Something about the latest episode that isn't SPOILERY aka blank boxes. I would say this is the kind of episode we needed season a season ago, although I can see why one would choose to drag it out, it's the type of episode that leaves you wanting more and feeling relieved to have stuck through every disposable minute. My only reservation is The Walking Dead usually has moments of greatness next hours of plodding soap and filler, will TWD's bar be higher this season? We will see.

Now for spoilers

Any Luke Cage fans here? I only have about four episodes to go, and it's pretty badass. It's a bit more drama-oriented than focused on action, but still interesting with unique characters.

^It's pretty great. Bad guys, assorted doors and guns, watch out! Love the music too.

Man, I sure am glad that they censored that single "fuck" in the last Channel Zero episode after someone got their throat ripped out with a big-ass hook, otherwise I'd have been traumatised for life.

"Remember what the MPAA says: 'Horrific, deplorable violence is okay, as long as people don't say any naughty woids!'" - Sheila Broflovski

Along those lines, am I really the only person who's loving S20 of South Park? It doesn't have the same over-the-top feel of latter seasons but I think it's playing itself a bit smarter than before.

I watched three episodes, same long drawn out joke like last season only this time somehow more unfunny. Truth is Matt Stone and Trey Parker can essentially be lazy as fuck and dumb now because they don't have to come up with a story idea from scratch. Rick and Morty shits on South Park.

Finished Black Mirror Season 3 tonight; a resounding 'ehhhh' from me for the whole thing, sadly. I just think Charlie Brooker spread himself too thin here, as while every episode had its moments, every episode also had some pretty serious issues. The last episode in particular dragged like an elephant with its legs shorn off for the first half, until finally finding its footing and delivering the expectedly powerful conclusion. While I do not regret watching the whole season and would still recommend it to anyone interested in dark speculative sci-fi, I don't see myself revisiting any of these episodes a second time, and nothing so much as laps at the heels of inarguable masterpieces like The Entire History of You or White Christmas. Hopefully the recently-announced fourth season will rectify this.

Two completely different shows with two completely different purposes. South Park and Rick and Morty as just as good as one another IMO.

South Park season 20 gets credit for being ambitious. I skipped a few years before watching season 19 last year, which I loved, but season 20 seems super different from anything I've seen them do, which is crazy for a show this old. They're really playing a long game here and trying some more advanced storylines. I'm not sure it totally works yet, as it's not as funny or clever all the time as I'd like. But I like a lot of the jokes and the last ep I watched (about Butters starting this whole 'meninist' movement of sorts) was a step up. I appreciate the ambition even if it ends up not working so well.

The last Walking Dead ep was really good. Easily up there with the high points of the second half of season 6. Ezekiel is cool and Morgan and Carol were brilliant in this episode. I'm digging it.

Black Mirror season 3 was the best one yet, I think. They've had more clever or intuitive episodes in the past, like those darkeningday mentioned, but this whole season was the most cinematic, biggest, most ambitious stuff they've ever done, and I found myself enthralled by every episode. Big ideas and big settings abound, and the stories and characters were excellently done.

'Men Against Fire' was terrible. By far the worst of the season. The rest of the episodes rank from good to great, with 'San Junipero' being the absolute highlight of the season and probably of the whole show. Big props to the kid from 'Shut Up And Dance', great acting.

Just finished watching Luke Cage. Really liked it, but still think Jessica Jones was done better. There were certain different avenues I think it would have been more interesting to see them take with Luke Cage. Or maybe just undecided about it.

Also watched the first episode of the new season of the Walking Dead. Have to say I'm really disappointed and considering stopping watching the show entirely after that. I hate this approach TV shows are taking more and more these days of "how much can we shock people with gore and how much can we get away with?" To me there are far more interesting ideas and alternatives to explore in a show like the Walking Dead as far as the storyline goes, and feel like that sort of thing is kind of the lazy way out for the biggest ratings in zombie flicks.

I saw nothing lazy about what they did with The Walking Dead. It is 100% in line with the story of the original series and if they left that part out I would have been massively disappointed as a fan. I mean this is a zombie apocalypse story, gore is an integral part of the aesthetic and I applaud them for doing it the way they did.

Yeah, there were problems with the opening episode of the new TWD, mostly for me in that I didn't care about the deaths due to the cliffhanger ending before and the long wait. But the tension was great and the violence very effective because they don't usually go that far. It was obviously intentionally that way - not just cheap shock value.

Um...yeah, it is a zombie apocalypse story and if you look at the history of the genre you might understand why some think this show could easily be so much more interesting than the tired tropes that don't attempt to explore anything radical or new. And here I'm not just talking about any gore, but that particular episode was totally unnecessary and essentially pointless torture porn. It's becoming nothing but a repetition of the same story over and over again (what psychopathic big boss are they gonna meet next, and who's he gonna torture/kill next to get to Rick and how). There's a difference in horror/gore that does what it does for a reason vs. simply trying to "shock" people. Then again I hated what I read of the original series, and think the TV show has generally been much better because it at least started exploring the concept of alternative futures (rather than regurgitating the same tired tropes). Not only that but I like the way they've developed several characters (and the directions they go to create an alternative society) and wish they'd go more in that direction. Then again I basically am of the opinion that Rick and his storyline is the most boring and one-dimensional aspect of the show. The show would actually be much more interesting looking at the dynamics and cooperation between characters like Carol, Michone, Daryl etc. Hated that episode for similar reasons as I hated the last season finale of Orange Is the New Black. Lazy "shock value" shit to get more people to tune in.

It wasn't pointless, though - everything that happened in that first episode is a direct result of



It's anything but pointless. And yeah, the show is pretty repetitive and nihilistic in its way, but that's because that's what it's intended to be. Like it or hate it, the whole thing is supposed to be this long-form exploration of life in a zombie apocalypse, not just a small contained beginning-to-end thing. I'd say it has problems at times, as the writing can be pretty simplistic and blunt here and there, but I do like the idea behind it quite a bit.

Same thing for OITNB - that ending was rife with really great storytelling in terms of the way the characters involved were built up and how they reacted after. I don't see what's so lazy about it. I get the criticism that it was trying to ride on current events, maybe, though I wouldn't agree with that either. But lazy? Nah...

I pretty much disagree with everything you wrote here /shrug

I absolutely love the show and the original comic series and would like it much less if they went with your ideas, so I'm glad they do it their own way. Also, I've seen just about every single zombie film ever made and have been a fan for over 20 years so I don't need to "look at the history of the genre and maybe I'll understand something"

I probably should have elaborated, but when I was talking about the history of the genre I'm talking about the fact that it was originally steeped in a history of oppression and social unrest. I'm a massive fan not only of zombie fiction but post-apocalyptic fiction in general. With the former, there's now long been a point where the genre has become divorced from either being a reflection of oppression and/or social commentary, though there are some modern examples that continue in that tradition or at least show some remnants of it. With the latter there's still this divide between the fiction that basically only imagines futures that end up being pure replicates of our present society and sees democracy and human rights as things that must "inevitably" fall by the way side once society is thrown into apocalypse. Then there are those who imagine something different, that use their fiction both for social commentary (as in "how did we get here"?) and a way forward that doesn't assume the necessary and automatic destruction of particular values or achievements "for the sake of survival." Zombie fiction to me is not just about pointless gore and human suffering, but also looking at its relationship with social issues, social unrest, and imagining a different future rather than the same "well obviously this will happen and this will happen" that always favours the same people.





As far as the long-term exploration of life in a zombie apocalypse. That's just the thing is that's what I wish it were turning out to be but in a more interesting way. As a zombie apocalypse TV show its got so many more doors open to it than a movie would, with so much more room and potential to explore the types of societies that could emerge from that. But what I find irritating is that the show only ever imagines the same alternative or same conclusion over and over again, which I think actually is a clear reflection of current social issues without the authors actually intending it to be (as in the clear inability to imagine a world in which the same people don't necessarily have to remain in control over others' lives).

As far as Orange Is the New Black, not sure whether to get into it or not but yeah it was basically lazy writing from white writers who don't seem to understand that people (though talking about race here it's also about other forms of real world oppression and how they get replicated for "entertainment") experience enough bullshit in their every day lives that they might not want to relive when they look for entertainment. Again its the case where in my opinion it would be more fitting and more interesting (not to mention more respectful) to consider writing fiction that considers how we might change society rather than continuing to repeat reality on a screen. Or if these shows do reflect upon a real social event that it's done with a bit more respect. I thought for example Luke Cage was an interesting show that took into consideration current events and went somewhere at least a little different with it as far as how do we deal with very real social issues.

If every form of art simply stayed true to its foundational ideals and concepts, you'd literally have no progression in art whatsoever. I love The Walking Dead precisely because it isn't trying to be exactly like the rest of the pillars that the genre rests on. I love what they do with the story and I wouldn't want to see it any other way. I don't find their usage of gore lazy or contrived, I think it's awesome. I don't find the story arc of Rick to be boring like you, I enjoy it. And for what it's worth, I do not think The Walking Dead is only about "pointless" gore and human suffering, it's about human perseverance, survival and bonding as well which I thoroughly enjoy. It's fine if you don't like any of that but I most certainly do and I definitely don't agree with your criticism of the show on a fundamental level, but I'll just leave it at that.

Just to respond to one part of that only because it's actually the opposite of what I was trying to say. I put the part in bold. My criticism is not simply that it didn't "stay true to its foundational ideals and concepts" but that actually its the opposite. It doesn't stay true to an original tradition of social reflection or unrest, but most modern zombie fiction doesn't unfortunately. And I think its left out for a reason. That said, even within that original tradition there's a massive range of possibilities. I just don't find it innovative or living up to its potential. There are seasons and times where it looks to be going in that direction only for it to be destroyed and certain values hammered home more. That's actually my criticism, is that it's not exploring new territory as far as the common storyline and outcomes of modern zombie fiction. It's replicating the same social outcomes of already well-entrenched modern zombie fiction just on a longer timeline. I think that timeline could be used to explore other alternatives. That's mainly what I was trying to say.

I just don't agree with your assessment is all. I think it's very innovative and lives up to a massive potential. I thoroughly enjoy the storylines and themes being explored as they are currently. I would like the show much less if it weren't what it is.

The main thing I like about the show is that it is totally, completely unafraid of taking a character that would otherwise be deemed "bad" and showing you that they are multilayered, complex human beings. I can see your point about the only-white-writers thing, but that also means they're able to clearly show white privilege in a nuanced way, as we saw with

I lean more toward Norrmania about TWD than I do rexxz. I gave up on TWD during the second half of S4 and only watch it vicariously because my girlfriend still tunes in, and I've pinpointed why I don't care for it too much: there's not enough meat to go around.

An interesting or iconic visual is given to you, think Morgan's return or Carol leaving town, and instead of it being followed up on we'll get an episode of side characters discussing uninteresting details or be force-fed their emotions only for whatever investment to be lost when they're unceremoniously killed off. Early on this worked as the core cast was being established, think Dale in S2 or Jim in S1, but they've been replaced by the likes of...whatever that last town's mayor's son was named. In many ways, TWD has become Monday Night Raw: we know that the main players aren't going away anytime soon because the show hinges on their presence, but there's only so many stories you can tell within the narrow frames they've created for themselves. The investment has began to see diminishing returns because the dramatic highpoints were either reached long ago (S3 and the first half of S4) or just retreads on what we've already seen (Negan = more violent Governor, Wolves = that biker gang Daryl ran with for a few episodes).

In a way, this works to the show's advantage since they've deliberately chosen to stick with the Romero-style slow zombies, always keen to show us that death is inevitable, but there isn't enough flavoring between the few high points to make weekly viewings worthwhile.

Yeah, Black Mirror season 3 is at least as good as the older seasons, maybe the best. I think Shut up and Dance (an episode I haven't really seen being discussed as much as some of the other new ones) might be my new favorite of the whole series. It doesn't have the scale or scope of other episodes, but it's the one that mindfucked me the most by its brilliant ending, and whoever that teenage actor is was incredible. Not a weak episode in the whole bunch. Men Who Fight Fire would be my pick for least best, but it was still pretty thought provoking, I just found it a bit more heavy handed and obvious than the others.

The finale was also probably the most tense Black Mirror episode since The National Anthem, which is obviously saying a lot. I hope from now on they end each season with a 90 minute long piece.

If the main reason you watched TWD was to see if they might explore other types of societies, it strikes me that now is an incredibly unfortunate time to turn off the show. There's now four distinct societies, with more to come in the future. Trade and bartering was established last season between two of the groups (Alexandria and Hilltop), along with concurrent diplomacy. We've seen democracies, autocracies, nomads, barbarian hordes, and now one imperium---with, again, more societies to show up in the future. Moreover, if the show follows the comics, the conclusion of the Negan arc is utterly unlike anything they've done on the show before; it's...well....

I also think it's worth remembering that despite the enormous amount of time that has passed for viewers of the show, in the show's universe the amount of time that has passed is only around 2 years. As recently as season 3 (that is, about 9 or 10 months after the outbreak) there were still groups of people isolated enough to not know the world had ended. As recently as early last season (that is, like 18 months after the outbreak) there were still large groups of people in Alexandria that had never personally encountered a walker.

People in this world are still figuring out the way of the world post-apocalypse. It's not like they've had a decade to work things out.

I finished watching the first episode of S3 sometime back. The "ehhhh" feeling resounded strongly with me too and I don't get why this season in particular is being overhyped. I'm on the fence about continuing because I felt this episode too dragged on for far too long, too much for my liking at least. I'll probably still complete the season though.

Has anyone gotten into Westworld yet?

Westworld is fucking incredible, first tv show I've been this hooked on in some time. Will throw out some discussion and rambling theories when I'm not at work.

Wow i just the Black Mirror episode "San Junipero"....that shit was depressing as fuck but amazing too, honestly made me tear up.

One of the best episodes of a TV show ive ever seen and one i'll never watch again like Jurassic Bark from Futurama.

Westworld: goooood.

Just finished season 1 of The Man In The High Castle. It started really good but it became so slow paced and with some convenient stuff happening to the main characters. I was a bit disappointed because i expected something better due to all the high rated reviews.

It continues to impress! I've never seen the original film but in discussing it with a buddy who has, the tv show seems to be taking this MUCH further. They've got me hooked as well.

Smoking_Gnu: Completely unlike WW in every way, but did you ever watch True Detective season 1? That's probably my favorite season of non-comedy ever produced. I've watched the whole season something like 7 or 8 times. I don't even like the ending very much but the journey completely possesses me. Occult rituals, murder, pedophilia, and mysticism in the backwoods of Louisiana. Easily McConaughey's best work ever.

You know I started watching TD1, got through the first two episodes and then stopped for no particular reason, which is really stupid because I absolutely loved it for all the reasons you mentioned. Definitely need to pick that up again.

It's amazing how badly season two cocked up though, haha.

Season 2 wasn't bad it was just not comparable to the greatness of 1 IMO. I still liked it a lot more than many other shows.

Channel Zero is the stuff of nightmares.

I recently completed Luke Cage and I'd rank it behind Jessica Jones and Daredevil, in that order. It was somewhere between OK and good. Jessica Jones is still the best of the Netflix/Marvel series but I'm eager to see Iron Fist and Punisher spin off.

I started watching Westworld but stopped after about 3 episodes. I just found it incredibly boring and could not continue.

^ I found Luke Cage boring. I feel after JJ and DD, it failed to live up the series. Although Mike Colter did his best to portray the character, I found the very nature of the character to be very boring. I haven't read any the comics so I am unable to nitpick. His cameo appearances in JJ were good but I didn't feel it warranted an entire show around him.

Westworld is fantastic. Great world-building and love the concept of hosts and guests. I'm currently on the 4th episode and playing catch-up with the actual series. I should be up to speed by the time Sunday's episode airs. I'll indulge in a bit of discussion once I'm through with it.

Luke Cage was the best one to me. Daredevil season 1 and Jessica Jones were incredible too, but Luke Cage just seemed like the most fully-realized, the most consistent and the richest in story, character, etc. I loved it.

Contains TWD spoiler in a comedy context.

I don't think today's world would be ready for a Chapelle Show comeback.

After a comment by the Youtuber lindybeige, who said that Rome is "historically accurate in many aspects" (and this guy is an actual archaeologist and very picky), I will binge watch this series once again. The fourth time! I love it.

Sacrilege but I'm inclined to agree, not that it is necessarily boring as such but it's too comfortable in it's oppressive premise that it takes little chances risking it's overall shape, thus becoming non-thrilling in doing so. Also it's formula of a different protagonist each episode seems out the window by episode 3 which is disappointing. Everything inside Westworld is far more interesting than in the maker's lab with most characters far too callous and cold and perverted, there's little reason to sympathize or even care for these outside characters. Perhaps we are meant to demonize them but then there are many characters inside Westworld that are equally as cold and perverted, so what's the point essentially? There's no breath of fun and adventure which is what the original definitely had, it wasn't so overt in hitting over your head with the oppressive downfall of man. Not to say I won't keep watching and at least see a season out but the series doesn't seem reflective of any kind of hope or progression, rather a tedious case of '1984' with artificial intelligence.