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ScratchMyBack
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:04 am
Posts: 1077
Location: Malaysia
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:32 pm 
 

There used to be distinction of Hardcore, Punk, Metal or any other "extreme" music. However after crossover, grindcore and the ilk, the lines starts to blur and both subcultures started attending each other's shows. What also I have observed is the small numbers of people entering these subcultures through earlier bands that are less extreme. For example, there are getting less and less number of young kids going into metal through Black Sabbath but are more likely to enter metal through neo-thrash or crossover and quickly make the jump to Death Metal or Grindcore. The same also seems to be happening to Punk where Pop Punk seems to be more and more detached from the rest of Punk Rock. In fact, you barely hear Punk Rock on the radio anymore.

From those observation, I have a feeling that Metal,Hardcore or Punk subculture would detach themselves from their roots completely and end up amalgated into one single subculture of "extreme music." I'm not so sure if it's a good or not but it seem the easier way classify this kind of music in the future, considering the fan base seems to be overlapping. Even influences from each side start to creep into each other. Crust Punks have Death Metal and Black Metal influences, Black Metal uses a lot of Punk influence and even Death Metal bands that practically sound closer to D-Beat than Obituary or Death.

So what is your opinion on this? Do you think this amalgation would actually happen at one point, or the subcultures would forever be distinct and remain as a blip like Public Enemy's collab with Anthrax? If it does, do you think it is positive?

Anyway, the band that made me though of this was Oathbreaker. They just seem to be "extreme music" and unclassifiable. Also the fact that metalheads seem to be proud wearing patches of crusties, hardcore punk bands alongside their metal influences seems to be so common today.
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LeMiserable
Milhouse van Houten

Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:42 am
Posts: 337
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:58 am 
 

I can see more and more bands wandering off into the -core territory, actually it's been happening for a long time, -core is where the money is, not the quality sadly, and hardcore being mixed with everything has been happening for so long.

Hardcore with metal influences, isn't that just metalcore or deathcore?

I couldn't make up much more of what you said, sadly...
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ScratchMyBack
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:04 am
Posts: 1077
Location: Malaysia
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:09 am 
 

I'm not talking about Metalcore/Deathcore.

I'm talking more about the cross pollination of Sludge bands with Crust, Death Metal influences in D-Beat bands or even Blackened Thrash that start to include crossover influence. All of that in my opinion will start become common place and amalgated into one subculture as they have less and less in common with traditional heavy metal, subculture wise. It makes more sense for a Blackened Thrash band to be lumped with a Crust/Death Metal band rather than say, Black Sabbath.

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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
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Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:13 am 
 

Just because there's increasing overlap doesn't mean that the cultures will be truly amalgamated. There still are (and probably always will be) people in the hardcore/punk scene who don't really have anything to do with metal and don't want to, while likewise there are plenty of metal folks who don't really like punk/hardcore at all and shy away from metal bands influenced by those genres.
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DeathcoreDecimator
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:34 pm
Posts: 602
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:36 am 
 

I think that due to the internet/social media it is easier for a musician to be influenced by a wider variety of heavy music without actually having to make contact with the people involved in the scene. Whereas back in the day,I imagine personal contact and experience played a larger role in deciding whether or not one would take influence from another, and thus more cohesive genres/scenes. For example lots of popular hardcore bands are taking influence from OSDM bands, especially Obituary. Following from this, tons of hardcore kids are getting into Obituary. My guess is that if a typical modern hardcore kid were to go to a "true" death metal show they would think it were a joke. The same way an old school metalhead would go to a Xibalba show today and be like "what the fuck is this". The internet acts to erase this cultural barrier. However, because these prejudices still exist with the internet, I don't think there will ever be a true amalgamation of extreme metal genres/scenes.

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CF_Mono
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:21 pm
Posts: 1388
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:22 pm 
 

I was noticing this earlier myself, since bands that take a lot of both metal and hardcore influences are becoming really popular right now... (See: Trap Them, Converge, Nails, Rotten Sound, Full of Hell, Code Orange Kids, Bleak, KEN Mode, The Secret, Oathbreaker etc.. Shit, even newer Darkthrone.) This sound that sits safely on the borderline is making waves.

I don't think it's a bad thing at all, but it makes you aware of your metalhead elitism sometimes :P Bands I would have called "unmetal" a few years ago I would have just ignored. Now, I like a lot of hardcore inspired stuff, though I still make distinctions between metal and non-metal music, I can tolerate a lot of this newer wave stuff that can technically be classified as extreme metalcore. I almost think it's becoming so popular now that it almost begs its own sort of classification.
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tomcat_ha
Veteran

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 2637
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:30 pm 
 

I am definitely personally part of this trend thanks to the internet im now a big fan of Discharge, Minor Threat, Weekend Nachos and Coke Bust to name a couple.
A lot of metal and hardcore people are now going to the shows of the "other".
However crossover between metal and hardcore is not really new however in the past it seemed like it was something that happened more with musicians and bands and not really with the fans of either scene. I mean look at swedish death metal which always has been d-beat influenced like hell.

Also i have to mention that something like this happened in the past. Check out the bremen metalcore scene. A bunch of bands in germany in the 90s made some metalcore by lack of better term very comparable to what has been mentioned before. Bands like Systral, Acme and Morser.

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Exigence
Age: 28 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
Posts: 749
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:44 am 
 

It's more difficult these days because recording technology / equipment has gotten so much better, even for the lowest level. Anything distorted and heavy will sound the same. I have been listening to the new Madball "Hardcore Lives" but to me, it sounds like any typical modern thrash album. It's awesome but viewing it as 'metal' or 'core' would be completely in the eyes of the beholder.
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MutantClannfear
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 2176
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:43 pm 
 

ScratchMyBack wrote:
I'm not talking about Metalcore/Deathcore.

I'm talking more about the cross pollination of Sludge bands with Crust, Death Metal influences in D-Beat bands or even Blackened Thrash that start to include crossover influence. All of that in my opinion will start become common place and amalgated into one subculture as they have less and less in common with traditional heavy metal, subculture wise. It makes more sense for a Blackened Thrash band to be lumped with a Crust/Death Metal band rather than say, Black Sabbath.

Why are metalcore/deathcore exempt from your hypothesis? They're a metal + non-metal hybrid just like everything else you listed. They have to be taken into account as a counterexample if you want to discuss this.
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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 10167
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:54 pm 
 

Well, none of this is anything new to me. IN the 90s when I was getting into heavy music I noticed a lot of the older guys, especially those in bands, or who had their own radio shows, hailed just as much punk as they did metal. i resisted this myself for quite some time,wanting everything to be big and epic or just weird, but the older I got the more I started to embrace these sorts of crossover sounds from back then. I'm still not sure where modern metalcore/deathcore fits in and to be honest I just don't think about it much as it's basically completely off my radar, but I'm sure most of those bands are influenced by the stuff I occasionally heard other guys playing back then. I remember when In Flames and Earth Crisis toured together....at the time I thought that was kind of weird but looking back, nah, it was all pretty fitting.
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elf48687789
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:03 pm
Posts: 1622
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:53 pm 
 

I'm not sure I would classify that song in the video as anything other than black metal.

Punk influences have been around in metal since the late '70s, for example NWOBHM bands and Judas Priest, I really don't see it as that unusual. On the other hand back then you didn't have metal and punk bands play together too often, except for the occasional Motörhead + punk bands. Although I've seen hardcore bands play shows with metal bands a lot lately, even weird combinations with all types of metal bands: gothic, death metal or thrash bands (I don't mean combinations in one band's style, but those varying types of bands playing shows with hardcore bands).

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the_raytownian
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:09 am
Posts: 2151
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:12 am 
 

What rock have you been living under for the last 30 years?

Oathbreaker being "unclassifiable" (are they? I haven't heard them, and I'm not in the mood to turn off what I'm listening to for that video) doesn't mean there aren't still loads of bands playing distinct "old" styles of music in spite of it. It just means you aren't aware of very much going on around you.
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CF_Mono
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:21 pm
Posts: 1388
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:58 pm 
 

elf48687789 wrote:
I'm not sure I would classify that song in the video as anything other than black metal.

That's probably the most black metal part of the album though. (iirc)
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