That's really interesting and not something I've really given much thought to. Even ten years ago or less it wasn't like that, but I would wager that the increase in amount and variation of TV shows, plus ease of accessibility with services such as Netflix, have made that occur.

I'm not as familiar with Star Trek as others here, but I am with a show like Seinfeld. It took 4 seasons before it became the hit that it was in the 90's. If that started in 2017, it would barely get through two seasons before being axed. I guess it puts more pressure on writers to release quality, but it's good for the consumer.

Yeah, exactly. Or how about The Simpsons? Season 1 was crap, season 2 was pretty good, but it didn't become great until season 3. Makes me wonder if the next potential Seinfeld or Simpsons or TNG got canceled before its time.

Totally. Didn't even think of The Simpsons. I guess we'll never know.

I don't think Firefly was anywhere near as good as TNG, but I do think it coulda been really good.

Yeah, that's how I've always felt about Firefly. It's good, but not amazing, but I definitely think it could've gotten flat out amazing had it had more time.

I think a potential counter-argument is also just taking the premise of a show into account. The early TNG seasons are weaker because of the over-presence of a few kind of lame characters, the lack of development of the better characters early on, and just generally weaker writing than what came later. The premise of the show, of course, was always solid. I haven't actually watched The Expanse yet but the premise alone sounds cool enough that I'd be willing to sit through a few average seasons before it started getting really good.

But a show like Bates Motel? I mean, if I'm not totally sold on the writing, acting, camera work, etc. right off the bat, why would I even continue to watch such a show? How good could a Bates Motel TV series ever possibly get? That's how I decide whether or not to continue watching a show that was kind of unimpressive early on - how good is the premise in the first place?

Yeah, the very premise of Bates Motel is just insulting as fuck.

And also-yeah, The Expanse is great fun and one of the best sci-fi shows to come along in a while. Volute saying "perhaps my standards are too high because I've been watching such quality series" has surpassed even darkeningday levels of pretentiousness.

I'm up to Community s6e7 and I finally laughed out loud

How am I pretentious. Because I don't see quality in Expanse when everyone else does? If you don't think there's a difference between A-Caliber movies and television then you're delusional, all facets of television are usually at a second rate with inconsistent episodes, average acting quality and sloppy directing except from some recent well-talked about well-beloved exclusions, some of which I already mentioned. I know it's fun for you to be all sniveling, snarky and bitchy when someone disagrees with you about one of your favourite tv shows but it's called a difference of opinion, grow up.

Firefly is better than your favourite show

Binged watched the new 24 episodes and the two subplots with the brother and the high school kids feel like filler. The twists got to the point where it's laughable, but it's still entertaining.

started watching The Americans

not 10 minutes in and already I see there's going to be some serious efforts at suspense of disbelief to be made.

you have a team of people who're ready to ambush a guy, you chase him for 10 blocks and he has time to pull a knife on you but you don't have so much as a taser or a baton to use? what shitty planning.

It wouldn't be 24 without filler subplots!

is this 24: Legacy you guys are talking about?

yep

Anyone seen Jeff and Some Aliens? Crazy fucking show, in the over the top vein of Mr Pickles, King Star King, Rick and Morty..

Pro tip: Get high as balls first.

It's been a while, but I thought Firefly at least bordered on great. Could have been one of the best shows out there, for sure.

Just finished watching all of Black Mirror. Fuck, what an interesting show. Find this a lot more scary than most actual horror stuff, because some of this could plausibly happen in 50 years. "White Christmas" was one of the best episodes I've ever seen of anything. The one where the British PM is forced to have sex with a pig in order for the kidnappers not to kill the princess was so fucked up. Overall, season 3 was the only season that was consistently amazing, but a few great episodes in the first two seasons. Some of the social media ones were maybe a tad preachy and forced, but the ones dealing with war/terrorism/crime and punishment were amazing.

White Christmas would've been much better without the stupid ending. Not the main twist - the ending for the American guy. It would've made much more sense and been much more in keeping with the tone of the series if the government people had given him a job. But no, they went with the stupid ironic punishment. It was a really good episode otherwise but that last part really soured it for me.

I'm on S1E8 of Dark Matter. The skeleton of a great show is there, the plot points and story beats fitting in nicely while leaving enough mystery to want to continue watching, but holy shit the dialogue is cringe-worthy "I am here and doing this" exposition crap.

It's mostly enjoyable for what it is. Trashy space adventure sci-fi, I dare say not too dumb, but nothing too subtle either.

That's a great way to put it. It's always very promising, like it almost has everything in gear to be something memorable, but then gets lazy on the finer details.

Season 2 of Dark Matter is borderline great, actually. Definitely worth putting up with the mediocre season 1 for, imho.

Seen 1 episode and it was so shitty! Not sure I want to watch the whole first season! It's on Netflix so, I might try again... Killjoys is pretty fun though and I've seen both seasons.

Currently watching Chef's Table, it's amazing. The images are spectacular and the chefs are super interesting. There's a good balance of assholes and cool people so far.

Yeah, almost as bad as 1 episode of TOS, TNG and DS9.

I'm not saying it's a masterpiece, but imho you can never have too many sci-fi shows not set on earth.


Maybe I should take my own advice though because I couldn't get through the first episode of Killjoys; felt like a typical CW show to me (i.e., worse than an inverted anal hematoma).

GTFO, Emissary was a great episode.

Love season 2 will appear on Netflix Friday, I think I'll watch it even if I had some reservations concerning season 1. I wanna know what happens.

Really? Really really? Hard not to be skeptical, I saw maybe 5 episodes of the first season.

I mean it's not some sort of masterpiece, it's a cheap Syfy original by two of the lead writers from the Stargate TV franchise, but for my money it's totally watchable. They literally kill off a good chunk of the main cast at the beginning of the second season, so it seems many people were not exactly blown away by the way the show started.

I also remember the first season getting interesting enough to be recommended only in the last few episodes.

Well, now that I know certain cast members are gone (and hopefully One/Jace/Derrick is included)...

S1 gets better as it moves along. Once Five starts to sort through their shared memories it starts picking up some steam, and I'd say that Four's focal episode, when he meets his old trainer on the forest planet, has been the best so far. If you're going to give it another shot, just have it on as background noise while you're reading/cleaning/etc. You'll be able to catch the major parts in passing.

Finished S1. Did not see the traitor coming, and I started up S2 to see why. It's a small letdown but at least it makes sense in the grand scheme. Also of note is the increased production value at the end of S1/beginning of S2, and the Giger-ish construction of the air vents aboard the Raza made me smile.

Voyager starting to get really solid. The second half of S3 was mostly great, and the new plot introduced at the end of the season is *massive* step up from the previous meta plot arcs. Thankfully I live in the future so I can bypass all of the annoying two-part season bookending cliffhangers by just watching both episodes in a row. So after I watch S4E01, I'll watch the second half of the recent Vikings season before getting into s4 of Voyager proper.

Y'all need to watch Legion, just sayin'.

I may check out Legion soon.


The second half of S3 and the first half of S4 are probably the best period for Voyager.

I often struggle to 'get into' new shows. finally got one to stick: The Americans. marathoned through the first 2 seasons.

timely enough, apparently a 5th season has just begun airing


want to check out Pete Holmes' Crashing (not to be confused with UK series) but can't find it anywhere yet.

Watching Dark Matter with Stargate in mind is helping me appreciate it, lol. I miss Stargate, so it's nice to have a bit of a similarly toned scifi show, particularly if it gets better. And McKay aka Not-Quentin-Tarantino shows up!

Absolutely cannot fucking wait for Fargo season 3 next month. At this point it's just about the only show that I watch every week, rather than waiting for the whole season to be out so I can binge it.

out today:



looks really expensive, but I'm still not impressed. I think/fear they'll cluck it up.

///

I binge-watched Continuum last month, have just 3 episodes left and can't bring myself to watch them :/

///



you're naive. I mean this in the best plausible way

I loved it when I was a teen, though I didn't watch the series till the very end. I had all sorts of nostalgia feels about how great the show was. Unfortunately when I went back and rewatched it on Netflix it ended up being very frustrating and seemed uneven (very similar to The Twilight Zone for me). My biggest two complaints are: they basically sacrifice the integrity of Scully's character (brilliant, analytical, sceptical) any time the plot needs her to be dumb or haphazard; the other one is the 'just so' plot contrivances which don't feel earned. I guess I'd still go back and watch the series again if I was with someone who hadn't seen it before. Plus the cigarette smoking man is one of my favorite villains of all time.

Dark Matter definitely gets better toward the mid/end of s01 and in s02. Pretty fun.

Yay! Season 2 has a pretty... uh... surprising ending, even moreso than the first season. Curious to see where it will go from there.

Mostly agreed, Scully did turn into the-info-moving-the-plot-forward far too often. I also feel the alien abduction of Mulder's sister which was the essentially the foundation of the show got brushed away and shoehorned back in randomly. They didn't need it in every episode but I would have liked it to echo Mulder's convictions more, rather than him be a comic relief 90% of the time.

Monster of the week were my favourite because they threw away that seemingly never ending convoluted/conspiracy shit and it was a self contained who-done-it with usually a great pay off, not Smoking Man popping up like a 90's version of Dr. Claw from Inspector Gadget/Skinner giving a piece of the puzzle that ultimately is fruitless or destroyed before discovery.

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/black-mi ... -to-direct

So looking like we'll get a new season of Black Mirror this year. Can't wait.

Side note: I've never seen such diverse opinion regarding best and worst episodes than with Black Mirror.