when the Sam the Slayer bit will take place? I was expecting it in episode 2 when they were marching back and Sam delayed them, but nothing happened. Then next episode they're already back at Craster's. We know what's coming next episode, so I don't think unless they really rewrite things for the worse that the white walkers will appear at Craster's keep, meaning that they have to save this for later. This is an important bit that really can't be cut (not only is it a pivotal part of Sam's growth, but it's an important world-building revelation on how to combat the Others) so I expect it will happen. Unfortunately I'm starting to think that only Gilly will be witness to it which means Sam is still a bumbling idiot in the Watch's eyes, unless they have him stroll back into Castle Black later as some new badass. Any thoughts on how they'll get around this?


Spoiler: show
Good question, and no kidding. Hopefully we'll get some flashbacks or something about the battle. I want to see three things: the wall breach, the ravens being released, and the wight pulling itself up the spear.

Either Sam will get Mormont's knife, or Ghost (who's lurking outside Craster's) will lead him to the buried stash, a walker will be coming for that baby that was just born and Sam will kill it. Then no one will believe him until Jon gets back. I hope I'm wrong.

[[SPOILER PERIMETER TORCHES]]

Also with so much material missing, [[NERFED]] "the next death" is going to be pathetically supported, I'm sure.
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Messiah_X
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:04 pm 
 

Grave_Wyrm wrote:

Spoiler: show
Good question, and no kidding. Hopefully we'll get some flashbacks or something about the battle. I want to see three things: the wall breach, the ravens being released, and the wight pulling itself up the spear.

Either Sam will get Mormont's knife, or Ghost (who's lurking outside Craster's) will lead him to the buried stash, a walker will be coming for that baby that was just born and Sam will kill it. Then no one will believe him until Jon gets back. I hope I'm wrong.

[[SPOILER PERIMETER TORCHES]]

Also with so much material missing, [[NERFED]] "the next death" is going to be pathetically supported, I'm sure.


Spoiler: show
Sam presumably already has the dragonglass dagger in his possession since they found the stash at the Fist in season 2 (off-topic, but does anyone remember if they found the horn as well? I don't remember at the moment). I see this going two ways, the first being an attack by the Others at Craster's keep which I really wouldn't like, and Sam saving Gilly and the baby from a single white walker, which I suppose I'd find a bit more acceptable although I'll miss "Sam the Slayer." I guess I wouldn't mind them throwing in a running gag where nobody believes that Sam actually killed a white walker because they weren't there to see it (and call him Sam the Slayer in a more snarky, sarcastic way), but I suppose we'll see what happens. As for the ravens, they already talked about it, and I don't think they'll waste valuable screen time (which is reserved for BOOBS!) to show it. They have done very few flashbacks and dream sequences, even regarding important bits of history so I don't think they'll show some off screen thing that they already skipped over.

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Rild
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Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:38 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:22 pm 
 

HellBlazer wrote:
Under_Starmere wrote:
What in god's name happened to the undead army that steamrolled the Watch force? They just wander into the sea or something? Where the hell were they even going in the first place?


Their objective was to assault the Fist of the First Men, where the Night's Watch was entrenched. And that's what they did, off-screen.

Ascribing tactical thought to a horde of ghouls is contrary to the essence of ghouldom, the point of undead hordes is to wander in the general direction of human civilization not plan their advance like a zombified Patton. Starmere is right, this show has a bad habit of making you think something big is in the works, then letting it peter out into nothing. If thats what the source material is like, the producers should have changed it more.
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nasum
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:39 pm 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
http://www.facebook.com/groups/2204774465/permalink/10151864680759466/

Oh lawd.



Why does this makes me angry??
God damn it, everyone who read the books know GRRM is not having Marry Sues for his characters, if they do something it will have repercussions. OK, we could argue if someone is actually Mary Sue, but in my vision of ASOIAF ending it's very bleak one, it's happy ending but you can't really expect everyone will have their ambitions fulfilled, since even POVs have clashing ambitions.
And then I read that fairy tale ending, I guess she hasn't read the books, I really hope she cries when that happens :finger: .

also, some funny links, don't know if they were posted earlier in thread


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nasum wrote:
that is Rage Against The Machine, not metal.

It's probably his idea of metal. That Black Sabbath and Trouble stuff doesn't have enough gangsta giving the finger.

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Derigin
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:55 pm 
 

Keep in mind that the plots that the show are going with, and focus on, might tell you a lot about the end game of the series. The producers know the end of the series, more or less, and so the drive on some plots tell you a lot about what GRRM considers "important" to the greater plot. I'm fine with the story so far, and what they have chosen.

I just get the feeling too that GRRM's greatest mistake might be that he will leave some plots unresolved. I sure hope not, but he has created many, many story lines.

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in_human_form
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Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:08 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:01 pm 
 

Rild wrote:
Ascribing tactical thought to a horde of ghouls is contrary to the essence of ghouldom, the point of undead hordes is to wander in the general direction of human civilization not plan their advance like a zombified Patton. Starmere is right, this show has a bad habit of making you think something big is in the works, then letting it peter out into nothing. If thats what the source material is like, the producers should have changed it more.


Uh, you know that the wights are under the control of the White Walkers/Others, right? Why do you think one of the wights brought back to Castle Black in one of the earlier seasons specifically tried to assassinate Commander Mormont?

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Messiah_X
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:33 pm 
 

in_human_form wrote:
Uh, you know that the wights are under the control of the White Walkers/Others, right? Why do you think one of the wights brought back to Castle Black in one of the earlier seasons specifically tried to assassinate Commander Mormont?


:nods: Exactly. This is one point that the show has MAJORLY missed the mark on, leading to confusion for a lot of viewers who have not read the books. The white walkers and the undead are two separate entities completely. The white walkers (or "Others" in the book) are fully intelligent beings of ice. I suppose for a comparison you could think of them like the frost giants of Nordic lore, but shorter in stature and with more magical power. The ONLY white walker we really have had a good look at in the show was the one who looked down on Sam in last season's finale. On the other hand we have seen a lot of wights - the reanimated corpses whom the white walkers create and control through some kind of unexplained primeval necromancy. These beings are in fact a mindless horde of zombies, but they CAN be used strategically by the intelligent white walker beings. Hope this helps (more hopefully the show clarifies this one day).

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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:01 pm 
 

Messiah_X wrote:
Grave_Wyrm wrote:

Spoiler: show
Good question, and no kidding. Hopefully we'll get some flashbacks or something about the battle. I want to see three things: the wall breach, the ravens being released, and the wight pulling itself up the spear.

Either Sam will get Mormont's knife, or Ghost (who's lurking outside Craster's) will lead him to the buried stash, a walker will be coming for that baby that was just born and Sam will kill it. Then no one will believe him until Jon gets back. I hope I'm wrong.

[[SPOILER PERIMETER TORCHES]]

Also with so much material missing, [[NERFED]] "the next death" is going to be pathetically supported, I'm sure.


Spoiler: show
Sam presumably already has the dragonglass dagger in his possession since they found the stash at the Fist in season 2 (off-topic, but does anyone remember if they found the horn as well? I don't remember at the moment). I see this going two ways, the first being an attack by the Others at Craster's keep which I really wouldn't like, and Sam saving Gilly and the baby from a single white walker, which I suppose I'd find a bit more acceptable although I'll miss "Sam the Slayer." I guess I wouldn't mind them throwing in a running gag where nobody believes that Sam actually killed a white walker because they weren't there to see it (and call him Sam the Slayer in a more snarky, sarcastic way), but I suppose we'll see what happens. As for the ravens, they already talked about it, and I don't think they'll waste valuable screen time (which is reserved for BOOBS!) to show it. They have done very few flashbacks and dream sequences, even regarding important bits of history so I don't think they'll show some off screen thing that they already skipped over.


Good .. I was wrong. :) That's relieving.
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Under_Starmere
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:02 pm 
 

HellBlazer wrote:
Under_Starmere wrote:
What in god's name happened to the undead army that steamrolled the Watch force? They just wander into the sea or something? Where the hell were they even going in the first place?


Their objective was to assault the Fist of the First Men, where the Night's Watch was entrenched. And that's what they did, off-screen.


Well I'm glad you're here to tell me these things, HB, because the show's doing a pretty bad job of it ;). As a book reader this stuff might seem obvious, but looking at it through show-only eyes, some of what's going on is pretty fucking vague. Did the undead turn back after their assault or did they keep going? Where are they now? What are they doing? You'd think in the span of three episodes we might get at least a tiny bit clued into where an immense roving horde of zombie soldiers toddled away to, but apparently not. They just came out of nowhere, did...something...and then dropped off the map. And that was supposed to be an assassination attempt on Mormont?.... :scratch: ...is that clearer in the book? Because all the show gave us was the impression that a zombie woke up and started doing its zombie thing, e.g. being generally homicidal. Thus far we haven't gotten hardly any insight into what's up with the white walkers/undead at all. I assume some of this will be made clearer later, but for now it's all a bit headscratching.

So there was supposed to be a sizable Watch force "entrenched" at the Fist? Also news to me. The way the show portrayed it, it looked like about thirty of them just happened to be in the general vicinity of the Fist during their indistinct wanderings at the time the undead showed up and then only lost like ten guys.

@Grave_Wyrm I wish it seemed like they were desperately trying to stay ahead of the undead army... that way I might know what was supposed to be happening and there would actually be a modicum of tension involved. As it is now, they seem to be simply tiredly trudging back to the wall, unaware of or oblivious to where the army that just kicked their ass (or so it has been implied) is.
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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:06 pm 
 

Derigin wrote:
I just get the feeling too that GRRM's greatest mistake might be that he will leave some plots unresolved. I sure hope not, but he has created many, many story lines.

He can always kill anyone he doesn't want to write anymore. :( At least that wouldn't be a loose end. More of a stump.
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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:11 pm 
 

Quote:
I wish it seemed like they were desperately trying to stay ahead of the undead army... that way I might know what was supposed to be happening and there would actually be a modicum of tension involved. As it is now, they seem to be simply tiredly trudging back to the wall, unaware of or oblivious to where the army that just kicked their ass (or so it has been implied) is.

Yes, that's a big, big failure of the TV show right now. Their escape from the Fist was desperate and almost hopeless looking. Now they just seem to be calmly walking in the snow, almost unconcerned. Ehhhh.
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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:12 pm 
 

Under_Starmere wrote:
So there was supposed to be a sizable Watch force "entrenched" at the Fist? Also news to me. The way the show portrayed it, it looked like about thirty of them just happened to be in the general vicinity of the Fist during their indistinct wanderings at the time the undead showed up and then only lost like ten guys.

Yeah, what was it .. like 300 men? There's this superior moment when the men at the Fist are waiting for the Halfhand's party to come back and they've no idea what's going on. They hear one blast from the horn "Brothers returning", so they're happy; then a second, "wildlings", and they head for their gear; and then the pants-shitting when the third, "walkers" blast comes and just keeps ringing out. They get completely mauled.
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Under_Starmere
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:39 pm 
 

Dayummz! *insert Juggalo smiley* So how in the seven hells are we supposed to believe that Sam survived? I mean HOW IN THE FUCK. Did he get out alive. Come on now. Dere's some 'splainin da do
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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:38 pm 
 

Well, I'd tell you, but... it's possible they uh, kept that scene for later, and that'd be a big spoiler. :P
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
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HellBlazer
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:53 pm 
 

Under_Starmere wrote:
Dayummz! *insert Juggalo smiley* So how in the seven hells are we supposed to believe that Sam survived? I mean HOW IN THE FUCK. Did he get out alive. Come on now. Dere's some 'splainin da do


Well, yes. Exactly. At the end of last season, I was like "uh OK, how are they going to have Sam survive being surrounded but a horde of wights when one of the Others is looking straight at him?" ('Cause in the book he's at the Fist with the other Night's Watch men... and he does send the damn ravens!). Turns out, easy enough! Just uh... skip to where he's gotten away! Wow. :boo:

There's the bit that Morri mentions, but that comes after the escape from the Fist anyway.


In short, you should read the books.

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Under_Starmere
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:58 pm 
 

Dammit! ...But books are for nerds... :( I demand that the show itself make sense...
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Aurone
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:15 pm 
 

This show may have had slow start, but it's picked it up to full speed, tonight's episode was even better then last weeks.

Spoiler: show
Jaimie having his hand wrapped around his neck was just insult to injury. Honesly, seeing him realize his world is forever changed is being handled very well.

I had forgoten how interesting the unique character (I can never remember his name) is, and holy shit did it get dark with him having the man who castrated him trapped in a crate.

Seeing Cersei getting owned by Tywin was just awesome, seeing her get tongue lashed nearly as bad as Tyrion almost had me liking him again.

I kind of saw the swerve with Theon coming, I'll say this, for a character we once despised, I'm really feeling sorry for what he's going to go through.

Seeing the Night's Watch disentigrate was also shocking, we're only 4 episodes in and we have another major character die.

I saw the twist coming where Daenary's turning on the slavers, but I didn't see her knowing every word he said. Also, it was prett damn epic the way she got them serve her of their own free will.


It took a few episodes, but this show is finally back to it's reputation again.

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Messiah_X
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:42 am 
 

It's time for Messiah X's weekly devoted book reader/show apologist review! I liked this week's episode. Overall it was quite good, but it wasn't without its flaws. I suppose I should discuss those first.

Bran's scenes have been generally bland and tonight was no exception. The lack the air of mysticism that the book presented, in favor of pseudo-surreal dream sequences which don't make much sense. Oh well, that wasn't my biggest issue tonight. The sorceror in the box... why? Just... Why? I liked the Varys backstory bit and would have been satisfied with just that, so why toss in something that will become an obvious plothole? There is only two ways it could go, a meandering pointless subplot designed for the show and with no real bearing on anything, or an excuse for everyone to scream "PLOTHOLE!!" Also, Varys's scene with Ros, while I wouldn't call it filler... WHY OH WHY OH WHY do we need to drag out the Podrick sexploitation from last week? That said, I absolutely loved the Varys/Olenna scene and all the political background story (Only hinted at in the book) that went with it.

The rest was good. I'm loving Theon's scenes, although I think they're moving too fast. Would be nice to take a break from Theon for a week or two before moving forward with his story. Jaime and Brienne's scenes were good, I liked witnessing Jaime's newfound humility on screen, and for the first time I've felt some semblance of sympathy for show Jaime. His chemistry with Brienne is nice on screen as well, and I thought it was all pulled off quite well. Margaery playing Joffrey (and Sansa) was good, Tywin ripping Cersei a new one was good, the Brotherhood scene was good. No real complaints from me here.

The highlights of the episode for me were the Night's Watch mutiny and of course Dany's scene. I thought they depicted the Night's Watch scene perfectly. Now, book readers may say that this scene lacked the impact it had in the book, and I would agree to an extent, but NOT because this was a poor scene. If the show failed this in any way it was in the buildup. They didn't really develop Lord Commander Mormont all that well, and they didn't do much to show us the Watch's growing dissent and disparity. The scene itself was very well executed and had a real air of tension, suddenly broken before all hell broke loose. Dany's scene at the end was perfect, as good as the book if not better. I loved Kraznyz's face when he learned Dany spoke his language, I loved the way they depicted the Unsulled's emotionless obedience, and of course the "Dracarys." They couldn't have pulled that scene off better. ONWARD TO YUNKAI!!

So while it had some of the usual flaws, I can honestly say this was another great episode. Next week may slow down I suspect, but I suppose we'll see. Overall this season is developing much better than last despite the changes, and I look forward to where they take it from here.

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shouvince
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:35 am 
 

Ah, Messiah covered it better than I could've possibly done. So I'm going to keep this really short. The episode started off mildly and there were more filler scenes. Is there really more to that Podrick story? Anyway, least bothered about that. I quite enjoyed the Jaime/Brienne scenes again. It brings a different angle to Jaime's character as it did in the previous episode. But truly, the ending of the episode with Dany was quite climactic. I think I blew a load when she shouted out 'Unsullied!' and started speaking Valyrian. I loved the symbology of the whip and how it was thrown down on to the ground with the Unsullied marching over it. That entire sequence was so goddamn epic.

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nasum
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:42 pm
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Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:11 am 
 

This was best episode so far. It started bit sloppy with that annoying Ros character, who I can't predict what's gonna be her role though I think she's gonna fill Dontos role, book readers know what I'm talking about, and pointless Bran scene, they could've cut it freely.
And we got to see who is Varys, though does this mean that sorcerer will have some role in next few episodes, or Varys is just gonna torture him to death? And that 'voice from fire' what is that? I hope this isn't book spoiler, it's probably just adding some mysticism to ASOIAF world, not important for future action.

Spoiler: show
Do you guys maybe think this sorcerer is a Red Priest maybe?


This episode was simply getting better and better, ending with climactic Dany being badass, damn, I was waiting for this 4 episodes, was already getting started to worry they'll put it into next episode.

I'll only complain about scene where she burns Kraznys, would be more epic if they did it like in the books - he asks Dany why Drogon isn't listening him, and she tells him 'dragons are no slaves' and she whips him with a whip across his face and shouts 'Drogon! Dracarys!' and then Unsullied blow everything systematically up.

EDIT: I was wrong, she says dragon is no slave. I mixed it up :durr:
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heavymetalbackwards wrote:
nasum wrote:
that is Rage Against The Machine, not metal.

It's probably his idea of metal. That Black Sabbath and Trouble stuff doesn't have enough gangsta giving the finger.

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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:13 am 
 

I liked this episode for many of the reasons already stated: the incident at Craster's and the sack of Astapor were awesome. I also continue to love their portrayal of Olenna Tyrell. They captured her perfectly. The line about "the non-existent bumping against the decrepit" made me laugh.
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Aurone
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:14 pm 
 

Tonight's episode was little of a step down, but still pretty damn good.

Spoiler: show
The bath scene with Jamie and Brienne was done really well, with us getting a better understanding of Jamie and his betrayel of the King.

The sword fight witht he Hound was also damn good and has opened up more questions about how the guy healed.

Seeing Stannis' wife and daughter was....interesting. His wife having her miscarigousin jars and their daughter malformed was just...yeah.

So Jon Snow and Ygritte finally fucked. Honestly, I wasn't feeling it, I think it needed a few more episodes of development. If it was heat of the moment, fine, but they played the love angle and it wasn't working.

They reminded us again of why Littlefinger is such a weasly little fuck.

Robb dealing with a traitor lord and realizing his war isn't working was good and him having to go the man he broke a deal with will be interesting to see.

The ending was abrupt and out of no where, but ended on a damn powerfull scene. Cersei being treated as much of a discgrace as Tyrion makes me think a possible alliance might finally be forged between them.

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Messiah_X
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:21 am 
 

Tonight's episode actually exceeded my expectations. What I expected was a transition episode (or as many people like to think - filler). I knew a few major scenes were coming, but after the bombshell endings the past two weeks I knew they were going to take a step back and focus on the individual characters more than on major events. I was surprised how much they packed in, and only let down by the ending (but only because I had a different expectation for the ending, more on that later!)

The good: Jaime's bath scene. Damn fine acting. I really, really like the acting chemistry between Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and Gwendoline Christie, and they absolutely nailed Jaime's explanation of why he killed King Aerys. I also thought Roose was sufficiently creepy, I liked his dialogue. At first I wasn't liking the Beric/Sandor fight, but in the end it worked for me. From a film perspective, it was probably the best fight scene we've seen so far. To elaborate, what I didn't like at first was the short 2 second shot of Thoros reviving Beric after he lost the fight. As I remember it in the book, this wasn't explained at all until later, and Beric rising after the Hound's triumph came as more of a surprise. To be fair though, this may have been a case of me knowing exactly what was coming. I liked Shireen, although I'm sure every non-reader was wondering what was wrong with her. I'll take this opportunity to explain right now: Shireen suffers from a disease called greyscale, which is kind of like a mix between slow petrification and leprosy. She survived the disease, but it has left her scarred and disfigured. Anyway, I liked her portrayal. Littlefinger was wonderfully devious as always, and I liked Grey Worm as well, although not exactly what I expected, I'm looking forward to him becoming a more major character. Finally, the Karstark incident played out nicely on screen, and I actually kind of like the idea of Robb seeking Walder Frey's help as opposed to essentially being summoned to him and being forced to work with him as in the book.

The Bad: Jon and Ygritte. I knew this was coming, but it was so rushed in the show. With 3 minute Jon scenes in nearly every episode and not much time to develop Jon and Ygritte's budding feelings for each other, this scene just came across as "hey boi, lets go into this cave and fuck lololol." It was awkward and felt forced. Sure, they've made it a point to remind us that Ygritte likes Jon, but they missed the part where Jon was more or less falling for Ygritte, and was subsequently conflicted between love and duty. Instead, they gave us Ygritte seducing a total prude. Jon and Tormund had better chemistry (although even THEIR chemistry was better in the book). Stannis and Selyse... not sure what to say here. I liked their dialogue and I think the actor who played Selyse played the hopeless fanatic well enough, but what the fuck was up with the fetus jars? Really? Fetuses preserved in jars in the fucking dark ages? I get what they were trying to portray here, I just thought it was one of the worst ideas the show thus far, not even including book to screen changes. This just doesn't make sense. The Olenna/Tyrion scene was a bit of a step back from both characters' brilliance in other scenes. I also didn't really care for the ending. Not the ending SCENE mind you, but more the scene they chose to BE the ending. I liked that scene in and of itself, but at this point in the season I was expecting something else. If you haven't read the books don't read this but:
Spoiler: show
I was really expecting them to end this episode with Stannis's and Melisandre's ritual spell to kill the other kings. I feel like this scene would have fit perfectly at this point, and they better get to it soon before it gets too late, as in next episode or two.

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HellBlazer
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:34 am 
 

Well that was a complete travesty... Selyse didn't have a mustache! :fuck:

:D

Joking aside, another very good episode this week. That's three episodes in a row where there is very little to dislike; they're on a roll. The Queen of Thorns continues to be brilliant and steal every scene she's in. Pretty cool duel with Beric and the Hound (though no budget for resurrection special effects I guess?), and great scenes between Jaime and Brienne, and at the end with Tywin, Tyrion and Cersei. I'm liking Shireen's introduction too. I kinda agree with Aurone about the Jon / Ygritte bit (though hey, finally canon sex ;)), but it's not so much that they needed more episodes to develop, but that their relationship should have been better set up in previous episodes already. Also, the bit with the foetuses in jars was weird... but that's just a detail.

@Aurone, by the way, no need to spoiler tag discussion of the latest episode, dude. People reading this thread are supposed to be up-to-date. Only future events should be tagged as spoiler.

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Messiah_X
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:38 am
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:43 am 
 

HellBlazer wrote:
Pretty cool duel with Beric and the Hound (though no budget for resurrection special effects I guess?)


I thought the duel itself was better than most of the fight scenes they've done so far on the show. As for special effects, correct me if I'm wrong (as it's been at least 2 years since my last re-read of ASOS) but didn't Beric simply stand back up in the background after Sandor was gloating over his victory? My main problem with his resurrection was the fact that they showed Thoros reviving him, which kind of subtly explained his resurrection even before it happened, thereby removing any mystery behind it (at least for me as a reader/viewer)

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HellBlazer
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:03 am 
 

Messiah_X wrote:
Spoiler: show
I was really expecting them to end this episode with Stannis's and Melisandre's ritual spell to kill the other kings. I feel like this scene would have fit perfectly at this point, and they better get to it soon before it gets too late, as in next episode or two.


Spoiler: show
Well, they need king's blood for that, and there's no Edrick Storm. The general prediction is that they'll probably use Gendry as a replacement for Edrick. There was this puzzling scene in one of the trailers that featured both Melisandre and Thoros, so that would seem to set this up (and that would be where Mel was going last week). We'll see.

Then again, I'm not sure why they couldn't just use Shireen's blood, even in the books (if this is mentioned, I don't remember). Obviously Stannis wouldn't want to sacrifice his own daughter, but for a dude already willing to use creepy blood magic, I suppose getting a bit of blood with leeches wouldn't be that big a deal.


Messiah_X wrote:
As for special effects, correct me if I'm wrong (as it's been at least 2 years since my last re-read of ASOS) but didn't Beric simply stand back up in the background after Sandor was gloating over his victory? My main problem with his resurrection was the fact that they showed Thoros reviving him, which kind of subtly explained his resurrection even before it happened, thereby removing any mystery behind it (at least for me as a reader/viewer)


Well yeah, it's not really "shown" in that exact scene in the book, but Thoros explains the "kiss of life" thing in the next Arya chapter after that.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9713
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:09 am 
 

From another forum:

Quote:
I've been hoping Rob would lay siege to Casterly Rock since the end of last season. Glad he's finally taking the logical course.


[A Storm of Swords massive spoilers]
Spoiler: show
Oh man, this guy's tears will be delicious.



I liked everything about the episode except the fetuses in the jar, that was just stupid. Oh and TV-Stannis kind of sucks. The rest was great though. Jaime in the bath, fuck yeah. :love:
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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Adriankat
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:36 am 
 

I hate how Shireen has blonde hair. It ruins Ned and Jon Arryn's reasoning/discovery about the Baratheon's black hair. Shireen's scenes were adorable though, especially the Davos+Shireen interactions. D'awww.

The Blackfish punching Lord Karstark in the face was awesome. Fuck yeah!
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Messiah_X
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:38 am
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:42 am 
 

Morrigan wrote:
From another forum:

Quote:
I've been hoping Rob would lay siege to Casterly Rock since the end of last season. Glad he's finally taking the logical course.


[A Storm of Swords massive spoilers]
Spoiler: show
Oh man, this guy's tears will be delicious.


:lol:

Spoiler: show
As Ramsay says in the preview for next week: "If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention"

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9713
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:45 am 
 

LOL, I haven't seen the preview, but that's a great line. Ouch.
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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shouvince
Veteran

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:11 am
Posts: 2787
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:27 am 
 

Messiah_X wrote:
What I expected was a transition episode (or as many people like to think - filler).


Yeah I feared the same. Luckily it wasn't a drab, a bit slow but still interesting. Apart from the major scenes already mentioned, I liked the bit where we are introduced to Grey Worm. If he is to be one of Dany's advisor/commanders, he looks a tad young, no? But nevertheless, his speech about sticking to his name was quite nice. Short, succinct and nailing down what kind of a strong character he is (and intends to be).

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nasum
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:42 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:28 am 
 

I don't know what to say what already hasn't been pointed out, this was quite good episode but last one was best of this season. I'm just gonna complain girls had it better this episode, where are my naked women? Most of naked people in this episode were guys :(

Also book question for readers

Spoiler: show
Cersei will stop Loras marrying her by making Joffrey appointing Loras as a Kingsguard, right? But since Tywin said Loras is an heir to the Reach, that would mean in show he's an heir and if she does that she leaves Reach without an heir, which would be like stabbing yourself in the eye politically? How do you think this will sort out? In books Loras is 3rd child and not close to inheritance, just a reminder.

And do you think next episode will be about Ramsay and Roose? And we might actually see Ironborn for the first time this season, since Mel's fire spell is incoming. I'd hate if they'd cut it out from the show.
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heavymetalbackwards wrote:
nasum wrote:
that is Rage Against The Machine, not metal.

It's probably his idea of metal. That Black Sabbath and Trouble stuff doesn't have enough gangsta giving the finger.

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