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Fortifiv3
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:00 am
Posts: 229
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:47 pm 
 

BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
chronolith wrote:

I'm saying that its the FDA's fault for approving MSG as a healthy food additive which is in McDonalds food, making him addicted.


MSG isn't addictive. Your friend's Dad is just fat and has no willpower. God bless American culture of blaming all your life's problems on someone or something else.

Oh, and if McDonalds is addictive, the Illuminati Jews didn't do a very good job... most people regularly tell me McDonalds tastes shit.



Thank you. I've been trying to make this point for a while. Things like salt, sugar, and MSG aren't addictive in the same way that alcohol and nicotine are. That is actual substance addiction. Dare I say that salt, sugar, and MSG (and fast food in general) is not actually addictive at all? People can still get addicted to things that aren't actually addictive.

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chronolith
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Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:36 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:10 pm 
 

There are food additives that make people more hungry, more obese, and more prone to disease. High fructose corn syrup being another one. To anyone who disagrees I'd recommend "Natural Cures" by Kevin Trudeau, which goes over just what type of food additives are used and how lobbyists bribe congressman to allow the usage of these chemicals, and even hide them (theres over 15,000 chemicals they don't even have to tell us about!) and also goes over the the addition of fluoride and chlorine in our tap water which practically makes you dumb (http://www.theresistance.info/Fluoride/ ... rt_1.html_)
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Apteronotus
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Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:07 am
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:26 pm 
 

For the benefit of people who are not exposed to American television, Trudeau is that guy on the infomercials with no medical training telling people that AIDs is a hoax, sunscreen (bun not ultraviolet radiation) causes cancer, and that diseases are not caused by viruses and bacteria but by "vital imbalance." He has numerous lawsuits against him from myriad groups, including the New York Consumer Protection Board.
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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:38 pm 
 

He also did jail time, and he's a total fraud, and anyone recommending Kevin Trudeau is so deep down the rabbit hole that they might as well listen to advice from David Icke.
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chronolith
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:29 pm 
 

Ha wow, i didn't know his shit was that big of a hoax. I picked up the book at a garage sale the other day, I didn't get too far into it, but it seemed legit. I don't watch TV so i never heard of the guy. I guess i'll have to look more into it.
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AstralCorpse
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Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:07 pm
Posts: 73
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:07 am 
 

Expedience wrote:
nekuomanteia wrote:
I think I read somewhere that doing that, especially habitually, would only make your body go into survival mode thus store fat it needs for those periods where you go without eating, resulting in you actually gaining weight rather than losing;


Where are you getting your energy from? And the fat? You can't store fat you've already stored. You need a certain amount of energy each day, and if you're not getting it from food than you're getting it from your own fat and muscle. When that runs out you die but by then you'd be a skeleton.


I think the idea is that if you fast for extended periods, your metabolism will slow significantly to survive on a reduced diet. So, you might lose weight in the short term, but once you return to a semi-regular level of food intake you will quickly put weight back on. Either way, fasting is not the healthiest way to do things.

The thing about eating healthy is that it's not actually all that much more expensive than eating junk food. When I go to the store I buy vegetables like potatoes, onions, corn, peas, broccoli (all cheap) and for fruit, which is generally more expensive, I buy bananas, melons, and frozen berries for smoothies. I limit my intake of red meat to 1-2 times a week, and I eat chicken, pork, or turkey on the other days. Nuts, yoghurt, and whole grain bread I usually pick up too. Eating like this, I can spend 40$ at the grocery store and feed myself for 3-4 days, not bad at all considering my very large appetite. One thing that I have improved a lot on over the years is drinking at least a couple of glasses of cold water a day, since doing this I definitely find it easier to eat a little less (and I drink less shit like pop or sugary juices).

I know people who exercise a lot (like 4-5 hours a day) who feel like they can eat whatever they want (high fat intake, lots of red meat), but long term I doubt whether this will work out for them. Most people can't keep up a strenuous exercise routine throughout their lives, and once a 9 to 5 and kids come into the picture, the weight comes on. One of my uncles was a former track star, but now he is pushing 280 ibs because he still eats the same way he did when he was 25. Getting in the habit of eating healthy while you're young is key, and will pay dividends to your health and happiness down the road.

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Asha_
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Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:21 am
Posts: 148
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:08 am 
 

So, does pretty much all Chinese food have MSG in it? If not, are there typically foods that don't contain it? I'm sure I knew about MSG in Chinese food before, but it seems I sorta pushed it back (I'm quite worrisome, though, which makes that unusual for me).

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slayerhatesusall
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:45 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:53 am 
 

Asha_ wrote:
So, does pretty much all Chinese food have MSG in it? If not, are there typically foods that don't contain it? I'm sure I knew about MSG in Chinese food before, but it seems I sorta pushed it back (I'm quite worrisome, though, which makes that unusual for me).

Chinese restaurants usually load the food up with msg, better off just buying the ingredients at the store and making yourself a nice homemade chinese dinner instead. Anyway anytime I eat a good sized amount of msg or trans fat I feel really weird, like my body is telling me not to put them in my body again. Msg gives me headaches and transfats can make my chest feel really weird like my veins are pulsing. They should be okay in small amounts though just don't overdo em.
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swayze
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:10 pm
Posts: 306
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:00 am 
 

Fortifiv3 wrote:
Thank you. I've been trying to make this point for a while. Things like salt, sugar, and MSG aren't addictive in the same way that alcohol and nicotine are. That is actual substance addiction. Dare I say that salt, sugar, and MSG (and fast food in general) is not actually addictive at all? People can still get addicted to things that aren't actually addictive.


Actually, sugar is addictive. Salt and MSG aren't though. But sugar is unquestionably an extremely addictive substance, both physiologically and psychologically.

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Napero
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Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:16 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:53 am 
 

kingnuuuur wrote:
Aren't you talking about foraging rather than diet? I think you're referring to organic food, which is more or less the same as the crickets you half-nakedly chase after to put in your cabbage taco with greenbeans, dried peppers, cumin, coriander, and coconut milk seasoning.

I'm talking about the way evolution made us to eat. In that taco of yours, the taco shell itself and the beans are not really what we are supposed to eat, because they are, in the long run, inedible without cooking. Man was originally built to forage, not to eat grains, MSG or beans.

Organic is nice, and I think most organic stuff tastes better, especially meat. But that is not my point. My point is that without the modern technology, including the fine invention called fire, we would not be able to aquire or even eat many of the things we shove into ourselves in the modern world. Those things improve our survivability as a species, because the world would not be able to feed us all without grains, for example, but that does not mean we were originally meant to eat them. In essence, they are mankind's ad-hoc method of postponing a mildly inconvenient but unavoidable Mathusian indicent that way overdue already.

kingnuuuur wrote:
But hey, you've got another natural thing going if you want to eat random mushrooms. Natural selection that is.

Yeah. But if you're hungry enough, you'll take the chance. And there's a learning curve. Natural selection indeed teaches people to eat the healthy stuff. A friend of mine often tells me that whenever I eat mushrooms, I should raise a toast to the memory of the unknown culinary expert that tried the other mushroom...

I actually picked some chantarelles the other day. I found a few spots where something had eaten the caps off the mushrooms, so a deer or an elk had been there. They know what to eat, so why wouldn't a human being know that in his/her natural environment. Which is naked in an African forest. Squatting and munching on maggots, bugs and millipedes, not sugar, starch and MSG.

BTW, to those claiming that sugar is a part of a natural human diet because honey has been around since ancient time: I will believe you once you get that honey from a beehive without fire and completely naked... AND after you offer to do it again.
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Expedience
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Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:22 am
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:05 am 
 

And if you omit sugar and starch it's actually pretty difficult to get fat. Try gorging yourself on meat and fatty foods to an amount siginificantly over your calorie intake for a day - it can't be done, you'll vomit your guts up. Fat has a bloating effect in the stomach and small intestine. Yet you can vastly overindulge on much bread, grains and cereal because it doesn't make you feel as full.

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Byrain
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Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:45 pm
Posts: 1224
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:11 am 
 

Napero wrote:
kingnuuuur wrote:
But hey, you've got another natural thing going if you want to eat random mushrooms. Natural selection that is.

Yeah. But if you're hungry enough, you'll take the chance. And there's a learning curve. Natural selection indeed teaches people to eat the healthy stuff. A friend of mine often tells me that whenever I eat mushrooms, I should raise a toast to the memory of the unknown culinary expert that tried the other mushroom...

I actually picked some chantarelles the other day. I found a few spots where something had eaten the caps off the mushrooms, so a deer or an elk had been there. They know what to eat, so why wouldn't a human being know that in his/her natural environment. Which is naked in an African forest. Squatting and munching on maggots, bugs and millipedes, not sugar, starch and MSG.

BTW, to those claiming that sugar is a part of a natural human diet because honey has been around since ancient time: I will believe you once you get that honey from a beehive without fire and completely naked... AND after you offer to do it again.


A bit off topic, but plenty of things can eat mushrooms humans shouldn't eat. Its not uncommon to find death caps (In my area Amanita phalloides) with parts of it munched on. On the reverse, not much goes after the chanterelles here except humans.

Also, mushrooms suck as natural selection, they kill idiots inconsistently and rarely. Even when they get their mushroom identified as a deadly mushroom and then eat it...

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mindshadow
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:36 am
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:04 am 
 

Lannerd wrote:

That said, you can't undo millions of years of evolution in the 50 or so years there's been more than plentiful amounts of food in some countries (such as the US). Therefore, obesity rates are skyrocketing because (shocker) people like to eat food they find tastes good, we're biologically programmed to think those fries and big mac are delicious, AND (this is the big one), very few people are getting adequate amounts of exercise.



I wonder if there's link between obesity rates and when prescription drugs became readily available to all?
Every medicine has negative side effects and affect people in slightly different ways. People can be on medication for years only to develop another condition, sometimes ironically worse, than the original complaint. I don't believe all medicine is tested for long term effects sufficiently and there have been some high profile cases a while ago where some medication caused a few suicides and many others stated they felt very apathetic while taking their treatment.

Someone has a weight problem (their lonely and "comfort eat", inactive in their job and an endomorphic body type) gets depressed, is given medication which then over time causes their body to behave differently?
So who knows how (modern?) medicines can alter or interfere with a persons natural ability to combat weight?
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Terri23
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Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:53 am
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:11 am 
 

mindshadow wrote:
Lannerd wrote:

That said, you can't undo millions of years of evolution in the 50 or so years there's been more than plentiful amounts of food in some countries (such as the US). Therefore, obesity rates are skyrocketing because (shocker) people like to eat food they find tastes good, we're biologically programmed to think those fries and big mac are delicious, AND (this is the big one), very few people are getting adequate amounts of exercise.



I wonder if there's link between obesity rates and when prescription drugs became readily available to all?
Every medicine has negative side effects and affect people in slightly different ways. People can be on medication for years only to develop another condition, sometimes ironically worse, than the original complaint. I don't believe all medicine is tested for long term effects sufficiently and there have been some high profile cases a while ago where some medication caused a few suicides and many others stated they felt very apathetic while taking their treatment.

So who knows how (modern?) medicines can alter or interfere with a persons natural ability to combat weight?


This is actually well understood by chemists and doctors. Keep in mind that pharmaceutical companies have a legal obligation to make sure their products are safe for prescription. Therefore, they are run under a myriad of tests before being released to the general population, so you can be very sure that the product won't cause any problems, and if there is a chance it will cause a problem, you will be informed before you agree to take the product on yourself.
Its people that don't understand drugs, that create false statements, and conspiracy theories. One of the worst right now is Jen McCarthy and her ongoing crusade to ban immunisation from children, because she believes they cause autism.
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MacMoney
Man of the Cloth

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 10:17 pm
Posts: 1933
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:35 am 
 

Napero wrote:
BTW, to those claiming that sugar is a part of a natural human diet because honey has been around since ancient time: I will believe you once you get that honey from a beehive without fire and completely naked... AND after you offer to do it again.


Well, there is fruits and berries... Of course, there isn't nearly as much sugar in them as there is in chocolate bars or sweet pastries or cookies or cake, but there's sugar.

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Byrain
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:45 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:40 am 
 

MacMoney wrote:
Napero wrote:
BTW, to those claiming that sugar is a part of a natural human diet because honey has been around since ancient time: I will believe you once you get that honey from a beehive without fire and completely naked... AND after you offer to do it again.


Well, there is fruits and berries... Of course, there isn't nearly as much sugar in them as there is in chocolate bars or sweet pastries or cookies or cake, but there's sugar.


Those are different kinds of sugars...

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Napero
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:15 am 
 

Terri23 wrote:
Its people that don't understand drugs, that create false statements, and conspiracy theories. One of the worst right now is Jen McCarthy and her ongoing crusade to ban immunisation from children, because she believes they cause autism.

That autism-vaccination "controversy" is perhaps the most enraging issue I have with religious pseudo-science and political correctness nowadays. While the ID and creation bullshit is fundamental crap, the anti-vaccination lobby is doing grave damage to the world as we speak. Without that hippie crap, polio would be gone already. Dead. Extinct. But no, some fucking hippies in Europe and various under-bribed warlords in league with religious leaders in the Horn of Africa and thereabouts had to torpedo the vaccination programs back in the day, and keep the god-created and useful bug alive.

If Mrs McCarthy has trouble accepting the fact that she has indeed given birth to an autistic child, it's still no reason for directly causing thousands upon thousands of maimed and dead lives all over the world.
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BaloroftheEvilEye
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:51 am 
 

I've said it earlier on, but it's part of a larger problem growing in America. That is to say, the complete disdain for responsibility and the utter drive to push the blame on someone or something else.

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Apteronotus
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Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:07 am
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:53 am 
 

Napero wrote:
Terri23 wrote:
Its people that don't understand drugs, that create false statements, and conspiracy theories. One of the worst right now is Jen McCarthy and her ongoing crusade to ban immunisation from children, because she believes they cause autism.

That autism-vaccination "controversy" is perhaps the most enraging issue I have with religious pseudo-science and political correctness nowadays. While the ID and creation bullshit is fundamental crap, the anti-vaccination lobby is doing grave damage to the world as we speak. Without that hippie crap, polio would be gone already. Dead. Extinct. But no, some fucking hippies in Europe and various under-bribed warlords in league with religious leaders in the Horn of Africa and thereabouts had to torpedo the vaccination programs back in the day, and keep the god-created and useful bug alive.

If Mrs McCarthy has trouble accepting the fact that she has indeed given birth to an autistic child, it's still no reason for directly causing thousands upon thousands of maimed and dead lives all over the world.


Michelle Bachmann, one of the Republican candidates for the US presidency, said that the HPV vaccine was dangerous during a recent debate. Such a comment from a person respected by so many could, in an attenuated way, cause serious suffering and deaths in the future. I do not really know how common this kind of idiocy is outside of the US though.
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PhilosophicalFrog
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:58 am 
 

Byrain wrote:

Those are different kinds of sugars...


I know they are different, but I heard, for all intents and purposes, that the effects aren't different. Unless the sugar in candies in entirely artificial, I can't see a real difference between that and sugar in let's say, peaches.
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Byrain
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:06 pm 
 

PhilosophicalFrog wrote:
Byrain wrote:

Those are different kinds of sugars...


I know they are different, but I heard, for all intents and purposes, that the effects aren't different. Unless the sugar in candies in entirely artificial, I can't see a real difference between that and sugar in let's say, peaches.


The way your body uses the multiple kinds of sugars is different though, fruit sugars are simple and easy for your body to use, but I know the bare minimum about sugars so please don't rely on me to elaborate much.

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PhilosophicalFrog
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:20 pm 
 

Oh, fair enough, I've just heard so much crap about sugars and I feel as if I KNOW NOTHING!
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swayze
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:10 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:23 pm 
 

PhilosophicalFrog wrote:
Byrain wrote:

Those are different kinds of sugars...


I know they are different, but I heard, for all intents and purposes, that the effects aren't different. Unless the sugar in candies in entirely artificial, I can't see a real difference between that and sugar in let's say, peaches.


Nah, two things. One, there are chemical differences between the fructose in the peaches and the sucrose in the candies (fructose is a monosaccharide and sucrose is a disaccharide). Your body has to use an enzyme to break sucrose down into fructose and glucose. In other words, sugar from fruits is immediately available for use in the cells, but sugar from candies has to be digested a bunch first. Two, more importantly, the candy is calorie-dense and nutrient-sparse. The peach is calorie-sparse and nutrient-dense. So, in other words, while they do both have sugars in them, the fruit sugar is simple for our bodies to utilize and comes alongside a bunch of vitamins, minerals, fiber, etc. The candy just comes with a more complex sugar and nothing else, except artificial color and flavor and crap.

Quote:
I think I read somewhere that doing that, especially habitually, would only make your body go into survival mode thus store fat it needs for those periods where you go without eating, resulting in you actually gaining weight rather than losing


It's not so much that when you're in survival mode, your body stores fat as an emergency. When you're chronically short on calories, your body will shut off or slow down non-survival functions, such as metabolic function. This can cause the increase in body fat at first, but over time, if the starvation was ongoing, you'd use those stores for energy. But yeah, people who frequently do purging diets and fasts and what not can definitely seem like they're storing fat. It's because they've slowed down their metabolism way too much. These people just need to eat a balanced diet consistently.

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Terri23
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:32 pm 
 

Apteronotus wrote:
Michelle Bachmann, one of the Republican candidates for the US presidency, said that the HPV vaccine was dangerous during a recent debate. Such a comment from a person respected by so many could, in an attenuated way, cause serious suffering and deaths in the future. I do not really know how common this kind of idiocy is outside of the US though.


This is already happening, on a far larger scale than most would like to admit, which is exactly what Napero was talking about.
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Apteronotus
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:49 pm 
 

Right, I was just providing an additional example. I think this anti-vaccination mess is part of a larger problem of anti-science sentiment. In the US, a lot of that sentiment comes from a person's religious views, but I am not sure how it is all panning out in other parts of the world. I suspect the situation in Ireland would be rather tense given the number of pharmaceutical companies there and religiosity comparable to the US, but I do not know.
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BaloroftheEvilEye
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:27 pm 
 

It's not like that at all here. There is very few people that are devoutly religious in Ireland, especially among the younger generation. I'm pretty sure religion lost most of it's influence in Ireland by the end of the 80's.

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Napero
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:31 pm 
 

Bachmann's issue is with making sex safe, I think.... Sex is supposed to be dirty, painful, disgusting and definitely not desirable. She's worried that a vaccine that protects people from harmful side-effects of sex will mean more fornication, and turn America into Gomorrah. As if turning it into anything was necessary.

Her point does, however, have a tiny speck of truth in it, in a way that almost makes me agree with her on a very narrow level, as far as we only discuss the differences between HPV and polio: HPV is usually transmitted in sexual contact, while polio's transmission is not dependent on such behaviour. Thus, opposing HPV vaccination is, well, OK in my eyes, as it can be mostly avoided by sensible sexual behaviour, and the vaccination is centered on protecting the individual, not eradicating the disease. In polio's case, the refusal to be vaccinated is a huge disservice to the whole mankind, and simply prevents getting permanently rid of one of the most horrifying diseases. Which would be quite feasible and even affordable.

Fuck religions. All of them. Including yours.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:35 pm 
 

Napero wrote:
Fuck religions. All of them. Including yours.

Metal is my religion.
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Napero
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:37 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
Napero wrote:
Fuck religions. All of them. Including yours.

Metal is my religion.

Exception to the rule.
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kingnuuuur
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:17 pm 
 

Napero wrote:
I'm talking about the way evolution made us to eat. In that taco of yours, the taco shell itself and the beans are not really what we are supposed to eat, because they are, in the long run, inedible without cooking. Man was originally built to forage, not to eat grains, MSG or beans.

I'm not following you. Why shouldn't we eat cabbages and beans?
Cabbage has loads of vitamin C (super essential for humans as we can't synthesize it) and glutamine. Beans are loaded with vitamin B9, complex sugars, iron, and fibres.
You can argue that too much cabbage is bad for you, but like someone else said, too much water can kill you as well. Humans learn what is good for them and in roughly what amounts. If a certain food is able to keep us alive without making us sick too often, chances are it shouldn't be a problem if it were part of our regular diet.

Napero wrote:
My point is that without the modern technology, including the fine invention called fire, we would not be able to aquire or even eat many of the things we shove into ourselves in the modern world. Those things improve our survivability as a species, because the world would not be able to feed us all without grains, for example, but that does not mean we were originally meant to eat them. In essence, they are mankind's ad-hoc method of postponing a mildly inconvenient but unavoidable Mathusian indicent that way overdue already.

Taking that train of thought, anything with a rugged inedible exterior like coconuts and pineapples shouldn't be part of our diet either, since we're unable to break open or slice them with our bare hands. Of course we can do so with a couple of sharpened rocks, but then that would be resorting to technology which circumvents the roadblocks imposed by our otherwise natural capabilities, right?

My point is that a nutrient is a nutrient. It doesn't matter where you got it from or how (foraging vs. shopping) because in the end the molecules are the same. Whether you want your vitamins handed to you in a pill or up on a palm tree, won't make much of a difference in terms of nutritional values. Granted, climbing the tree, i.e. foraging, will make you work harder for the nutrients, so you'll get more exercise out of it and be a healthier individual in the long run. Those who choose the pill could still do the equivalent exercise, but since it isn't necessary to their survival like in the palm tree situation, they'd rather opt out and do something else, like watch television and get high in front of the fridge.

Napero wrote:
BTW, to those claiming that sugar is a part of a natural human diet because honey has been around since ancient time: I will believe you once you get that honey from a beehive without fire and completely naked... AND after you offer to do it again.

Again, fructose is fructose whether you get it from honey or apples. If we don't ingest enough sugar, we'll become too weak, sickly, and thin due to hypoglycemia and catabolism.

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mindshadow
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:43 pm 
 

kingnuuuur wrote:
If we don't ingest enough sugar, we'll become too weak, sickly, and thin due to hypoglycemia and catabolism.



I presume you mean sugar produced by eating natural foods, as opposed to white refined sugar from sweets and puddings?

I've just been reading this I found on-line,

Quote:
In animals, or at least in laboratory rats and mice, it’s clear that if the fructose hits the liver in sufficient quantity and with sufficient speed, the liver will convert much of it to fat. This apparently induces a condition known as insulin resistance, which is now considered the fundamental problem in obesity


Quote:
You secrete insulin in response to the foods you eat — particularly the carbohydrates — to keep blood sugar in control after a meal. When your cells are resistant to insulin, your body (your pancreas, to be precise) responds to rising blood sugar by pumping out more and more insulin. Eventually the pancreas can no longer keep up with the demand or it gives in to what diabetologists call “pancreatic exhaustion.” Now your blood sugar will rise out of control, and you’ve got diabetes.


Quote:
If it’s sugar that causes insulin resistance, they say, then the conclusion is hard to avoid that sugar causes cancer


Lots of white refined sugar in sweets/candy I guess?
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Last edited by mindshadow on Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Napero
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:49 pm 
 

OK. You didn't really read what I wrote, right?

There's an idea that we are not supposed to eat anything we can't eat raw. The reasoning is rather simple: cooking, many cases, is used to break up or neutralize things that prevent us from eating certain foodstuffs. In the case of potatoes, they are some sort of alkaloids, IIRC. Most of the foodstuffs with very high starch contents belong in that group. If they can't be eaten raw, they are not a part of the natural human diet, a diet that was essentially formed by evolution before the invention of fire. In this ideology, following the word of a fellow in the movie Sneakers, the best diet for a human being can be found on the floor of the zoo's monkey cage.

Now, we can turn many inedible things into edible items. Hell, we've essentially fed cows the leftovers from paper mills, and each other's bones. But if you take a closer look at the things that are edible after you take away grains, potatoes, legumes, artificial/refined sugar, and the few other items that you can't eat raw, you'll have a very healthy diet left: meat, eggs, vegetables, berries, fruit, nuts, fish, root vegetables, insects (!), shellfish, all sorts of greens... Suddenly, even if you try, you will have very hard time actually overeating enough to gain weight, at least if you do even moderate exercise. That's we way we are supposed to eat, at least I believe so. I used to eat that way for three years, until I stupidly broke the habit when I started building our home. I felt excellent all that time, and approached my ideal weight. It takes a bit of effort, but I can almost promise it's worth the trouble.

Eating fructose in fruit is different from eating honey. If you can't see the difference, at least from the point of energy density, there's no point in discussing this further. The point is that if you ever end up in a discussion on this, promoting the idea I outlined above, someone is going to defend a manic candy habit of a pound a day with that reasoning. If a primitive man got more than a spoonful of honey annually, he was either a lucky bastard or a bee-stung pin cushion with an incredible pain threshold. He did eat natural fruit, probably, but that combines a moderate amount of fructose and glucose with plenty of bulk, fiber, nutrients and, well, effort.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:05 pm 
 

Potatoes can be eaten raw, though. They're no harder than apples. Or carrots.
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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:26 pm 
 

Tch. Eating raw potatoes is asking for trouble. It's not digestible, or at least not easily, and there is a high chance of toxicity if the potato was exposed to sunlight.
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MalignantThrone
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:30 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Tch. Eating raw potatoes is asking for trouble. It's not digestible, or at least not easily, and there is a high chance of toxicity if the potato was exposed to sunlight.

I used to eat raw potatoes on a near-weekly basis as a child, and I don't appear to have suffered any problems because of it. :scratch:
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Napero
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:34 pm 
 

It's heavily dependent on the cultivar, of course, but you can't really do that daily for extended periods of time. And, note, definitely not with natural, non-bred potatoes.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:48 pm 
 

MalignantThrone wrote:
I used to eat raw potatoes on a near-weekly basis as a child, and I don't appear to have suffered any problems because of it. :scratch:

Had it as a kid, too. Just one at a time, though.
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Under_Starmere
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:54 pm 
 

Does meat actually constitute a healthy (safe) food option in this "natural" diet we're talking about, though? Raw meat is fairly risky stuff to consume. Though perhaps our ancient forebears had stronger guts/immunity when it came to digesting raw flesh, and our systems have become less hardy through our millennia of cooking.

Here's a short but interesting article on early man's developing diet and cookery:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =128849908
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Lannerd
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:04 pm 
 

Napero wrote:
There's an idea that we are not supposed to eat anything we can't eat raw. The reasoning is rather simple: cooking, many cases, is used to break up or neutralize things that prevent us from eating certain foodstuffs.


Cooking is actually a possible reason as to why we ended up evolving the way we did. We'd have to eat a ridiculously high amount of raw food to get an equivalent amount of nutrients from raw food alone, vs eating cooked food. I actually vaguely remember reading something a while back saying that over time we've actually lost the digestive enzymes required to digest raw meat, for example, solely due to cooking meat for the last couple of hundred thousand years. This isn't it, but an interesting read nonetheless: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=cooking-up-bigger-brains

Napero wrote:
meat, eggs, vegetables, berries, fruit, nuts, fish, root vegetables, insects (!), shellfish, all sorts of greens... Suddenly, even if you try, you will have very hard time actually overeating enough to gain weight, at least if you do even moderate exercise. That's we way we are supposed to eat, at least I believe so.


It is interesting that things that you can eat raw also closely coincide with food that is considered to be healthy. That said, you would extract more nutrients from many of those foods (especially the meat and poultry) from cooking it, rather than eating it raw.

As for eating raw potatoes: Nothing inherently wrong with it per se... BUT, potatoes exposed to sunlight and physical damage get a build up of glycoalkaloids (and yes they are poisonous) and cooking partially destroys those. That's what makes eating cooked potatoes a lot safer than eating raw. You know how potatoes left sitting around get that greenish tinge to them? Yeah, that's the glycoalkaloid stuff. Silly people eating raw potatoes :lol:

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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:09 pm 
 

Quote:
As for eating raw potatoes: Nothing inherently wrong with it per se... BUT, potatoes exposed to sunlight and physical damage get a build up of glycoalkaloids (and yes they are poisonous) and cooking partially destroys those. That's what makes eating cooked potatoes a lot safer than eating raw. You know how potatoes left sitting around get that greenish tinge to them? Yeah, that's the glycoalkaloid stuff. Silly people eating raw potatoes :lol:

This. Eating raw potatoes per se isn't inherently dangerous, but doing it regularly is asking for trouble.

Same with eating raw meat (though for different reasons, namely bacterial infections). You can eat raw meat occasionally and be fine, but your risks of food poisoning and indigestion are greatly increased.


Sure, men ate raw meat and all sorts of raw foods hundreds of thousands of years ago... they also died pretty young. :p The naturalistic fallacy is exactly that.
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