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Gelal
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Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:42 am
Posts: 904
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 12:43 pm 
 

Derigin wrote:
TV shows are not books; books do not read as good TV shows. Why might they be skimming on certain events or killing characters that do not die yet in the story? The reason might be simple; the medium demands it. If a certain event deviates too far from the given plot of the show, or - and more likely - is just too costly to finance, then there likely was an executive decision to cut it. The same is true for actors who might have other priorities/desires, or who may require too much pay per episode. Books are as limited as the paper they're written on; I'd hazard an assumption that the TV show has more pressure placed in it than the book. That said, this is a collaboration between the author and the producers - producers who already know how the book series will end - so they may be looking for ways to expedite the story so they don't require 10+ seasons to do it.


Yeah, that's what I'm hoping (also the fact that I dislike some of the changes does not mean I do not understand the reasons behind them). It would suck balls if they deviated in ways that can't be reconciled with what will happen in the coming books and we ended up with two significantly different stories. But since the author's involved, that's fortunately very unlikely.
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Under_Starmere
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:00 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 1:02 pm 
 

Have to say I've enjoyed the last two episodes the least of all so far. Lamez :( It's really weird how during these drastic story deviations (even for someone who hasn't read the books) the writing seems strangely... thinner, or blander somehow. Sort of generically (or not particularly thoughtfully) delivered. Like the show as a whole suddenly got a lot dumber. Hoping it's just a rough patch and things get back on track soon!
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:37 pm 
 

Quote:
It's really weird how during these drastic story deviations (even for someone who hasn't read the books) the writing seems strangely... thinner, or blander somehow.

Well, what else can you expect from the writers of Troy?
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
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Kveldulfr
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:01 pm
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Location: Chile
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:29 pm 
 

This second season has been overall way inferior to the first one. The last 2 ep were really awful (I haven't read the book btw but I'm planning to get them and see if the TV adaptation is bad and/or the books are).

To this point, the Dany's arc is bland as shit (and looks like she won't be doing nothing worthwhile anytime soon). Snow too - but I have hope in him and it's pretty obvious that greater things are planned for him. I hope this gets better in the next chapters, where I suppose more treason will happen.

As simple impressions, I fucking hate Sansa but I guess she'll be around for a while. Arya is way better as a character but as usual, she'll get killed or something for pure shock value. I hope Joffrey will be butchered soon - and I think it'll happen somewhere in the story. I don't mind vile characters but he's simply imbecile. Theon looks so wimpy that I think he'll get killed soon too - I can't and won't buy his 'oh, I'm such a cruel prince' stance. The only character that I see 'safe' for now is Baelish. I don't like him, but it's a smart man. Tyrion is another interesting guy who keeps this (going to the shithole) plot.
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Messiah_X
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Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:38 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 6:03 pm 
 

Kveldulfr wrote:
To this point, the Dany's arc is bland as shit (and looks like she won't be doing nothing worthwhile anytime soon).


You would be correct, but this is a problem in the books as well. Pretty spot on on a lot of other points too, but rest assured if they get a few things back on track the story will get a lot better. There are plenty of characters far more vile than Joffrey, who is more or less, not much more than a little shit on a power trip. This is definitely a series that requires patience and attention, and doesn't often provide instant gratification.

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Animicantus
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 7:01 pm 
 

I just realized, they've cut Varys and Shae out a lot. Those two pop up in nearly every single Tyrion segment in the A Clash of Kings. Varys especially, we haven't seen much of. Which is a shame, because he's probably one of my favorite non-POV characters. In fact, they've simplified Tyrion's role in everything very very much. I'd argue that he, Theon, and Bran (and Jon Snow in the latter half of the book) are the three most central POV characters in the novel. Basically everything that's going on in the book relates back to the actions of one of those three. But alas, to translate it to television would be impossible I think.
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zingote
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:57 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:36 am 
 

Animicantus wrote:
I just realized, they've cut Varys and Shae out a lot. Those two pop up in nearly every single Tyrion segment in the A Clash of Kings. Varys especially, we haven't seen much of. Which is a shame, because he's probably one of my favorite non-POV characters. In fact, they've simplified Tyrion's role in everything very very much. I'd argue that he, Theon, and Bran (and Jon Snow in the latter half of the book) are the three most central POV characters in the novel. Basically everything that's going on in the book relates back to the actions of one of those three. But alas, to translate it to television would be impossible I think.


Tyrion is probably the most prominent character in ACOK. Most of his key scenes have been included (arrival in KL, Janos Slynt scene, Lancel scene, The Alchemist Guild encounter, riot in KL, plotting with Varys/Littlefinger/Pycelle and from the trailers we know that the scene where "he tells Cersei that he will hurt her" will be there as well as the battle of the Blackwater.

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Animicantus
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:13 pm 
 

zingote wrote:
Animicantus wrote:
I just realized, they've cut Varys and Shae out a lot. Those two pop up in nearly every single Tyrion segment in the A Clash of Kings. Varys especially, we haven't seen much of. Which is a shame, because he's probably one of my favorite non-POV characters. In fact, they've simplified Tyrion's role in everything very very much. I'd argue that he, Theon, and Bran (and Jon Snow in the latter half of the book) are the three most central POV characters in the novel. Basically everything that's going on in the book relates back to the actions of one of those three. But alas, to translate it to television would be impossible I think.


Tyrion is probably the most prominent character in ACOK. Most of his key scenes have been included (arrival in KL, Janos Slynt scene, Lancel scene, The Alchemist Guild encounter, riot in KL, plotting with Varys/Littlefinger/Pycelle and from the trailers we know that the scene where "he tells Cersei that he will hurt her" will be there as well as the battle of the Blackwater.


Indeed, but still. I feel like Tyrion's ingenuity with his planning, and his concerns just don't translate well onto screen the way it does in the book.
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It also sounds like he says "The raven licks my asshole" as the first vocal line there. It never fails to crack me up.

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HellBlazer
Veteran

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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:06 pm 
 

It's confirmed that they're auditioning for Edmure Tully for season 3.

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Messiah_X
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:38 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:44 am 
 

Animicantus wrote:
I just realized, they've cut Varys and Shae out a lot. Those two pop up in nearly every single Tyrion segment in the A Clash of Kings. Varys especially, we haven't seen much of. Which is a shame, because he's probably one of my favorite non-POV characters. In fact, they've simplified Tyrion's role in everything very very much. I'd argue that he, Theon, and Bran (and Jon Snow in the latter half of the book) are the three most central POV characters in the novel. Basically everything that's going on in the book relates back to the actions of one of those three. But alas, to translate it to television would be impossible I think.

Tyrion is probably the most prominent character in ACOK. Most of his key scenes have been included (arrival in KL, Janos Slynt scene, Lancel scene, The Alchemist Guild encounter, riot in KL, plotting with Varys/Littlefinger/Pycelle and from the trailers we know that the scene where "he tells Cersei that he will hurt her" will be there as well as the battle of the Blackwater.

Indeed, but still. I feel like Tyrion's ingenuity with his planning, and his concerns just don't translate well onto screen the way it does in the book.


You know, after reading this, it got me wondering. Why the hell hasn't Tyrion started building the chain? That would have been a much better scene than the one we got with Tyrion and Cersei playing nice with each other. Up until I thought of this I thought they had Tyrion's scenes pretty spot on. However with the Battle of Blackwater only 2 episodes away, I really hope they take some time to include Tyrion's chain and other preparations for the upcoming battle. It would really dumb down Tyrion's ingenuity to remove his greatest tactical achievement in the entire series.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 4:46 pm 
 

I hope we'll see the chain as well. And yes, regarding what has been said about Varys and Shae, it's amazing that for all the sex and boobs this show has, pretty much all of the S2 sex scenes are totally made up and we've seen nothing between Shae and Tyrion (not that I really care about seeing dwarf porn mind you :D) who are constantly getting it on in the book. She's supposed to be his whore, y'know? Not just his whore, but his whore giving him the girlfriend experience, so to speak. She's supposed to be what's on his mind most of the time (when he's not worrying about bigger things like the war, obviously). I'm not unhappy that we see little of TV-Shae since she's usually very annoying (and very different than book-Shae), to be honest, but I find the decisions to be really bizarre. They DO have opportunities for meeting the boob quota straight from the book but instead they invent random scenes with Ros or Osha or whatever.
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garthmargengi
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 6:38 pm 
 

Indeed, I was hoping for more "my giant of Lannister", after all it all builds up for the later sequence of events in the books and it will feel like it's lackin' if that part is reached without delving further into the relationship between Tyrion and Shae.

On a side note, the actress that plays Shae is one of the few characters that doesn't look anything at all to what I imagined.
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Animicantus
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:09 pm
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:33 pm 
 

garthmargengi wrote:
Indeed, I was hoping for more "my giant of Lannister", after all it all builds up for the later sequence of events in the books and it will feel like it's lackin' if that part is reached without delving further into the relationship between Tyrion and Shae.

On a side note, the actress that plays Shae is one of the few characters that doesn't look anything at all to what I imagined.


I agree. She's not as attractive as she should be. They shoulda picked a bustier actress.
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It also sounds like he says "The raven licks my asshole" as the first vocal line there. It never fails to crack me up.

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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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Location: Québec
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:39 pm 
 

Bustier =/= attractive. Anyway, Shae wasn't busty in the books iirc. Sibel Kekilli was a porn actress back in the day for those who are interested.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:55 pm 
 

Animicantus wrote:
I agree. She's not as attractive as she should be. They shoulda picked a bustier actress.

Uh, ok about the attractiveness, since it's subjective, but Shae was not busty, she's specifically described as petite with small breasts... :durr:
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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KC_Slaanesh
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:51 pm
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Location: Lenexa, Kansas
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:59 am 
 

Well if we're dwelling on book-to-film discrepancies, females are always bustier on film. It's what people want to see, and I don't remember any character being ruined by her breasts being too large. It's actually kind of endearing if they appear too large... But back on topic, Shae is cute, boobs could be bigger.

Also where the show is at right now the best scenes are with Arya, the last couple episodes that's the highlight of the show for me is her with Tywin and Jaqen. I'm hoping for a really spectacular battle for the season finale but I bet that is not what's coming, likely just more people discussing a battle in a room after it's already happened.

Spoiler: show
"Boy that sure was quite a battle for King's Landing we just had! Let's list how many people were killed and talk about what we did instead of showing it."
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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:33 am 
 

No. The title of episode 9 is "Blackwater" and is written by GRRM himself. They put most of the budget into that episode, guess why. It won't be a LotR/Kingdom of Heaven/etc. budget-type battle, but it won't be a S1 Whispering Woods either...
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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somefella
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
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Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:01 am 
 

Hope episode 9 makes up for a completely lacklustre season so far. Though I guess readers with as vivid an imagination as myself will likely be disappointed by it's scale, given the colossal massacre I imagined while reading about the Blackwater battle.

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KC_Slaanesh
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:17 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
but it won't be a S1 Whispering Woods either...

Good, that's mainly what I was worried about. A week form Sunday then!
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lord_ghengis
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 4:46 am 
 

Well I've finally seen the infamous episode 6 which offended so many book fans, and it's weird to say that it's my favourite episode of the season quite easily. Although the fact that three of the episodes so far have been really messy/boring (1-2-5) that isn't saying a whole lot. I have no issues with the dragon theft, and while I would agree that Qarth doesn't seem like a magical place from what it's been shown (It has been witnessed in only what, 4 brief scenes?), I quite enjoyed the scene with the fat council of 13 member which drew attention to Dany's being a self entitled pain in the ass. Nor did I have any issue with the "false tension" of the scene with littlefinger, Tywin and Arya which that Westeros.org site complained about, which is a site which I usually really enjoy, but I feel that the information she personally gained from being there was more than enough justification for her making her more than a gimmick.
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GTog
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 12:19 pm 
 

I have found Season 2 to be a bit too jumpy. I don't think that anyone not familiar with the books has any real hope of keeping track of what the hell's going on. Aside from that, there's a couple of serious plot deviations that I don't quite get:

Spoiler: show
1. Stolen dragons. Never happened in the books. Is it just a plot device to get Daenerys into the House of the Undying so she can burn it down?

2. Robb Stark & the nurse. Maybe this way it seems like Robb's being a little less of a politically naive child when he ruins the Frey alliance, but in the books it was important that he was a politically naive child. It's why he loses, and specifically why he loses to Tywin Lannister.

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Animicantus
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Location: Philadelphia, PA, United States of America
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:13 pm 
 

I liked episode 7, though it was very jumpy, and didn't really accomplish much plot wise. My biggest fear right now is they're going to write out weasel soup, but the title of episode 10 is giving me hope.
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It also sounds like he says "The raven licks my asshole" as the first vocal line there. It never fails to crack me up.

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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:01 am 
 

I take back what I said previously, episode 8 is the worst one so far. At least stuff happened in episode 6...
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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HellBlazer
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:38 am 
 

Animicantus wrote:
My biggest fear right now is they're going to write out weasel soup, but the title of episode 10 is giving me hope.


Nope, wrote it out. As well as ruined the great scene between Catelyn and Robb when they confront each other about their questionable actions. And it doesn't really seem like we'll see Tyrion's chain uh? :nono:

But hey, at least we got Talissa's back story right? Right? :oh shit:

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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:29 am 
 

I suppose this episode was fairly uneventful because they wanted to clear away all those little things that happen leading up to the Blackwater, like the calm before the storm, I suppose. I can see how it would help the flow of the next episode to have nothing but the action-packed climax, as it were, but it remains to be seen if they'll do that properly anyways.

At least we got to see Rattleshirt.
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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:41 am 
 

GRRM is writing the next episode. But if* it's mostly battle scenes and no dialogue or plot moving forward, well... can't have the author meddling in D&D's fanfiction, I suppose?


* While I'm eager to see the battle, I really hope I'm wrong on this regard.
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:47 am 
 

I doubt it'll be pure battle scenes and stuff, but it's sort of where the series looks to be going to climax. I imagine we'll see the Blackwater, the House of the Undying and the Jon/Halfhand thing, all of which are set up in the episode we just saw.
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swayze
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:44 am 
 

Enjoyed the last episode for what it was, but am starting to feel like Season 2 is a bit like Dragonball Z... Sometimes it feels like only 5min of stuff really happens over the course of an hour, and it's just building up to this huge shit that's gonna pop off at the end. I'm still entertained... How many more episodes are there?

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garthmargengi
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Posts: 475
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:13 pm 
 

I was getting worried already, fourty minutes and no boobs, but I knew D&D wouldn't fail me!

Asides from that, I enjoyed the episode, nothing exceptional happened but it was entertaining, can't wait until next week.

For the ones who already read the books,
Spoiler: show
weird there's been no mention of a chain yet, ain't it?
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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:15 pm 
 

Probably not gonna be seeing it at all, garth my man.
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garthmargengi
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:20 pm 
 

Aw man, but 'twas one of the best parts in the book, I still hold a small hope that they'll somehow rush it in the beginning* of the next episode or present it as something planned in secret though I know it won't happen.

*I always have to google how this damn word is written, I just can't remember it
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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:49 pm 
 

Wow, this last ep was exactly like those annoying DBZ episodes when Namekkusei was about to explode, where nothing happened besides the characters looking to each other.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:30 pm 
 

It'd actually be dumb to bring up the chain now. Stannis is a few hours away from King's Landing, they have no time to forge it.
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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sourlows
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 6:12 am
Posts: 209
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:21 pm 
 

i dislike how they changed the story so that arya did not trick the guard at the gates of harrenhal and kill him, nor will she be able to kill the tickler in s3/s4 since this season she had jaqen kill him. i felt the tickler's death in storm of swords was an important part of her character development too... shame they ruined it though i suppose they could substitute someone else.

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Razakel
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:36 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:30 pm 
 

Well I'm still loving this season. I got pretty drunk with my friends while watching last night's episode, so the second half is pretty blurry, but I'm really looking forward to seeing how all of these things unfold. Good Jamie scenes.

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ralfikk123
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:06 pm 
 

Catelyn's character really pisses me off!
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Mysticaloldbard
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Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:10 pm
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:10 pm 
 

So glad we're seeing Jaime again, a lot of these scenes are rather dull or far-fetched, and his scenes along with Tyrion's keep me sated.

God, you know, I thought the first season was perfect; before it came time to watch it, though, I was jittery about the turn out. And it absolutely delivered--it was phenomenal, left me a little mystified after each episode. At the end of each I was clawing away at the time in my mind til the next one came on. I let my guard down for the second season though, and it's been thus far (while entertaining) a disappointment, certainly when compared to the previous season. It's so all over the place and the scenes just aren't as real or gripping as they were before. I'm even letting the week pass forgetting it's on Sunday night... A real pity. I really hope for season 3 to pick season 1's glowing torch back up and that season 2's a rickety bridge in between them. At any rate, the series as a whole will never be a perfect set with the second season as capricious as it is. Upsetting. And I bought Game of Thrones on DVD as well, but I'm not sure I want to add the second season to the shelf! The completionist is warring within me.
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Under_Starmere
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:34 pm 
 

Ahh, just wait until you can buy it at some store for like $10.

Anyway, Season 2 kinda blows so far. I'm still sticking with the show because season 1 was fucking awesome and I'm hoping it gets through this rough patch and into more wonderfulness.

Was the second book this dull?

At least this last episode had a lot more Tyrion. His dialogue with Varys toward the end, out on the battlement, was (sixteen) tits.

Oh, and the wildlings are kind of annoying. In fact there are a lot of annoying characters in this season.
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Messiah_X
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:20 pm 
 

This episode was disappointing to me as well. No chain, which is pretty annoying, and would have been easy to introduce in this episode regardless of any time frame to actually build it (instead of "pig shit" for example). Oh well, hopefully we'll get something else to show Tyrion as the hero of the King's Landing battle.

No weasel soup. Ok, it was fun in the book, probably would have been fun on screen too, but with all the changes (ie: Harrenhal still being a Lannister base of operations. Roose Bolton really needs to get his ass over there), I'm not sure it would have worked the same. Still, Jaqen's master plan was to simply kill the two guards at the front gate so Arya could just walk out? I actually like TV Jaqen, but they have really taken his big moments away from him. Here's to hoping they don't fuck up his big reveal later on.

Didn't like the way they rewrote Catelyn's scene, but I guess it works in the show's context. Not sure how they'll handle the Riverrun ships chasing Jaime and Brienne (because theres no Riverrun), but whatever, they'll think of something. I do have to say, I enjoyed the banter between Jaime and Brienne. This went exactly the way I imagined in the book, and they got that bitter chemistry between them perfect. I can't say the same about the Robb and Talissa/Jeyne chemistry. The whole thing felt forced and unrealistic. The story was kind of useless, and while somewhat compelling, I can't imagine how it would spark instant attraction in Robb. Is it because Robb hates slavery? I think both actors are competent, and they could have built it up a bit more, showed them actually flirting together, ANYTHING to make it seem like less of a last-minute-tagged-on-love-interest plot. Really just not feeling the
Spoiler: show
"love that was worth losing a kingdom over"


I've been enjoying the Theon arc in the show, and I'm sure they'll do something with Ramsay by the end, but this is also something that will lose the impact it had in the book. Pretty sure he'll just ride in, no big reveal. Maybe Dagmer will take on some hybrid role of "Reek" + Big/Little Walder or something.

Completely useless Daenerys scene. Basically an excuse to give her screen time. I guess they can rush her through the House of the Undying and onto the ship to Astapor in the next 2 episodes.

I actually like where they're going with the Jon Snow arc. Its not a bad change, I think we'll get a good adaptation of the Quorin scene. Also, it makes Ygritte more of a character. I actually kind of enjoy TV Ygritte more than book Ygritte to be honest, and the Lord of Bones/Rattleshirt was perfect. Always imagined his voice to be more raspy, but now we're nitpicking. I also like how they caught up to including that minor detail of finding the horn and the obsidian daggers. Probably the best part of the episode.

I also enjoyed the very minor but important (well to me and other avid readers) scene where Varys tells Tyrion about Daenerys being alive in Qarth. Conleth Hill is one of my favorite actors on the show, because he has absolutely NAILED Varys, even when they give him lines and scenes outside of the book.
Spoiler: show
Did anyone notice that subtle glow of excitement, the slight smile and the way his eyes lit up talking about Daenerys and the dragons? Won't talk too much about Book 5, but I found it to be a brilliant, subtle addition for those who have read the books and have an idea of what he's really all about

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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:00 am 
 

sourlows wrote:
i dislike how they changed the story so that arya did not trick the guard at the gates of harrenhal and kill him, nor will she be able to kill the tickler in s3/s4 since this season she had jaqen kill him. i felt the tickler's death in storm of swords was an important part of her character development too... shame they ruined it though i suppose they could substitute someone else.

They'll probably use Polliver instead, since he's still got Needle.
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