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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 10125
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:06 am 
 

PhilosophicalFrog wrote:
I feel like wanting others to go to heaven isn't a terrible feeling :[

I dunno, I'm an extremely liberal Christian (boooo hisssss!!!) closely allied to liberation theology, combined with the dogmatic aspects of Catholicism/Orthodoxy (I like order and pomp) so I'm really distanced from this whole movement. However, that being said, it's a shame that they hate, but this:

ModusOperandi wrote:
While I absolutely agree that anti-gay sentiment has zero place in today's world, the notion that so many people want to have their stance on an issue vindicated by corporations (Chick-Fil-A, Oreo, etc.) that have little genuine interest outside of the profit margin is silly. One should question the strength of their convictions if that's the medium they choose as their mouthpiece.


Is a valid point and should be taken seriously. The idea of political and spiritual support as marketing ploys has existed for quite some time now, but now with a vocal base for each side, it becomes painfully obvious that many of these companies tug at the heartstrings of their constituents.


"order and pomp!" Love it! Is this the first time on this board you've come out of the christian closet? :P

I agree with the latter point, most certainly; I never really understood why people make a big deal in the media of actors' or musicians views about politics, for example...why should they be any smarter or more knowledgeable than you or I? And businessowners are human beings, too! I wonder who the hell asked the guy his opinion on this shit? Probably a journalist who was hoping to cause a stir and have his own five minutes of fame by "exposing" someone.

Still, I can't see this being much good for business. Although I have to say that it's amusing that I'd never even heard of this franchise until this stuff came out last week. Doesn't mean I want to go there and have the experience now, though, that's for sure.
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PhilosophicalFrog
The Hypercube

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 7:08 pm
Posts: 5557
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:22 am 
 

I believe it is my first time....not quite sure. I've never really made a big deal about it. :lol:

About the idea of businesses, I agree that they are human, and it was probably someone trying to drum up a story, which is why I appreciated his answer of: "guilty as charged" when asked about being anti-gay. It was a straight answer, and I appreciate that, regardless of political sides. But I think that the way they overplay their "family values" angle is definitely for marketing purposes only, just like Oreo's little stunt about being pro-LGBTQ. Even if they are truly committed, and are active in their causes, I find it strange that Oreo's "coming out" was in a sole advertisement, and Chic-Fil-A's was in a story about the success of their business....hmmm
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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 10125
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:52 am 
 

yeah, it seems pretty clear: Oreo = tapping into/affirming the market, Chick = someone trying to burst the bubble a bit. :lol:

And it isn't a big deal, I just wondered if you had mentioned it on here before now. I seem to remember you partakign in some religious discussions earlier but I think I only glanced at that thread...
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enigmatech
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:57 pm
Posts: 321
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:53 am 
 

PhilosophicalFrog wrote:
which is why I appreciated his answer of: "guilty as charged" when asked about being anti-gay.


But to my knowledge he wasn't even responding to being "anti-gay", he was responding to a question about the opposition to his company's stance on "support of the traditional family". I may not have read the same article that you did, however.

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Bezerko
Vladimir Poopin

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:50 am
Posts: 4805
Location: Venestraya
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:12 pm 
 

Damnit, reading this thread has resulted in the situation that I now feel like Oreos.

I hate you all.

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circleofdestruction
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:15 am
Posts: 805
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:14 pm 
 

MalignantThrone wrote:
ralfikk123 wrote:
Well apparently the founder of the company is a die-hard conservative Christian whose aim is to spread his ideas through the company. Never ever going into that place.

Oh please. It's not like they're slipping Bibles into your carry-out bags or forcing you to recite Luke 23:43 on a whim if you want to eat there.

Besides, after reading into this case a bit more I see that the restaurant chain is hardly "bashing homosexuals". S. Cathy basically publicly released a statement that says he supports the traditional marriage between a man and a woman. It's a bit douchey to LGBTs, but most Christians feel that way anyways, and he wasn't being particularly vehement about it. It's a far cry from allying with the Westboro Baptist Church or anything like that.

I haven't been following this shit so much, but the idea I got was not that it had to do with their ideas, but rather, that if you ate there, your money goes to anti-gay organizations. If they make financial contributions to anti-gay groups, then you are supporting anti-gay groups by giving them your money.

I really don't think many people care if the owner hates gays, it's that he actively uses the money he makes from the business to support gay hate.

I've never eaten there. I'd boycott them just for being closed on sundays, personally.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9408
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:23 pm 
 

enigmatech wrote:
But to my knowledge he wasn't even responding to being "anti-gay", he was responding to a question about the opposition to his company's stance on "support of the traditional family". I may not have read the same article that you did, however.

"Support of the traditional family" is code for being anti-gay.
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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 2001
Location: In the Open Sea
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:10 pm 
 

PhilosophicalFrog wrote:
just like Oreo's little stunt about being pro-LGBTQ.

Doritos was doing something similar with a rainbow line around Pride week. Gay pride has never looked so .. color-saturated.

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Count Dirt Nap
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:05 pm
Posts: 87
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:26 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
enigmatech wrote:
But to my knowledge he wasn't even responding to being "anti-gay", he was responding to a question about the opposition to his company's stance on "support of the traditional family". I may not have read the same article that you did, however.

"Support of the traditional family" is code for being anti-gay.


I like to think they are against divorce-remarriage and adoption

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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
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Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:17 pm 
 

I'm pretty sure pro traditional family mostly means anti same sex relationships too. Isn't anglo-saxon protestantism... like... founded on divorce-remarriage?
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Last edited by inhumanist on Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dux_Saxoniae
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:56 am
Posts: 102
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:39 pm 
 

Yeah, I don't think the owner's personal feelings matter - that Chick-Fil-A is funneling millions of dollars to anti-gay organisations does, though.

I'm actually an evangelical Christian (albeit of the left-wing variety), so I reckon that when these folks say they support 'the traditional family', they mean the 1950s family, i.e. when they could pretend gay people didn't exist and women and black people didn't threaten their privilege.

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Incantation
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:35 am
Posts: 60
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:26 pm 
 

While the Onion is satire and usually really hilarious, this is sadly true, the Queer-Hater sandwich is not as far as I know, but check out snopes: http://www.snopes.com/politics/sexuality/chickfila.asp

Now I believe in the right to free speech, but it's honestly a bad business move to really say anything one way or another political, being neutral is best for most businesses.

I doubt I'll stop eating their chicken cause it is really good, but I don't agree with their President. I'm a Christian and I think people like him and the WBC give us a really bad name. The Lutheran Church has come out and said they support same sex marriage. They believe, like the bible says, it's God's job to judge, not us. There are several quotes in the bible that state not to judge others, these idiots that focus more on gay people than helping others really piss me off. I just send them these quotes to remind them how stupid they are:
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." -Matthew 7:1-5

"Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." -1 John 4:8
This one I use on the WBC, how can God hate fags if God is love, idiots all of them. I almost never say I'm Christian since I think people should not push their beliefs on others and I don't want to be seen as trying to do that, but this is relevant.

Also if these folks read the bible they would know traditional marriage was not one man one woman, it's one man and a bunch of women and you can sell your daughter into marriage for a certain number of livestock. You can sell your children into slavery and many other things that are not condoned by Christians anymore, times change, there's nothing wrong with that. I think even if you still think gay marriage is a sin, leave others alone and focus on loving each other and helping those in need. That's where this money should have gone. The fact that there are groups dedicated to destroying people's happiness that's not hurting anyone else sickens me on a deep level.

I support free speech, but it doesn't mean I have to support what they are saying.
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circleofdestruction
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:15 am
Posts: 805
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:29 pm 
 

Dux_Saxoniae wrote:
Yeah, I don't think the owner's personal feelings matter - that Chick-Fil-A is funneling millions of dollars to anti-gay organisations does, though.

I'm actually an evangelical Christian (albeit of the left-wing variety), so I reckon that when these folks say they support 'the traditional family', they mean the 1950s family, i.e. when they could pretend gay people didn't exist and women and black people didn't threaten their privilege.

This. I've seen a lot of this on facebook and it seems that people have the wrong idea of what's going on.

I'm an atheist and for gay rights (because I can't come with logical, nonreligious reasons to be anti-gay). I would have no problem eating at a place where the owner was a Christian or even homophobic or whatever, but I might have a problem if I think that my money is going right to anti-gay organizations, because I would not contribute to those organizations on my own.
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Dux_Saxoniae
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:56 am
Posts: 102
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:35 pm 
 

Incantation wrote:
The fact that there are groups dedicated to destroying people's happiness that's not hurting anyone else sickens me on a deep level.

This. As they say, if you don't like gay marriage then don't get gay-married. But putting all your efforts into stopping other people from getting married? That's pretty despicable, and not compatible with any version of Christianity I'd want to be a part of.

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mindshadow
Echoes in an empty cranium

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 1966
Location: Panopticon
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:53 pm 
 

Luke 6:31

Do unto others as you would have them do to you


Matthew 7:1

Judge not, that you may not be judged


Image
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Kahalachan
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 1:46 am
Posts: 336
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:51 pm 
 

Why is Chick fil-a not concerned with their promotion of gluttony? Can homeless people just walk into Chick fil-a and get a free meal? How about using one biscuit and one chicken to feed 5,000 people?

And why am I bothering with logic when discussing religion? I should realize it has no place here :P

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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 2001
Location: In the Open Sea
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:56 pm 
 

Incantation wrote:
The fact that there are groups dedicated to destroying people's happiness that's not hurting anyone else sickens me on a deep level.

I support free speech, but it doesn't mean I have to support what they are saying.

Absolutely. They have no more obligation to serve those who they discriminate against than we have obligation to buy their product or contribute to their campaign of evil. If anything free speech gives us clear indication of where to avoid wasting money. Thank you, bigots, for making my commercial decisions that much easier.


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Kahalachan wrote:
And why am I bothering with logic when discussing religion? I should realize it has no place here :P

Give not into temptation for it will lead you down the path of wtf.

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mcmufffins
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:30 am
Posts: 217
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:07 pm 
 

As long as Chik-fil-a doesn't discriminate against gays, I don't see the problem. I disagree with Chik-fil-a's views, but their entitled to have their own opinion.

With that said, I fucking love their food. :headbang:
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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7741
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:22 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
enigmatech wrote:
But to my knowledge he wasn't even responding to being "anti-gay", he was responding to a question about the opposition to his company's stance on "support of the traditional family". I may not have read the same article that you did, however.

"Support of the traditional family" is code for being anti-gay.

It's especially irritating when these people say they support the "Biblical" idea of the family unit, apparently unaware that this would mean one man and his harem of wives.
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AcidWorm
Veteran

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:37 pm
Posts: 2707
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:10 pm 
 

Zelkiiro wrote:
AcidWorm wrote:
but their moral code comes from the bible so they can't argue and they have strong fundamental beliefs that they feel it is their duty to help convert everyone else so we can all get into heaven.

...Well, yeah? That's kinda the idea.

It may be the idea but who are they to decide how we should live our lives? As long as we are living within the laws and respecting one another then they have nothing to complain about.
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Xeogred
Thunderbolt from Hell

Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:28 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:20 pm 
 

Popeyes is better anyways.

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AcidWorm
Veteran

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:37 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:29 pm 
 

I use Southern Classic usually as it is the cheapest and there is one right around the corner from where I work.
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tanabata wrote:
I heard one of the moderators blacklisted them because of his subjective opinion. Well If that is the case, you sir have shit taste and you ain't my nigga!

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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
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Location: In the Open Sea
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:30 pm 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
It's especially irritating when these people say they support the "Biblical" idea of the family unit, apparently unaware that this would mean one man and his harem of wives.

As if they .. heh .. hadn't even read it?

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conquer__all
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:49 pm
Posts: 240
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:51 pm 
 

I never eat there because they are Christians and I don't support Christianity. As far as them being anti-gay I guess they have the right to be, and if you don't like it, don't eat there, plan and simple!
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MalignantThrone
Vanished in the Cosmic Futility

Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 1:24 am
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:56 pm 
 

conquer__all wrote:
I never eat there because they are Christians and I don't support Christianity.

Good luck managing to go through your life while refusing to make business transactions with 1/3rd of the human population.
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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 2001
Location: In the Open Sea
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:13 am 
 

conquer__all wrote:
I never eat there because they are Christians and I don't support Christianity.

You can just boycott the assholes, not the rest of them.

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EmeraldEdge9832
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:01 pm
Posts: 174
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:32 pm 
 

Quote:
I never eat there because they are Christians and I don't support Christianity

Are you serious? Christians make up at least 80% of the country. Do you plan on boycotting every other business run by Christians? Also buying their product isn't supporting their religious beliefs.

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Yahko
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:27 pm
Posts: 234
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:40 pm 
 

I think there is a difference between a corporation that is supporting the "Christian" or biblical way about marriage, but donating money to an anti gay foundation is a bit too much. I dont know how I would feel if one of the Canadian companies would support something as ridiculous as anti this or anti that. I might consider stop buying their products or using their services.

But an additional question is - do you support businesses that use cheap sweatshop labor for example. Tomorrow a business would come up with a new controversial anti something. I think all businesses should be supportive of the society their are in and which they get their business from - so if a shop in San Francisco would go gay bashing I dont think they would survive for long. But If its a gay bashing store in Georgia I dont think they really care because their clientele is not who they bash.

If you are a business who want to give a good product/service and being part of a community then you shouldn't support anything controversial because selling burgers has nothing to do with being gay or strait/ black or white/man or woman.
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mcmufffins
Metal newbie

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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:01 pm 
 

This reminds me of when Christians freaked out over Oreo's pro-gay marriage ad. :lol:
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MudslimeMuhammad
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Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 7:45 am
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:26 pm 
 

I am anti-gay but Chick-fil-a are fools. This is a bad buisness move and it will only cost them money. Obama is going to be re-elected and gays will get their marridge next year. The opposers of gay marridge will cry as gays have vulgar parades. Chick-al-fil can't change this. The powers that be are using the gay maridge as an issue to distract people from more important issues such as the upcomming war in Iran and the fact the American economy is going downhill. Liberals/hippies that care about gays getting married and homophobic puritans obsessed with gays have 1 thing in common, they are both idiots.

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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
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Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:40 pm 
 

MudslimeMuhammad wrote:
I am anti-gay but Chick-fil-a are fools. This is a bad buisness move and it will only cost them money. Obama is going to be re-elected and gays will get their marridge next year. The opposers of gay marridge will cry as gays have vulgar parades. Chick-al-fil can't change this. The powers that be are using the gay maridge as an issue to distract people from more important issues such as the upcomming war in Iran and the fact the American economy is going downhill. Liberals/hippies that care about gays getting married and homophobic puritans obsessed with gays have 1 thing in common, they are both idiots.

:durr:
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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 4641
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:36 pm 
 

Not that I'm as keen on being kind towards MM as I was a few minutes ago after reading that, but he's right that Obama's pro-gay stance is a false flag effort to draw focus off his neolib/neocon policies at large. The right to marry is an important improvement for the lives of gays and should not be shrugged off, but it in no way brings closure the myriad struggles necessary to advance the rights and prosperity of LGBT people and the idea that this establishes Obama as a lesser, rather than more subtle, of two evils is wrong and dangerous.
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inhumanist
Metal freak

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Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:41 pm 
 

Yeah I'm not very familiar with the details of US domestic politics, it just seemed like an overally dumb series of statements to me. I don't like Obama either.
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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7741
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:43 am 
 

MudslimeMuhammad wrote:
I am anti-gay but Chick-fil-a are fools. This is a bad buisness move and it will only cost them money. Obama is going to be re-elected and gays will get their marridge next year. The opposers of gay marridge will cry as gays have vulgar parades. Chick-al-fil can't change this. The powers that be are using the gay maridge as an issue to distract people from more important issues such as the upcomming war in Iran and the fact the American economy is going downhill. Liberals/hippies that care about gays getting married and homophobic puritans obsessed with gays have 1 thing in common, they are both idiots.

I'm not sure what's funnier; your repeated inability to spell "marriage" or the way your username conjures images of an Islamic scat fetish.

No, wait, it's your general wanker-ness between here and the pantheism thread.
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ralfikk123
Waffle

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:14 am
Posts: 1314
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:02 pm 
 

MudslimeMuhammad wrote:
I am anti-gay but Chick-fil-a are fools. This is a bad buisness move and it will only cost them money. Obama is going to be re-elected and gays will get their marridge next year. The opposers of gay marridge will cry as gays have vulgar parades. Chick-al-fil can't change this. The powers that be are using the gay maridge as an issue to distract people from more important issues such as the upcomming war in Iran and the fact the American economy is going downhill. Liberals/hippies that care about gays getting married and homophobic puritans obsessed with gays have 1 thing in common, they are both idiots.


:durr: Beyond idiotic!
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oogboog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 864
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:19 pm 
 

ralfikk123 wrote:
MudslimeMuhammad wrote:
I am anti-gay but Chick-fil-a are fools. This is a bad buisness move and it will only cost them money. Obama is going to be re-elected and gays will get their marridge next year. The opposers of gay marridge will cry as gays have vulgar parades. Chick-al-fil can't change this. The powers that be are using the gay maridge as an issue to distract people from more important issues such as the upcomming war in Iran and the fact the American economy is going downhill. Liberals/hippies that care about gays getting married and homophobic puritans obsessed with gays have 1 thing in common, they are both idiots.


:durr: Beyond idiotic!

Is he stoned? He actually reminds me the way I usually talk. And the gays will rise? :lol: Yeah, right.
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Ribos
Radioactive Man

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:19 pm 
 

By the way, in case anyone is questioning the Christianity of the company... I remember a few years ago they gave out Veggie Tales toys with their kids meals. For those not aware, it's a show designed to teach kids Christian morals by replicating Bible stories (in a more family-friendly manner) and explicitly discussing Bible verses.

To say their views do not affect their business is to turn a blind eye to reality.

Recently, the company wanted to add a location here in Chicago, and the alderman of that ward flat-out turned them down, with the mayor supporting him. The best part, though? The proposed location was just a few blocks south of a major gay neighborhood!
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Metal_Detector
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:27 pm 
 

MudslimeMuhammad wrote:
And the gays will rise

Sounds like the next Manowar concept album.

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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
Posts: 8487
Location: Québec
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:37 pm 
 

I strongly suggest that you guys ignore MudslimeMuhammed or this thread gonna more stupid and locked.

"War > civl rights" it is known.
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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4170
Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:40 pm 
 

Metal_Detector wrote:
MudslimeMuhammad wrote:
And the gays will rise

Sounds like the next Manowar concept album.

More like Nanowar!
Edit: Oops, sorry Meta.
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Celtic Frosted Flakes wrote:
Compared to how it is here in Sweden, fascism sounds like paradise.
Metantoine wrote:
If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?

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