Do it on leg day, or do it on chest/triceps and just finish your shoulders off once you have done the rest of your exercises.

Dumbest thing I done... ride motorcycle to gym, work legs out hard to the point of walking on jello leg feet, and then have to ride that Harley home again. Makes for quite the exciting ride.

All hail the pavement!!!

If I do it on leg day won't my shoulders still be healing from benching? For now I'm doing it on the same day as chest, but it means that I can't lift as heavy as I would be able to otherwise (and my shoulders are already disproportionally weak). I suppose I could do a 4 day split, but afraid that doing that would be overkill.

Hahaha, Dennis, I've had hard times walking home before can't imagine on a motorcycle.

Depends on how you bench, really.

Do it on chest/tricep day then. Either way you are cashing your shoulders out. Stimulate the muscle, it will grow.. Again you seem to be focusing on the numbers of your lifts too much. Benching mainly hits the anterior head anyway, this shouldn't hamper overhead press that much.

If you insist on maintaining that same 3 day split, I would alternate between bench press and shoulder press as your main compound movement of your chest/triceps day. You can do both in the same day, but at least switch the order in which you do them every workout or so. Since your shoulders are lagging, I would add a few sets of side lateral and bent over raises every few days as well toward the end of your workouts. That should bring the medial/posterior delts up to speed after a while, and your anterior delts should be more than covered by bench and shoulder press.

Guess that keeping the split and including shoulder and/or military press on chest day but alternating order with bench would be the most logical thing to do. Honestly, was so preoccupied with getting my bench numbers up that it didn't even occur to me (yes, like Diamhea said I am focused on high numbers, but I think that's alright given that I'd love to participate in a powerlifting meet a year or two down the road).

Well, I got a couple of free classes of suspension training and really fuckin like it. So, I got a home kit - it's like plyometrics on roids. Love the resistance, and the best way to maintain ASS KICKING potential is using own body weight. This coupled with my BJJ should keep me pretty fly for awhile.

Strange thing I watched over the last couple of months: I workout harder/more determined than before and my gut/belly has been growing fatter and
fatter while not (really not!) eating more than before… Any ideas why this happens or is it "just my age" (38) which takes it's genetic toll?

Testosterone starts to drop around 40, it gets harder to keep that excess weight off. Gotta adjust, up the cardio or something.

It starts dropping at 30. Growth hormone starts dropping at a much earlier rate, and also falls more rapidly.

grauser: it's the aging process. You can supplement your testosterone levels or tweak your routine and diet to enhance what you have now, but forget about improvement at this point. You're not going to markedly improve without steroids or other chemical boosts. By the age of 38, if you've been regularly training (absent any serious deficiencies like terrible diet, workout routine, or health/injury), the best you can do moving forward is to maintain your physique.

I thought so :-| and already wondered why I still manage to add weight on the bar but don't grow any more visible muscles. Guess I accept it that way.
Think I will add some more cardio and more bodyweight exercises and see where it takes me. It would be ok to keep my muscles the way they are now
as long as my gut/belly goes away

Barry is right, and I could have elucidated my point better. It begins to drop far earlier, but for most men it only begins to becomes a noticeable factor as they begin to clear 40. I'm not sure what your body goals are, but you can maybe look into TRT if you are that concerned. Your body still works the same way otherwise, so there is no reason you can't put on size at that age, you would just need to watch your diet much closer and keep an eye out for injuries, because as you get older those battle wounds begin to take foreverrr to heal.

Yes, I do really keep out an eye out for injuries. I had my share STill extremely carfeully on deadlifts and squats (even using the leg press instead
on some days where I feel not completely "right" in my lower back). *knocks on wood* I still want to put on size, mainly on my arms as esp. my legs
and upper back respond damn good and grow while my arms (no matter how I train, I tried many diff. routines over the time) just stay behind. Think
I mentioned this already in this thread and "cursed" my long arms

Btw - what is TRT?

Testosterone replacement therapy.

IMO just drop the deadlifts altogether to save your back. Re your arms: Everyone has a few genetic shortcomings/advantages, but maybe try mixing up your arm workouts concerning volume (not just type of exercise(s) used). I have really long arms myself too, and the double disadvantage of being really tall, so it took forever to look "filled out."

I'm rambling, but the bottom line is try some different things. You should always have a rotation going anyway to 1. keep proceedings somewhat engaging and 2. Keep your muscles guessing.

Oh, ok. No, I'm not that concerned. I did a complete medical check-up a few months ago (hey, you should do that when you're old like me, haha)
and my testosterone level was normally and ok for a man of my age and I don't want to put any stuff/medicine into my body if it is just for the looks
as an ego-boost

It's hard but probably I really need to change my diet and look more closely. The times where I could eat what and how much I wanted to seem
to be over now…

I'm trying to get back into this fitness shit after suffering an injury/illness and adjusting myself from college to 60+ hour work weeks. Because of the nature of my injury (testicular), it's almost as if I saw the other side. Nothing in me wants to lift heavy anymore, I could give two shits about hitting a personal 1RM anymore. Instead, I'm looking to focus on cardio while using weight lifting to supplement that and to manage the problem of loose skin. I just don't know where to start in terms of programming. For most of my training life I've done Wendler's or other similar low rep programs, and whenever I try to do rep work it always seems to be pure stagnation in terms of progression. These have definitely given me the muscle I need to work with, but I'm perplexed as how to start this process. I guess what I'm asking is what type of routine will help me stick to these goals (fat loss, toning) and won't burn me out from the injury, as I still feel pain/pressure when undergoing regular activity. My doctor told me I was good to go, however.

Uh "toning"... so you are just trying to cut fat, I'm assuming? You know it is 90% diet, just maintain your lifts and make sure you are hitting your macros at the end of the day. Aim for a caloric deficit of 500/day and you'll lose a solid pound per week. Push it up once you feel comfortable. People overthink the training far too often IMO, all I can suggest is what "doesn't bore you."

It was like all downhill at 30 for me. I've been slowly buying home gym stuff instead of paying for a gym membership and I've been pretty good about working out at home lately. I wish someone would have told me about foam rollers earlier though! I get a ton of soreness in my quads and hamstrings from squats but using a foam roller makes me feel so much better.

I've been having pain in my left quad when I squat lately. What do the foam rollers do?

They get rid of the knots in your muscles and generally just help with tightness. I've been doing it for a few months and my legs don't really cramp up like they used to and I feel like I have better mobility in my lower body. They've done wonders for my hamstrings, which used to be really tight and I'd get hurt deadlifting because of that. They're also really helpful for the lower back.

Do you just sit down, put them on your thighs and roll them?

More or less, I'd suggest watching a how to video on youtube.

So I'm starting a manual labour job in two days (my job is to literally lift things and move them), and I'm just wondering if anyone who has been in this so of situation could tell me what effect this will have on strength training in the gym. I think I might have to reel it in and only go to the gym 3 days a week (especially when I start working full time in a month) and take it easy on the deadlift because a back injury could make me unable to do my job.

my experience is that most people caaaaaannot be fucked at all.
but some guys will still hit the gym after work, while you're still kinda in the zone.
some stick to their normal routine.
some become fucking useless at work because they're too killed from the gym (I've started doing this recently--the first days back after my weekend workout are miserable...poor ROM, DOMS all day...but I'm still more useful than the fuckers who don't exercise).

all the back injuries we've had have been from women. I doubt a guy who deadlifts would have much problem (either from weakness or idiotic technique) (a few guys at work are into the 5x5 style of workout), and I'd be surprised if giving up your lifts would be a good idea--staying in such good shape should help more than hurt you, assuming that the manual labor isn't _that_ heavy. . . . I remember when I started my manual laboring job, my biceps were so sore that week... nowadays I find I need to do chin-ups or curls or something to make up for the lack of strain they're getting. if the training you do is harder than anything work can throw at you, work won't be such a strain that you'll feel the need to give up any training...it just won't be a toll on _your_ body/back/whatever like it would be for some people, even if you feel like you've already weakened it working to failure on this or that lift. suppose it all depends how good a condition you're in.

I've never been in your position, so I'm just speculating. But if I do, as was mentioned, something like a 5x5 workout, I can still get satisfactory strength gains without having serious DOMS all the time. Of course, if I try a lift I haven't done in a while, I will get DOMS, and if I increase volume for a day, I may get DOMS, but in general I feel much more physically capable than when I was doing more stereotypically "bodybuilding" training -- high reps, going to failure, etc.

I got mine from Target and it came with a cheesy DVD. Like the person above me said, you could probably just find a good video on youtube. Mine is smooth and made out of thick foam but some of them have bumps on them. I'm fairly sensitive so the smooth one is good enough for me. I just put it on the carpet or a mat and roll myself along it with my bodyweight. It hurts a little at first but it helps me recover.

I would think you would be more concerned about the job ruining your back and then you being unable to deadlift. Or are back injuries that commonplace as a result of deadlifting? If that's the case I'd say fuck that, living with a fucked back on account of a gym exercise (or for that matter, a shitty job).

The job's not shitty, and you're probably not going to ruin your back if you know how to lift properly and not trying to lift way more than you can handle.

Well, I'll be praying for your well-being. You are a big, strong guy - I'm sure you can handle a job like that better than most could.

schizoid: Back/hamstring injuries are very common with deadlifts. I wouldn't even bother with them myself, but some people have physiques that are better built for certain exercises. Taller guys seem to have it easier with deads, for whatever reason. I've just never bothered. I genetically have a pretty wide frame and back, and I don't like exercises that compress the spine in such a manner.

Right. I just seem to know plenty of people with life long back complaints, they just never seem to go away. So personally I'd avoid anything that put that at risk. Because once that's gone, good luck enjoying any other physical activity for life. I had a close call at work where I pinched a nerve in my lower back. It still bothers me sometimes to this day, nothing serious, but enough of a wake up call. So now I refuse to do that same task that caused it.

Agreed. I'm not in this to be in pain for the rest of my life. Part of bodybuilding is working around injuries, because they will likely happen no matter what. Thankfully the worst I have ever had was a little tennis elbow back when I first started. Some people live or die by the "Big 3" (Deadlift/Squat/Bench) but I am always trying to find new and different ways to hit the muscles without risking it with huge weight. Drop sets, burning out, etc. Lots of possibilities there. I have never had a workout partner, so that sort of forced me to find ways around lifting massive weight. Has worked out pretty well IMO.

Just this year I finally started doing deadlifts and squats regularly. Overall, they have helped to improve my posture and connective tissue, so I have experienced far less back pain. But since I'm still very much a novice with those lifts, the weight is low. If I had to advise someone else who was in normal physical shape, I would definitely tell them to do deadlifts, but to keep the weight at a cautiously low level -- there's no need to attempt a 1 rep max ever for the casual lifter. Don't use straps, use a double overhand grip... with those things in mind, deadlift seems to be one of the safest available lifts, and given its enormous benefits, I think it is very much worthwhile. But like I said, I'm a novice. I haven't even deadlifted as much as 300 lbs yet.

Just rambling about my experience with deadlifts:

I didn't do deadlifts for the first year or so I was lifting. Well, that's not completely true... I slipped a disc during a warmup set at a meager weight of 225. I couldn't even do a situp for about 4 months after that... but then, about 9 months after the disc slip, I did the stronglifts 5x5 program and slowly brought my deadlift up from a low starting weight of 135 to a 5 rep max at 325. I felt like I was stagnating on the program at that point and focused on putting an extra 10 lbs on the bar every DL day until I hit a weight I could only squeeze out 1 rep. If I couldn't hit the rep, I would deload 10% and build back up.

I had another back injury during a warmup rep of 345 a few months later. I took about a month off from weightlifting, then started back up from 275. This time, I placed a heavier focus on form... watched a ton of videos on youtube to figure out a style that works for me. I'm back up to a 1rm of 375 as of yesterday, coming close to my goal of 405 (no belt, no straps)... and followed that up with a PR of 160 lbs for a clean and press (unrelated, I know, but 'twas a good day at the gym for me!). Unfortunately, the limiting factor right now for the deadlift is my grip strength in my right hand... had a boxer's fracture back in 2012 and my grip has been shitty ever since. Almost nailed another rep of 375 about 5 minutes after I hit the other one, but felt the bar slipping out of my hand as I was trying to lockout.

Despite sustaining two painful back injuries, I still do the deadlift. Why? Because my body responds well to it. Even with the n00b gains in my first year of lifting, I've done so much better in the following years... way more muscle than I thought I could tack on, and a pretty outstanding endorphin rush after a heavy pull. Plus, I still get some heavy leg work out of it that I typically don't get with squats due to fear of being stapled to the floor. It's a great lift and it taxes nearly every muscle in your body.

Awesome. Glad it worked out for you in spite of the injuries. It isn't for everybody, but you can't deny its value as a challenging compound movement.

It's a fun lift... and even in spite of my injuries, I'm never really scared to deadlift heavy. Squat and bench press, on the other hand, put me in a state of paranoia from the first rep on my working sets. I'm noticing that my hamstrings are overdeveloped in relation to my quads, so as of today I'm subbing back squats out for Zercher squats for the next few months (much less intimidating than having the barbell right on your spine). Bench, though... I rarely go above body weight. If I fail a rep, I like to be able to save face and at least stand up with the barbell and rerack it in case someone is watching >_>. That's actually one of the main reasons I do military press much more frequently than bench... if you fail military, you just put the weight back on the ground and rest!

You mean dumbbell bench press? Military is for shoulders; maybe I am missing your point.

I've only ever done bench with dumbbells, again because I don't have a lifting partner. Barbell bench makes the front delts come into play too much, IMO. Dumbbells are safer and it makes each arm work independently.

specifically, what? (I know it's legit, but I just don't know if it would provide anything I want)

If I tried to answer this question, I would just be reciting what I've read online. So, you'd be better off just googling "benefits of deadlifting" or whatever.

Nah, military press... standing overhead shoulder press, no leg drive. It mostly works mid and front delts, but the upper pecs come majorly into play as well. If you clean the barbell every rep, you get a lot of work done on your rear delts as an added bonus. I still do bench for the lower pec development, but I usually only hit bench once every week or so, whereas I'll do sets of hang clean and press pretty much every other day.

Ever try decline bench? It hits the chest very well, and I got a lot out of it development-wise compared to flat. Your other post was just confusing, the way you segued into military from talking about benchpress. Military press is hard on the shoulder joint, so I try to incorporate lots of front/side raises too, which are fun and easy to burn out on.

A press is a press , and military is my main chest exercise for all intents and purposes. I do bench and dips to get a pump, but for my body configuration, military press is just much easier on my shoulders than bench and incline bench. I don't typically do decline bench very often at all.

I normally do full body workouts consisting of 3 compound exercises: one for legs, one for press, one for pull. For my purposes, I count deadlift as a leg movement (because I personally *hate* doing squats and DL in the same workout). Every now and then, usually when I'm cutting fat, I'll do more of a bro split between chest, back, shoulders, arms, and legs. On this split, I'll occasionally throw in decline press for chest day. It doesn't really fit the aesthetic I'm going for to have a really big chest, though, so it's a pretty infrequent move. Same with traps. I typically only do shrugs once or twice a month... tricky muscles. They grow too quick when you isolate, imo.