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MacMoney
Man of the Cloth

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 10:17 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:01 am 
 

Woolie_Wool wrote:
MacMoney wrote:
Maibocks are nothing like the three other type of bocks you mentioned. Really, weizenbocks - as well as eisbocks, which are supposedly just frozen weizenbocks - have nothing to do with the regular bocks except the strength. They're brewed with top-fermenting wheat ale yeast while regular bocks are made with bottom-fermenting yeast and are lagered.

I would think the wheat malt used in weizenbocks would be an even bigger difference..


Well, naturally, but I suppose I assumed that was a given and not worth a mention, though the yeast does play a very big part in it, and well, the yeast and the lagering (as well as the generous use of malt) is what makes bock bock.

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Earthcubed
Peregrinus sine aetate

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:59 pm 
 

The confusion regarding the relationship between "weizenbock" and all other bock beer is the primary reason I prefer the other word for that style of beer, doppelweizen ("double wheat"). It is both a less confusing and more accurate way of describing the style.

As for non-hoppy brown ales, try Goose Island Nut Brown Ale. It should be readily available and pretty cheap by craft beer standards. Very malty, not very hoppy.



I would like to take this time to reiterate that while I generally enjoy hoppy pale ales and am neutral towards hoppy black ales/stouts/porters, I see absolutely no point whatsoever in ruining English brown ales by making them hoppy. In other words, I dislike a great many American brown ales.
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Evangelion2014
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 2:59 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:43 pm 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
The confusion regarding the relationship between "weizenbock" and all other bock beer is the primary reason I prefer the other word for that style of beer, doppelweizen ("double wheat"). It is both a less confusing and more accurate way of describing the style.

As for non-hoppy brown ales, try Goose Island Nut Brown Ale. It should be readily available and pretty cheap by craft beer standards. Very malty, not very hoppy.



I would like to take this time to reiterate that while I generally enjoy hoppy pale ales and am neutral towards hoppy black ales/stouts/porters, I see absolutely no point whatsoever in ruining English brown ales by making them hoppy. In other words, I dislike a great many American brown ales.


I would, but Goose Island got bought out by budweiser and I don't like sending my money to the people behind shock top and bud light. I did have smuttynose's brown ale the other day, and that was very good, malty with just enough of a hop bite to cleanse the taste. And I agree with your sentiment for the most part on american brown ales. If I want to taste hops, I want to get smacked over the head by them and I'll go for ruination, or have a beer who's malt can stand up to the hops (Imperial stouts, barleywines). Too much hops, unless used very well ruins the delicate, toasted flavor of brown ales.

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Grave_Wyrm
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Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:07 am 
 

I'm drinking what will likely be my last Stella Artois. Why does anyone like this beer? Do they, even? It smells weird (like lager that's had the cooler ice mixed into it and has been sitting too close to the hand soap), is weak as hell, and the taste is sadly but mercifully short-lived because the sweetness is not pleasurable. A very disappointing beer.

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Evangelion2014
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:45 am 
 

Grave_Wyrm wrote:
I'm drinking what will likely be my last Stella Artois. Why does anyone like this beer? Do they, even? It smells weird (like lager that's had the cooler ice mixed into it and has been sitting too close to the hand soap), is weak as hell, and the taste is sadly but mercifully short-lived because the sweetness is not pleasurable. A very disappointing beer.


It's owned by abinbev. So many seemingly independent breweries are secretly owned by the big 3 (miller, coors, budweiser):https://www.msu.edu/~howardp/beerownership.html

I'm puzzled exactly to what their target market is? People who want to drink fancy beer but don't know about what the rest of belgium has to offer? My best guiness would be the heineken market; those want something 'exotic/imported' but familiar.

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MacMoney
Man of the Cloth

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:11 am 
 

Evangelion2014 wrote:
It's owned by abinbev. So many seemingly independent breweries are secretly owned by the big 3 (miller, coors, budweiser):https://www.msu.edu/~howardp/beerownership.html

I'm puzzled exactly to what their target market is? People who want to drink fancy beer but don't know about what the rest of belgium has to offer? My best guiness would be the heineken market; those want something 'exotic/imported' but familiar.


Seemingly independent? I thought it was common knowledge - among the uncaring rabble - that Stella is a big, corporate beer. Don't think there's anything secret about it. While I personally don't mind it, it's a bit sneakier when they do it through established craft breweries (the aforementioned Goose Island) or start their own product line that advertises itself as craft beer rather than mass-produced beer. But let's not get into that. It's a can of worms.

The target of Stella? It's a premium brand lager from a fairly small country so the people who don't want to drink the 'local swill'.

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Azmodes
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:17 am 
 

"Bocks", haha. Gotta love that plural.

I had a Gulden Draak the other day. Pretty sweet and hearty, also strong (>10%). Good stuff.
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Woolie_Wool
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:24 pm 
 

Evangelion2014 wrote:
It's owned by abinbev.


I felt crushed when I learned last year that anytime I bought a 6-pack of Spaten my money was going to InBev.
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:26 pm 
 

Very nice bottle, Az.

I'm drinking this, it's not good. Don't buy it. (not my pic btw)
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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:31 pm 
 

Roger that.

edit: I just drank 5 of these.
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I post it because I didn't expect much and ended up really enjoying it. After the first pint I just kept at it. While it isn't a wig-blaster, it's a very stable experience. Mid-malt with mid-hops, light enough to go down easy, but thick enough to hit a stride at a steady sipping. Has an even body, and goes as well with food as alone (which I think was my favorite part). Had a pulled pork sandwich, but it would have been fine with the chicken caesar. I spent several hours catching up with old friends, and left neither heavily intoxicated nor dissatisfied. Just a well-rounded, tasty beer I look forward to coming around to again. A sturdy amber-ish pale ale with a touch of the tart red. If you see these, buy several.

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Earthcubed
Peregrinus sine aetate

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:51 am 
 

It's also the only balanced beer they make, so it has that going for it.
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Evangelion2014
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 2:59 am
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:50 pm 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
It's also the only balanced beer they make, so it has that going for it.


Making over the top beers is what they go for so you can't fault them for succeeding. Their barleywine, imperial stout and double ipa are some of my favorite beers. But check out levitation ale; that one isn't hugely over the top.

Metantoine wrote:
Very nice bottle, Az.

I'm drinking this, it's not good. Don't buy it. (not my pic btw)
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Already not buying pilsners so I'm in no danger of that. Am I the only person every that can't stand pilsners? The saaz hops and the strange malt bill don't agree with me at all yet tons of people are clamoring about how refreshing and easy drinking they are. Go figure, I love imperial stouts and 2xipas but can't stand most pilnsers. The only one I can tolerate is oskar blue's mama's lil pils.

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Woolie_Wool
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:46 pm 
 

What sort of pilsners do you drink? If you're drinking American adjunct "pilsner" of course it's going to be shit. If Warsteiner Premium Verum is available in your area I'd suggest you try that.
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Evangelion2014
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:31 pm 
 

Nah, I don't think that miller lite has 'great pilsner taste'. Those are adjunct lagers, not pilsners, i've had prima pils, harpoon big bohemian pilsner, and sierra nevada's beer camp #43 imperial pilsner.

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MacMoney
Man of the Cloth

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 10:17 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:28 am 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
It's also the only balanced beer they make, so it has that going for it.


Well, mayhaps we have different tastes or different definitions of balanced, but I found the IPA pretty balanced as well. Sure, it's hopped up to the max, but not too much for the ABV or the malt bill. Same goes for Old Guardian. Levitation is pretty balanced too.

Evangelion2014 wrote:
Nah, I don't think that miller lite has 'great pilsner taste'. Those are adjunct lagers, not pilsners, i've had prima pils, harpoon big bohemian pilsner, and sierra nevada's beer camp #43 imperial pilsner.


Well, I definitely wouldn't draw imperial pilsners into discussion about pilsners, because really, they're not the same thing at all. As for whether you like pilsners or not, you'd have to try some German and Czech classics, I think, rather than the American versions. I can't really say this or that about the American ones, since I'm not sure if I've ever tried one - and definitely haven't tried one fresh as far as I remember - but as far as I've gathered, most crafts use more of the American hopping style, while in my view, the continental noble hops are a must if you want to make a proper, classic tasting pilsner.

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Earthcubed
Peregrinus sine aetate

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:16 am 
 

MacMoney wrote:
Earthcubed wrote:
It's also the only balanced beer they make, so it has that going for it.


Well, mayhaps we have different tastes or different definitions of balanced, but I found the IPA pretty balanced as well. Sure, it's hopped up to the max, but not too much for the ABV or the malt bill. Same goes for Old Guardian. Levitation is pretty balanced too.



I'll give you the IPA. Haven't and likely won't bother with Levitation as I don't care for the style even when it is allegedly sweet.



Old Guardian can be interesting and I do like the recent smoked wheatwine version, but I think I've had maybe one vintage so far that actually tasted like a barleywine (2009, and that was after it was two years old---and it still tasted like a fresh American barleywine). It's arguably more emblematic of Stone's (in my opinion) problem than even Ruination. I don't mind over the top hops, but Stone's base beers are usually too dry by themselves even without taking into account how hoppy they are.

I'll give them credit though. I'm convinced Old Guardian won't really change that much until 4 or 5 years of aging, largely because of Stone's insane skill with hop retention. It's part of the reason I don't understand the hype behind the "Enjoy By..." beers they make. The eight month old Old Guardian 2011 I had back then was just as hoppy as fresh Founders Devil Dancer, for example. I'm pretty sure at some point I've had six month old Ruination that was hoppier than fresh ____ IPA (insert whatever brand you want).
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MacMoney
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:47 am 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
I'll give you the IPA. Haven't and likely won't bother with Levitation as I don't care for the style even when it is allegedly sweet.


What's wrong with amber ales?

Quote:
Old Guardian can be interesting and I do like the recent smoked wheatwine version, but I think I've had maybe one vintage so far that actually tasted like a barleywine (2009, and that was after it was two years old---and it still tasted like a fresh American barleywine). It's arguably more emblematic of Stone's (in my opinion) problem than even Ruination. I don't mind over the top hops, but Stone's base beers are usually too dry by themselves even without taking into account how hoppy they are.


Well, I can't say I'm an expert on beers American, but I've had hoppier and dryer barley wines over here than the Old Guardian. Or maybe not hoppier... But ones that are drier and less balanced. Though barley wine at its original stylings is quite unbalanced as it is. The malt and sweetness and alcohol tend to dominate. The ones that throw in some hops usually end up with at least a bit more balance or at least enjoyability. Maybe Old Guardian is on the stronger end of the hoppiness, but it's got a lot of alcohol and caramel malt there as well to balance it all up. Or so I remember it.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure at some point I've had six month old Ruination that was hoppier than fresh ____ IPA (insert whatever brand you want).


Funnily enough, I had the regular IPA and Ruination just recently (Yeah, they're rare and expensive around here) and while the IPA was a perhaps a week or two fresher, it tasted a lot better, a lot more bitter and a lot hoppier than the Ruination.

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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:25 pm 
 

Ruination needs to be really fresh, it loses its edge quickly. It's hard enough to get it fresh on the east coast of the USA.

I have been finding Brooklyn Monster Ale (barleywine) in a few places recently - while it's OK fresh, it's a bit harsh and it mellows out and at 2-3 years old it is absolutely delicious. I found a four pack of it for $6.99 yesterday, from 2011 - hell of a bargain for that!

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Evangelion2014
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 2:59 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:10 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
Ruination needs to be really fresh, it loses its edge quickly. It's hard enough to get it fresh on the east coast of the USA.

I have been finding Brooklyn Monster Ale (barleywine) in a few places recently - while it's OK fresh, it's a bit harsh and it mellows out and at 2-3 years old it is absolutely delicious. I found a four pack of it for $6.99 yesterday, from 2011 - hell of a bargain for that!


I'll have to try an older version I've only had it fresh and to me it tastes more like a malty DIPA than a barleywine, and for a malty Ipa i'd rather just grab devil dancer or hoppin' frog hop dam. I can actually normally get fresh ruination at my local wegmans, at most a week old and I'm in eastern PA.

MacMoney wrote:
Earthcubed wrote:
It's also the only balanced beer they make, so it has that going for it.


Well, mayhaps we have different tastes or different definitions of balanced, but I found the IPA pretty balanced as well. Sure, it's hopped up to the max, but not too much for the ABV or the malt bill. Same goes for Old Guardian. Levitation is pretty balanced too.

Evangelion2014 wrote:
Nah, I don't think that miller lite has 'great pilsner taste'. Those are adjunct lagers, not pilsners, i've had prima pils, harpoon big bohemian pilsner, and sierra nevada's beer camp #43 imperial pilsner.


Well, I definitely wouldn't draw imperial pilsners into discussion about pilsners, because really, they're not the same thing at all. As for whether you like pilsners or not, you'd have to try some German and Czech classics, I think, rather than the American versions. I can't really say this or that about the American ones, since I'm not sure if I've ever tried one - and definitely haven't tried one fresh as far as I remember - but as far as I've gathered, most crafts use more of the American hopping style, while in my view, the continental noble hops are a must if you want to make a proper, classic tasting pilsner.


I actually wouldn't mind an american hop bill in a pilsner, because that's apparently what Prima Pils was but I didn't taste the expect citrus, grapefruit or pine notes, instead it was a weird slightly spicy (saaz?) hop taste that I didn't care for. I will try some of the actual german versions though what do you suggest? My knowledge in beer is more or less limited to high abv flavor bombs.

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Colerne
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:07 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:15 pm 
 

I'm a big fan of UK breweries Wychwood and Bristol Beer Factory.

I went over to the States for a few weeks once, for work. I was "warned" that the beer would be crap, but I stayed in Madison and was very impressed by the beer culture there. The Great Dane pub/brewery was fantastic!

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Woolie_Wool
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:25 pm 
 

I don't understand what people see in the "American hopping style"; it has little subtlety and makes beer taste like grapefruit juice (especially Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA, which was one of the most unpleasant beverages I've ever tried that was not an adjunct lager). Just take, say, Saranac Black Forest Lager and Einbecker Schwarzbier side by side and it's obvious the German beer is much more balanced and interesting flavor profile whereas the Saranac is more HEY WE HAVE SOME HOPS IN YOUR FACE.
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MacMoney
Man of the Cloth

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 10:17 pm
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:24 am 
 

Evangelion2014 wrote:
I actually wouldn't mind an american hop bill in a pilsner, because that's apparently what Prima Pils was but I didn't taste the expect citrus, grapefruit or pine notes, instead it was a weird slightly spicy (saaz?) hop taste that I didn't care for. I will try some of the actual german versions though what do you suggest? My knowledge in beer is more or less limited to high abv flavor bombs.


Huh, well, Saaz really is supposed to bring a grassy and slightly herbal flavor instead of spicy, though I suppose the distinction is up to the person. As for good German pilseners, well, I doubt the best ones I'm aware of get imported to the US, but the likes of Gänstaller-Brau Pils, Keesmann Bamberger Herren Pils, Distelhäuser Premium Pils (the Germans would kill me if they saw this), Mahr's Bräu Pilsner, Fässla Gold Pils, Wilde Rose Pils. The ones you might actually find there are not as special, more fined down for the average (German) consumer, the likes of König, Kaiserdom or Paulaner. All decent if nothing on the aforementioned. Aside from that, there's also the Kulmbacher Mönchshof-brand beers which might or might not be better available, but with good quality, especially the Kellerbier - theirs being mostly an unfiltered pilsner - which is good. Oh, and of course, Pilsner Urquell is most definitely available there, though of course, it's of the Czech rather than the German style.

Woolie_Wool wrote:
I don't understand what people see in the "American hopping style"; it has little subtlety and makes beer taste like grapefruit juice (especially Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA, which was one of the most unpleasant beverages I've ever tried that was not an adjunct lager). Just take, say, Saranac Black Forest Lager and Einbecker Schwarzbier side by side and it's obvious the German beer is much more balanced and interesting flavor profile whereas the Saranac is more HEY WE HAVE SOME HOPS IN YOUR FACE.


I don't know what kind of grapefruit juice you've been drinking, but while "American hopping style" can go quite overboard with the hopping sometimes, at least American breweries tend to throw in a lot of malt as well so the beers end up quite sweet and malty as well. I've had the 90 Minute IPA and it was much too sweet for my taste. I'm not in the up and up of exactly what kind of flavors each and every hop that American breweries like to use brings, but there's a distinction between grapefruit, pine as well as lemon. I really like the former two, juice or not, while the lemony one (Sweetwater's 420 comes to mind) is just not palatable. And of course, that all seems to be a bit passé now with Australian and New Zealand hops coming to the forefront with new flavors. As I've mentioned before, I've not really tasted a lot of the American craft lager (just not that well available over the pond), but I tend to agree that I would probably prefer my German-style lagers with German-style hoppings, even if I wouldn't mind if they used more of the stuff than they tend to do.

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Evangelion2014
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:31 am 
 

MacMoney wrote:
Evangelion2014 wrote:
I actually wouldn't mind an american hop bill in a pilsner, because that's apparently what Prima Pils was but I didn't taste the expect citrus, grapefruit or pine notes, instead it was a weird slightly spicy (saaz?) hop taste that I didn't care for. I will try some of the actual german versions though what do you suggest? My knowledge in beer is more or less limited to high abv flavor bombs.


Huh, well, Saaz really is supposed to bring a grassy and slightly herbal flavor instead of spicy, though I suppose the distinction is up to the person. As for good German pilseners, well, I doubt the best ones I'm aware of get imported to the US, but the likes of Gänstaller-Brau Pils, Keesmann Bamberger Herren Pils, Distelhäuser Premium Pils (the Germans would kill me if they saw this), Mahr's Bräu Pilsner, Fässla Gold Pils, Wilde Rose Pils. The ones you might actually find there are not as special, more fined down for the average (German) consumer, the likes of König, Kaiserdom or Paulaner. All decent if nothing on the aforementioned. Aside from that, there's also the Kulmbacher Mönchshof-brand beers which might or might not be better available, but with good quality, especially the Kellerbier - theirs being mostly an unfiltered pilsner - which is good. Oh, and of course, Pilsner Urquell is most definitely available there, though of course, it's of the Czech rather than the German style.

Woolie_Wool wrote:
I don't understand what people see in the "American hopping style"; it has little subtlety and makes beer taste like grapefruit juice (especially Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA, which was one of the most unpleasant beverages I've ever tried that was not an adjunct lager). Just take, say, Saranac Black Forest Lager and Einbecker Schwarzbier side by side and it's obvious the German beer is much more balanced and interesting flavor profile whereas the Saranac is more HEY WE HAVE SOME HOPS IN YOUR FACE.


I don't know what kind of grapefruit juice you've been drinking, but while "American hopping style" can go quite overboard with the hopping sometimes, at least American breweries tend to throw in a lot of malt as well so the beers end up quite sweet and malty as well. I've had the 90 Minute IPA and it was much too sweet for my taste. I'm not in the up and up of exactly what kind of flavors each and every hop that American breweries like to use brings, but there's a distinction between grapefruit, pine as well as lemon. I really like the former two, juice or not, while the lemony one (Sweetwater's 420 comes to mind) is just not palatable. And of course, that all seems to be a bit passé now with Australian and New Zealand hops coming to the forefront with new flavors. As I've mentioned before, I've not really tasted a lot of the American craft lager (just not that well available over the pond), but I tend to agree that I would probably prefer my German-

style lagers with German-style hoppings, even if I wouldn't mind if they used more of the stuff than they tend to do.


Maybe It wasn't saaz, but it did have a weird herbal spicness. Also, The american craft scene is actually really, really varied, but you might not get everything around in finland. There's ommegang, who specialize in belgian style beers without an ipa in sight, tons of my favorite style, imperial stout without any hop prescense, some good american scotch ales, yard's brewery who mostly tackles english session beers, and even german style lagers. Though I'll concede I don't understand putting assloads of hops in styles which don't need them (brown ales for example).

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MacMoney
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 10:17 pm
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:28 am 
 

Evangelion2014 wrote:
Also, The american craft scene is actually really, really varied, but you might not get everything around in finland. There's ommegang, who specialize in belgian style beers without an ipa in sight, tons of my favorite style, imperial stout without any hop prescense, some good american scotch ales, yard's brewery who mostly tackles english session beers, and even german style lagers. Though I'll concede I don't understand putting assloads of hops in styles which don't need them (brown ales for example).


Yeah, I know it is very varied and that a lot of the breweries specialize in certain style of brewing as well as regional variations and all that. I'm very inclined to travel around the country, visiting the different states and trying different brews at the source. But probably just a dream I'll never get a chance to realize.

As for the hopping styles that don't need it, I suppose it's just wanting to try new things and some people liking that. I'm not too keen on brown ales in general - though I must admit I haven't really tried that many - but Lagunitas's WTF did the hoppy brown pretty well, I think.

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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:56 am 
 

Had a very tasty Mountain Goats Amber Ale recently- recommend it to everyone if they can find it. It's kinda like a nicely hoppy American IPA style without tasting like you're eating a pinecone, mixed with the mellower, maltier (I think? I used to spend a retarded amount on beer, but I never got really articulate on what's what) strains of the amber. It's honestly one of the nicest beers I've had in a long time. The closest comparison would be something like a Sierra Torpedo but with the hoppiness super balanced. Super worth everyone's time, if you can find it.

Other drinks of late, the old workhouse Little Creatures Pale Ale (definitely the best easily available beer in WA, hugely delicious imo), Cooper's Best Extra Stout- got a carton for winter, if winter arrives, lovely beer and I'm always surprised at how such a strong, black beer sells so well, and a heap of Stoke Brothers' Kiwi Pale Ale. There's like 100 of them at the local store gathering dust, they just get cheaper and cheaper ($4 a longneck!!) which is bizarre as it's a really nice Pale Ale, whatever hops it has they're quite unique as it's quite a unique citrus-y touch to it. Super well balanced.

Miss the days when I could spend $200 on beer a week :(
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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:58 am 
 

Incidentally, I have a huge hard on for retardedly hoppy IPA's at the mo, so if any has some that are relatively easy to get, recommend them. They seem to be a huge trend over here. Had a Feral Hop Hog today which was delicious, albeit the sort of thing that a retard with a dumptruck of hops could make, haha.
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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:45 pm 
 

caspian wrote:
Miss the days when I could spend $200 on beer a week :(

That's a lot of both.

I'm not a big IPA fan, so I'll recommend the ones that actually stand out to me. Not knowing what's available in Australia makes this difficult, but I'll "try", hopefully. Drake's is the first that comes to mind. It's sharp and straight forward. If you can find it, try Eye of the Hawk. It isn't an IPA on paper, but a really hoppy, STRONG ALE from Mendocino Brewing co. Definite bang for your buck with that one. Racer 5 is WAAAY too hoppy for me, so that might be something interesting. Not the most flavorful, but easy to come by. Lagunitas IPA is the one I have more often with tacos, but that might be a bit mild for you. Tasty, though.

Also, I turned up this BeerAdvocate ranking list that would prove helpful when you're at the store. You could even take a clipboard!
http://beeradvocate.com/lists/style/116

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Evangelion2014
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:49 pm 
 

MacMoney wrote:
Evangelion2014 wrote:
Also, The american craft scene is actually really, really varied, but you might not get everything around in finland. There's ommegang, who specialize in belgian style beers without an ipa in sight, tons of my favorite style, imperial stout without any hop prescense, some good american scotch ales, yard's brewery who mostly tackles english session beers, and even german style lagers. Though I'll concede I don't understand putting assloads of hops in styles which don't need them (brown ales for example).


Yeah, I know it is very varied and that a lot of the breweries specialize in certain style of brewing as well as regional variations and all that. I'm very inclined to travel around the country, visiting the different states and trying different brews at the source. But probably just a dream I'll never get a chance to realize.

As for the hopping styles that don't need it, I suppose it's just wanting to try new things and some people liking that. I'm not too keen on brown ales in general - though I must admit I haven't really tried that many - but Lagunitas's WTF did the hoppy brown pretty well, I think.


Was talking to Wooly_Wool :P

Had this awesome sour ale a few days ago. A blast of cherry/berry sourness, then just enough sweet and sour sauce style sweetness on the finish. Picture/blog isn't mine.

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Woolie_Wool
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:10 pm 
 

I'm American, not Finnish, so the selection of US craft beers where I live is pretty broad (the German dark lagers I like, though, have a very narrow selection, most of which are doppelbocks).

Especially now that beer distribution in my city is handled by motherfucking Budweiser. It's like a desert for decent foreign beer, except for Belgian ales.
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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:47 pm 
 

Grave_Wyrm wrote:
Also, I turned up this BeerAdvocate ranking list that would prove helpful when you're at the store. You could even take a clipboard!
http://beeradvocate.com/lists/style/116


Link doesn't work :(

Stores here are pretty pitiful. There's one specialist beer store but it's 2.5 hours away from me. The local giant megastore has about 30 or so beers available, and while that's fairly nice for aus i've tried them all a few hundred times. I'll give drake a crack though, for sure.. Might try ordering it online.
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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:52 pm 
 

Blast! If it's mainstream at the store, you'll have a good chance catching the ones I mentioned. And Stone has an IPA which I've not tried, but got mentioned a little above. So Drakes and Stone are likely to be the "best" in my opinion, but the others won't steer you wrong.

What about this one?
http://www.beerpal.com/vault/topbeer2.asp?styleID=20

Probably more likely to overlap your selection?

[+} and hopefully someone who actually likes IPAs will help out, since I've stayed away from a whole lot of em. :)

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Woolie_Wool
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:06 pm 
 

Brooklyn 25th Anniversary Lager is bitterly disappointing as I spent $15 on that bottle of citrus-flavored hop water when I could have spent the money on a six-pack of beer that doesn't suck donkey balls. I threw it out and now I'm drinking Lammsbrau Organic Dunkel.
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MacMoney
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:53 am 
 

Evangelion2014 wrote:
Was talking to Wooly_Wool :P


Ah, my bad.

Evangelion2014 wrote:
Had this awesome sour ale a few days ago. A blast of cherry/berry sourness, then just enough sweet and sour sauce style sweetness on the finish.


Love these Flemish reds; Rodenbach Grand Cru, Duchesse de Bourgogne and Queue de Charre Brune are my faves. Will have to hunt this one down as well.

Woolie_Wool wrote:
Brooklyn 25th Anniversary Lager is bitterly disappointing as I spent $15 on that bottle of citrus-flavored hop water when I could have spent the money on a six-pack of beer that doesn't suck donkey balls. I threw it out and now I'm drinking Lammsbrau Organic Dunkel.


One must wonder: Why? It's like spending the money on Transformers 3 when you've already hated 2 and 1 or buying the latest In Flames even though you've hated the band for the past five albums. If you know you're gonna hate it, why go through the trouble and throw the money away?

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CrushedRevelation
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:47 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:28 am 
 

caspian wrote:
Incidentally, I have a huge hard on for retardedly hoppy IPA's at the mo, so if any has some that are relatively easy to get, recommend them. They seem to be a huge trend over here. Had a Feral Hop Hog today which was delicious, albeit the sort of thing that a retard with a dumptruck of hops could make, haha.


Mountain Goat dark IPA is where it's at. That's a great drop.

As for IPA's in general, try these if you can find them - Vale Ale IPA, FIGJAM IPA, Murry's Spartan, and Ballast Point big eye. These I have found relatively easily (the Vale and FIGJAM I've gotten from Woolworths bottle shops...), and they're all pretty damn tasty. I've also had that Feral Hop Hog, and thought it was great, but also rather... crude. Don't spose you have a Dan Murphy's near by?
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Evangelion2014
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:31 am 
 

Woolie_Wool wrote:
I'm American, not Finnish, so the selection of US craft beers where I live is pretty broad (the German dark lagers I like, though, have a very narrow selection, most of which are doppelbocks).

Especially now that beer distribution in my city is handled by motherfucking Budweiser. It's like a desert for decent foreign beer, except for Belgian ales.


Wow i'm getting everyone mixed up XD. Hey know any decent dark german lagers? I love eisbocks and doppelbocks, but don't know anything else that packs a punch.

MacMoney wrote:
Evangelion2014 wrote:
Was talking to Wooly_Wool :P


Ah, my bad.

Evangelion2014 wrote:
Had this awesome sour ale a few days ago. A blast of cherry/berry sourness, then just enough sweet and sour sauce style sweetness on the finish.


Love these Flemish reds; Rodenbach Grand Cru, Duchesse de Bourgogne and Queue de Charre Brune are my faves. Will have to hunt this one down as well.

Woolie_Wool wrote:
Brooklyn 25th Anniversary Lager is bitterly disappointing as I spent $15 on that bottle of citrus-flavored hop water when I could have spent the money on a six-pack of beer that doesn't suck donkey balls. I threw it out and now I'm drinking Lammsbrau Organic Dunkel.


One must wonder: Why? It's like spending the money on Transformers 3 when you've already hated 2 and 1 or buying the latest In Flames even though you've hated the band for the past five albums. If you know you're gonna hate it, why go through the trouble and throw the money away?


I've only had two other flemish reds, but they were both pretty good. First one is duchesse de bourgogne which is really more oddly sweet than anything, you have a really light tartless but on the back half you get a really interesting sweet soy sauce type taste. The other is leifmans goudenbrand, which is a moderately sour take on the style. Also, I love rodenbach, especially since it was bought by sapporo (But they haven't been bought by teh big 3 miller/coors/budweiser) it's a lot cheaper and still good. It only goes for $3.25 a bottle at the singles store I shop at. Tastes like sweet and sour sauce in liquid form actually. Speaking of belgian style stuff, try out the seasonal from river horse, belgian double wit, it's a 7.0% abv witbier which hits the refreshing but hearty range of beers like a saison does. Weird, I thought it was a doppelbock, citrus flavored hop water is way off for the style. Hey, we found another style hops don't belong in: doppelbocks!

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Earthcubed
Peregrinus sine aetate

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
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Location: Orocarni
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 7:18 am 
 

MacMoney wrote:

What's wrong with amber ales?


Well, if it is truly like an American amber ale, then I might give it a whack; those are almost too tame. I was under the impression that it was more analogous to an Irish red, however, and I've never had one I didn't fucking hate. I can't really explain why because there is a certain chemical byproduct of the malts used in most (seemingly all) Irish reds that only a minority of people can taste, and it's kind of hard for us to describe (I would say it tastes like an overly tannic piece of rotting bread). There were some semi-technical conversations in a thread on the compound on the old Beeradvocate.com before the great crash of 2011/12 wiped the board clean, that would have been where I'd direct you for more info.

Bottom line: virtually all Irish reds and American variations taste atrocious to me, and so do a minority of other beer styles which occasionally have similar malt profiles (certain IPA's and even barleywines).

Quote:
Well, I can't say I'm an expert on beers American, but I've had hoppier and dryer barley wines over here than the Old Guardian. Or maybe not hoppier... But ones that are drier and less balanced. Though barley wine at its original stylings is quite unbalanced as it is. The malt and sweetness and alcohol tend to dominate. The ones that throw in some hops usually end up with at least a bit more balance or at least enjoyability. Maybe Old Guardian is on the stronger end of the hoppiness, but it's got a lot of alcohol and caramel malt there as well to balance it all up. Or so I remember it.


I guess my other problem here is that a lot of barleywines don't really taste the way they are "supposed" to taste (the way people typically picture them when they read brewer descriptions) until they are two or more years old. So in my experience, "hoppy barleywines" generally don't taste much different from big malty double IPA's when fresh. I agree that in theory a hoppy barleywine could strike an interesting balance, but by the time the malt profile starts to taste like a barleywine the hops have usually faded.

Old Guardian varies a lot year to year but I've yet to have one fresh that really tasted like a barleywine. It tends to swing between a slightly maltier double IPA and an unbelievably boozy mess of a double IPA, depending on the batch (the 2011 fresh was..... :o ).

MacMoney wrote:

Woolie_Wool wrote:
I don't understand what people see in the "American hopping style"; it has little subtlety and makes beer taste like grapefruit juice (especially Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA, which was one of the most unpleasant beverages I've ever tried that was not an adjunct lager). Just take, say, Saranac Black Forest Lager and Einbecker Schwarzbier side by side and it's obvious the German beer is much more balanced and interesting flavor profile whereas the Saranac is more HEY WE HAVE SOME HOPS IN YOUR FACE.


I don't know what kind of grapefruit juice you've been drinking, but while "American hopping style" can go quite overboard with the hopping sometimes, at least American breweries tend to throw in a lot of malt as well so the beers end up quite sweet and malty as well. I've had the 90 Minute IPA and it was much too sweet for my taste.



Both of you guys need to try a fresh bottle or keg of Three Floyds Zombie Dust if you ever get the chance. You will never look at hoppy American beers the same way again (except to say you might find every example thereafter disappointing compared to Zombie Dust).

And Mac, 90 Minute is often fairly old and sweet when you see it on the shelves even in such exotic and far-away-from-the-brewery places as the American Midwest just a few states over; it has a reputation for falling off within weeks. Beyond that, Americans like to distinguish between West Coast and East Coast IPA's. The eastern ones are generally sweeter and maltier, the western ones are more overtly hoppy.


If you think 90 Minute is sweet, whatever you do, for the love of Odin avoid the 120 Minute IPA. That beer is straight up hop brandy. Sweet, bitter, boozy hop brandy. I've had rum that was drier and 80-proof whiskey that burned less.
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MacMoney
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 7:33 am 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
I guess my other problem here is that a lot of barleywines don't really taste the way they are "supposed" to taste (the way people typically picture them when they read brewer descriptions) until they are two or more years old. So in my experience, "hoppy barleywines" generally don't taste much different from big malty double IPA's when fresh. I agree that in theory a hoppy barleywine could strike an interesting balance, but by the time the malt profile starts to taste like a barleywine the hops have usually faded.

Old Guardian varies a lot year to year but I've yet to have one fresh that really tasted like a barleywine. It tends to swing between a slightly maltier double IPA and an unbelievably boozy mess of a double IPA, depending on the batch (the 2011 fresh was..... :o ).


Yeah, hoppier barley wines can end up tasting like DIPAs quite often, but I've yet to have that actually happen with American barley wines though the ones that get over here aren't exactly the freshest (though the Old Guardians have been of the vintage of the year I've consumed them), while the Finnish ones that have ended up tasting like DIPAs have been fresh.

Earthcubed wrote:
And Mac, 90 Minute is often fairly old and sweet when you see it on the shelves even in such exotic and far-away-from-the-brewery places as the American Midwest just a few states over; it has a reputation for falling off within weeks. Beyond that, Americans like to distinguish between West Coast and East Coast IPA's. The eastern ones are generally sweeter and maltier, the western ones are more overtly hoppy.

If you think 90 Minute is sweet, whatever you do, for the love of Odin avoid the 120 Minute IPA. That beer is straight up hop brandy. Sweet, bitter, boozy hop brandy. I've had rum that was drier and 80-proof whiskey that burned less.


The 90 Minute I had was off of a tap at The Ginger Man in NY so I imagine it was pretty fresh. Taps tend to rotate fairly quickly at the place. Yeah, I know the difference between West Coast and East Coast styles. It is rather remarkable, I tend to enjoy the West Coast better. I'm keen on trying 120 Minute, but I doubt I'll ever get the chance. Oh well... Then again, there's rarely a beer I'm not keen on trying at least once.

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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
Posts: 6099
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 10:20 am 
 

CrushedRevelation wrote:
caspian wrote:
Incidentally, I have a huge hard on for retardedly hoppy IPA's at the mo, so if any has some that are relatively easy to get, recommend them. They seem to be a huge trend over here. Had a Feral Hop Hog today which was delicious, albeit the sort of thing that a retard with a dumptruck of hops could make, haha.


Mountain Goat dark IPA is where it's at. That's a great drop.

As for IPA's in general, try these if you can find them - Vale Ale IPA, FIGJAM IPA, Murry's Spartan, and Ballast Point big eye. These I have found relatively easily (the Vale and FIGJAM I've gotten from Woolworths bottle shops...), and they're all pretty damn tasty. I've also had that Feral Hop Hog, and thought it was great, but also rather... crude. Don't spose you have a Dan Murphy's near by?


:lol: Yeah, I've had all of them except the figjam, which I'll try next time I see it at dan murphy's, haha. Wish we had an international beer shop near by, murphy's is cool but you run out of stuff pretty quick. Poor stout range too, lucky Best Extra Stout is such a easily available and tasty beast.

Mountain goat really impress imo, I've had three of their beers and they're probably my favourite australian brews.
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Zodijackyl
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Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 10:50 pm 
 

Woolie_Wool wrote:
I don't understand what people see in the "American hopping style"; it has little subtlety and makes beer taste like grapefruit juice (especially Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA, which was one of the most unpleasant beverages I've ever tried that was not an adjunct lager). Just take, say, Saranac Black Forest Lager and Einbecker Schwarzbier side by side and it's obvious the German beer is much more balanced and interesting flavor profile whereas the Saranac is more HEY WE HAVE SOME HOPS IN YOUR FACE.


Saranac is relatively cheap and mediocre beer. Don't let that turn you off from trying some better beers.

Drinking Lagunitas Little Sumpin' Sumpin' tonight, this beer never stops amazing me. It has a big punch of both hop and malt sweetness and despite the strength, such a beautiful floral and fruity aroma and taste. Oh, and PBR as the secondary beer, since it was super cheap at $7/12 cans and already cold.

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Woolie_Wool
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:44 pm 
 

Evangelion2014 wrote:
Woolie_Wool wrote:
I'm American, not Finnish, so the selection of US craft beers where I live is pretty broad (the German dark lagers I like, though, have a very narrow selection, most of which are doppelbocks).

Especially now that beer distribution in my city is handled by motherfucking Budweiser. It's like a desert for decent foreign beer, except for Belgian ales.


Wow i'm getting everyone mixed up XD. Hey know any decent dark german lagers? I love eisbocks and doppelbocks, but don't know anything else that packs a punch.


Dunkel lagers are generally no stronger than their helles equivalents; they just taste differently. The really strong ones are mostly some variant of bock. But here are some that I like:

Dunkel lager:
Spaten Munich Dunkel
Hofbrau Munchen Dunkel
Einbecker "Schwarzbier" (actually a dunkel, and labeled as such in Europe)
Krombacher Dark
Lammsbrau Organic Dunkel (excellent, but expensive)

Schwarzbier:
Dinkelacker Das Schwarze (my father told me that their basic helles lager used to be marketed in the US with the slogan "Drink a Dink!" which is in itself a good reason to try it)
Klostritzer Schwarzbier
Rogue Chatoe Dirtoir (not German, but holy fuckballs this is good)

Ur-bock (dark):
Einbecker Ur-Bock Dunkel
Weihenstephaner Korbinian

Maibock (amber, sometimes pale):
Einbecker Mai-Ur-Bock
Hofbrau Maibock
Schloss Eggenberg Urbock 23 (extremely strong, like a "doppelmaibock")

Doppelbocks:
Paulaner Salvator
Ayinger Celebrator
Spaten Optimator
Schloss Eggenberg Doppelbock Dunkel (very good, but very expensive)
Samuel Adams Double Bock (not German, but nails the style perfectly)
Einbecker Winter Bock

Highly concentrated liver destruction agent:
Schloss Eggenberg Samichlaus Classic/Samichlaus Helles (both 14% ABV--be careful!)

Best avoided:
Saranac Black Forest Lager (poor American imitation of a schwarzbier with a coarse, over-hopped flavor)
Brou Czech Dark (very cheap, and you get what you pay for)
Beck's Dark
Czechvar Dark (not that bad, but not that good)
Horny Goat Baby Got Bock (amusing label, but very loud, unbalanced flavor)
Moretti La Rossa (pretty wimpy flavor for a "doppelbock")
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