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Goatfangs
Wicker Mantis

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:02 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:31 pm 
 

In my eternal curiosity of this strange project, I came upon something interesting.

http://thedoomjoint.blogspot.com/search/label/Doomload

This site claims to have a Flittering track amongst other songs, only the first track of "Gloom" that is 15 minutes long. I'm seeing if this guy will upload the second track. How he even got this release is a mystery. I've seen some very sparse claims from others to have the Flittering release.

The Rapidshare link on that page works, and I've listened to the Flittering track. Here is my impression of it:

It's not metal, though it contains some sparse guitar parts. I'd label it as dark ambient/ drone, if anything. It uses samples to achieve quite a decent atmosphere. I highly doubt this is from 1993, the production is actually quite clear and crisp as if this was edited on a computer. There are death growls in the distance and sampled choir and orchestral segments, parts of it sound like the middle of a cathedral. Surprisingly enjoyable, though I'm not an ambient buff. Comparing it to the infamous sample posted a few years ago that contained a sample from Forgotten Tomb, this sounds almost nothing like that sample.

However, that isn't to say that this is definitely Flittering. Though it could be, just that the whole bruhaha over the band many years ago was an attempt to add and keep a non-metal ambient project into the Metal Archives and drive up kvlt value for some reason. There is a possibility that this is an ambient track from some other project relabeled as Flittering. And that is the only reason I am posting this, I wonder if others here might have heard the contents of this track and recognize it.
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TheNiceNightmare
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:35 pm 
 

Uh, did I miss something important, or wasn't Flittering declared a hoax?
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Goatfangs
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:33 pm 
 

There is no doubt that most if not all of the Flittering story involved a hoax. I don't think this 15 minute song is from 1993, and it certainly isn't funeral doom. But the rest of the tracks on the "compilation" of sorts I linked to are genuine tracks from each band, so it makes me wonder exactly how this guy got a hand on a Flittering recording.

Either the site is run by one of the "bereaved brothers", or there was a limited release of "Gloom" that did in fact occur at some point.

I found this purely out of boredom, to see if there was any new development, and I found this.
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MalignantThrone
Vanished in the Cosmic Futility

Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 1:24 am
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:06 pm 
 

For the newbs who want to know the whole story (or most of it):
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=54419
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OzzyApu
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:44 pm 
 

I remember that post of mine on the fifth page. That sample introduced me to Forgotten Tomb. :lol:
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Goatfangs
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:12 pm 
 

OzzyApu wrote:
I remember that post of mine on the fifth page. That sample introduced me to Forgotten Tomb. :lol:


Same here! :lol:

So yes, there was quite a silver lining to that whole... whatever you want to call it.
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Goatfangs
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:52 am 
 

I has an update!

I am 99.9% certain that this is the real Flittering.

I am also 99.9% certain that this is actually from 1993.

And of course, I am 100% certain that this is not funeral doom, nor is it metal. It has some guitar or distortion-y sounds, but instead of being from the underground doom/death tape trading scene, this demo probably was released to the tape splicing and ritual ambient scene of the time. It could very well be possible that because of this, asking doom metal traders about an ambient project would elicit no response and it would seem the project did not exist.

But it existed and it is from 1993.

Stefan R., the owner of the Doomjoint blogspot, was quite informative in his responses. He wasn't aware of the controversy surrounding Flittering either.

The discussion I had with the fellow can be found here:
http://thedoomjoint.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... om_25.html
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henkkjelle
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:34 am 
 

:o Mystery solved? I hope so. :thumbsup:
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juicebitch
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:54 pm 
 

Oh man. I was half hoping that Flittering was real...could it be?

Edit: The inlay attributes the music to "Bereaved Brothers", just like Flittering's MA page. Eerie!
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MalignantThrone
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:47 pm 
 

Holy shit, so Flittering is actually a real, ultra-obscure non-metal band that some troll used to pervert into a mega-kvlt funeral doom pioneer? This situation is getting stranger by the second. Now if we could only get CatBlack_WizardShoe in this thread, we'd not only have the ultimate Flittering reminiscence thread, we might be able to figure out exactly what his intentions were, and possibly find out how the other CatBlack and abracawhatever have to do with this. :)
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Kerber
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:36 pm 
 

Well this is exciting.

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Ribos
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:12 pm 
 

I remain skeptical. The last case ended up being just a Forgotten Tomb track; I will wait a while for someone to note that these are some other doom bands' tracks spliced together or some crap like that. Of course, that would imply that the guy running Doomjoint is misleading us, which would throw into question whether he was CB_WH or whomever.

Problem is, there was just TOO MUCH contrary evidence about the initial Flittering claims to have some dude post some demo and go "yeah it's totally legit from '93" and convince me. I'm gonna wait for the aficionados to give the thumbs-up to this one.
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Halloween
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:28 pm 
 

Ribos wrote:
I remain skeptical. The last case ended up being just a Forgotten Tomb track; I will wait a while for someone to note that these are some other doom bands' tracks spliced together or some crap like that. Of course, that would imply that the guy running Doomjoint is misleading us, which would throw into question whether he was CB_WH or whomever.


It was actually a very obvious troll that did that one, no relation to the original poster, most likely.

This is very interesting though, all of this fuss over that :D

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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:42 am 
 

Lol @ this and at that 5 page long thread.

and lol @ having hope this is real.

I almost want to go and record some stuff as is described as this and name it Flittering. Not to cash in on the name, but to perhaps smash out anyone trying to find this lost cause.
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Ribos
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:09 am 
 

UndeadIdiot wrote:
t was actually a very obvious troll that did that one, no relation to the original poster, most likely.
Indeed, but let's not forget the goose chase the OP led us on with his "oh no that's not me even though that person uses the same email address as me" and all.

This demo does seem to match the sound of that poster's description, though, which leads me to that conclusion that either this is real or a fake constructed by the guy running Doomjoint, and honestly I have no idea who that guy is or how trustworthy he might be, which is why I'm letting people who DO know voice in on the validity.
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Dragunov
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:37 pm 
 

Well, that was a hilarious trip down Memory Lane.
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greenandblack
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:40 pm 
 

I followed the whole Flittering saga with fascination back when it happened, so I was very interested to hear this- and having listened to it, I'm pretty blown away. It isn't funeral doom (and shouldn't have been on the Archives in the first place), but I can see how it could be confused for that or seen as some prototype of it- there is a similar atmosphere, and with the death growls, there was clearly some metal influence on the project. I'm not sure how much credence we can give to anything CB_WH said, but I actually do hear the shoegaze/Slowdive sound he kept talking about. The entire thing is startlingly true to how they were described in general, down to the little details. Even the "evangelical depression" theme they were listed as having when they were on the Archive fits this track- that sample at the beginning ("the Lord Almighty has dealt bitterly with me"), the choirs, the general atmosphere. It's quite good, IMO. I haven't heard anything which sounds much like it before.

If it's a recently made hoax, it's an absolute masterwork of one, and I'd like to hear any other music the hoaxer's done, since he not only made a good track that doesn't sound much like anything else out there, he clearly put an incredible amount of care and effort into making this match up with every scrap of info that was given on Flittering, no matter how small- except for not being metal, but that just adds extra verisimilitude to me. It explains why it didn't show up in any tape-trading lists of the time, and at the same time you can see how someone could have thought of it as a proto-funeral doom thing and added it to the Archives because of the atmosphere and the death growls. And if someone is going to put that much effort into a hoax, wouldn't you think they would publicize it a little? It didn't come up here again until the original poster of this thread went looking and found the Doomjoint post. If someone is going to make up a fake band and be that meticulous about it, I'd think that they'd try a little harder to get it out there. (Not to mention that this Flittering controversy was pretty much only a thing on the Archives, as far as I can tell, so he'd be going to this much effort in order to troll one message board, and then he doesn't even do anything to let that board know about it. Stranger things have happened, but to me that strains credibility more than the band being real.)

And I don't think this is some other band being passed off as Flittering- I could be wrong, as I don't know the dark/ritual ambient scene super well (though it's clearly not any project I know of from that genre), but it doesn't sound like modern dark/ritual ambient does in general (this sounds nothing like Halo Manash, for example), and it matches the description of how Flittering was supposed to sound perfectly (the aforementioned "evangelical depression" theme, the shoegaze influence, the funeral doom-ish sound). In short, as incredible as it may seem after that first thread, I think Flittering actually was a real project, and the "Gloom" tape actually does exist. (And if that's the case, I'm sorry it wasn't reissued on CD- judging by this track, I would have picked it up.) I suppose one way of testing it further might be to find a dark/ritual ambient site and see if anyone there recognizes it as actually being some other project. Also, does anyone have the old abracadabracadaver review saved? I'm wondering how well it matches up with how this sounds. He didn't have the same IP as CB_WH, which was one of the loose ends in that whole saga- if Flittering was a real band, that would indicate that he actually had the tape and reviewed it.

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Goatfangs
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:48 am 
 

UndeadIdiot wrote:
Ribos wrote:
I remain skeptical. The last case ended up being just a Forgotten Tomb track; I will wait a while for someone to note that these are some other doom bands' tracks spliced together or some crap like that. Of course, that would imply that the guy running Doomjoint is misleading us, which would throw into question whether he was CB_WH or whomever.


It was actually a very obvious troll that did that one, no relation to the original poster, most likely.

This is very interesting though, all of this fuss over that :D


Though it has samples spliced together, tape-splicing and ritual ambient were underground scenes that engaged in tape trading. Sometimes they might have crossed paths with black and doom metal traders, but Flittering is likely one of those cases that a total number of tapes sent out never exceeded 100... or even 50.

I strongly doubt Doomjoint is misleading us, he states he wasn't even aware of the controversy about Flittering. Yes, I got to take his word for it.

The Forgotten Tomb sample that appeared in a supposed sample was posted by an obvious troll - because that troll's IP address was completely different from the one user claiming to be one of the Bereaved Brothers.

Wow, you folks have excellent memory on the subject. I certainly didn't think about comparing the descriptions given by CB_WH of Flittering's music with the 15 minute track on the Doomjoint blogspot.

It seems here that this is a personal blogspot of someone who is a fan of underground doom and ambient projects, many of them are from the early 90s. Some of them are quite a bit more prominent than others, but it seems to me this guy just put together a compilation of some of his favorite tracks from each project.

Anyone think they can track down CB_WH and see if he has anything to say on the subject?
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fetalfeast
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:32 am 
 

I've been standing off to the side and keeping an eye on this, this story is quickly becoming more and more fascinating. I know nothing of the "ritual ambient" genre, and did not know it existed until tonight, so this should provide me with plenty of listening material! I'll have to give Gloom a download, although I won't be able to provide anything of worth unless it's an obvious rip of a band I know. I'll stay posted on this.

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Profoundemonium
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:14 pm 
 

I'm really surprised there's actually an update on the whole Flittering thing, I thought after the previous thread there was just no way this thing could be real. I really like the track, even if it's not doom like it was originally described. Hopefully we'll get to hear the other track too, but I don't think the guy from the blog is willing to upload it.

Curiously, I saw the tape mentioned at a random forum I found in an "experimental music" recommendation thread. The post is from two months ago, so it's possible it's just someone who saw the whole conversation here and doesn't actually own it. Although they make no reference at all to the doom metal genre so it could be legit. Here's their comment:

Quote:
3. Flittering / Gloom (1993)
-Serious Occult stuff from a musique concrète tradition (Étude noire) but thankfully not industrial, metal or goth.

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From_Wisdom_To_Mabt
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:48 pm 
 

Flittering or not, I think the songs sound very cool. I never realized until recently that there was such a buzz over this. I remember I stumbled across them one day a few years ago searching for another treasure like Strid's first EP, and tried off and on for a long time to try and find it. I wonder what exactly makes it so damned sought after?

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Gravemarker
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:58 pm 
 

This whole thing is really fascinating, I think now that we have this track, to which CB_WH's descriptions of Gloom match up very closely, could it be proposed that perhaps he did really have the demo after all, and that most of his excuses about not being able to rip/post pictures of the demo were valid? I'm also assuming then, that CB_WS and RazorSK were both a separate entity(they did have a separate IP from CB_WH after all), maybe just some troll looking to have some fun. I just can't accept that this is a hoax, at this point I think there's more than enough evidence suggesting otherwise. If we can chalk up CB_WH's general incompetence to his lack of facility with English, and assume that the other supposed "bereaved brother" was some unrelated troll, there really aren't that many holes left in the story. As greenandblack mentioned, if we could get a look at abracadaver's original review, and the musical description fits Gloom, we'd have three different accounts (CB_WH, Stefan from the doom blog, and acracadaver) all describing the same demo, which would be much more convincing than what we have to work with right now. I'd really, really like this to be real, but all I've got right now is mostly baseless assumptions and theories, so I'm hoping someone can dig up that old review and get us a little further in the investigation here.
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elf48687789
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:59 pm 
 

The WizardShoe guy was an obvious troll who posted a Forgotten Tomb sample claiming it to be Flittering (and also claimed himself to be a member of the group), and RazorSK was the same troll at the same IP address claiming to be a member (in fact of the same name) of Forgotten Tomb and saying he ripped off Flittering (which sounds nothing like the demo posted in this thread).

I don't know about the WizardHat guy (but he did seem sketchy, although more like a shady collector/seller) or the rest.

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juicebitch
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:07 pm 
 

Okay!! Both tracks are now available for streaming!! Go and listen!

http://thedoomjoint.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... om_25.html
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VRR
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:37 pm 
 

Rubbish and fake.
I am also now left wondering how many of the people posting in this thread are part of the troll.

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greenandblack
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:00 am 
 

Just listened to the second track, and liked it as well. One thing I'm struck by, listening to it, is how pronounced the whole religious/"evangelical depression" aspect is throughout this whole thing- I can't tell if it was actually a Christian project or if that element was just used for atmosphere. The general feel of this sort of reminds me of bands like Trouble, where they're Christian, but in a completely different way from the usual preachy "Christian metal"- rather, it's in this tormented Kierkegaardian way which actually seems like a perfect fit for doomy music.

VRR wrote:
Rubbish and fake.
I am also now left wondering how many of the people posting in this thread are part of the troll.


This is taking skepticism to ridiculous lengths. Did you listen to the linked tracks? They could still be a hoax in the sense that they might not actually have been created in 1993, but they exist, and it's very easy to go and hear them for oneself, and even if we aren't completely sure yet that their origin is what it's claimed to be, the music itself is very real, and IMO, good stuff.

Personally, I actually don't care too much whether or not there was a real 1993 "Gloom" tape, at this point. I think there was- with the information we currently have, it seems like the most parsimonious explanation- but to me, the music is actually good enough that it transcends the curiosity value of all this, and as I said before, if it's a hoax, I'd like to hear anything else the hoaxer's done, and hope he keeps making music, because he's clearly quite talented. And if those tracks are really from some other band, no one has found what it is so far, and it's a pretty staggering coincidence that someone found an unrelated band that fit the description of Flittering as perfectly as that.

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VRR
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:25 am 
 

The recordings are bad, and recent, and I already assumed from your earlier post that you were one of the posters who was behind the troll attempt. This reply pretty much confirms it for me.

Just my thoughts: Once there is suspicion of a troll, you can never recover the credibility. So, if you are in any way responsible for all of this (and the lengths you go to in writing about it would suggest you are) then I would suggest you invent a new band identity and try it again, because this Flittering prank was butchered at birth several months ago.

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elf48687789
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:00 am 
 

But from those recordings it's hardly groundbreaking for 1993, interesting, but not groundbreaking. Listen to some Current 93 for that type of tape manipulation.

What I would like to know is: who was the mod(s) who admitted this to the Archives? They had to hear something, either a tape or mp3s (if mp3s, they could have deleted them later) and at least seen a picture of the cover. Now I admit it could sound like the more ambient part of funeral doom, but I didn't notice any part where drums and guitars would kick in, which would make it real funeral doom. Of course it's possible that the mod in question didn't pay attention when listening. Or they heard something else...

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juicebitch
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:35 pm 
 

VRR wrote:
The recordings are bad, and recent, and I already assumed from your earlier post that you were one of the posters who was behind the troll attempt. This reply pretty much confirms it for me.

Just my thoughts: Once there is suspicion of a troll, you can never recover the credibility. So, if you are in any way responsible for all of this (and the lengths you go to in writing about it would suggest you are) then I would suggest you invent a new band identity and try it again, because this Flittering prank was butchered at birth several months ago.


:lol: Hey, I guess my interests in this band and the amount of times I've posted in this thread and followed up the subject means I'm a troll too! Maybe I'm CB_WH!

Or how about you stop being a jack-ass and pointing fingers at people based on your own unfounded and baseless assumptions? Have you got any proof that the recordings are recent? Any proof that any of us are behind the Flittering project?

I assumed from your earlier post that you are 100% full of shit. This reply pretty much confirms it for me.
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greenandblack
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:47 pm 
 

VRR wrote:
Just my thoughts: Once there is suspicion of a troll, you can never recover the credibility. So, if you are in any way responsible for all of this (and the lengths you go to in writing about it would suggest you are) then I would suggest you invent a new band identity and try it again, because this Flittering prank was butchered at birth several months ago.


That's... kind of hilarious, actually. (I'd been hoping you'd have some sort of actual argument for why they couldn't be real.) I can already tell there's not a thing I or anyone could say or do which would shake your conviction that there's some elaborate trolling conspiracy responsible for this and that everyone who's posted here is in on it, but suffice it to say that if I came up with those tracks (and I just wish I had any sort of talent for musical composition, let alone enough to come up with anything like that), I'd certainly be trying to do something a whole lot better and more ambitious with them (like getting signed to a label) than trolling one already-skeptical message board.


elf48687789 wrote:
What I would like to know is: who was the mod(s) who admitted this to the Archives? They had to hear something, either a tape or mp3s (if mp3s, they could have deleted them later) and at least seen a picture of the cover. Now I admit it could sound like the more ambient part of funeral doom, but I didn't notice any part where drums and guitars would kick in, which would make it real funeral doom. Of course it's possible that the mod in question didn't pay attention when listening. Or they heard something else...


Very good question- in the original thread, more than one of the mods commented that they didn't know how the band made it there, and one (ogmetal on page 3 of that thread) said "I don't know how it was accepted in the first place, given that no one has heard the band"- the implication being that they never heard sound samples at all. Whatever happened, clearly one way or another someone was being lax on the usual rules when Flittering was added to the Archives- we'll probably never know the answer, since if the mod who added them didn't come forth on that thread, I doubt they will here. One more mysterious element of this whole thing, I guess.

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juicebitch
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:51 pm 
 

I don't think the acceptance of the band to the boards is that mysterious. Mistakes and oversight do happen regarding acceptance (especially concerning very obscure bands); just visit the Suggestions and Complaints sub-forum for proof. The initial acceptance and subsequent deletion of a band after further review is not uncommon.
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VRR
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:57 am
Posts: 752
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:36 pm 
 

greenandblack wrote:
VRR wrote:
Just my thoughts: Once there is suspicion of a troll, you can never recover the credibility. So, if you are in any way responsible for all of this (and the lengths you go to in writing about it would suggest you are) then I would suggest you invent a new band identity and try it again, because this Flittering prank was butchered at birth several months ago.


That's... kind of hilarious, actually. (I'd been hoping you'd have some sort of actual argument for why they couldn't be real.) I can already tell there's not a thing I or anyone could say or do which would shake your conviction that there's some elaborate trolling conspiracy responsible for this and that everyone who's posted here is in on it, but suffice it to say that if I came up with those tracks (and I just wish I had any sort of talent for musical composition, let alone enough to come up with anything like that), I'd certainly be trying to do something a whole lot better and more ambitious with them (like getting signed to a label) than trolling one already-skeptical message board.


I'm just saying... you strike me as a troll. And this last post doesn't help you much.

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juicebitch
Juice Bitch

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:46 pm 
 

How about you stop derailing the thread and go away? If you're going to assume everyone in here is a troll just for being interested in the topic, then I can't see how any of us are going to get a good discussion out of this.

If you really want to pursue your crusade against trolls, take it to private messages or something at least. Jesus Christ.
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VRR
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:57 am
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:58 pm 
 

What are you expecting to discover here? Did you even read the thread from months back? The guy who invented the band had created similar posts on two message boards as well as an ebay account. His idea was blatently to create hype on here and the other forum, to then try and sell tapes for silly money on ebay. If anything this should be seen as an attempted con/rip-off trader more than a troll.

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juicebitch
Juice Bitch

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:21 pm 
 

1) The thread was created 2 years ago, not months back as you keep saying. Know your shit before you start assuming that other people don't.

2) I actually posted in that thread so yes, I read and followed it.

3) My position then and position now is that I believe CB_WH was never in the band or knew anyone who was in, or related to the band. He/she felt for whatever reason that stirring up interest on an obscure band with a Forgotten Tomb sound-clip was a good idea. I believe there is a real band called Flittering, not metal (was accepted to the Archives by mistake) and was obscure enough for CB_WH to troll us with.

4) The nature of the Doom Joint blogspot author's post has further reinforced my feeling that Flittering is real. Had someone started a new blog with one single post dedicated to Flittering, it would be more suspect. However, a) the Doom Joint blog had been running for about a year before posting the Flittering track online. The other bands he posts there seem legit (I haven't gone through all of them but know a few of them to be real). b)The post about Flittering is part of an online compilation featuring many other bands. It is not a full-page feature of one band. If someone wanted to capitalise on the Flittering kerfuffle, I think it would be more likely for him to create a new blog with one post saying "this is the real Flittering, listen to these audio clips", than feature the band mid-way through an already-established blog in an online compilation, no less. I don't see why anyone would go through the trouble of all that just to feature a fake band that a handful of internet forums talked about 2 years ago. Its possible, but improbable that someone would do that.

This is my opinion.
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VRR
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:57 am
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:36 pm 
 

The first time anybody wrote about this band it was in a proven troll thread, where fake tracks were used.

The person who posted the initial "information" also set up multiple accounts, including one on eBay.

The only other source (which we cannot even confirm is independent from the first "Wizardhat" guy) is a blog. One single blog.

If you cannot add all this up and get "probably troll" then you are willfully stupid or purposefully dishonest. And at this stage I don't really care which it is.

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juicebitch
Juice Bitch

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:53 pm 
 

Good to hear. Have fun somewhere else. Those of us who are clearly not as enlightened as you are will continue discussing this band. Is that okay? Or are you going to continue plaguing this thread with your accusatory comments?
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VRR
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:57 am
Posts: 752
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:25 pm 
 

I am free to post wherever I choose on this board until a moderator decides that my posts are not valid or of any worth in the discussion.

I think that as this board is used by enthusiasts, collectors and traders, it is good and healthy that all areas of the e-drama are covered. This way, people can draw their own conclusions from the facts.

For me, the most important/shittiest part of the troll is the probably-financial motivation, as seen in the eBay account that was made. Like I said earlier this changes it from a prank into a scam in my book, and is why I am posting here.

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Gravemarker
The Bloody Heartland

Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:32 pm
Posts: 1420
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:38 pm 
 

VRR wrote:
For me, the most important/shittiest part of the troll is the probably-financial motivation, as seen in the eBay account that was made. Like I said earlier this changes it from a prank into a scam in my book, and is why I am posting here.


Well that would make sense, except all the controversy was about two years ago and nobody's tried to sell any kind of Flittering material since.
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juicebitch
Juice Bitch

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:39 pm 
 

VRR wrote:
I am free to post wherever I choose on this board until a moderator decides that my posts are not valid or of any worth in the discussion.

I think that as this board is used by enthusiasts, collectors and traders, it is good and healthy that all areas of the e-drama are covered. This way, people can draw their own conclusions from the facts.

For me, the most important/shittiest part of the troll is the probably-financial motivation, as seen in the eBay account that was made. Like I said earlier this changes it from a prank into a scam in my book, and is why I am posting here.


I've stated my view based on the facts in a few posts above. Obviously you and I differ in opinion, and that's totally fine. However I don't think it warrants you calling others "trolls" or being "willfully stupid" just because the conclusion you have come to is different from others. That's based on if you truly believe that it is good and healthy that all areas of this e-drama are covered through discussion.

Also, like Gravemarker has noted, nothing has been on eBay since the incident in 2009. I haven't been searching eBay everyday for a Flittering tape but I have been keeping tabs of any news on this band, so I'm pretty certain that this is true.
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Last edited by juicebitch on Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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