Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Search   * Register   * Login 



Reply to topic  
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
HamburgerBoy
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:40 am
Posts: 1520
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:04 am 
 

Di3inpain wrote:
i seriously doubt rack manufactures care about taking the best care of cds. they are selling an item to make a profit, not to care for your collection.

gravity is an enemy when storing cds flat. eventually, gravity can peel the layers that make up a cd apart. that said, it is not a problem that rears its ugly head often. libraries, archives and government agencies store information on optical media in an upright position. there is a reason for it. but hell, they are your discs, so store them however you like. myself, i store them like a book, in cd cases in a controlled environment.

...

EDIT:
someone will likely call out my gravity idea, so hopefully this will clear things up. it all has to do with mass - a disc is more affected by gravity when flat since more of its mass is exposed to it.

"Here on earth, gravity pulls stuff down. In fact, that's what we mean by "down" -- it's the direction in which stuff falls when you drop it. The ordinary ("Newtonian") view of gravity is that it is a force which attracts objects to each other. Forces can bend objects. If you hold a long, bendable object on one end, gravity pulls down on the whole thing, and the object will bend downwards. A diving board will bend under its own weight. Gelatin dessert bends under its weight. People who design buildings and bridges and such stuff have to worry about the weight of all the material pushing down on supports, bending things. I once heard on the radio show "Car Talk" that even the hoods of some cars can sag downwards if they are not properly braced. Wires between telephone poles and electricity distribution towers sag under their own weight.

... "


A diving board bends at one end because the greatest amount torque is produced by the mass of the board most distal to the joint. A CD is perfectly symmetrical, and weighing some trivial amount and nestled tight and proper in a CD case, there is no way any appreciable amount of "warp" is going to occur (putting aside the dubiousness of your first claim regarding peeling occurring in any case).

Top
 Profile  
Buried_Death
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:12 am
Posts: 1481
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:05 am 
 

HamburgerBoy wrote:
Di3inpain wrote:
i seriously doubt rack manufactures care about taking the best care of cds. they are selling an item to make a profit, not to care for your collection.

gravity is an enemy when storing cds flat. eventually, gravity can peel the layers that make up a cd apart. that said, it is not a problem that rears its ugly head often. libraries, archives and government agencies store information on optical media in an upright position. there is a reason for it. but hell, they are your discs, so store them however you like. myself, i store them like a book, in cd cases in a controlled environment.

...

EDIT:
someone will likely call out my gravity idea, so hopefully this will clear things up. it all has to do with mass - a disc is more affected by gravity when flat since more of its mass is exposed to it.

"Here on earth, gravity pulls stuff down. In fact, that's what we mean by "down" -- it's the direction in which stuff falls when you drop it. The ordinary ("Newtonian") view of gravity is that it is a force which attracts objects to each other. Forces can bend objects. If you hold a long, bendable object on one end, gravity pulls down on the whole thing, and the object will bend downwards. A diving board will bend under its own weight. Gelatin dessert bends under its weight. People who design buildings and bridges and such stuff have to worry about the weight of all the material pushing down on supports, bending things. I once heard on the radio show "Car Talk" that even the hoods of some cars can sag downwards if they are not properly braced. Wires between telephone poles and electricity distribution towers sag under their own weight.

... "


A diving board bends at one end because the greatest amount torque is produced by the mass of the board most distal to the joint. A CD is perfectly symmetrical, and weighing some trivial amount and nestled tight and proper in a CD case, there is no way any appreciable amount of "warp" is going to occur (putting aside the dubiousness of your first claim regarding peeling occurring in any case).


First off the cases would all have to bend and warp before it would get to the disk. Also due to the disk being risen you'd need so much weight that the front case can press down against the disk making it bend out of shape. I have never heard of anyone have this problem with DVDs or CDs. The only way I can ever see this happening is if you keep your CDs near a heater. Meaning due to the heat the plastic gets hot and the weight pushing down on the CDs makes them bend out of shape / melt. As for keeping CDs in a temp controlled room and having them stacked on top of each other I can never see gravity being much of a problem facts or not. I have had CDs stacked like this for over 15 years and never seen one of them warp it seems crazy the ideas people come up with all the time. Next you'll be saying stacking tapes makes them warp and bend :durr:
_________________
Darkness Shade Records

Top
 Profile  
kingnuuuur
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:35 pm
Posts: 2123
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:43 pm 
 

There's some grain of truth to his post though. It takes some special circumstances, but I know that it's completely possible because it already happened to me. Had a couple hundred CDs and a dozen books stacked flat on a long (~2 m) shelf for nearly a decade, and maybe it's because I live in an area where hot weather and high humidity are the norm, but I remember 3 of them that were on the bottom near the middle of the shelf that got bent inwards. It was slight, but they completely failed to play. Only after clearing the shelf did I notice that it was bowed, and that some jewel cases had indeed quietly snapped. There's a number of different possible reasons and explanations I can offer you; one is that the shelf was made of affordable quality plastic of relatively low stiffness. Another is that it underwent a long, slow remolding process: ~30°C in summer, ~14°C in winter for years must've had some impact. That, coupled with the overall weight... you get the picture. By the way, that's something the posters in the thread you linked to did not take into account.

As has been said before, it's a possibility, however remote, that does require certain conditions in order to be fulfilled, but it's definitely not a "myth" or a "rumor" as you repeatedly put it. I guess the take-home message is, why take the risk? Just store them upright.

Top
 Profile  
orionmetalhead
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:54 am
Posts: 2453
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:04 pm 
 

Buried_Death wrote:
First off the cases would all have to bend and warp before it would get to the disk.


That's not true. Cd's in cases are still affected by gravity without the cases being affected by gravity just like a human in a car is still affected by the momentum of movement separately from the car. If a car hits a pole going 50... the human inside is still going to fly through the window. If a cd is laid flat, the disc will still be affected by gravity without the case having to be affected. The fact that in a cd case, the disc is suspended around the center spool can, maybe rarely but still possibly, be affected around the edges by the effects of gravity.
_________________
CONTAMINATED TONES - BLOG/LABEL/DISTRO
Facebook

Top
 Profile  
kingnuuuur
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:35 pm
Posts: 2123
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:25 pm 
 

I don't think that the Earth's gravitational pull alone is enough to warp a floating CD significantly. Maybe if you waited a million years...

A combination of heat and pressure against a non-flat surface will do it in much shorter time.

Top
 Profile  
orionmetalhead
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:54 am
Posts: 2453
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:36 pm 
 

kingnuuuur wrote:
I don't think that the Earth's gravitational pull alone is enough to warp a floating CD significantly. Maybe if you waited a million years...

A combination of heat and pressure against a non-flat surface will do it in much shorter time.


Yes, that's ultimately what I was getting at and what I meant to say. ^_^
_________________
CONTAMINATED TONES - BLOG/LABEL/DISTRO
Facebook

Top
 Profile  
ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 11771
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:16 am 
 

SHUTUPANDDIE wrote:
ShaolinLambKiller wrote:
Yea that's a very sad site. there is no reason anyone should listen to that band.



That would be a very sad "sight," (not to mention it's kinda sad that people care about shit like that...good thing I didn't show my REM or U2 discs...) and I dig your sig btw. Very true!

Come to think of it, I'm actually a little disappointed no one griped about my Ill Nino cd in there...



I'm just busting your balls. Though I like REM and U2 those are just better in general. I didn't know who Ill Nino was either way otherwise I would've lolled on it too.

Thanks I'm glad you agree. I've been getting some pm's about it saying otherwise.
_________________
A bunch of mp3s is not a collection of anything.
http://www.cavepaints.com <--Horrid art and musics.
http://www.facebook.com/MaulerCustomCabs <--- huge heavy/loud boxes I build.
http://speedritualrecords.storenvy.com/ Check out my music here

Top
 Profile  
Glentxa
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:30 am
Posts: 328
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:42 am 
 

Di3inpain wrote:
Glentxa wrote:
And about the stacking thing, how come they sell CD racks that store them horizontally?


i seriously doubt rack manufactures care about taking the best care of cds. they are selling an item to make a profit, not to care for your collection.

gravity is an enemy when storing cds flat. eventually, gravity can peel the layers that make up a cd apart. that said, it is not a problem that rears its ugly head often. libraries, archives and government agencies store information on optical media in an upright position. there is a reason for it. but hell, they are your discs, so store them however you like. myself, i store them like a book, in cd cases in a controlled environment. "

Wow but how much time are we talking about here for that to happen? Because surely that would affect anything stored flat...
_________________
Zerberus wrote:
I recon this would sound better if everything was different.

Top
 Profile  
Dark_Gnat
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 484
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:57 pm 
 

There's also that CD-eating fungus to worry about if you live in warm, humid climates (like me). It's also mutated to eat vinyl too.

I'm not making this up, btw:

http://www.stereophile.com/news/11073/
_________________
FYI: 89% of all statistics are made up on the spot - including this one - which proves my point.

Top
 Profile  
AW666
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:57 pm
Posts: 180
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:55 am 
 

Dark_Gnat wrote:
There's also that CD-eating fungus to worry about if you live in warm, humid climates (like me). It's also mutated to eat vinyl too.

I'm not making this up, btw:

http://www.stereophile.com/news/11073/

That article was published 11 years ago. Is there an up-to-date entry that can still confirm what was written a decade ago to be true?

Anyway, even if I did live in Central/South America CDs give me the convenience of creating backups, in case one of my CDs become unusable.
_________________
Napero responding to a Tool hate thread wrote:
I suggest you join a Lady Gaga fan board and explain how much you dislike System of a Down next.

Top
 Profile  
Dark_Gnat
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 484
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:20 pm 
 

Well, plastic-eating bacteria do exist. Remember that plastic is simply oil polychains, and there are lots of bacteria that thrive on oil.

Here's some other stuff I've found. Not really much newer, but I haven't found anything to refute it either.

http://foothillsnerd.com/compact-disc-dvd-metal-eating-fungi-really-exists/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1402533.stm
http://www.nature.com/news/1998/010628/full/news010628-11.html

Some info on CD Rot
http://cdrot.com/info/why-are-cd-rotting-how-it-happens

Bonus:

This is totally unrelated, but this is an article about zombie ants. :)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/mar/02/fungi-zombie-ants-amazon
_________________
FYI: 89% of all statistics are made up on the spot - including this one - which proves my point.

Top
 Profile  
Di3inpain
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:47 pm
Posts: 65
Location: florida
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:01 am 
 

Glentxa wrote:
Wow but how much time are we talking about here for that to happen? Because surely that would affect anything stored flat...


too many variables to give a definitive answer. humidity, temp. swings, media quality, etc. all play a part.

do i think its possible...yes.
do i think its probable...usually not. but it depends....

why risk it?

i have seen layer separation happen on cds and cd-rs stored flat. i have seen warping (imo mainly based on extreme temp. swings in combination with excess stacking/weight but either way it results in unplayable media) of cds and cd-rs.

ill try to make this phenomenon as plain as i can - take a new/crisp paper bill and hold it so you are looking the president in the eye (the thickness of the bill being challenged by gravity). hold it for 5, 10, 60 seconds (doesnt really matter....). note how the bill keeps its integrity (doesnt flex/bend). now rotate the bill 90 degrees for the same amount of time . what happens? because more mass is exposed to gravity, it bends. now add the layers a cd is made of....

again, why risk it?

Top
 Profile  
Glentxa
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:30 am
Posts: 328
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:49 am 
 

Hmmmm, I'm trying not to get paranoid about this but I can see myself investing in some vertical storage cases soon...
_________________
Zerberus wrote:
I recon this would sound better if everything was different.

Top
 Profile  
Malexecration
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 5:53 pm
Posts: 56
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:14 pm 
 

tolerancezero666 wrote:
I know some people burn their cds right after they purchase it, and then store the original in a safe place. They just listen to the burned version, and one day if anything happens, he can burn the original again.
It's pretty intelligent but I don't have the time or the courage to do this. I have too many cds to start doing this now...



Thats exactly what I do, I never listen to my original cds. You should actually reconsider doing this since it keeps your cds in top-notch condition.

Another thing that recently started doing is placing my cds in resealable clear plastic storage sleeves. Works perfectly if you happen to live/have an area where dust/debri is present or have children with "sticky" fingers.
_________________
Infernal Conjuration
https://www.facebook.com/#!/infernalconjuration

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic Go to page Previous  1, 2


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BastardHead and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group