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~Guest 298739
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 324
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:52 pm 
 

Is anyone here interested in linguistics? I've been a little obsessed with it lately and started learning German just today via Duolingo (anyone learning a language ought to at least see if they offer a course on it, unfortunately they do not have anything too abstract), coinciding with my Norwegian and Swedish courses on there because, well, those two seem to be near identical in a lot of cases.

I'm interested in cryptography, cypher, scripts and the like as well so if anyone has anything interesting to say about things like Mycenaean linear b, alien cypher done by Futurama's writing staff and so on you're more than welcome to talk about it.

I've also used this as an excuse to practice my penmanship so I would consider that a relevant topic as well.

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MutantClannfear
Blank Czech

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 3624
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:11 pm 
 

I used to be hardcore into linguistics in high school, but that's kinda gone by the wayside in college since I don't have as much time for casual interests. I'm super-into languages, though - I learned Spanish throughout high school, taught myself intermediate-level Czech around the same time, and this coming semester I'm going to start learning Chinese so I can pursue a minor in it. I also enjoy languages purely for the grammatical aspect, too - I find language learning books (even for languages I don't know) to be excellent bathroom reading material.

Remember to use resources other than Duolingo. It's a good stepping stone, but it's no replacement for actually speaking to other people who know German.
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severzhavnost
Something Stupid

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
Posts: 2952
Location: Ottawa
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:09 pm 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
taught myself intermediate Czech


:thumbsup: Man, that's really impressive. Czech just looks like something thought up by a Pole cheating at Scrabble. "krzajce - 197 points."
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~Guest 298739
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 324
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:20 pm 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
Remember to use resources other than Duolingo. It's a good stepping stone, but it's no replacement for actually speaking to other people who know German.

I did recently sign up to a board that connects you with people (platonically) in your area that speak the language you're learning so you can have conversations in that way

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StainedClass95
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:14 am
Posts: 846
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:27 am 
 

I take a certain interest in the field though I don't know any languages other than English, a smattering of Spanish and German but nothing fluent. My interests more relate to the relationships between languages and the dialects within. The relationship of say, English to Dutch is interesting to me even if I can't understand the latter. Also, the map of languages and dialects and what that bodes for culture more broadly is interesting and somewhat practical as well. It's always nice to be able to quickly gauge the person you're speaking to and what to expect and how to handle it.

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Paganbasque
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:28 am
Posts: 4027
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:17 am 
 

Currently I study Swedish and German. I will do the official exam(called Swedex) in a couple of weeks in Berlin. Lets see how it works.

I will start again with German in nearly two months. I like the language though I have great problems to remember the vocabulary I study, its kinda fustrating.

I speak Spanish, Basque and a mediocre English but I would like to study Finnish in the future. But the language is quite difficult and I think my brain has enought with trying to retain some knowledge in five languages.

Anyway I have always considered learning languages something captivating.

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raspberrysoda
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:51 pm
Posts: 1076
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:43 am 
 

I wish that I could've learned more languages, but I'm too lazy to do that. And also, my native language is not even remotely close to any European languages so learning a new one from that family will be a real pain in the ass.
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Paganbasque
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:28 am
Posts: 4027
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:38 am 
 

raspberrysoda wrote:
I wish that I could've learned more languages, but I'm too lazy to do that. And also, my native language is not even remotely close to any European languages so learning a new one from that family will be a real pain in the ass.


Which language do you speak?

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Ancient_Mariner
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:20 pm
Posts: 1390
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:52 am 
 

I would love to learn a new language, German or maybe French. Though Spanish would be the most logical where I live. I learned some phrases when I went to Germany in 2013 but everyone spoke excellent English and made my terribly broken Deutsch unnecessary other than when I ordered bier. I just need to put time into it.

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MutantClannfear
Blank Czech

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 3624
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:12 pm 
 

severzhavnost wrote:
MutantClannfear wrote:
taught myself intermediate Czech


:thumbsup: Man, that's really impressive. Czech just looks like something thought up by a Pole cheating at Scrabble. "krzajce - 197 points."

Yeah, I find it to be really aesthetically pleasing. All the háčky and acute marks make it look like the words are dashed with sprinkles or something. :lol: Czech Scrabble must be fun, though, using Rs and Ls as vowels and whatnot.
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Dhranna
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Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:27 am
Posts: 194
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:38 pm 
 

Linguistics isn't learning languages.
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awheio
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:00 am
Posts: 539
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:30 pm 
 

Dhranna wrote:
Linguistics isn't learning languages.


This. I am plenty interested in linguistics, but am not really interested in learning other languages. (Okay, maybe German, but that's for independent reasons.)

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raspberrysoda
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:51 pm
Posts: 1076
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:31 pm 
 

Paganbasque wrote:
Which language do you speak?


I speak English, Hebrew, and Russian.
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Festivus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:26 pm
Posts: 1433
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:13 pm 
 

There's already a thread similar to this. But it was for language learning. I guess this could possibly be discussed there as well?

I speak Portuguese(native), English(fluently) and German(intermediate). I do my best to learn vocabulary in most romance and germanic languages in order to have a good enough level to be able to read a decent amount of text in those languages.

Dhranna wrote:
Linguistics isn't learning languages.

This. It's the STUDY of how languages appeared and evolved throughout history, etc. Linguitics are the people who make those language family charts you see, etc.
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~Guest 226319
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 6570
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:44 pm 
 

They are also the people who claim that Turkish is 10,000 years old and the root of all other languages or that Japanese is distantly related to Finnish because that makes it ok to be a Japanese Nazi. Linguistics has a lot cranks in the mix, so be wary!

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Festivus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:26 pm
Posts: 1433
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:51 pm 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
They are also the people who claim that Turkish is 10,000 years old and the root of all other languages or that Japanese is distantly related to Finnish because that makes it ok to be a Japanese Nazi. Linguistics has a lot cranks in the mix, so be wary!

There's lots of theories regarding the origins of the Japanese language. That tends to happen when a language is isolated or can't be pinpointed exactly to any branch in particular. I'm sure many people are still looking for the roots of the Basque language.

Things I find itneresting is how languages surounded by countries of different language than theirs end up surviving. Per example, Hungarian. Finland's and Estonia's languages surviving makes sense to me since they border Russia and Uralic languages come from that region more or less, but Hungary borders Slavic, Germanic and a Romance speaking countries. And Romania doesn't border a single Romance speaking language asides from Moldova which was once part of Romania.
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StainedClass95
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:14 am
Posts: 846
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:29 pm 
 

^ JS is known for wild, sometimes humorous statements; I don't think he's being serious, references to reality aside.

I actually remember my high school Spanish teacher mentioning a Romanian exchange student. She noted that other than a couple misspellings and occasional mistakes with his diacritic marks that Spanish was a walk in the park for him. One would think that some separation would really intensify the differences but apparently Romanian is still fairly close to their linguistic cousins to the west. It's been awhile since English was that close to German or Dutch, and I believe Frisian is on its last knees in many areas.

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Festivus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:26 pm
Posts: 1433
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:39 pm 
 

StainedClass95 wrote:
^ JS is known for wild, sometimes humorous statements; I don't think he's being serious, references to reality aside.

I actually remember my high school Spanish teacher mentioning a Romanian exchange student. She noted that other than a couple misspellings and occasional mistakes with his diacritic marks that Spanish was a walk in the park for him. One would think that some separation would really intensify the differences but apparently Romanian is still fairly close to their linguistic cousins to the west. It's been awhile since English was that close to German or Dutch, and I believe Frisian is on its last knees in many areas.

Ah ok lol. Sometimes it's hard to gauge tone online.

Romanian... I am Portuguese and can barely make anything of it, whether written or spoken. Spoken Romanian just sounds like Italian with a Slavic accent. Romanians seem to have ease learning Italian.

Dutch is definitely close to German, but not mutually intelligible imo. I'd compare their relationship to Portuguese and Italian. Many similar aspects but also many different ones.

English is quite different from German, Dutch, Norwegian, Danish and Swedish. I wonder if it's because of higher Latin influence. But English also has several "unique" words. In the other languages I've mentioned, a lot of the core vocabulary is more similar/closer, while English diverges. There's also some significant difference,s however. In Norwegian and Swedish good is "bra". And in Dutch, war is not "krieg" but "oorlog".

However, then there's Icelandic. Which no other Germanic speaker can understand the overwhelming majority of it.
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StainedClass95
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:14 am
Posts: 846
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:51 pm 
 

Perhaps I should have been clearer. I'm well aware that Dutch and German are separate languages, I'm just musing over the fact that many people in the Romance language family seem to have easier time with one another than English-speakers like myself with our linguistic kin. The influence from French, Latin, Norse, Celtic, etc has done enough to separate English from the other West Germanic languages. I can recognize some words here and there in German, Dutch, etc, but I couldn't really manage a conversation without one of us switching to the other language for a bit. With the Spanish, French, Italian, etc they seem to have more ease with their closest relatives.

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NaCl
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:31 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:41 pm 
 

While I'm currently not too keen on learning different languages, I find linguistics to be an interesting subject. It's peculiar how my language in the Northern Europe (Finnish) and a language in Middle Europe (Hungarian) can be so similar in so many ways.
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~Guest 298739
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 324
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:45 pm 
 

Festivus wrote:
English is quite different from German, Dutch, Norwegian, Danish and Swedish. I wonder if it's because of higher Latin influence.



I've noticed Norwegian grammar is pretty close to English at least in the examples of sentences I've seen, it usually goes subject-verb-noun. But then again I've only been studying it for about two months.

John_Sunlight wrote:
They are also the people who claim that Turkish is 10,000 years old and the root of all other languages [...]

Is this supposed to be as dumb as people that claim the Earth is 6,000 years old? If not I'd actually love to read more about it

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MutantClannfear
Blank Czech

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 3624
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:14 pm 
 

Nhor wrote:
John_Sunlight wrote:
They are also the people who claim that Turkish is 10,000 years old and the root of all other languages [...]

Is this supposed to be as dumb as people that claim the Earth is 6,000 years old? If not I'd actually love to read more about it

If you like stuff like this, check out the subreddit /r/badlinguistics. They find lots of nutjobs who claim lots of pseudoscientific things about their languages. Common candidates for claims of being a "master language" from which all others are descended include Basque, Tamil, Lithuanian and Sanskrit.
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~Guest 375103
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:51 pm
Posts: 213
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:36 pm 
 

First of all, I would like to improve my English skills.
I speak French. I'm also interested in Japanese, Hungarian…


Last edited by ~Guest 375103 on Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:57 am, edited 3 times in total.
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~Guest 21181
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 3987
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:16 pm 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
They are also the people who claim that Turkish is 10,000 years old and the root of all other languages or that Japanese is distantly related to Finnish because that makes it ok to be a Japanese Nazi. Linguistics has a lot cranks in the mix, so be wary!



What is this, amateur hour?!? It's Korean, not Japanese. Everyone knows Korean is distantly related to Finnish due to the effect of L1 interference from POW's of the Finno-Korean Hyperwar.

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severzhavnost
Something Stupid

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
Posts: 2952
Location: Ottawa
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:15 pm 
 

So happy the thread has turned to really halfassed linguistic theories! Ones I like:
- The last survivors of the Sumerians migrated northeast to Central Asia, where they either came in contact with, or simply are themselves, the forerunners of the Turkic family. My only evidence is that the Sumerians endonym meant "black-capped" (probably referring to a ceremonial headdress); a meaning which to my knowledge is shared only by the Karakalpaks - a Turkic group now living in Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan.
- Staying with the Turkic theme, I support the proposed Ural-Altaic relation based on far apart languages such as Hungarian and Kazakh sharing the word "alma" for "apple".
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~Guest 298739
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 324
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:44 pm 
 

That's more of what I'm interested in, I don't want to really discuss language learning in particular. I'd like to instead talk about things like the Great Vowel Shift, 15th century Italy's coding arm's race, how the Phoenician alphabet turned into the Arabic alphabet...things along that line.

Moreover, analysis of a language itself the motivation of its invention, its peculiarities, strengths and faults etc are really interesting I think. I can't remember the name of it, but there was an alphabet whose first letter was the same as the last because it was extremely important and so as to create a circle when written.

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Paganbasque
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:28 am
Posts: 4027
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:37 am 
 

raspberrysoda wrote:
Paganbasque wrote:
Which language do you speak?


I speak English, Hebrew, and Russian.


Thanks, I guess you were refering to Hebrew which is a semitic languange but I must admit that my knowledge about it is very limited.

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Paganbasque
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:28 am
Posts: 4027
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:41 am 
 

Festivus wrote:
John_Sunlight wrote:
They are also the people who claim that Turkish is 10,000 years old and the root of all other languages or that Japanese is distantly related to Finnish because that makes it ok to be a Japanese Nazi. Linguistics has a lot cranks in the mix, so be wary!

There's lots of theories regarding the origins of the Japanese language. That tends to happen when a language is isolated or can't be pinpointed exactly to any branch in particular. I'm sure many people are still looking for the roots of the Basque language.

Things I find itneresting is how languages surounded by countries of different language than theirs end up surviving. Per example, Hungarian. Finland's and Estonia's languages surviving makes sense to me since they border Russia and Uralic languages come from that region more or less, but Hungary borders Slavic, Germanic and a Romance speaking countries. And Romania doesn't border a single Romance speaking language asides from Moldova which was once part of Romania.


Yes they are trying to find an origin, there are some funny theories about Basque´s origin being the most probable that is a descendant of the ancient Iberian language. But there is a really limited amount of information about that language to make serious comparisons.

Basque is also a great(and weird) example of an isolated language sorrounded by other languages which have nothing in common to Basque, and that they are much more spoken than Basque. Neighbours like Spanish and French dont make life easy.

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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
Posts: 8854
Location: Yorkshire
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:39 am 
 

severzhavnost wrote:
MutantClannfear wrote:
taught myself intermediate Czech


:thumbsup: Man, that's really impressive. Czech just looks like something thought up by a Pole cheating at Scrabble. "krzajce - 197 points."


I'd be interested in hearing if a Czech would judge your spoken level as intermediate. Learning vocabulary and doing grammatical exercises are certainly things you can do on your own. But language learning - especially one so far removed from your mother tongue - tends to require some sort of teacher. I'm sure there's a wealth of teenagers who think they can speak another language because they've translated some phrases on google. :P
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Yahko
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:27 pm
Posts: 269
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:12 am 
 

My linguistics involvement became involuntary because I Migrated from Russia to Israel, then to Canada. So I know Russian, Hebrew and English. I dont read, I have poor writing skills and I always write with grammar mistakes. (While writing this post I had 30% of words having a red underlining). All that aside my appreciation for languages is through discovery of idioms, phrases and comedy in general. Comedy is usually using wrong grammar on purpose. It will mix things that are not common. The challenge of how to translate an idiom or a joke from Russian to Hebrew, English to Hebrew, English to Russian is really interesting. Trying to translate phrases or finding their equivalent in another language is a challenge.
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MutantClannfear
Blank Czech

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 3624
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:12 pm 
 

Acrobat wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing if a Czech would judge your spoken level as intermediate. Learning vocabulary and doing grammatical exercises are certainly things you can do on your own. But language learning - especially one so far removed from your mother tongue - tends to require some sort of teacher. I'm sure there's a wealth of teenagers who think they can speak another language because they've translated some phrases on google. :P

I'll admit that my Czech isn't as sharp as it was at my peak, but for the record I did communicate with native speakers via Skype fairly often, so I do have some sort of reference for how well I do in a two-way interaction. And of course those native speakers help me out with a lot of stuff too, so saying that I "self-study" is something I use to mean I didn't study the language in a classroom or a lesson plan.
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~Guest 298739
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 324
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:25 pm 
 

Paganbasque wrote:
Yes they are trying to find an origin, there are some funny theories about Basque´s origin being the most probable that is a descendant of the ancient Iberian language. But there is a really limited amount of information about that language to make serious comparisons.

Basque is also a great(and weird) example of an isolated language sorrounded by other languages which have nothing in common to Basque, and that they are much more spoken than Basque. Neighbours like Spanish and French dont make life easy.


Damn this is really cool. I assume by your name you have some considerable interest in basque then?

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MutantClannfear
Blank Czech

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 3624
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:44 pm 
 

He's from Basque Country.
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RNG
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:30 pm
Posts: 282
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:59 am 
 

Linguistics is one of my greatest interests! I took an intro class at the UW this summer and really enjoyed it. I'd choose it as a major but it doesn't pay as well as biochem.

But yeah. The diversity of languages, in morphological, syntactical and phonological senses, is one of the coolest things about humanity imo. I'd love to study the languages of the Pacific Northwest some time - my Ling teacher works with the Nuu-chah-nulth language of Vancouver Island and the things he told us about its grammar are fascinatingly alien.

I also find conlangs really fascinating. I've spent a long time reading through the Ithkuil website, and the way it forces you to confront your thought processes in greater detail is crazy, even if the language itself is aesthetically unappealing to say the least :P

Oh, yeah, I also speak Japanese and Hebrew, and a bit of Finnish.
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sebas4423
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:33 am
Posts: 112
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:42 pm 
 

Well, I've always loved languages.
Probably kind of forced onto me in high school with six of 'em, but I developed a love for them non the less.
I found it particularly fun to be able to read anything, anywhere I went. In school I learned Dutch, English, French, German, Ancient Greek and Latin.
This set me up greatly for living in western Europe, but I also learned to READ Russian and Arabic. I learned the American Sign Language and some basic Italian.
I just love the fact that I can read (if not understand) a lot of things anywhere I go. Or to see the differences in how we use intonation where we do or do not use certain words compared to other languages. Just so much you can learn from a culture if you combine it with basic knowledge of languages!

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~Guest 298739
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 324
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:40 pm 
 

Holy shit you had to learn 6 languages in school alone?

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~Guest 298739
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 324
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:01 am 
 

This guy's videos are really cool actually if you like people that give quick analyses of language and stuff

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~Guest 375103
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:51 pm
Posts: 213
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:00 am 
 

Hi. Thank you for sharing this video. I have been interested in Japanese for a long time.

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~Guest 298739
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 pm
Posts: 324
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:22 pm 
 

That guy's a pretty good source of info that I'm mainly interested in. Another dude put up a severely detailed analysis of the Voynich earlier today but he removed it shortly after. I'm hoping it's for editing purposes because it was really good and I'd like to share it.

You're welcome, I am too but that's something I'll have to pay attention to later rather than sooner.

EDIT: Here they are, he put it back up


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~Guest 375103
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:51 pm
Posts: 213
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:04 am 
 

I subscribed to his youtube channel. I hope he'll make a video about Hungarian language.

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