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YsmirsBeard666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 110
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:11 pm 
 

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/80s/conte ... ers-anthem

Huh, another one calls him out. This is getting to be a bit amusing. Meh glam music aside, where does Paul Ryan get off just...using band's music like that? Seems to be the case.

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PhilosophicalFrog
The Hypercube

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 7:08 pm
Posts: 5541
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:19 pm 
 

....He enjoys it? So, he wants to use it. I think that's where he "gets off" using it. He believes he is fighting against an entrenched liberal machine and wanted some "battle anthems" like "We're Not Gonna Take It" and RAtM, and I honestly think it's a super prick move for an artist to strip away a fan's contextualization of one of their works. If you don't want people who disagree with you to use your music, than don't make music...but I'm sure Dee, like Tom, is doing this more for pseudo-credibility reasons than any real stance.

I.E - Dee Snider's a fucking idiot, just like the rest of the people who believe that only "liberals" can use their songs.

"There is almost nothing he stands for that I agree with except the use of the P90X." -sigh-

I'm sure Obama is a much better choice for Twisted Sister.
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YsmirsBeard666
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:21 pm 
 

That's stupid, you can absolutely disapprove or somebody using your work for something you disagree with.

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PhilosophicalFrog
The Hypercube

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:32 pm 
 

:lol: yes, of course you can, but why aren't you questioning the motives of their disapproval? It's because they seem to view conservatism as some sort of backwards stance, all the while blindly supporting a "progressive" stance that doesn't believe in progressing. Dee, like Tom, again, is promoting the very same machine they want to rally against, and only fighting against one side of it, and it's the side that they are expected to fight. So, it comes off as a necessary credibility stance, grasping at nothing, because they actually aren't dangerous or slanderous, they are merely making the safe assumption that conservatives can't use their music, which everyone expects them to make.
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YsmirsBeard666
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:40 pm 
 

It could very well be bullshit, obviously Tom Morello is obliged to speak out against everything conservative, and Dee is sort of in that camp too. Regardless, I think that someone like Ron Paul using a song like that without permission of the artist is just stupid. Excuse me while I go play some Napalm Death at the NRA convention...

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PhilosophicalFrog
The Hypercube

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:48 pm 
 

The permission is the only issue I have. So, that's legit. Also, NRA guys may agree with a lot of the messages in the music of Napalm Death. Which is the point I'm trying to get across too....the vague lyrics about oppression and fighting can apply to everyone, and if one writes lyrics like that, expect them to be interpreted in different ways.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:14 pm 
 

PhilosophicalFrog wrote:
:lol: yes, of course you can, but why aren't you questioning the motives of their disapproval? It's because they seem to view conservatism as some sort of backwards stance, all the while blindly supporting a "progressive" stance that doesn't believe in progressing. Dee, like Tom, again, is promoting the very same machine they want to rally against, and only fighting against one side of it, and it's the side that they are expected to fight. So, it comes off as a necessary credibility stance, grasping at nothing, because they actually aren't dangerous or slanderous, they are merely making the safe assumption that conservatives can't use their music, which everyone expects them to make.

Dude, you're making a lot of assumptions about Dee Snider's political stance here. It's pretty clear that the original song was an anthem against conservative white Christian America under Ronald Reagan. Paul Ryan is very much not against that. Dee Snider is pissed that they're misappropriating his song to represent the very thing he was railing against in that song. It's perfectly legitimate for him to do so, and your nonsense about him promoting some progressive stance that you don't agree with really has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.
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Ribos
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:32 pm 
 

Yeah, I'm with fsman here. Regardless of politics, Ryan was using Dee's song without his permission and not at all in a way that could be considered "fair use." That's what the business calls copyright infringement. It's nit like Snyder's camp approved the usage of the song, discovered the politics, and then changed their minds; Ryan never got permission. And that's not cool.

Due to the laws about permission and promotion (as Ryan is using the song to raise money for his campaign, if indirectly), it would also raise the perception that the artist agreed with the political message being delivered by the candidate using their song. It is perfectly legitimate to say that if Dee did not raise an objection, he was implicitly siding with Ryan. So if Dee wants to avoid that association, he has to speak out now.

And for the record, I'd be saying the exact same thing if Obama tried to use a Ted Nugent song or the Green Party tried to use a RATM track without the artists' permission. Even if permission would be granted, you have to get permission FIRST.
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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:04 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Dude, you're making a lot of assumptions about Dee Snider's political stance here. It's pretty clear that the original song was an anthem against conservative white Christian America under Ronald Reagan. Paul Ryan is very much not against that. Dee Snider is pissed that they're misappropriating his song to represent the very thing he was railing against in that song. It's perfectly legitimate for him to do so, and your nonsense about him promoting some progressive stance that you don't agree with really has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.

I hate to be "that guy", but ^^^^^ this.

Also this reminds me of Heart objecting to Sarah Palin's use of their song Barracuda in her campaign. I can totally understand them.
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kbmulkerrins
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:09 pm 
 

Precisely.

It's not a difficult thing to do, if you're running a national political campaign, to contact the artist in question and say, hey, is it cool if I use your song?

And then you can say a polite no. No reason even need be given.

This also happens with every campaign- some artist gets annoyed that their song is being used without their permission for a campaign. Maybe it's because they don't endorse that candidate. Using their music implies that.

Personally, I would probably tell them they could if they made a significant personal contribution to their opponent's war chest, regardless if I agreed with the candidate or not. Mostly for humor purposes.

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John_Sunlight
President Satan

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:07 pm 
 

The permission thing also highlights a level of hypocrisy. These are politicians who generally fight for commercial intellectual property rights.
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Ancient_Sorrow
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:21 pm 
 

If I had a song of such magnitude, I'd certainly want to be able to say "no" to people wanting to polarise it to any particular ideology, especially one which I didn't believe in, or seemed contrary to it's original meaning. It's not for an artist to decide who their fans are, but it's within their remit to disapprove of it's use when it goes against the writer's view. Song-meaning may be subjective to the listener, but to whoever wrote it, it means something, nigh-objectively.

For instance, to make an extreme and probably flawed analogy, it'd be unreasonable for some white-supremacists to warp the essence of Dead Kennedys' "Nazi Punks Fuck Off" to become "(We are) Nazi Punks, (and you can) Fuck Off"
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circleofdestruction
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:50 pm 
 

Yeah, I'm gonna have to side with Dee here, for the reasons Ancient_sorrow and others listed.
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Adriankat
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:55 pm 
 

So far, the only message I've gotten from Paul Ryan is that he's desperately trying to get the young voters that Romney needs. He's like that awkward guy who tries to be down with the cool kids.

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OzzyApu
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:04 pm 
 

Adriankat wrote:
So far, the only message I've gotten from Paul Ryan is that he's desperately trying to get the young voters that Romney needs. He's like that awkward guy who tries to be down with the cool kids.

Like my high school principal. Thought he was down with the hipsters but instead he had everyone's balls in a vice for the sake of his job and his boss' satisfaction.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:01 am 
 

Or my dorm's resident adviser with the Bob Marely shirt and cornrows I blithely offered a joint to my Freshman year--yeesh, just narrowly managed to avoid expulsion.
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WingedOctopus
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:41 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:20 am 
 

Adriankat wrote:
So far, the only message I've gotten from Paul Ryan is that he's desperately trying to get the young voters that Romney needs. He's like that awkward guy who tries to be down with the cool kids.

That's interesting - I've never gotten that impression at all. Do you mean specifically because Ryan is relatively young, or is it something about the way he carries himself?

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ralfikk123
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:22 am 
 

I think the majority of young/er people have more leftist views. That would be a good reason for him to try and get their vote.
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WingedOctopus
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:41 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:28 am 
 

ralfikk123 wrote:
I think the majority of young/er people have more leftist views. That would be a good reason for him to try and get their vote.

No I definitely get why Romney would want to extend to younger voters, but I don't see how Ryan is an appeal to that base. I haven't seen any numbers suggesting that Ryan might have given Romney a bump in young voters either way, regardless.

Sorry if this is getting too off topic. Ryan should just come out to the Trees by Rush. Want's more Randist/Objectivist than that?

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ralfikk123
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:57 pm 
 

From the things I read and heard the Dems and Libs are not even bothered by Ryan being the VP pick.
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ModusOperandi
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 12:52 am
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:33 pm 
 

ralfikk123 wrote:
From the things I read and heard the Dems and Libs are not even bothered by Ryan being the VP pick.


No reason to be concerned. When asked during a recent interview about his record of not allowing rape or incest victims access to abortion services, the FIRST words out of his mouth were:

"I’m very proud of my pro-life record … the method of conception doesn’t change the definition of life."
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Kigo7
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Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:51 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:36 am 
 

Maybe comments like that are why Dee Snider didn't want Paul Ryan or Mitt Romney to get their greasy mitts on his song? But what I don't understand is why would Paul Ryan think that "We're Not Gonna Take It" would appeal to the youth vote.....

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kbmulkerrins
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:28 am
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:11 am 
 

Kigo7 wrote:
Maybe comments like that are why Dee Snider didn't want Paul Ryan or Mitt Romney to get their greasy mitts on his song? But what I don't understand is why would Paul Ryan think that "We're Not Gonna Take It" would appeal to the youth vote.....



It wouldn't necessarily. The song is from the 1984 when the youth and the 20 somethings all started leaning towards conservative politics. Say you're 20 in 1984. That means you're 48 now.

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Goatfangs
Wicker Mantis

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:08 pm 
 

It would be like Neo-nazis using a Heaven Shall Burn song to promote racism.

Actually, I think I recall that actually happening, or something to that effect.

Or an anti-rape group using a Mentors song... even if it is for ironic purposes.

Or Arghoslent being played at an NAACP convention.

Or Nortt being used to try and cheer people up.

Or... you get the point.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:37 pm 
 

ModusOperandi wrote:
ralfikk123 wrote:
From the things I read and heard the Dems and Libs are not even bothered by Ryan being the VP pick.


No reason to be concerned. When asked during a recent interview about his record of not allowing rape or incest victims access to abortion services, the FIRST words out of his mouth were:

"I’m very proud of my pro-life record … the method of conception doesn’t change the definition of life."

In fairness, if you truly believe life begins at conception and abortion is murder, it wouldn't make any sense to give rape or incest victims a free pass. I'm sure there are plenty of children out there who are the products of rape or incest, and their mothers weren't able to get an abortion - we wouldn't say it's OK to euthanize the kids just because their mom had them unwillingly. Obviously life doesn't begin at conception, but Paul Ryan is only being consistent in his views when he says shit like that.
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ModusOperandi
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:43 pm 
 

I don't disagree that he's being consistent, and remarkably so in comparison to Romney. The legality of abortion and contraceptives is a long-standing public policy however and just because his personal beliefs are at odds with it doesn't give him, or any conservative for that matter, carte blanche to be the authority on who receives appropriate medical attention. Attention that should be available to all citizens pertaining to their needs regardless of THEIR personal beliefs, backgrounds, etc. A follower of christian science typically eschews the use of modern medicine when they're ill, but that option shouldn't be taken away from them because of it.

I'm not surprised that Snider called out Ryan for his use of the song, but it's head-scratching that during most election cycles at various levels of government, it seems that there's always one instance of this occurring and the Republicans haven't figured that out yet.

I can only imagine the shitstorm that would occur if they asked any of the original Tampa death metal bands to appear at the RNC this week. You know, since they're all about freedom of expression (unless...)
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:48 pm 
 

ModusOperandi wrote:
I don't disagree that he's being consistent, and remarkably so in comparison to Romney. The legality of abortion and contraceptives is a long-standing public policy however and just because his personal beliefs are at odds with it doesn't give him, or any conservative for that matter, carte blanche to be the authority on who receives appropriate medical attention. Attention that should be available to all citizens pertaining to their needs regardless of THEIR personal beliefs, backgrounds, etc. A follower of christian science typically eschews the use of modern medicine when they're ill, but that option shouldn't be taken away from them because of it.

Well, sure, I'm pro-choice myself. However, these hardline conservatives genuinely believe abortion is murder, and therefore it really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that they're trying to put a stop to it in all forms.
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soul_schizm
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:55 am
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:46 pm 
 

Adriankat wrote:
So far, the only message I've gotten from Paul Ryan is that he's desperately trying to get the young voters that Romney needs. He's like that awkward guy who tries to be down with the cool kids.


Well then he should choose a different song than this one. It's a youthful rallying cry, if you own a time machine that takes you back 20+ years.

More likely he's using stuff that he personally likes, but isn't clue-ing in to the fact that most of the artists who he liked when he was young hate his politics and don't want to be associated with it.

Maybe he should strike up a friendship with Toby Keith...

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kbmulkerrins
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:28 am
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:26 am 
 

soul_schizm wrote:
Adriankat wrote:
So far, the only message I've gotten from Paul Ryan is that he's desperately trying to get the young voters that Romney needs. He's like that awkward guy who tries to be down with the cool kids.


Well then he should choose a different song than this one. It's a youthful rallying cry, if you own a time machine that takes you back 20+ years.

More likely he's using stuff that he personally likes, but isn't clue-ing in to the fact that most of the artists who he liked when he was young hate his politics and don't want to be associated with it.

Maybe he should strike up a friendship with Toby Keith...



Agreed. I don;t think he's trying to get the youth vote with this. If he was he would probably want to use....


er....


I feel old.

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Violent_Possessor
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:43 am 
 

I think a pro-life candidate should use this song. I would vote for them simply because of it. It doesn't take much to sway me.
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kbmulkerrins
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:11 pm 
 

I kinda want to see the Romney Ryan team use that now.

Is there a way we could make this happen? It would be quite funny. Arroyo is Catholic too, no?

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Napero
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:22 pm 
 

kbmulkerrins wrote:
Is there a way we could make this happen? It would be quite funny. Arroyo is Catholic too, no?

I don't think so, villages in the Fallout II universe are not that keen on Christianity. However, Tom Araya, the vocalist/bassist of Slayer, is a Catholic.
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NorthernDarkness6
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:46 pm 
 

I don't think that Dee has a left-right political motive in this. A few years back, he campaigned with Arnold Schwarzennegger and let Ahnold use "We're Not Gonna Take It." I think Dee could have correctly judged that ryan is a trendy fake douchebag and taken issue for that reason.

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kbmulkerrins
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:31 am 
 

Napero wrote:
kbmulkerrins wrote:
Is there a way we could make this happen? It would be quite funny. Arroyo is Catholic too, no?

I don't think so, villages in the Fallout II universe are not that keen on Christianity. However, Tom Araya, the vocalist/bassist of Slayer, is a Catholic.


:facepalm:

Damn. How did I get that name wrong?

ETA: Bronson Arroyo, former member of the Boston Red Sox; Felix Arroyo, former Boston City Councilor.

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Napero
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:50 pm 
 

kbmulkerrins wrote:
I'm from Boston

Desperate to find excuses, eh? APPLICATION DENIED!
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Yahko
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:38 pm 
 

I find it kidna funny that Conservatives need to use songs that get denied again and again - isnt there enough Ted Nugent songs that they can use and he would be happy his song is used. Alice Cooper and Kid Rock follow the same right wing beliefs.

I dont see Democrats using Ted Nugent songs - I wonder why.....
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kbmulkerrins
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:40 pm 
 

Napero wrote:
kbmulkerrins wrote:
I'm from Boston

Desperate to find excuses, eh? APPLICATION DENIED!


Whatevah kehd. Theyahz a keggah down on L Street, wanna go check it out and get wicked hammah'd?

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PhantomGreen
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:53 pm 
 

Just to get this clear if I 'misinterpret' a song, that's copyright infringement?? Last time I checked artists revel in the idea of their music and lyrics being subjective, hence the 'art' part of it. So goddamm, next time I listen to a Hammers of Misfortune song, I better damn well be comprehending what Scalzi/Cobbett are trying to say, God forbid I create my own interpretation or I could risk being MA's next Cinerary.
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soul_schizm
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:28 pm 
 

Yahko wrote:
I find it kidna funny that Conservatives need to use songs that get denied again and again - isnt there enough Ted Nugent songs that they can use and he would be happy his song is used. Alice Cooper and Kid Rock follow the same right wing beliefs.

I dont see Democrats using Ted Nugent songs - I wonder why.....


There are multitudes of country anthems that can be used. It's just that...if you don't really like COUNTRY, it starts to get a bit dicey...

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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:42 am 
 

Yahko wrote:
I find it kidna funny that Conservatives need to use songs that get denied again and again - isnt there enough Ted Nugent songs that they can use and he would be happy his song is used. Alice Cooper and Kid Rock follow the same right wing beliefs.

I dont see Democrats using Ted Nugent songs - I wonder why.....

How about good ol' Born in the USA?

A something something something BORN IN THE USA!

Perfect Conservative, patriotic song.
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