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Yuriihate
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:24 am
Posts: 22
Location: Qatar
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:46 am 
 

I intended to call this thread "Metal and religion" but I'm sure the title isn't to ambiguous and fits a wider group of people no matter what your experience.

Has music (or metal for that matter) made you reevaluate your beliefs or question your religion?
It has been the case with me in my middle to late teens, mainly from the lyrics which I went to great lengths to dissect and assimilate, which resulted in me looking up topics I hadn't heard of before.
I'll just mention that I was "brought up" a Muslim but I do not follow or believe in the faith.

Anyone find themselves in a similar situation? This is not meant to degrade anyone or disrespect but I personally feel more liberated as a person, no matter how cliche or cheesy that sounds.

Sorry if a topic such as this has been done before.

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breeze kneeze
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:13 pm
Posts: 79
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:00 am 
 

Answer to "has music made you reevaluate your beliefs?" As a person with no beliefs I don't believe it has.

What topics has metal made you look up?

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Yuriihate
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:24 am
Posts: 22
Location: Qatar
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:00 am 
 

Human evolution and meta-physics to name two. I don't mean to say that metal has specifically tackled these topics head on (I'm sure some have) but most of the anti-religious sentiments expressed in a lot of lyrics led me down that path and I owe a lot to this music for that reason.

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iAm
Wastelander

Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:18 am
Posts: 5630
Location: West of the Duwamish due South of the Sound
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:05 am 
 

Heavy Metal convinced me to sell my soul to the Devil and to shoot up heroin. Thanks to bands like Cannibal Corpse I have a gore fetish now too.
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PhilosophicalFrog
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 7:08 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:26 am 
 

I'm a religious guy (the worst type am I right, ladies?!?) and I've been listening to metal since I was about twelve, and the harsher stuff (black metal, mainly) since I was fifteen. It really did help me explore tons of ideas I would have never been exposed to otherwise, and not just because the lyrics were filled with philosophy, but also because of the rebellious nature of the music. I wanted to rebel (as I did and stopped believing for a good while) and started reading Nietzsche and Sartre and metaphysics. Some bands influenced my thoughts, like Deathspell Omega or Funeral Mist, but for the most part, it was because of the nature of the music, that I took things very seriously since I was a teen.
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henkkjelle
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Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
Posts: 3121
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:28 am 
 

Eh, not much actually. I already was a atheist before I started to listen to metal, and the rest of my worldviews (always a work in progress, mind you) formed independently from my musical taste.
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oogboog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:09 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:59 am 
 

I've been a cynic for a while. Selfish and stupid people roam this world, which pisses me off. That's mostly why I listen to the misanthropic/nihilistic/hateful bands out there, which I guess is progressing my beliefs.
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henkkjelle
Veteran

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
Posts: 3121
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:07 am 
 

oogboog wrote:
I've been a cynic for a while. Selfish and stupid people roam this world, which pisses me off. That's mostly why I listen to the misanthropic/nihilistic/hateful bands out there, which I guess is progressing my beliefs.


That's pretty sad actually.

You should listen to Devin Townsend. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvmIByrcwAQ Because we a pretty lucky to be here.

EDIT And yes, I agree. The world is filled with a lot of stupid people, but there's no need to get seriously cynical about it, you're only bringing yourself down.
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Marag
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: down there where chaos prevails
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:32 am 
 

Thanks to metal, I found enlightenment through cutting my flesh and worshiping satan

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GuitarGuyNack
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:14 pm
Posts: 55
Location: BC, Canada
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:10 pm 
 

I was raised as a christian and i also listened to DM while still practicing the religion.As of late though, i've been having a harder and harder time beliving what christianity teaches but i do not think that metal has influanced that.
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The Orange Man
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:54 pm
Posts: 109
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:23 pm 
 

I was born and raised a Roman Catholic, but for obvious reasons which I'm sure many on these forums can relate to, I can't bring myself to live with that mentality. But I am a liberal Christian and have been for a long time now. Should something come along to change my beliefs, it sure as fuck wouldn't be the lyrics to some heavy metal albums.

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IX Leviathan
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:09 pm
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Location: Trailer Park Land
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:55 pm 
 

I wasn't brought up on any religious beliefs and through the years I can't say that I've developed any listening to metal, or at all for that matter (I'm an apatheist). Same can be said about my views of the world, politics, etc. My set of beliefs and what I listen to are entirely separate from one another.
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megalowho
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:33 am
Posts: 479
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:25 pm 
 

I remember having a Slayer song ("Temptation") stuck in my head when I was confirmed Catholic. :)

That was as a sophomore in high school, when I was first getting into extreme metal. The music didn't affect my religious beliefs, but it did perhaps cause me to take them less seriously. I enjoyed the music, and accepted Christianity, in a kind of "ironic" spirit, I guess.

A couple things eventually (some four years later) influenced me to reject theism: It was unpopular in the (online) community of listeners I observed and interacted with. When I occasionally spoke in defense of my Christianity, their reactions ranged from "This is so pitiful and naive that I can't even bring myself to comment" to "You are a ridiculous fucking retard, and I'm going to let you know it." And once in a while I'd witness a more substantial debate, so gradually I discovered where my sympathies lay and was given the incentive to do some independent research, which supported my disbelief.

Something similar happened with my politics, in the transition from conservatism to liberalism, though I'm still in the process of seeing my philosophy crystallize through independent research. This didn't have as much to do with metal, however, which (in my experience, anyway) doesn't seem as overtly political as it is antireligious, and whose listeners represent more of a variety in terms of politics than religion. (And I had a lot of liberal friends outside the metal community.)

So, metal helped expose me to the right people, though metal itself wasn't the decisive factor.

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Violent_Possessor
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:53 pm
Posts: 238
Location: New York
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:32 pm 
 

iAm wrote:
Heavy Metal convinced me to sell my soul to the Devil and to shoot up heroin. Thanks to bands like Cannibal Corpse I have a gore fetish now too.


Soooooo edgy.

It hasn't really affected me in any real way. In a way I rejected Christianity because of metal but that was also a very natural progression as I grew up as it is with a large amount of people I feel. In the end metal just made me happy cause it was something I really enjoyed and got really heavily into and I still am.
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Marag
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:38 pm 
 

megalowho wrote:
A couple things eventually (some four years later) influenced me to reject theism: It was unpopular in the (online) community of listeners I observed and interacted with. When I occasionally spoke in defense of my Christianity, their reactions ranged from "This is so pitiful and naive that I can't even bring myself to comment" to "You are a ridiculous fucking retard, and I'm going to let you know it." And once in a while I'd witness a more substantial debate, so gradually I discovered where my sympathies lay and was given the incentive to do some independent research, which supported my disbelief.

So are you telling that you changed your believes because it was unpopular with some dudes online? That's fucking pathetic.

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megalowho
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:33 am
Posts: 479
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:52 pm 
 

You should read the quoted portion again.

edit: I'll explain.

I didn't say social influence was the only, or even the most significant, factor in my change of beliefs. I also referred explicitly to self-education. Your post suggests you overlooked this, perhaps deliberately in order to score a cheap insult. I don't understand why you felt the need to do that. But in any case, I admit - and I see nothing pathetic about it, for it's simply human - that I'm sufficiently self-aware to realize that social influence plays a significant role in the way I think, and in the way that every person thinks.

When you're becoming educated, you very often intellectually defer to those who not only do possess an advanced understanding of the relevant subject, but also convey by superficial means, deliberately or otherwise, that they possess an advanced understanding. It's a psychological truism: How people "carry themselves" affects their perceived credibility. (Though I shouldn't say it's necessarily the most important thing.)

Also relevant is the fact that it's unpleasant to have your cherished opinions violently contradicted by credible people, particularly when others are there to witness it. It provides motivation - not to say it's always non-negligible, let alone irresistible - to change your opinions. Another truism: We often seek to eliminate the sources of unpleasantness in our lives.

Even when you are highly educated, it remains clear (and even gains clarity) that you are in a poor position to answer difficult questions outside your area of expertise. Thus you continue to defer to those you perceive as credible.

One thing I'll admit I didn't stress sufficiently: The people who influenced me in this online community were mostly well-educated - whether because they had advanced degrees, or simply because they had done a lot of reading - and at the time, I wasn't.


Last edited by megalowho on Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Big_Grand
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:59 pm
Posts: 432
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:00 pm 
 

as far as metal goes, the satanism in black metal has taught me alot about individuality and choosing my own path. I came in christian, but I realized I didnt know very much about Christianity before I came in, and I realized I didnt really believe in any of it. Music in general, as iv ended up branching out alot, has shown me any thing can be music as long as it sounds good to someone, which in life has shown me that there is never a right or wrong answer, a correct and lesser life style, or anything better than something else. In other words, music has taught me tolerance, and just to enjoy what I enjoy. I dont take pride in anything, nor do I take offense to anything opposite of what I enjoy. I have converted to atheist, though my belief's based on a deep religion quiz I took a while ago, include many satanic and hindu values. Iv chosen not to confine myself to either or anything else, but I just simply believe in nature, myself, existence, and science. Im confident I can chose for myself what is right and wrong.

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Marag
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: down there where chaos prevails
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:28 pm 
 

megalowho wrote:
I didn't say social influence was the only, or even the most significant, factor in my change of beliefs. I also referred explicitly to self-education. Your post suggests you overlooked this, perhaps deliberately in order to score a cheap insult. I don't understand why you felt the need to do that. But in any case, I admit - and I see nothing pathetic about it, for it's simply human - that I'm sufficiently self-aware to realize that social influence plays a significant role in the way I think, and in the way that every person thinks.

Not really. The way I read your post, seemed like yout self-education was lead by peer pressure. It might be only human, but it doesn't make it less pathetic, as it shows weakness of character, at least for me.

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HouseSpiders
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:05 am
Posts: 392
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:38 pm 
 

Yuriihate wrote:
Has music (or metal for that matter) made you reevaluate your beliefs or question your religion?

No, not for me, my (dis)beliefs are the same as before I was into metal. However I would like to point out, that there is a chance things have gone the other way round for many people, as well as metal changing religious views, religious views can change music taste.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 18927
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:01 pm 
 

Some metal has good, thought provoking lyrics about religion, but I wouldn't ever form a serious philosophical stance on it by reading metal lyrics. Too one sided and a lot of it, especially the really popular shit, doesn't explore nearly enough of the intricacies and thought processes that go into forming one's beliefs. Regardless I never listened to music much growing up and I formed my own beliefs through that.
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PhantomGreen
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 7:27 pm
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Location: Imprisoned in Flesh
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:02 pm 
 

The Orange Man wrote:
Should something come along to change my beliefs, it sure as fuck wouldn't be the lyrics to some heavy metal albums.


Well. This.

I really don't know how to say this in a nice way, but, asinine question. are you (or anyone) so wavering in your ideals and beliefs (or lack thereof) that music could actually change them? Goddamm lemmings. You would however make the perfect citizen under communist rule.
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megalowho
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:33 am
Posts: 479
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:18 pm 
 

Marag wrote:
The way I read your post, seemed like yout self-education was lead by peer pressure. It might be only human, but it doesn't make it less pathetic, as it shows weakness of character, at least for me.


I'd say "preceded" is closer to it than "led." With politics and religion, a lot is at stake socially, so sure, I'll admit that I don't study them completely dispassionately, and I gravitate somewhat toward arguments whose outcomes I know in advance and favor partly for non-cognitive reasons. I don't think this is at all unusual. But as a result of my continuing education, I'm increasingly able to evaluate certain arguments according to their own merits (and I'm a lot less inclined to agree with something automatically simply because a liberal atheist says it). You don't have all the tools initially, so you often rely on judgment calls - and something that factors into that is your sense of the "intellectual climate." I'd recommend reflecting on relevant examples from your own experience before deciding whether "weak" and "pathetic" are apt descriptors of this: Have you ever firmly held an opinion, only later to realize that most of the people you intellectually respect see it as grotesquely, demonstrably false? And can you honestly claim that that played no role in influencing you at least to reconsider your opinion?

I actually think a more plausible criticism could be made against someone who persists through adulthood without some concern for what better-educated people think; that person exemplifies the arrogance and self-obliviousness you see in climate change deniers, for instance, or anyone who levels the vacuous charge of "elitism" against professional scientists and academics.

Now to say something more pertinent to the OP, and to clarify my position a bit...

My attraction to metal naturally led me to become curious about the metal community, and there I found a lot of individuals who valued originality of thought and authenticity of expression and were critical or at least suspicious of the conventions of mainstream society. The fact that many of them tended to be repulsed by religion and/or conservatism did not make them as thoughtlessly fashion-driven as most people in the mainsteam; part of what happens is that people of this sort simply tend to reach similar conclusions on certain things, simply because those conclusions have more merit. I was, as I've admitted, influenced by these people not only in regard to the question of what to think, but I've also been encouraged to learn how to think. (I think I'm plagiarizing some popular scientist on the "what-how" distinction.)

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Mr_Belvedere
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:42 pm
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Location: Austria
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:34 pm 
 

I believe that the cunt is the most powerful thing on earth.
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PhilosophicalFrog
The Hypercube

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 7:08 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm 
 

PhantomGreen wrote:
The Orange Man wrote:
Should something come along to change my beliefs, it sure as fuck wouldn't be the lyrics to some heavy metal albums.


Well. This.

I really don't know how to say this in a nice way, but, asinine question. are you (or anyone) so wavering in your ideals and beliefs (or lack thereof) that music could actually change them? Goddamm lemmings. You would however make the perfect citizen under communist rule.


You both missed the point of his thread. Of course he's not talking about like an overnight fucking shift in thought, but how metal (which can be substituted for the word "culture") has gradually altered one's worldview. The things we surround ourselves with are fundamentally important, and like it or not, it says something about you philosophically, as you are inclined to find enjoyment in a particular thing (in this case, the aspects of metal). Think about how dumb you two are if you replaced metal with literally anything else (books, movies, philosophers, political websites, any other type of music, food choices, education). So, before you two immediately disown this topic, actually think about what you said, because it actually comes off as something more like this:

"OH MY GOD, YOU'RE WORLDVIEW IS INFLUENCED BY THE CULTURAL ETHOS WITH WHICH YOU SURROUND YOURSELF?!?! LEMMINGS!"

Which is, of course, a ridiculous and incredulous phrase that wouldn't be taken seriously by anyone ever.
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AtmaSoul
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:14 am
Posts: 10
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:51 pm 
 

Tool(not metal) exemplifies a lot of my beliefs in their music. The evolution of man, and the expanding of consciousness.

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TheEvilSocky
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:34 pm
Posts: 590
Location: In your basement
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:41 pm 
 

Mr_Belvedere wrote:
I believe that the cunt is the most powerful thing on earth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j7zlZmrMi4
:-D
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circleofdestruction
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:15 am
Posts: 805
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:50 pm 
 

Metal has made me want to smoke crack and worship Satan.

breeze kneeze wrote:
Answer to "has music made you reevaluate your beliefs?" As a person with no beliefs I don't believe it has.

What topics has metal made you look up?

This, pretty much. I'm pretty sure I was born an atheist and a skeptic. This has made it relatively easier for me to gravitate towards bands which aren't very fond of religion, probably, but hasn't actually made me question or change anything. It's probably the other way around for me: since I am not religious, I might pass by stuff that is more religious/supernatural-oriented unless I really like the music. (I probably don't actively hate on "spiritual" or religious stuff, but if there are two bands of equal musical quality and I think one has really stupid and silly subject matter, I might just gravitate toward the other.)

It's possibly influenced me to learn more about Norse mythology, though. I always liked reading about mythologies of various cultures. My dog is named Odin.
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PhantomGreen
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:10 pm 
 

PhilosophicalFrog wrote:
You both missed the point of his thread. Of course he's not talking about like an overnight fucking shift in thought, but how metal (which can be substituted for the word "culture") has gradually altered one's worldview. The things we surround ourselves with are fundamentally important, and like it or not, it says something about you philosophically, as you are inclined to find enjoyment in a particular thing (in this case, the aspects of metal). Think about how dumb you two are if you replaced metal with literally anything else (books, movies, philosophers, political websites, any other type of music, food choices, education). So, before you two immediately disown this topic, actually think about what you said, because it actually comes off as something more like this:

"OH MY GOD, YOU'RE WORLDVIEW IS INFLUENCED BY THE CULTURAL ETHOS WITH WHICH YOU SURROUND YOURSELF?!?! LEMMINGS!"

Which is, of course, a ridiculous and incredulous phrase that wouldn't be taken seriously by anyone ever.

There is definitley a more diplomatic approach to saying I think the question posed is moronic. I will say that. but this statement: Has music (or metal for that matter) made you reevaluate your beliefs or question your religion? is what I was reacting to. Potato Pototo.
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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:27 pm 
 

Musical lyrics have no correlation to what I believe; rather, it's the choice of music that is more indicative of my beliefs. Whatever it is I'm listening to, it has to either be bombastic/grand/intense or melodic/catchy/beautiful. Or both. I guess I would've been right at home during the Romanticist movement, both in terms of literature and music.
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The Orange Man
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:54 pm
Posts: 109
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:50 am 
 

Quote:
You both missed the point of his thread.

No. No I did not.

Quote:
Of course he's not talking about like an overnight fucking shift in thought,

Nor did I assume it to be.

Quote:
but how metal (which can be substituted for the word "culture") has gradually altered one's worldview. The things we surround ourselves with are fundamentally important, and like it or not, it says something about you philosophically, as you are inclined to find enjoyment in a particular thing (in this case, the aspects of metal).

And my answer is still, "It has not and it will never". I'm very sorry if you do not like my answer.

Quote:
Think about how dumb you two are if you replaced metal with literally anything else (books, movies, philosophers, political websites, any other type of music, food choices, education).

Q: Has 'metal' changed my beliefs?
A: No.
Q: Have 'books' changed my beliefs?
A: Yes.
Q: Have 'philosophers' changed my beliefs?
A: Yes.
Q: Has 'education' changed my beliefs?
A: Yes.

I'm not sure what your point is with the whole 'replacing metal with' thing, but that's pretty cut and dry to me.

Quote:
So, before you two immediately disown this topic,

I haven't. And I wouldn't have posted anything if I did.

Quote:
actually think about what you said, because it actually comes off as something more like this:
"OH MY GOD, YOU'RE WORLDVIEW IS INFLUENCED BY THE CULTURAL ETHOS WITH WHICH YOU SURROUND YOURSELF?!?! LEMMINGS!"

I have said nothing like this. And I'm not exactly sure why you think that I believe this. Is it because somebody quoted my post and then lumped some people together as being unable to think for themselves? Now I suddenly share the beliefs of everybody that quotes my posts? That's just fucking absurd.

Look, I'm open to discussion if you feel I should be influenced spiritually by the music I listen to, or if you think I have somehow slighted metalheads across the globe by not being influenced by it, but right now I don't think we're on the same page. If you listen to metal and get enough out of it where it can change your religious beliefs, then so be it. You have your own path to follow. And I have mine.

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deevil
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:47 am
Posts: 2
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:59 am 
 

Religions to me are just blatant mind control...most of them anyways and are based on a group of peoples behavior...If we are all created equal then why doesnt everyone have access to the same knowlege...People in the Amazons beleifs should be as worthy as anybodys....Sad when u hear about women being stoned to death for adultry in the Islam world,punishing a so called crime with an even bigger crime..the ultimate crime...all these fanatics are wackos...no bueno...

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The_Erlking
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:56 am
Posts: 1403
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:40 am 
 

I don't think one should look for ideological answers in the music and least in the heavy metal. Arts are not the means to convince anyone but to express something - often something universally human (or inhuman). Sure even some religious and philosophic ideas but I think the real power of music is in it's power of expression that inspires hope, thought, dreams and large scale of emotions - in other words it connects you with the raw data of the "self" allowing you to gain conscious or subconscious knowledge of yourself and of humanity. So yeah music has influenced my "beliefs" to a degree but it certainly isn't the first or the last place I check with the questions of morality etc.
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Thiestru
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:12 am 
 

Since I've been listening to metal for so long, it's hard to tell whether it played a part in my changing beliefs (and lack thereof), or if that was just a natural part of getting older. I'd attribute it more to the latter, because what does it really mean to say 'metal played a part in changing my beliefs'? Metal is not a philosophy. There are many different ideas expressed by it, and they often conflict. I think it's more accurate to say that I was drawn to certain bands because they reflect aspects of my personality, emotionally and ideologically. As I develop as a person, my tastes in music mutate to reflect that. I can recall times when certain music has struck me as powerful because of the eloquence/beauty/force with which it expressed feelings or thoughts that I share, but never a time when it 'converted' me to anything.

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Against Such Things
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 8:16 pm
Posts: 450
Location: Southern Maryland
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:30 pm 
 

Well, I've been listening to metal in one form or another since I was about 13. I'd been raised in the church all my life, but was, depending on how things were going, generally apathetic or angry with God. I think some of the christian metal bands I listened to a lot were probably the only thing that kept me from completley renouncing faith in any form. I became a Christian at 15, but around that point, I became much less concerned with the nature of lyrical content. Some of the music I have encountered since this time has been thought-provoking, and while I haven't rejected *my* faith, I am generaly skeptical to organized religion as a whole, and definitely have rather... unorthodox views compared to what seems to be mainstream Christianity.

And for what it's worth, some of the Scandanavian metal bands sparked my interest in Norse/Finnish mythology/religion.
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Of_This_Night36
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Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:16 pm
Posts: 79
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:11 pm 
 

megalowho wrote:
unpopular in the (online) community of listeners I observed and interacted with. When I occasionally spoke in defense of my Christianity, their reactions ranged from "This is so pitiful and naive that I can't even bring myself to comment" to "You are a ridiculous fucking retard, and I'm going to let you know it." . . . So, metal helped expose me to the right people, though metal itself wasn't the decisive factor.


You spoke in defense of your personal beliefs, they called you pitiful, naive, and a ridiculous fucking retard when they have no proof that you're wrong, and you sympathized with them and called them "the right people".

I can't describe how much this annoys me. Independent research, okay, but this whole thing just sounds like the worst case of "blind leading the blind" I've ever seen and sounds a lot more "ridiculously fucking retarded" than thinking differently than other people, regardless of credibility.

Anyway, metal hasn't directly influenced any of my beliefs, but it helped on my journey through them. Many of my philosophies and joys are focused in nature and spiritual journeys (which makes Christmas shopping difficult, by the way), and such topics are covered surprisingly often if you look for the right bands. On a lesser note, Neptunian Horizon's lyrics and articles/messages have introduced me to a more sane and thought-out side of the conspiracy theory business than a lot of people are used to seeing. That gives me some things to consider.
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megalowho
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Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:33 am
Posts: 479
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:17 pm 
 

Of_This_Night36 wrote:
You spoke in defense of your personal beliefs, they called you pitiful, naive, and a ridiculous fucking retard when they have no proof that you're wrong, and you sympathized with them and called them "the right people".

I can't describe how much this annoys me. Independent research, okay, but this whole thing just sounds like the worst case of "blind leading the blind" I've ever seen and sounds a lot more "ridiculously fucking retarded" than thinking differently than other people, regardless of credibility.


I didn't know I was going to get so much flak for this. :)

For what it's worth, I was in my late teens - so, still in a very formative, insecure period - and my respect for these people antedated any discussions of religion; and it turns out the insults I received and witnessed at the time, though exceedingly harsh, basically weren't off the mark. They were better-informed than I was, their views were better-reasoned, and I learned some stuff from them. Stuff you tend not to hear without wandering outside the Christian community, e.g. concerning the paucity of evidence for many of the most fundamental, metaphysically neutral claims about the historical Jesus. I stuck around long enough to see that their reasons for rejecting Christianity were better than most Christians' reasons for accepting Christianity. Not so much "blind leading the blind" as "blind (myself) being influenced by better-educated, charismatic pricks."

The part I'm really embarrassed about was that these people's e-personalities and stories about their lives made me feel grossly inadequate during this time. Many of them provided good reason to think they had sex lives, attended parties with "normal" people who did drugs and conversed about sports etc., and generally weren't socially retarded. I had been accustomed to expecting people who shared my interests and certain aspects of my disposition to be bitter, basement-dwelling nerds, but they forced me to consider that it was a personal shortcoming of mine not to have this dual identity as a closet dweeb who manages to be "cool" in the conventional sense. They were well-read, sharp-witted, casual nihilists - I spent so much time in their virtual community largely because they were so entertaining, and I eventually decided to leave permanently because my sense of inadequacy as a perpetual lurker was taking a psychological toll on me.

(I'm mainly referring to one forum in particular - the one I decided to leave. I still hang out at a couple others, including this one. The other one's a much smaller community, and I've managed to make a few decent acquaintances there.)

If you find this laughable and pathetic, I won't disagree. It is what it is. But again, this was what happened in my undergrad years, immediately out of high school. Nature never intended for me to be anything but an insecure loser until around my mid-20s. It just takes a while to find your niche and accept yourself sometimes.

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soul_schizm
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:55 am
Posts: 643
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:52 am 
 

Metal didn't change my beliefs at all. For the most part I just love the musical expression. I take the lyrics with a grain of salt. My beliefs are completely separate, come from a completely different place in my life.

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mcmufffins
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:30 am
Posts: 217
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:59 am 
 

I apostatized a few years after getting into metal, but it had nothing to do with music. It happened after I read the Bible for the first time and was like "wait, wtf is this shit?" Oddly enough that was when I started to gain an interest in science haha :lol:
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The Prophet Muhammad
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 87
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:52 pm 
 

Everything you do ought to invoke some sort of introspection. You aren't perfect, and immediate dismissal of incoming information and ideas is a really stupid thing to do. Metal is great because the culture has very little tolerance for religion. A lot of people who get into metal quickly chuck that religious rubbish in the trash. Seems that throughout history, the best music has always been the devil's music.

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Kigo7
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Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:51 pm
Posts: 164
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:00 pm 
 

I've been listening to heavy metal since I was about 16 or 17, and while I was a Christian when I was younger, I definitely grew away from it (Christianity) since I started listening to heavy metal because metal opened me to a lot of different ideas and while I don't necessarily agree with some of them I am willing to at least consider the views of people who espouse them. The great thing about heavy metal is that it gives people freedom to fully explore and articulate what they believe in/hold true rather than what other people tell them. To be honest, I'd rather be self-actualized and have my own ideas than to be told what to believe based on ancient teachings or whatever.

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