That's good to hear. Did you make any gains in size when doing it? I'm aware it's not a hypertrophy program but getting bigger is always a plus.

I've been enjoying it a lot so far. I've never done any of these compound lifts besides benching and was apprehensive at first, but that went away quickly. I've taken a liking to squats in particular.

I know most of you guys are more into powerlifting, but hopefully some of you will enjoy this

little promo video of the group I train with (I don't go to a weights gym)

Neat facility!

Absolutely. I hadn't done any squatting really beforehand, and my legs grew a lot very quickly. From sticks to trunks. Forearms grew a lot from deadlifting, back too -- my back would have grown a lot more, but I am just now realizing that I didn't know how to row. But I think that once I get form down, that'll blow up too. Basically, I think it gets you pretty damn near the biggest you can get without dedicated bodybuilding routines. Or, as far as I'm concerned, to the point of diminishing marginal utility...

You sound like Jason Blaha, awheio

If he was really acting like Jason Blaha he'd leave a pic of him flexing his bicep at the end of his post.

Spaghetti arms @ 25% bodyfat of peace.

Hahaha, that's mean! I got my deadlift up to 405 at least, bench 305, now my squat is up to 315 on a good day. Very wonky numbers, because I didn't know anything about lifting during the period when I was young and built up my foundations. But now I'm on track to be balanced and so on. But I don't immediately understand why I would compare with that guy. I do have less bodyfat, but I don't actually care about it at this stage -- I'm still struggling to eat enough to keep gaining muscle, after all.

Dude, you are just like Blaha! Your knee-jerk defensive posture is to rattle off your lifting numbers. Nobody is saying that isn't impressive, but then again nobody questioned it either.

You are claiming to have tree-trunk legs and that you blow up from consistent weight training. You know I have to keep pestering you until you post a pic.

I see. I don't know much about this Blaha fellow, except that he looks grotesquely weak. Rattling off my lifting numbers, however, is not a knee-jerk defensive posture: It's my considered conclusion on how to best convey my level of experience, success, and balance -- not all of which are terribly great, obviously.

Tree-trunk legs was, however, intended to be relative to my earlier self. My thighs are about 27", but that's again with like 15-20% BF. I don't yet intend on capitulating to the request for a picture though: I generally don't see the value as compensating for the fact of sharing awkward selfies online.

The value is that it legitimizes your claims, albeit in a different way than rattling off your lifting numbers/totals does.

Blaha is fairly strong, but looks like shit. My agenda is pigeonholing the approach many young lifters are taking nowadays. The clinical adherence to these lifting programs and the approach that values performance over aesthetic results is in itself, fine, but the truth is that most elementary/intermediate lifters I've come across who follow these protocols aren't satisfied with how they look. Their reaction is to embrace this pseudo-powerlifter identity, which bashes the bodybuilding approach in a manner that comes off as grasping at straws. This image describes this mindset well:



Blaha is a perfect poster child for the collective failure of these individuals. A former bodybuilder who couldn't or more likely wouldn't diet properly or display enough patience/willpower to meet his goals, despite juicing all along. Now he spends his days knocking bodybuilding because among other things, he wasn't blessed with the genetic shape for it and refused to improve his weak areas. This whole obsession with who is "natty" or not is an extension of these peoples' insecurity. The mindset is that if they don't believe they can achieve it (and by extension won't) - everyone who looks better than them must be juicing. Please note that Blaha has never stopped using steroids himself and look at the guy. It almost comes off as a pathetic joke, but he has a lot of followers who embrace the same mindset. It's just an excuse to abstain from dieting and brings us some of the worst epithet of gym rats: the permabulker with an ego like Death_Is_A_Gateway.

I'm not saying you fall under this umbrella categorically, but a few of you guys display some elements of this way of thinking, so I'm offering an alternative, and my take on the subject.

My physique is absolutely closer to the "function" drawing in your post, and I share with others the orientation toward powerlifting over bodybuilding, but beyond that I don't see many commonalities. I got into this for health, basically. Of course, lifting heavy weights is addictive as you watch numbers go up, but that's just ego -- at the end of the day, I just want to have a developed, healthy body. I have never been fat, but I have no interest in maintaining bodyfat below 10%, for a number of reasons -- I don't care much about the aesthetic benefits, and in some cases think a little more fat just looks better anyway, and it takes a lot of effort, makes it harder to maintain aggressive exercise, and is possibly less healthy. (I don't know.) One could of course contend that this is all "sour grapes", but I don't think so. I have extensive reflective reasons for going on the path I've elected to go on, and I don't meanwhile spend time critiquing others or trying to convince others I'm better than I am. Basically, it's just a difference of preference. And I can't resist thinking that I'm just way, way more intelligent than people like that guy, based on how you've described him. So the comparison doesn't seem apt.

I wasn't denying that posting pictures has some value. But since I hate posting pictures, it's a tough trade.

But there's a picture, anyway. Pretty normal, apart from I guess a large chest and no traps/back (not that you can see it there). Of course you also can't see my thighs, but they're there.

You look awesome dude!

How tall are you?

Thanks. I'm only about 5'8". Which of course is generally an advantage with this stuff...

True, its a short man's game.

And to clarify, I'm not saying any of you guys actually fit the stereotype I detailed, but I think its fair to look at it from the opposite point of view as well, and maybe draw influence from both camps since there is value in each approach.

Somehow you remind me of Omar Isuf, awheio.

The owner of this supplement company sent me an unopened tub of this preworkout to try the new formula. This is the strongest pre-workout I've ever tried and I recommend it as an alternative to C4.

https://www.a1supplements.com/blackstone-labs-dust-v2

Latest progress pic. I miss being able to take photos at the gym.

Your genetic tricep shape is very full from top to bottom. My triceps are very high insertion point.

Haha, I did have my hair in a bun, after all.

Having some pretty good success in the squat and deadlift lately by ditching the 5x5s for sets of 8 and adding 5 more pounds to the bar every workout. My 8 rep max is actually higher than what my one rep max was on deadlift a year ago, so pretty happy about that. I'm hoping to squat 4 plates and deadlift five plates in the next 6 months or so. Also found that switching to lowbar is helping my squats quite a bit even if I'm still getting used to it.

Aye, also been doing well with squats, deadlifts and bench. Making improvements, that's for sure. We're gonna keep it up, clam.


Yeah, I can see that for sure. I have more photos I took for another forum the other day; there's a lot I still need to improve on BUT it's still good. I've gained a bit of chub and need to work that down again, too.

Wow, that looks crazy dense..

Hey, dystopia4, where's your rotating action figure spread?

Pff a bit of chub. If you mean those barely noticable love handles, I think we can look the other way. Much progress, Derigin. It's pretty crazy how your abdomen actually goes in. I'm to imagine that you aren't flexing at all here, huh.

With the exception of my arms in the first pic, I'm relaxed stance.

Heh, maybe if I lose 20lbs.

Gym was busy tonight, and I was shocked that some kid came up to me and asked for pointers. Out of all of the people in the gym, and I'm not even big at all, and he comes up to me...

I think this is because my form is always controlled and in perfect cadence. I guess he could tell that I knew what I was doing.

Man, I'm getting excited. Not all that long ago I was about 260 lbs and just a sloppy fat fuck but just today I came in at 206. 200 is going to feel really good. I'm gonna celebrate and get back up to 205 proper quick, hah.

I'm kind of getting nervous about bottoming out though. For now I'm still making steady gains in lift numbers and/or reps while steadily losing weight, but I get the strong impression at some point I'm gonna stop making progress with the lifts or, even scarier, start backsliding a bit on them, if I continue to eat as few calories as I do. Just a matter of resisting the urge to start eating more until I get my body fat where I want it to be before bulking back up (I'm kinda crossing my fingers that that will come around next fall, just in time for a new gym membership and a winter bulk...I hope).

Been toying with the idea of joining a gym recently. Since moving into the city at the end of last year I've been watching my belly grow, as I don't have the same motivation to go on 2-3 hour night time walks (with a weighted backpack) in this enviroment as I did when I lived closer to the country. I'm not overweight but certainly heading that way. I also never stick to my routine (if you could call it that...) of simple dumbell exercises.

The idea is to have a weekly routine of doing lots of cardio (exercise bike or something similar, can't do running anymore as I have a dodgy knee) with some weight training. Always been quite skinny on the limbs, lifting could be a huge confidence booster for me.

However, the motivation for going through with it is fluctuating pretty badly. Partially because the options aren't as great as I thought they'd be in a big city - the one that's closest is unreasonably expensive, whereas the other two are harder for me to get to (I don't drive) and apparently super busy most of the time, though they're open 24/7 which could be really handy. Which brings me to my next hurdle, which is the anxiety of entering a busy gym as a person who clearly has never set foot in a gym before.

Guess there's no advice to give me other than "get over it and just go". Everyone started somewhere.

I dunno, I'd say find what you can enjoy.

Recognize this is an old post, but it jumped out at me a bit. Personally, I don't have the best experience with bodybuilders whether in real life or online. Other than a very few, many I've met come off as very arrogant, obsessed with being seen as "alpha," overall disrespectful to anyone who isn't interested in bodybuilding or lifting. They have a tendency to make massive judgement calls on the health of others and seem to deem themselves as healthier and generally superior to other people. My experience with powerlifting has been different, as well as what little experience I've had with strongmen. Maybe its just luck, but I have personally found those communities much more supportive (probably due to how small they are in comparison) and less judgmental. There is a genuine recognition of the those sports as hobbies and personal interests rather than placing a superior value. There are certainly arrogant powerlifters and strongmen out there, especially at the professional levels for sure, but I do notice a difference between the three sports overall as far as attitude/judgment towards others. I think some of the issues you've identified with the comparisons between bodybuilding and other strength sports be it powerlifting, strongman, olympic lifting is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to that arrogance. Of course, I think the arrogance of many bodybuilders also becomes more apparent because the sport, at the moment, is much more popular and visible these days. There are a lot of teens and early 20s guys out there getting into bodybuilding as a "lifestyle change," which then seems to make them follow that lead of thinking they're superior to others, that every girl must be honoured just to be gawked at by them and so on and so forth.

Well, for starters, bodybuilding isn't a sport.

Also, what are we talking about here, specifically? People use "Bodybuilding" as a catch-all sort of term, but like competitive bodybuilding? I know nothing about that and find the physiques repulsive. Sorry to cause some confusion there.

And yeah, lots of kids are getting into this stuff, mainly as a way to just get attention. They jump right on drugs that mommy and daddy unknowingly pay for, and then realize once they are "Swole" that girls don't find it attractive at all.

I've already gone into great detail over this, but for me, I'd rather focus on looking good, because I have nothing else to really offer the fairer sex, and I'm hardly a "pretty boy". Genetically, I'm not built to move super heavy weight, I have tiny joints, and long, lanky limbs, nor have I really cared about my lifting totals. I don't bash "powerlifters" (again, even this term gets misused) unless they throw the first stone and claim that having high lifting totals is all that matters, all the while fretting about how they are 25% bodyfat and don't want to diet because they won't hit their next PR, or whatever. I only ever call out that hypocrisy.

So in short, I'm not quite sure what you are trying to defend, because I never said that exceptions to the rule don't exist.

Is bodybuilding really popular nowadays? I thought it was always a cult thing that catered primarily to homosexual adult men.

Many still consider bodybuilding to be a strength sport, especially when you consider its roots. Yes, it is an anomaly among those sports as today it is based entirely on aesthetics rather than combined with feats of strength, but many continue to consider it as falling within the strength sport category.



I think part of the issue with it being used as a "catch-all" as you put it, is again because bodybuilding has certainly changed over time, not to mention that its philosophy and culture has historically been intertwined with that of other performance-based strength sports. When I'm talking about bodybuilding here, I'm talking about bodybuilding in the competitive and amateur sense, but also the "lifestyle" that has, especially, been surrounding it over the last 15-20 years. It's fair to say that at this point in its evolution, bodybuilding is not simply about competing whether professionally or at the amateur level, but about certain training and nutritional philosophies, in addition to the sub-culture that has been rising up around it (from the non-competitive perspective) since the early 00s. Not to mention the supplement industry that has also risen up around it and has come to heavily tap into that growing sub-culture (as well as contribute heavily to creating it).



To be clear, my post wasn't a jab at you or anyone in this thread who takes interest in bodybuilding (whether in the sense of using its training/nutritional methods or competitively). I was mainly trying to comment on what you'd been saying about what you see as a common phenomenon whether among powerlifters or a certain youth/young adult demographic that has become interested in powerlifting/powerlifting programs. I was wanting to comment on the perspective that there's this tendency among powerlifters generally to bash bodybuilding, that they are always trying to show off or spout their totals as though it's all that matters. Basically just wanted to comment that when this bashing does occur, I do think it is reactionary toward the mentality many have encountered in bodybuilding. Specifically when you consider the comparative sizes of the communities. In some ways, powerlifting/strongman/oly lifting are the metal/punk to bodybuilding's mainstream hip hop or pop music if that makes any sense. So just as some people in the metal community sometimes react defensively to certain aspects of mainstream music culture that they see as frivolous, you have the same thing happening there. At least from my perspective. Maybe not the best comparison, but figured it might help get the point across. At this stage bodybuilding is infinitely more popular than powerlifting, strongman or olympic lifting combined. When it comes to strength sports and knowledge thereof among the general public, bodybuilding is all the North American public, especially, generally knows. You can see this with the way sites like bodybuilding.com have exploded the last while from a niche site to a go-to site for supplements and articles about health and fitness more generally. It tends to promote a perspective that the most important thing is how a person looks and that success will somehow follow in life as a result, that a particular physique is the ideal for whatever gender one happens to be, that there are only a handful of legitimate ways to train in order to achieve this "ideal" etc.



I'm not sure if you're joking or not with that bolded part, but is that kind of thing really necessary?

Anyway, bodybuilding is, indeed, very popular these days, not to mention that it's basic training and nutritional principles are those most promoted by trainers in popular gym chains. Bodybuilding.com has played a huge role in that as well as supplement companies, mainly by promoting a particular lifestyle vision and "every man" approach that is now telling people that you don't need to be a Ronnie Coleman to be a bodybuilder. That it's for single mothers, busy business people and grandpas too. I'm not really in the know, but Men's Physique has quickly risen in popularity, which might reflect this kind of "every man" approach that's more and more dominant these days rather than watching in awe at the bodybuilding heavyweights.

I see a lot of teens and early 20-somethings as well as a growing number of 30-40 somethings becoming interested in it from the lifestyle/sub-culture perspective. When I was in college it was popular, now it seems even more so. At the gym, most guys are training a basic bodybuilding split and just catching people's conversations it seems a lot of young guys are kind of spouting vague bbing concepts among each other whether to one-up each other or what. Not to mention the number of bodybuilding.com shirts/merch I see seems to be increasing by the year, both at the gym and in public. Also there tends to be much more people showing up to IFBB/bodybuilding/physique shows in town while powerlifting meets generally remain small.

Anyways after all this, just for me to repeat my initial intention: it was basically just to give my thoughts why this reaction by some in powerlifting communities against bodybuilding exists and also the scale at which this "bashing" actually occurs (which I believe is relatively small).

The way I've observed it, it is almost like the fitness craze of the '80s is coming around again, as per the cyclical nature of these things, but today's "gimme" society with zero patience or work ethic isn't fit to really handle it in the same way. This is why there is such an obsession with "drug talk" in the online communities. If it isn't your average gym rat seriously talking about running a gram+ of gear even though he has no intention to compete in any strength-related field, it is the "Generation nothingness" teenagers who just name drop drugs, or try and act like they are "in the know" just because they feel it is a requirement to be respected. These are the people who tweet every workout that they are "Going to war with the weights!" These are also the same people who idolize that "DLB" Dana Bailey character and her boyfriend. I appreciate your input here, of course.



No, I wasn't joking. I think it is necessary to understand why some of us aren't interested in hopping up on stage in a thong. I share another message board with national level competitors, and even at that level, a lot of the fledgling bodybuilders have to more or less sell themselves to be able to afford the drug stack required to even have a hope of competing at the high level. Pretty crazy shit.

I'd consider bodybuilding to be more of an art than a sport. There's physical activity involved and perhaps some level of competition, but the standards of being considered a "superior" bodybuilder to an adversary is way too nebulous. The judging criteria reminds me of dog show semantics, and I certainly don't consider dog shows to be a sport.

I definitely think your comparison with the 80's fitness craze is accurate. Now with social media and a much more voyeuristic culture where people are taking pictures of every meal and every moment I think it's definitely reached an all-time high and will carry on for much longer. It also means there's a ton more money to be made where industry stakeholders are concerned, and they know how to keep fueling that craze. Basic bodybuilding training/nutrition is definitely one of the front runners in that craze and for a reason, along with crossfit, plus of course the usual yoga, zumba etc depending on the target demographic. Not to mention some of the new "functional training" trends that come out with new "revolutionary" equipment every second day. At least I've never come across an abundance of people running Texas Method or a Sheiko program in regular gyms anyway. A basic bodybuilding split and more cursory understanding of nutrition (perpetually cutting/bulking, considering 4+ meals per day as necessity, the mythical "protein window," excusing every McDonald's meal as a dirty bulk etc.) seems to be the default despite that competition is not even a blip in the mind of 99% of those types.

Also agree with you on the name dropping and following these types of internet sensations. My impression is that most people at any given time aren't going to remain dedicated over the long-term, no matter how much personal trainers or fitness sites/mags peddle the "lifestyle change" line (especially as long as stricter regimens are pushed rather than a more realistic balance...then again setting people up for failure is also a money-maker in that industry). You could relate it to work ethic or instant gratification, but I think the reality is that for most people it's not compatible. No matter the sport or activity, at their most basic these things are hobbies/interests that not everyone will share. Because of that it's not really a priority for many, at least enough to have them scheduling their day around a strict routine. But like you say, for a lot of young guys its more about the status or gaining a certain image by looking like they know what they're saying than anything else, when in reality they might not naturally be interested in the activity or sport at all beyond the image/respect factor.

Wow, yeah. Those are great points. Guess we have alienated everyone else from the thread. Oops!

I have searched in regards to little bit around the internet because of this, but We figured I would aswell inquire here as well: Does anyone else discover that hard workout needs you to rest greater than typical? I often have to sleep a lot more than others, yet recently I devote a particularly hard workout and discovered which i slept a good 16 time that night time. I imagine that is particularly because of just how shitty my personal heart is usually from cigarette smoking and becoming generally sluggish. I've stop smoking and was attempting to jog following classes of heavy raising. I wonder if that may you need to be too damn much for the present time, or at least easily might recover easier in the future.

I would stick to body weight exercises and light cardio once and for all 4-6 months before shifting to heavy weights. Are you attempting to gain excess weight or suffer the loss?

Yes, you obviously need more rest. I've always been a heavy sleeper, but at the same time, exercising helped in having more regular sleep cycles. I always had hard time working with 24 hour days (I would stay up later and later all the time, with almost 27 hour days), but with regular exercise, I was able to fall asleep earlier due to fatigue.

Anyone will tell you that fitness is more than just exercise. Food and rest are two equally important parts of the whole.