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swayze
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:10 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:18 pm 
 

Yes, strength training (that is, training with increasing strength as the goal) would require heavy weight. You don't need to be an expert... You just need to ask yourself what strength is. What does it mean to be strong? Is it picking up 3lb? Well, no. Is it picking up 6lb? Again, no. To gain strength, one has to lift heavier weights. I made a post earlier in the topic about the suggested method for brand new trainers, but even being new, I would never suggest anyone curl 3 or 6lb weights. 50 repetitions is pure endurance, and I can't think of any activity that requires one to curl one's arms 50 times while holding something that's really light.

Also, regarding diet... There's more to putting on muscle than carbs and protein. These are two of the three macronutrients. The other is FAT. If you want to get strong, jacked, whatever, you need adequate amounts of fat. Fat keeps your body producing adequate hormones (read: testosterone and growth hormone) and cholesterol is a necessary catalyst in the production of testosterone. Also, there are the three very important micronutrients: vitamins, minerals, and water.

You can get all six of these nutrient types by eating good, clean food: meat, vegetables, fruit, good dairy, some grains, and by drinking lots of water.

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ThrashDeathDoom
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Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:15 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:52 pm 
 

swayze wrote:
Yes, strength training (that is, training with increasing strength as the goal) would require heavy weight. You don't need to be an expert... You just need to ask yourself what strength is. What does it mean to be strong? Is it picking up 3lb? Well, no. Is it picking up 6lb? Again, no. To gain strength, one has to lift heavier weights. I made a post earlier in the topic about the suggested method for brand new trainers, but even being new, I would never suggest anyone curl 3 or 6lb weights. 50 repetitions is pure endurance, and I can't think of any activity that requires one to curl one's arms 50 times while holding something that's really light.

Also, regarding diet... There's more to putting on muscle than carbs and protein. These are two of the three macronutrients. The other is FAT. If you want to get strong, jacked, whatever, you need adequate amounts of fat. Fat keeps your body producing adequate hormones (read: testosterone and growth hormone) and cholesterol is a necessary catalyst in the production of testosterone. Also, there are the three very important micronutrients: vitamins, minerals, and water.

You can get all six of these nutrient types by eating good, clean food: meat, vegetables, fruit, good dairy, some grains, and by drinking lots of water.


True. You just never hear anyone talk about putting MORE fat in their diet lol, but what you said is true.

Also remember there are different kinds of strength. There's "quick twitch" strength which is being able to do something very hard and fast but not very many times. This is the kind of training that builds the biggest muscles (high weight, low reps). Then there's strength over endurance. That's being able to do something with high intensity over and over again. Like chinups, pushups, calisthenics really builds this kind of strength, and in turn endurance as well. You also develop "body awareness" with calisthenics, being aware and in control of every part of your body in various positions. This is important for wrestlers, gymnasts, fighters, military, athletes, all kinds of people. You develop a little awareness with free weights, and you don't develop it at all with machines.

The best thing you could do is mix it up. Do weights, going for pure quick twitch strength, do some cardio and build lung capacity, endurance, better blood flow. Do calisthenics, they are in my opinion the most important and build the most solid foundation you could ever build upon. You'll get strong as hell if you get into an intense calisthenics program, and you'll get alot of that strength over endurance, a very important thing if you ever want to actually use your strength in real world situations.

If you mix everything up, you'll find it's harder on you at first, and it might make you want to quit, but you'll get big improvements when they start playing off each other. For example, running (cardio) will burn the fat off your body like nothing else. This will, in turn, help you function better by cutting down unnecessary weight. That will help you push a couple more reps out of your strength workouts if you've been doing those too (your body will run more efficiently). Obviously I'm not saying if you run you'll be able to benchpress more, the effect is not that direct, but you're doing just THAT much more to workout more efficiently. Your overall bodyweight and muscle to mass ratio does affect things like pushups and chinups more directly though, obviously, as those are bodyweight exercises.

Of course, alot of this doesn't apply if you are only aiming for muscle mass increase (ie bodybuilding). Does that make any sense?
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grauer_mausling
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Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:00 am
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:52 am 
 

Thanks, guys, for the very informative answers. Some of it I already heard/read elsewhere but other stuff I didn't. Plus, it's great to have it all together neatly here.

I personally do my fitness stuff mainly for one reason: keeping pain in my back at bay! As I have written before since I started to go swimming on a regular basis I am painless (Huzaaah!). Before that I always went running and did some crucnch/sit-up sets but only the swimming really works for my back.
However I always had (and have) a normal, slender build (ok, a little toll on my belly but nothing actually "fat") and always wanted to get a bit stronger, bigger (in muscle terms).

So, here's what I do regulary. maybe you can see if it is a quite okay-ish schedule or if it sucks or could be optimized:

MON: - free -

TUE: swimming (ca. 1 kilometre at very slow speed; in the beginning I swam with way more power but my back benefits more when I do it slow and concentrated)

WED: running (about 6 kilometres), afterwards a sit-up/crunch set (this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkKCVCZe ... re=channel ), further some dumbbell exercises
(single-hand dumbbells with 20lbs, 3x10 right arm, 3x10 left arm, then normal dumbbell with 30lbs at 3x10) and finally 3x10 squats

THU: swimming (as above)

FRI: - free -

SAT: swimming as above

SUN: running, sit ups, dumbbell+squats as above

Apart from the fact that the swimming works great for me, the dumbbell exercises seem to bring not so much results. I don't think e.g. my arms have gotten any bigger over the months... :-/
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dystopia4
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Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:47 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:06 am 
 

Fuck, hurt myself snowboarding so it looks like I won't be able to lift weights for at least 4 or 5 days. I have a question for people who know a lot of this stuff. I heard that low weights and high reps means strength and high weight and low reps means muscle. How do I get decent sized muscles and strength?

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King_Hands
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Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:46 am
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Location: Indiana
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:59 am 
 

Lift heavy weights, do compound lifts, keep reps per set around 5. This will give a good balance between pure strength and muscular size.

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ThrashDeathDoom
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Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:15 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:22 pm 
 

It seems like your plan is good for your purposes, I'd work with heavier weights on the curling bar though (if that's what you meant when you said normal dumbbell). If you're doing 20 lbs with one hand, I'd do at least 40 lbs on the curling bar.

How long have you kept at it continously and seen no muscular size increases? I'm not very familiar with using swimming in training, so I can't say much about it, but that may be a reason why you're not seeing size increase. I know swimming is cardio, it's actually harder on your body than running isn't it? I wouldn't cut it out though for you, it seems to benefit you alot with your back and all.

You probably already know I'm going to say this, but push-ups man. Add those in with when you do crunches. Do the exact number of push-ups as you do crunches, divided up the same way, so that it equals the same. The benefits of push-ups are infinite (well, not really, but very numerous). They will consistently help you perform better in everything you do. They work every muscle in your body to some degree. I cannot stress how important they are to building serious strength, and mental toughness as well. Why do you think the Marine Corps, Army, Navy, Air Force etc all beat their recruits into the ground constantly with push-ups? It builds strength, stamina and mental toughness like nothing else.

Don't sleep on mental toughness. It sounds stupid to some, but your mind plays a huge game in your workouts. The more you learn to shut your thoughts up when they want you to quit, the harder you'll be able to push yourself and ultimately you'll get more out of your workouts. Mental toughness that you build will also benefit you outside of working out and the gym, as well.

Just some thoughts and suggestions. Also, there's some good info on this site I'll put at the bottom of my post. I see you're interested in calisthenics to some degree (crunches, situps), and this site has a plethora of exercise routines and plans focusing on that kind of stuff. It's geared toward people joining the military or already in the military, but you don't need to be a soldier to work out like one.

http://www.military.com/military-fitness/

And an interesting article too below. This one really led to a revolution in the way I workout today.

http://www.military.com/military-fitnes ... pt-pyramid

EDIT: you can use pyramids for any exercise, not just push-ups, sit-ups and chin-ups like the article. And you can play with the numbers to custom fit it to you. Hell, I even use a pyramid-based system in running sometimes, the idea is versatile and it really helps prevent boredom in your workouts.
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grauer_mausling
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:18 pm 
 

ThrashDeathDoom wrote:
It seems like your plan is good for your purposes, I'd work with heavier weights on the curling bar though (if that's what you meant when you said normal dumbbell). If you're doing 20 lbs with one hand, I'd do at least 40 lbs on the curling bar.


Yes, the curling bar is what I meant. Didn't knew the english word for it ;)
I think you're right and I will increase the weight a bit...

ThrashDeathDoom wrote:
How long have you kept at it continously and seen no muscular size increases? I'm not very familiar with using swimming in training, so I can't say much about it, but that may be a reason why you're not seeing size increase. I know swimming is cardio, it's actually harder on your body than running isn't it? I wouldn't cut it out though for you, it seems to benefit you alot with your back and all.


Well, ok, I stopped weight exercises about April 2010 when my back was at it's most painful peak. Shortly after that (and visitng my doc) I started swimming, so to say in March 2010. About since October 2010 I again started with weight exerc. and since then I couldn't really see any increase.
My endurance, of course, has grown a lot due to swimming. It's really more exhausting than running even swimming that slow as I do.

ThrashDeathDoom wrote:
You probably already know I'm going to say this, but push-ups man. Add those in with when you do crunches. Do the exact number of push-ups as you do crunches, divided up the same way, so that it equals the same.
....
http://www.military.com/military-fitness/
And an interesting article too below. This one really led to a revolution in the way I workout today.
http://www.military.com/military-fitnes ... pt-pyramid


Thanks, I will include push ups in my routine. Sounds very good regarding the benefits and I think the "danger" of doing sth bad to my back is far less with push ups than with weights.
Also the stuff found via your links is highly interesting. Surely the so called "Fighter Fitness" was influenced by such training methods.

One general question more:
I think many of you will know this. Regardless of focus and mental tougness there are days when you want to train but just can't due to outside factors like too much work, wife/relationship stuff, dates whatever.
At least I have such "problmes" sometimes.
So my question is:
Is it of any use if I find some minutes on such a day to do, say, a very small routine of 4x20 push ups and some crunches? Do these few minutes have any (muscular) benefit at all or is it just wasted time and I should better to a full training set when there's enough time?
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Slag
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:15 pm 
 

If your schedule doesn't allow a proper amount of time for a your routine work-out, then doing a small/quick amount as you said helps. It wont add to development, but it will stagnate the decline of not doing anything at all.
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usernamepassword
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:44 pm 
 

dystopia4 wrote:
I heard that low weights and high reps means strength and high weight and low reps means muscle.?

Actually I'd put it this way:

low weights high reps = endurance, bloodstream
high weights low reps = strength, muscle mass

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ThrashDeathDoom
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Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:15 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:22 pm 
 

Slag wrote:
If your schedule doesn't allow a proper amount of time for a your routine work-out, then doing a small/quick amount as you said helps. It wont add to development, but it will stagnate the decline of not doing anything at all.


Pretty much. Something is better than nothing. If I don't have a lot of time, I do a quick workout that doesn't max anything physically but works everything. Like I'll do some supersets of pushups, crunches and chinups, then I'll go for a run (maybe mile and a half or 2 miles. something short depending on time), then I'll come back and do some more supersets. Stretch out then I've at least fought off being dormant. Try not to rest too much on short workouts, that's why I utilize supersets then.

There's lots of circuit training too that maximizes workout and minimizes time.
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swayze
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:42 pm 
 

How is your back hurt? What specific injury? If it has anything to do with a lumbar disc bulge or herniation,avoid crunches or sit ups altogether. They will make it worse.

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grauer_mausling
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:42 pm 
 

swayze wrote:
How is your back hurt? What specific injury?


Ok, I try to describe it in eglish. Those medical stuff is a bit hard to tell in a foreign language ;)

The basic facts are:

Due to too much and too wrong sitting and sitting positions after years of working in front of the computer the muscles around my shoulder blades and general upper back are somewhat declined/weak and when doing a "wrong move" (best example: stretching in the morning after getting out of bed to move away the tiredness) I suffer from something similar like a lumbago (just at another part than a standard lumbago in the lower back) which can take your breath (believe me - it's like getting stabbed).

When this occured nearly in a monthly period and it couldn't be seen anything on the x-ray (so nothing wrong with the bones at least) my doc told me that sports would be the best way to prevent it. I told him that I do running and sit ups (as I knew/thought that sitting a lot needs sit ups to build up muscles to sustain the back). However the sit ups work mainly for the lower part. The doc then told me that swimming is the best thing to do. And he was right. Since then I'm painfree and have no problems with sit-up, crunches and lighter weights (I'm afraid of heavier dumbbells and deadlifting).

edit:
Oh, and I now and the make use of the so called Gymstick. Though it's a german page you can view some videos without speaking the language ;)
http://www.starker-ruecken.com/eigene-u ... /gymstick/
I have the feeling it helps for my back, too, yet isn't suited for building up real strength or size (too light/weak for harder training). But after a stressful day in the office it is quite ok...
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Gelseth_Andrano
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:10 pm 
 

grauer_mausling wrote:
swayze wrote:
How is your back hurt? What specific injury?


Ok, I try to describe it in eglish. Those medical stuff is a bit hard to tell in a foreign language ;)

The basic facts are:

Due to too much and too wrong sitting and sitting positions after years of working in front of the computer the muscles around my shoulder blades and general upper back are somewhat declined/weak and when doing a "wrong move" (best example: stretching in the morning after getting out of bed to move away the tiredness) I suffer from something similar like a lumbago (just at another part than a standard lumbago in the lower back) which can take your breath (believe me - it's like getting stabbed).

When this occured nearly in a monthly period and it couldn't be seen anything on the x-ray (so nothing wrong with the bones at least) my doc told me that sports would be the best way to prevent it. I told him that I do running and sit ups (as I knew/thought that sitting a lot needs sit ups to build up muscles to sustain the back). However the sit ups work mainly for the lower part. The doc then told me that swimming is the best thing to do. And he was right. Since then I'm painfree and have no problems with sit-up, crunches and lighter weights (I'm afraid of heavier dumbbells and deadlifting).

edit:
Oh, and I now and the make use of the so called Gymstick. Though it's a german page you can view some videos without speaking the language ;)
http://www.starker-ruecken.com/eigene-u ... /gymstick/
I have the feeling it helps for my back, too, yet isn't suited for building up real strength or size (too light/weak for harder training). But after a stressful day in the office it is quite ok...


besides swimming, has your doctor forbiden you from lifting any kind of weights?
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grauer_mausling
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:22 pm 
 

No, he didn't as it's some form of muscular and not bone based problem. It's just that I feel when putting up more weight how the tension from the lifting effort "moves" from the arms over my shoulder to the shoulder blades (of cours my knees are a bit bend when doing stuff with the dumbbells) and as such I'm afraid of putting up too much weight at this moment.
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Gelseth_Andrano
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:28 pm 
 

grauer_mausling wrote:
No, he didn't as it's some form of muscular and not bone based problem. It's just that I feel when putting up more weight how the tension from the lifting effort "moves" from the arms over my shoulder to the shoulder blades (of cours my knees are a bit bend when doing stuff with the dumbbells) and as such I'm afraid of putting up too much weight at this moment.


gotchya. have you tried using very VERY light weight when it come to back? doing very simple, very low weight back stuff might help rebuild you back that much faser, just to get hem strong again
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grauer_mausling
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:32 pm 
 

Gelseth_Andrano wrote:
gotchya. have you tried using very VERY light weight when it come to back? doing very simple, very low weight back stuff might help rebuild you back that much faser, just to get hem strong again


Well, basically that is what I do (hopefully) by swimming and with the gymstick :) Do you have some exercises for that with a dumbbell?

edit: btw - here are two fantastic mixes for working out to, filled with all the 80s action movies had to offer :D Filled with cheesiness par exellence!
http://soundcloud.com/maddecent/blood-bros-first-blood
http://soundcloud.com/maddecent/blood-b ... ll/s-EhSzZ
(that is if you need sth otheer than metal now and then).
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swayze
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:20 am 
 

Oh, good, it's not the bones. It's posture.

What is happening is that you have certain muscles that are very weak and certain muscles that are very tight. To bring balance to the body and stay pain-free, the idea would be to strengthen the weak muscles and stretch the tight muscles. Usually, what is seen in people who sit for years is what is known as a "lower cross posture," which is frequently coupled with "upper cross posture." You've described a bit of both, though you're more describing upper cross posture.

Typically, the parts of the body that would need to be strengthened would be:

- Glutes
- Hamstrings
- Lower Abdominals
- Middle and upper back
- Neck flexors

And the parts that would need to be stretched would be:

- Hip flexors
- Quadriceps
- Low back
- Chest
- Neck extensors

Swimming is an excellent activity for you. If you could afford the investment, finding a professional that specializes in postural rehabilitation would be great too. Otherwise, I would read up on upper cross and lower cross posture/syndrome, and learn a little bit how to exercise to get back into balance. There is a TON of shit on google, as these are extremely common (as a lot of people sit all day). I'd link some good sites, but it would make more sense for you to find some stuff in German, I think.

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kingnuuuur
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:49 am 
 

Strength training only constitutes 1/4 of good physical fitness.

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King_Hands
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:40 pm 
 

What are the other 3/4?

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kingnuuuur
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:34 pm 
 

Agility, cardiovascular conditioning and nutrition. I'd also add #5 which is REST. You can do all the best exercises in the world with perfect form and all, but if you don't give yourself enough rest you'll end up doing more harm to yourself than good.

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grauer_mausling
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:07 am 
 

ThrashDeathDoom wrote:
You probably already know I'm going to say this, but push-ups man. Add those in with when you do crunches. Do the exact number of push-ups as you do crunches, divided up the same way, so that it equals the same.


I incorporated push ups in my program. But, man, it's hard *lol* At this moment I just can't do as much push up as I do crunches. So far I'm doing 8x40 (8 different crunch/sit up exercises, 30 sec. pause after two diff. exerc) and only manage to do about 13x10 push ups (always pausing for 30 secs after 10 p-u). Long way to go, I think. But the muscle ache in my breast and upper arms feels good, hehe)
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AcidWorm
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:22 pm 
 

So I got some creatine mix by body fortress the other day from a sports store and I read up on it and it said I should begin with loading for a week or 2 so I have been taking double doses a day as recommended for that and it is giving me really bad indigestion and diarrhea. Is that normal?

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MeltedFace
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:27 pm 
 

AcidWorm wrote:
So I got some creatine mix by body fortress the other day from a sports store and I read up on it and it said I should begin with loading for a week or 2 so I have been taking double doses a day as recommended for that and it is giving me really bad indigestion and diarrhea. Is that normal?


Not really that normal, but I'm not sure what's all in that product. It's probably not the Creatine causing the problems, but something else in the product. Do you have a link to what it is you are taking?

I personally take straight up Creatine Monohydrate. It's much cheaper and just as effective. I typically take it about an hour before I lift along with some carbohydrates, usually with breakfast (2 pieces of toast plus 6 eggs) and then I take it immediately post workout along with my Whey protein and some simple carbohydrates. I use dextrose which is just corn sugar, but any simple carbs will work, such as Gatorade.

Simple sugars immediately post workout help the protein and Creatine be much more effective with absorption.
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swayze
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:29 am 
 

AcidWorm wrote:
So I got some creatine mix by body fortress the other day from a sports store and I read up on it and it said I should begin with loading for a week or 2 so I have been taking double doses a day as recommended for that and it is giving me really bad indigestion and diarrhea. Is that normal?


Are these in capsule form, by any chance? The first thought that comes to mind is that you might have a food insensitivity to an ingredient in the capsule. If that's the case, simply open the capsule and pour the powder into your mouth, and swish with some water. If you are just taking a powder though, loading can be hard on the kidneys, so make sure you're drinking way more water than you usually do... 3.5L+ a day.

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Errebuss
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:40 am 
 

I was into long distance running for a few years, but after going through a foot injury, I had to stop. I want to get back into it and get back into great shape (I was doing between 6-9 miles a day) but my main problem has been starting off slow. Every time I try to start again, I push myself way too hard and end up getting burnt out and super sore after a few work outs. My other problem is finding time between school and work to do work outs.

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Hybrid_Killer
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:38 am 
 

So fucking annoying. Just started Wendler's 5-3-1 (in the 2nd week of my first wave) and I've fucked up me knee doing something unrelated and I can't squat at all. Going to the physio tomorrow to find out what's wrong with it and what I can do about it.

Unless the physio warns me otherwise I'll continue doing deadlift days, bench press days and SOHP days until its fine to squat again. I think to compensate for me not squatting during this wave I won't add the 10 pounds Wendler suggests to my max squat number for the next wave and just go off the max I was using for this first wave.

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kingnuuuur
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:28 pm 
 

AcidWorm wrote:
So I got some creatine mix by body fortress the other day from a sports store and I read up on it and it said I should begin with loading for a week or 2 so I have been taking double doses a day as recommended for that and it is giving me really bad indigestion and diarrhea. Is that normal?

It's completely normal since your body's telling you that you're taking TOO MUCH. I don't get why people take stupid supplements anyway.

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MeltedFace
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:22 pm 
 

kingnuuuur wrote:
AcidWorm wrote:
So I got some creatine mix by body fortress the other day from a sports store and I read up on it and it said I should begin with loading for a week or 2 so I have been taking double doses a day as recommended for that and it is giving me really bad indigestion and diarrhea. Is that normal?

It's completely normal since your body's telling you that you're taking TOO MUCH. I don't get why people take stupid supplements anyway.


You think creatine is a stupid supplement?
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Crusty_Grind_Punk
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:48 pm 
 

I'm getting myself back on track, I've started doing this 45 minute aerobics workout with my dad in the morning again, and lifting weights once or twice a week...figured I should stop being such a lazy fucker and get working out (frequently) again.
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BoltTheGates
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:28 pm 
 

Good thing this thread's still open. I've been in a lazy funk for the most part this past month, but I'm trying to get back into working out, more so than ever. In short, I have a really big date in a month and I want to look and, more importantly, feel my best. I'm changing up my work out routine at the gym by doing a longer bike run in the beginning, pushing myself harder with weights, no music after my bike run, and stretching to finish up (According to the phys. ed. class I'm taking right now, this is the correct way; I can't believe my weight training class didn't teach this). I'm also gonna try to jog more, especially when it starts to get warmer outside. I went to GNC today and bought a few things: fish oil capsules (per the recommendation on the first page) and protein powder. I tried the protein blend after my first big workout today, and, surprisingly, it tasted really good. Unfortunately, I calculated how many days the bag will last me based on the recommended servings, and it's only a week's worth.

One thing I'm concerned about is taking naps. Sleep and school usually don't go well together with me. I enjoy taking naps midway into my day, but are they bad if I take one after I just had a big workout?

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AcidWorm
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:57 pm 
 

kingnuuuur wrote:
AcidWorm wrote:
So I got some creatine mix by body fortress the other day from a sports store and I read up on it and it said I should begin with loading for a week or 2 so I have been taking double doses a day as recommended for that and it is giving me really bad indigestion and diarrhea. Is that normal?

It's completely normal since your body's telling you that you're taking TOO MUCH. I don't get why people take stupid supplements anyway.


Yeah I am fine now. I spoke to my physical trainer and i am just taking it before and after workouts now and my indigestion is gone. AFter a bit of reading around it is probably just all the protein causing it. I'm taking a powder mix and here is the amazon link to it.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0011U ... B0011UYVBM

I don't see why it is stupid since creatine is a natural enhancement and has few side effects. I've only worked out with it a couple times and already noticed a big difference in energy gains.

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kingnuuuur
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:09 am 
 

Creatine itself is a naturally occuring compound in your body and is not a supplement. The bullshit poorly regulated company products are. IMO they're an unnecessary risk and a complete waste of money because everyone can do extremely well without them, with hard work and good nutrition. It's amazing how people are told anecdotal stories and made to believe that they need supplements in order to be as good as others. Bodybuilding supplements are a multibillion dollar business precisely because they make people feel insecure without them.

That said, creatine is only really useful if you're new at bodybuilding because it'll just get you slightly bigger in shorter time. When it comes down to endurance sports, it will never make you outperform a physically fit person.

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MeltedFace
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:25 am 
 

kingnuuuur wrote:
Creatine itself is a naturally occuring compound in your body and is not a supplement. The bullshit poorly regulated company products are. IMO they're an unnecessary risk and a complete waste of money because everyone can do extremely well without them, with hard work and good nutrition. It's amazing how people are told anecdotal stories and made to believe that they need supplements in order to be as good as others. Supplements are a multibillion dollar business precisely because they make people feel insecure without using them.

That said, creatine is only really useful if you're new at bodybuilding because it'll just get you slightly bigger in shorter time. When it comes down to endurance sports, it will never make you outperform a physically fit person.


That's why I always use pure Creatine Monohydrate plus dextrose. I know exactly what I'm putting in my body and it's much less expensive.

You're absolutely right that people can do well without supplements, but many of us don't want to do well, we want to do our best. And I would hardly classify university studies as anecdotal stories. I use a variety of supplements - Whey Protein, Creatine, BCAAs, Glutamine, Arginine, and Fish Oils. Every single one of these supplements has been proven effective AND safe, if not beneficial for health. Proven in multiple university studies. You'll also notice that all of my supplements are just pure versions, not mega mixes. This means I always know what's going into my body.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info, but your post reads like something I'd hear on Dateline intended to scare soccer moms.

You're completely wrong about it only being useful to new lifters. Using Creatine makes your body more efficient in using the ATP-PC system, something that all lifters use. Some people feel Creatine is more effective if you cycle it in and out of your diet, but that's debatable.

And obviously Creatine is worthless to endurance athletes, they don't use the ATP-PC system.
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kingnuuuur
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:45 am 
 

MeltedFace wrote:
That's why I always use pure Creatine Monohydrate plus dextrose. I know exactly what I'm putting in my body and it's much less expensive.

You're absolutely right that people can do well without supplements, but many of us don't want to do well, we want to do our best. And I would hardly classify university studies as anecdotal stories. I use a variety of supplements - Whey Protein, Creatine, BCAAs, Glutamine, Arginine, and Fish Oils. Every single one of these supplements has been proven effective AND safe, if not beneficial for health. Proven in multiple university studies. You'll also notice that all of my supplements are just pure versions, not mega mixes. This means I always know what's going into my body.

Are you kidding me? OF COURSE they're beneficial for our health and proven to be effective. Shit they've only been in our natural diet since prehistoric times! The "variety of supplements" you cited are all naturally present in fish, chicken, red meat and milk. And dextrose, really? You mean that sugar which can be found in all foods and produced by hydrolysing more complex sugars in our intestines anyway?!

You seem to think that I'm dissing the actual compounds. University studies have proven the biological and pharmacological significance of those natural compounds for our survival. There's no arguing about that. What I'm really debating is the safety and usefulness of the company sold supplement products. The fact of the matter remains that these lucrative products are untested by the FDA and completely unregulated by the Codex Alimentarius. Now it's your turn to tell me, where do you get that guarantee of purity? On their labels, the company ads, or people at the gym?

MeltedFace wrote:
You're completely wrong about it only being useful to new lifters. Using Creatine makes your body more efficient in using the ATP-PC system, something that all lifters use.

That's not the point. The point is that everyone will reach a stage where they get diminishing returns, with or without creatine. Beginners who do use creatine will only get there a bit faster than others, that's it.

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Hybrid_Killer
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:40 pm 
 

kingnuuuur wrote:
Beginners who do use creatine will only get there a bit faster than others, that's it.



Generally I'd say real beginners who are using creatine are wasting their time. A beginner just starting to lift weights with a good program is going to make a shitload of "noob" gains anyway, creatine at this stage of their development is totally unnecessary.

The other thing with noob gains in beginners is that it makes it hard to tell if its because of the creatine that they're making such large gains or if its because as they're really weak (as beginners generally would be), doing any resistance training at all tends to lead to large gains in the short-run anyway.

I'd think people are much better off developing a strength base first and making sure their getting enough good calories/sleep before using creatine. You can always get really good results with a good lifting program, good nutrition and sufficient recovery. Creatine is pointless without all 3 of the former; until you truly understand and can fully implement these 3 (ie. you aren't a beginner anymore and are well on your way to being really fucking strong/having the physique you want etc.) I wouldn't bother with creatine.

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kingnuuuur
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:19 pm 
 

Good point Hybrid_Killer, and it does add to what I'm trying to say. Unless you're an experienced bodybuilder (read: years of hard training) it's generally not worth the money or the potential health risks you get from a very poorly regulated industry. Even then you're not going to get terribly much benefits out of it.

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ThrashDeathDoom
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:04 pm 
 

grauer_mausling wrote:
ThrashDeathDoom wrote:
You probably already know I'm going to say this, but push-ups man. Add those in with when you do crunches. Do the exact number of push-ups as you do crunches, divided up the same way, so that it equals the same.


I incorporated push ups in my program. But, man, it's hard *lol* At this moment I just can't do as much push up as I do crunches. So far I'm doing 8x40 (8 different crunch/sit up exercises, 30 sec. pause after two diff. exerc) and only manage to do about 13x10 push ups (always pausing for 30 secs after 10 p-u). Long way to go, I think. But the muscle ache in my breast and upper arms feels good, hehe)


Hey man good job. I do push-ups so much I never feel a deep burn too much anymore, it's depressing.

But yeah, they're definitely alot harder than they look and sound. Everyone can do 10 push-ups in their gym class when you "exercise", but not many can sets upon sets of them. They take a lot out of you when you get into 40+ reps per set. You'll notice you'll be getting alot stronger man, keep at em.

It's easy to plateau with them as you get better at them, and you'll have to mix it up and get creative. there's an endless number of ways to modify the exercise. When they get too easy (itll take a while but they will), try planting your feet on a chair instead of the floor. When that gets too easy, use a higher platform. A wall. Stacked cinder blocks, anything. The higher the incline the more you fight gravity to complete a rep. Modify hand positions... closer together will work your triceps harder and further apart will work your shoulder and pecs more.

Then there's the clap push-up, they're fun lol, but take your wind away fast. They're nice for showing off more than anything :p. Keep up the good work
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MikeyC
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:23 am 
 

I've started eating a little healthier, while improving my work-out technique at the gym (by actually trying harder :lol:) for nearly two weeks. I noticed an almost immediate improvement in my physical and mental health and now I feel better than I have for a while. I have lots of energy now, which is especially handy for work, as I was always sluggish and exhausted. I feel happier and I am enjoying the rewards of taking care of my body.

However, I know that none of this is possible without adequate sleep. Eating right and exercising regularly means next to nothing if you're not sleeping enough. Last Sunday night, I only got four hours sleep and I could feel the repercussions all week. While I was still fairly energised, I knew I was fatigued a little. Sleep is vitally important, and probably the most important aspect of feeling healthy.
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waiguoren
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:27 am 
 

MikeyC wrote:
However, I know that none of this is possible without adequate sleep. Eating right and exercising regularly means next to nothing if you're not sleeping enough. Last Sunday night, I only got four hours sleep and I could feel the repercussions all week. While I was still fairly energised, I knew I was fatigued a little. Sleep is vitally important, and probably the most important aspect of feeling healthy.


As someone that gets regular bouts of insomnia, I couldn't agree more. I'm so paranoid about not sleeping and about getting sleep, that it ruins my sleep, if that makes any sense.
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MikeyC
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:29 am 
 

waiguoren wrote:
MikeyC wrote:
However, I know that none of this is possible without adequate sleep. Eating right and exercising regularly means next to nothing if you're not sleeping enough. Last Sunday night, I only got four hours sleep and I could feel the repercussions all week. While I was still fairly energised, I knew I was fatigued a little. Sleep is vitally important, and probably the most important aspect of feeling healthy.


As someone that gets regular bouts of insomnia, I couldn't agree more. I'm so paranoid about not sleeping and about getting sleep, that it ruins my sleep, if that makes any sense.

Yeah, that does make sense, actually. I could not handle insomnia. I enjoy sleep way too much for that. What causes your insomnia?
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