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grauer_mausling
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:00 am
Posts: 1791
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:29 pm 
 

interesting read, indeed. And it sounds quite possible - at least the stuff about the negative things regarding ecological catastrophes (new deserts,
extinction of certain species etc.pp).
The "good" things in form of inventions and what not sound good but those could also just be a new form of
the "flying cars" we were supposed to have since the 80s.
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psyote
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 12:44 am
Posts: 131
Location: Philippines
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:57 am 
 

Thanks for the link. As for the predictions, I guess it took some careful researches on events and historical patterns to establish those predictions so the guys from that site are very reliable. Nice.
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gradymayhem
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:17 pm
Posts: 367
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:53 pm 
 

Very interesting, but very depressing. Nature dies and humans are replaced by cyborgs.
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psyote
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 12:44 am
Posts: 131
Location: Philippines
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:33 pm 
 

gradymayhem wrote:
Very interesting, but very depressing. Nature dies and humans are replaced by cyborgs.


I totally agree. Technology advances faster but the humans will seem to forget to live naturally and more simply. They will resurrect mammoths but the tigers and gorillas will disappear. AIDS will be curable and longevity will improve but human's health will deteriorate due to increasing stress levels. The very tragic irony of humanity.
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hunglikemouse
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:25 pm
Posts: 256
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:28 pm 
 

psyote wrote:
gradymayhem wrote:
Very interesting, but very depressing. Nature dies and humans are replaced by cyborgs.


I totally agree. Technology advances faster but the humans will seem to forget to live naturally and more simply. They will resurrect mammoths but the tigers and gorillas will disappear. AIDS will be curable and longevity will improve but human's health will deteriorate due to increasing stress levels. The very tragic irony of humanity.

And we shall resurrect tigers and gorillas as well. I don't find this depressing in the least. In fact I find the future full of wonder and amazement. Part of an amazing cycle that one day will expand into forever................beautiful ending if you ask me. Burn out AND fade away at the same time.

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psyote
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 12:44 am
Posts: 131
Location: Philippines
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:20 pm 
 

I found the approaching 2012 end-of-the-world shit dumb and bothering at the same time. While more people will be in panic, the media and even the creators of 2012 movie (which thankfully I never saw) are still laughing all their way to the bank. The worst part of that issue is that some people will use the situation to take advantage and make things more complicated.
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volutetheswarth
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:37 pm
Posts: 1481
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:55 pm 
 

Nanoscourge wrote:

Timeline says that we'll make contact with alien life at around 2280 AD.

*Looks at watch*

They'll probably be like Jakovasaurs. "Aw, we's in big doodoo now."

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Necessitarian
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:20 am
Posts: 152
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:36 pm 
 

I'll revive this as most of the future is still in the future and somewhat relevant. There's quite a bit of new stuff there now since the time it was first posted. I'm not quite sure if it's a bleak or uplifting future they're promising, but there's some interesting stuff to happen if we can give it any credence. We seem to be moving farther and farther from our emotionally driven world and into a world of knowledge and information and I certainly welcome such a change. Will our prevailing rationalism and physicalism entail the death of art in the long run, as we would no longer have any metaphysical needs to satisfy and would end up as machines, more or less?

Hopefully I'll one day get the chance to plug my mind into a computer or something and become immortal, acquire all the dreadful knowledge there is to acquire and the infinite wisdom that goes with it, to then unplug the computer and be done with this silly existence. Seems like as good an endpoint as there can be. The completion of evolution. Not sure how probable all this is of course as I'm a bit of a moron, but it seems to me to be the most exciting and profound idea possible.

Anyway, am I being a pessimist (though I don't really see it as a pessimistic vision, but you get what I mean) or does anybody see a bright and happy Utopia with a life worth living in all of this, long-term? All of this may sound new and exciting now, but what with all of our improved intellectual capabilities when we've become immortal robots, I don't think it can be reasonably expected for it to hold our interest for long. Will an increase in intelligence signify the end of human existence as we know it? I guess all of this is still in doubt and it might happen that we never get that far (nuclear war and all that, or maybe it's just not within reason) but I find such speculation to still be so much more stimulating than all these dull practical matters of our everyday lives.

It would be cool to extend this discussion to include what you see as being the endpoint in human history as the site doesn't seem to dare make any predictions on this. Sorry for the long-winded and rambling nature of this post.

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ClaymanOnFire
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:13 pm
Posts: 465
Location: Nice try, Big Brother
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:45 pm 
 

Hm, interesting. I wonder what their sources are. But my predictions of the future are far less optimistic. We may evolve, we may discover more, but I don't see humanity (or any posthuman races) progressing morally. I recently read George Orwell's 1984, and that book really gave form to my thoughts. I highly doubt we'll ever move beyond our hunger for power, so the system of a high, middle, and low class won't disappear.

Their view on religion seems a little biased though...I can easily see superstitions disappearing, but the questions of "why is this all here?" and "is there a purpose?" are outside the scope of scientific explanation.

On the other hand, the only criticisms I have with their ecological predictions is their projected rate of destruction. It could all happen much sooner.
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henkkjelle
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Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
Posts: 3223
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:38 pm 
 

ClaymanOnFire wrote:
Hm, interesting. I wonder what their sources are. But my predictions of the future are far less optimistic. We may evolve, we may discover more, but I don't see humanity (or any posthuman races) progressing morally. I recently read George Orwell's 1984, and that book really gave form to my thoughts. I highly doubt we'll ever move beyond our hunger for power, so the system of a high, middle, and low class won't disappear.

Their view on religion seems a little biased though...I can easily see superstitions disappearing, but the questions of "why is this all here?" and "is there a purpose?" are outside the scope of scientific explanation.

On the other hand, the only criticisms I have with their ecological predictions is their projected rate of destruction. It could all happen much sooner.


But just because there isn't a scientific explanation right now doesn't mean it is impossible for one to exist. Saying "we don't understand this yet so deity must have done it" is pretty ridiculous. We do have some theories about the origins of life though. Abiogenesis being the most famous one. There is still much to be discovered, but I'm confident that science will find the answer someday. And the purpose? To make babies!
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Necessitarian
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:20 am
Posts: 152
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:43 pm 
 

henkkjelle wrote:
And the purpose? To make babies!

I've always thought it was plastic, myself.

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Eh_Timeghoul
Be gentle, I was... Born This Way

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:35 pm
Posts: 321
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:13 pm 
 

interesting, but i personally find this timeline is too hopeful of humanity

or maybe i just have so little, who knows. some neat shit in there that would be cool to see.....railguns? sign me up! loved that shit in Red Faction (though the receiving end is really shitty if i remember ahah)

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ClaymanOnFire
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:13 pm
Posts: 465
Location: Nice try, Big Brother
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:46 pm 
 

henkkjelle wrote:
But just because there isn't a scientific explanation right now doesn't mean it is impossible for one to exist. Saying "we don't understand this yet so deity must have done it" is pretty ridiculous. We do have some theories about the origins of life though. Abiogenesis being the most famous one. There is still much to be discovered, but I'm confident that science will find the answer someday. And the purpose? To make babies!

Oh, that's not what I meant at all. It's questions like "is there a purpose" that are simply out of sciences scope. A question I don't think science even presumes to answer. As I see it, science is something that seeks to explain what something does and how, not if there is a reason behind it. I guess they did predict advancement in spirituality and philosophy, but would think certain religions could evolve in their practice to match this evolution.

By the way, I find the Big Bang, Abiogenesis, and the like completely plausible.

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henkkjelle
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:14 pm 
 

Why would it be out of the scientific scope? If you know what something does and how, and you know what it affects and what caused it to happen, why would you need to know it purpose. It's such a uninteresting and lame question to ask because it doesn't get you anywhere. Maybe you are talking about some kind of spiritual or godly purpose? If I remember correctly you are a christian. (please don't smite me if I'm wrong).

EDIT. I do actually think you can scientifically prove the purpose of something. It's pretty easy.
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Erosion of Humanity
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Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:12 pm
Posts: 2463
Location: Schaumburg, Il
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:54 pm 
 

henkkjelle wrote:
Why would it be out of the scientific scope? If you know what something does and how, and you know what it affects and what caused it to happen, why would you need to know it purpose. It's such a uninteresting and lame question to ask because it doesn't get you anywhere. Maybe you are talking about some kind of spiritual or godly purpose? If I remember correctly you are a christian. (please don't smite me if I'm wrong).

EDIT. I do actually think you can scientifically prove the purpose of something. It's pretty easy.


There's nothing wrong with searching for a purpose in life beyond how/why does something work and I for one don't think science can answer all of our questions. I believe that there are answers that can only be found in death and unless science is going to bring the dead back and ask them questions well then I guess we'll just have to wait. sorry if that wasn't along the lines of what you were saying. Also I find the most alarming things on this site to be the loss of Ecology in general, I love nature and think that we as a people (the whole world) should put more of an emphasis on saving the planet and its inhabitants.
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ClaymanOnFire
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:13 pm
Posts: 465
Location: Nice try, Big Brother
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:18 pm 
 

henkkjelle wrote:
Why would it be out of the scientific scope? If you know what something does and how, and you know what it affects and what caused it to happen, why would you need to know it purpose. It's such a uninteresting and lame question to ask because it doesn't get you anywhere. Maybe you are talking about some kind of spiritual or godly purpose? If I remember correctly you are a christian. (please don't smite me if I'm wrong).

EDIT. I do actually think you can scientifically prove the purpose of something. It's pretty easy.

Yes, I am a Christian. But one that would change his mind given sufficient counter-evidence (something I'm working on right now, actually). Anyway, yes, I was talking about a greater purpose, beyond simple cause and effect. And well...if you think that's a boring question then I guess there isn't much more to say. But I'm curious, how would you conclusively discover the purpose of something?
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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
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Location: 50 Forts Along the Rhine
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:45 pm 
 

Counter-evidence against a metaphysical entity?
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henkkjelle
Veteran

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:48 pm 
 

The purpose of something is what that certain something helps to achieve. Maybe you can't really find out the purpose of something before that certain something has completed it's purpose because there are a lot of different purposes... But we do know the purpose of A LOT of things. Our cells, our hearts, our lungs, etc etc. Or the different kind of tools we invented ourselves. I would say the ultimate purpose of a single organism is to try and ensure the survival of their species. You may notice that the purpose of things doesn't really differ from the function of things. And I don't think they really differ anyway.

Your personal purpose in life is ofcourse a completely different story. I can only say that you have to find your own purpose. But please, base those purposes on what has been proven to be true. I know it sounds kinda cold, but I really don't like it when people talk about some greater purpose. :/ Oh, and before you expect evidence against Christanity, (or any other religion for that matter) please notice the absolute lack of evidence that Christianity has put out for itself. The believe in a god is something completely faith based, and if that's enough for someone why not believe in Vishnu? I know it's the oldest thing in the book, but the burden of proof lies with you guys. : )

EDIT, yeah, what inhumanist said. :-P
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ClaymanOnFire
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:13 pm
Posts: 465
Location: Nice try, Big Brother
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:11 pm 
 

henkkjelle wrote:
The purpose of something is what that certain something helps to achieve. Maybe you can't really find out the purpose of something before that certain something has completed it's purpose because there are a lot of different purposes... But we do know the purpose of A LOT of things. Our cells, our hearts, our lungs, etc etc. Or the different kind of tools we invented ourselves. I would say the ultimate purpose of a single organism is to try and ensure the survival of their species. You may notice that the purpose of things doesn't really differ from the function of things. And I don't think they really differ anyway.

I see what you mean, but again, that's not really what I was talking about. This isn't really the thread for a debate on Christianity though, and I get the feeling you wouldn't care to hear it anyway :lol: But hey, I haven't had such a civil discussion on religion for a while, thanks for not just calling me an ignorant 'tard from the start :-P

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henkkjelle
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Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:26 pm 
 

I would care to hear it, actually. But you are right, this is not the place to discuss Christianity. You seem to be a pretty open minded Christian though, and I like that.

To get back to the topic of this thread. I do actually think that religion will die down in the future. Organized religion, that is. The believe in "something greater" will probably remain with humanity forever. I also predict a rise of the more modern forms of buddhism. While I do think that a significant amount of people will drop the god thing, the need for spirituality will remain. Modern buddhism is harmless, so I'm fine with that. *thinks of a far away future where a fanatical splinter buddhism group threatens world peace*
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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:13 am 
 

This is an interesting read, but I have a feeling people will be looking back on this stuff in the same way we laugh at all the stuff 50s folks predicted we'd have by 2000AD (Where's my jetpack, personal robot assistant and moonbase holiday home?)
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Necessitarian
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:20 am
Posts: 152
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:41 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
This is an interesting read, but I have a feeling people will be looking back on this stuff in the same way we laugh at all the stuff 50s folks predicted we'd have by 2000AD (Where's my jetpack, personal robot assistant and moonbase holiday home?)

This is probably true, but I think that it works the other way too; there will be a buncha stuff that is not seriously predicted atm. I bet our ability to make accurate predictions has increased a lot in the meantime as well. Maybe the specific predictions aren't all on the money but it's probably likelier that things are going to change a whole lot rather than achieve some kind of a stability and stay the same. It's probably also true that the world of today will be more similar to the world of 2000 years ago than to the world of 2000 years in the future.

But let's get to some eschatology! Has mankind already had most of its fun? It's hard to see another 100000 or more years for us in all of this, especially if we will already by the end of this century lose our place as the dominant lifeform on our planet to transhumans, if the predictions hold water. "Though lacking the raw emotions and subtle traits of organic human minds, the sheer depth and power of AI begins to profoundly transform the course of history." What would such a thing mean? Wouldn't it in the long term entail the loss of the instinct for self-preservation, as our irrational fear of death decreases? Isn't our curiosity also linked with our irrationality and emotionality? If these things go, wouldn't the desire to live follow as well?

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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4629
Location: 50 Forts Along the Rhine
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:12 am 
 

^ Natural selection will take care of it.
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marktheviktor
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:41 am
Posts: 6904
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:37 pm 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
This is an interesting read, but I have a feeling people will be looking back on this stuff in the same way we laugh at all the stuff 50s folks predicted we'd have by 2000AD (Where's my jetpack, personal robot assistant and moonbase holiday home?)


Probably. The thing is, it's not so much about the predictions themselves that interest me but more about them being a commentary or reflection on the present. The 1950's were more or less a time of great innovation, consumerist growth and wonder concerning newfangled technology for the every family and one that particularly emphasized the burgeoning Space Age. We've come a good ways as far as space travel but still nowhere near what would have been thought back then i.e. interplanetary travel. Those futurists could not have taken into account or they underestimated things like stagnation in Bloc countries and the political strife that would occur in the Middle East that led to oil crisis/gas shortages that shaped some outcomes. And much of that web page of topic reflects the cynicism of today, much of it tied to our dire economic situation meshed with an expectant growth in micro technology. The 50's futurists were too optimistic and these guys are too pessimistic. I'm sure they aren't completely off base with those prognostications but there is always those unforeseen X-factors; namely politics and human stupidity (two things that may not be mutually exclusive).

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