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KvltLord
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:15 am
Posts: 1207
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:25 am 
 

The following is a piece from the conversation I am having with my friend right now over msn

Could you please tell us what you consider to be wrong/right with our statements?


He is Dan
I am T




Dan says:
Have you ever had those times, where you're not sure if it's a memory or a dream?

T says:
Elaborate on your meaning, please

Dan says:
When you're trying to remember an event in your past time, but you're not sure if that actually happened

T says:
Yes, many times
I've also experienced the effects of having imagined a place within a certain time and location, and having been so caught in my own visions and thoughts, that I forget about it, and later feel as though I was actually there, on this plane of reality

Dan says:
Dammit, I don't want this 'event' to be fiction, I need to somehow find a clue or something to proove that what I saw was real

T says:
Would you like to share exactly what is on your mind?

Dan says:
Well this may seem a little far fetched, but please don't think I'm some redneck american
Years ago, when I was in Balmoral, one day at school, I think there was some giant black circle in the sky. I don't know if this really happened because there hasn't been any reports about it. I've spent a bit of studying, and it was around 2002. I've just always thought of it to be true, if it was 'fiction', then I could have easily forgotten about it, but you can't seem to forget about memories.

T says:
And how would you like me to respond to such a statement

Dan says:
No need to.
You asked, I explained

T says:
I asked if you would like to, not to explain it

Dan says:
...more or less

T says:
Sounds like an interesting experience, did this black circle have any defining qualities or traits?
Dan says:
nope, just a really big black circle, no flashing lights or any of that crap, it didn't move, no noise it was just a large circle. I think back then I always thought of it to be a black hole, because back then I had no idea what I black hole was like...only because of it's name

T says:
I honestly have no opinion on this at all, I'm afraid I cannot offer you an answer of substance
I do like the fact that you have remembered this '' black hole '' though
Dan says:
That is if I really have remembered it, or it's just a recollection of perhaps I dream I had. Or a part of my imagination that didn't have anything unrealistic so I couldn't tell if it was real or not

T says:
I've lately been questioning the very concept of what reality really is
It is an illusion that we are told to believe is there? is it an entity that sways the lifes of the earths inhabitants in its own ways? is there one true reality? or are there several planes of reality/s? is it possible to physically navigate such areas?

Dan says:
I view reality, as a world we don't have the power to alternate
I can always change a dream
But no matter how hard I try, unless I physically 'do it', this desk will always remain brown
Now we're talking about 'epistomology'

T says:
You could paint it, it can rot, you could strip the paint on the desk,you could even completely destroy the desk
then the desk would not even exist anymore
physicaly speaking

Dan says:
But is that me doing it? Or the laws of physics? Am I really in control? Because blue paint will always be blue, I can't control what colour blue paint will be unless it is mixed with another, that is not my changing the paint myself, I'm using another object, and the laws of physics, to change the colour
So who's really in control?

T says:
Mixing two different colors in order to create a different color from the two, is merely a means to an end, and in this case, the end justifies the means, so even though you say you cannot control what the color is, you can in fact change the color, rather than having control over the tone itself
And I myself am not even sure why you would want to dominate that which we know as blue
Sorry, my mistake, I messed up my statement
You cannot change the color, but you can change the color of the paint itself

Dan says:
But blue and green will always = aqua, or teal. If I was in control, it could turn out to be purple. So i'm not in control, I'm obeying the laws of physics...I'm a slave to how logic 'should' work

T says:
That's a very opinionated statement, but if you consider yourself '' a slave '' to the laws of physics, then that is your own opinion
Dan says:
A slave has no freedom, how can I have freedom if the end result is always out of my own control, and into the control of physics.

T says:
You have more control than you think, because if you cannot create purple with the colors orange and crimson, you can with blue and green, therefore you do not have a straight solution to your problem if you were using any other colors, and even then, you may possess a liquid that possesses the neccessary components to achieve such a radical change in tone

Dan says:
I have no freedom, just a larger cage. There are objects which prevent me from going any further, like a barrier

T says:
Such a thing must exist
Also, footnote to your statement
You are not a slave to the laws of Physics, as the laws of Physics do not, rightfully by law, have any claim to ownership over you as a being
Therefore you a not slave, but what you are trying to convey with your statement is one of the characteristics of Slavery, and therefore attempting to put across the illusion that the absence of freedom itself is the soul defining trait of slavery and those that possess such a trait is a slave to whatever being or thing in question

Dan says:
er...I don't know what to say
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Gorgo
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Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:37 pm
Posts: 441
Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:41 pm 
 

First of all, I could be way off about this because it's been a while that I've checked my philosophy, so you better look at other opinions here. Anyway, here we go:

In my opinion, it is impossible to know what reality is. Descartes said that you are able to proof your existence by doubt (by asking questions, you are sure that you doubt, but when you ask questions again concerning that doubt, you doubt again, that makes that doubt is a certainty).

Now, personally, I have never had a dream were I doubted anything, so you could conclude that a dream is fake as you are unable to doubt. But, doubt is (according to Descartes) the purest form of thinking. What is thinking? Thinking for me is a brain activity, just like walking, breathing.... Those are things that you do in a dream, so you have brain activity in a dream.

I believe that Descartes also tried to proof this by the existence of god, have forgotten most of it, only that Descartes believed in a perfect god. That itself is impossible simply because perfection can never exist. The imperfection of perfection is perfection itself.
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:58 pm 
 

Your threads make my fucking teeth hurt.
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WebOfPiss
Myopic Void

Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:17 pm
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Location: Presidio Modelo
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:01 pm 
 

He sure went on a long hiatus.

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Iron_Vice
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:59 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:37 pm 
 

You know, when I saw his posting record, I was sure that Noktorn had made a new account.

I appreciate what you are trying to do, but I don't completely understand what direction you are trying to take this topic. Are you unsure, and thus asking a bunch of internet wankers about philosophy, or something other?

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sortalikeadream
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:34 am
Posts: 1555
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:19 pm 
 

He meant sphere, right? An ominous black circle would indeed be disconcerting, yet also less likely to have actually occurred.

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sortalikeadream
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Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:34 am
Posts: 1555
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:28 pm 
 

Your friend is mostly speaking from an ignorance of science, not philosophy.

"But is that me doing it? Or the laws of physics? Am I really in control? Because blue paint will always be blue, I can't control what colour blue paint will be unless it is mixed with another, that is not my changing the paint myself, I'm using another object, and the laws of physics, to change the colour
So who's really in control? "

Colors are a funny thing. When we say "blue", "green", "red"...etc, it is likely that we are referring to same bandwidth of light. However, we have no way of confirming that our subjective experience of the color is the same.

That's not terribly relevant, just interesting.

Your friend cannot change what color "blue paint" is, by definition. Blue paint that wasn't blue would cease to be blue paint.

As much as it is impossible to work 'outside' the laws of physics (although I would tell your friend to check out Notes From Underground by Dostoevsky, there's this one part about battering your head against a brick wall like a bull, the brick wall being the laws of physics. It's pretty damn poignant), it is very important to remember that we are only able to exist because of them.

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Bolth_Mannn
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:19 am
Posts: 966
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:51 pm 
 

your conversations with your friends are weird as fuck
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Razakel
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:36 pm
Posts: 4861
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:03 pm 
 

Bolth_Mannn wrote:
your conversations with your friends are weird as fuck


This.

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peterlang
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 6:22 am
Posts: 231
Location: Hungary
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:10 pm 
 

Razakel wrote:
Bolth_Mannn wrote:
your conversations with your friends are weird as fuck


This.


That. I talk with my teachers in a less formal way... Not to mention we only talk about philosophy when drunk.

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Seven_Whispers
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 10:17 am
Posts: 248
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:38 pm 
 

peterlang wrote:
Razakel wrote:
Bolth_Mannn wrote:
your conversations with your friends are weird as fuck


This.


That. I talk with my teachers in a less formal way... Not to mention we only talk about philosophy when drunk.


Philosophy is all fine and dandy but holy crap...they sound like computers, or corporate robots talking to each other. While reading this I imagined two rich guys holding tea with their pinkies out in suites going "hmm yes" after each point XD ... Like honestly, do they ACTUALLY talk like that in real life?

On topic, like others have said the color we see is a certain bandwidth of light (400nm-700nm is the visible spectra). How we percieve this information may or may not be unique to an individual person, but we will never know if it is or not :\. Also mixing paint together is just changing the pigments to reflect different light bandwidths, it's not actually changing the color of the object (all objects are black untill light hits them, then they absorb certain bandwidths of light and reflect others, what they reflect is what we see). An interesting side note is that blue paint isn't blue, it's actually anything BUT blue, blue is what is reflected back to us XD that was, and still is a wierd concept for me and many people haha

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PhantomGreen
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Location: Imprisoned in Flesh
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:44 pm 
 

A very weak attempt at trying to sound smart and "deep". Nice try though, I'll give you an A for effort.

"And how would you like me to respond to such a statement" :lol:
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CorpseFister
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:07 pm
Posts: 1915
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:21 pm 
 

KvltLord wrote:
Dan says:
I think there was some giant black circle in the sky.


It was a solar eclipse. Jesus.

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KvltLord
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:15 am
Posts: 1207
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:30 pm 
 

Iron_Vice wrote:
Are you unsure, and thus asking a bunch of internet wankers about philosophy


Basically :P



Bolth_Mannn wrote:
your conversations with your friends are weird as fuck


Trust me, they can get weirder/gayer/homo erotic

And for the record, I am not gay, or bisexual
I just wanted to put that out there, for anyone who will use that comment against me later on


PhantomGreen wrote:
A very weak attempt at trying to sound smart and "deep". Nice try though, I'll give you an A for effort.

"And how would you like me to respond to such a statement" :lol:


I don't try to be anything when I talk to my friends, I just talk to them in a live E-chat with respect and the appropriate wording
MA is different for me though

That comment was in jest by the way


Jonpo wrote:
Your threads make my fucking teeth hurt.



That's Metal!


WebOfPiss wrote:
He sure went on a long hiatus.


Long enough in my opinion, long enough :wink:
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CrushedRevelation
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:47 am
Posts: 4971
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:37 pm 
 

KvltLord wrote:
Jonpo wrote:
Your threads make my fucking teeth hurt.


That's Metal!


No it's annoying as hell.

KvltLord wrote:
WebOfPiss wrote:
He sure went on a long hiatus.


Long enough in my opinion, long enough :wink:


Are you really sure about this? Really?
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KvltLord
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:15 am
Posts: 1207
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:03 pm 
 

CrushedRevelation wrote:
KvltLord wrote:
Jonpo wrote:
Your threads make my fucking teeth hurt.


That's Metal!


No it's annoying as hell.

KvltLord wrote:
WebOfPiss wrote:
He sure went on a long hiatus.


Long enough in my opinion, long enough :wink:


Are you really sure about this? Really?



Image
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CrushedRevelation
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:23 pm 
 

KvltLord wrote:
Image


No use crying at me over it....
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Mysticaloldbard
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Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:10 pm
Posts: 1115
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:44 pm 
 

Reading stuff like this makes me stupider. Gah!
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Oblarg
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:50 pm 
 

I hope I'm not the only one who caught the (most likely unintentional) irony in the thread title...
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peterlang
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Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 6:22 am
Posts: 231
Location: Hungary
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:13 pm 
 

Oblarg wrote:
I hope I'm not the only one who caught the (most likely unintentional) irony in the thread title...


"Elaborate on your meaning, please."

Shit, that still sounds gay...

wtf ya mean by dat man???

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Oblarg
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:59 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:41 pm 
 

peterlang wrote:
Oblarg wrote:
I hope I'm not the only one who caught the (most likely unintentional) irony in the thread title...


"Elaborate on your meaning, please."

Shit, that still sounds gay...

wtf ya mean by dat man???


He's trying to sound deep and intellectual yet his thread title has a rather glaring grammatical error.
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Mysticaloldbard
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:10 pm
Posts: 1115
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:33 pm 
 

I think what cracked me up the most was "on this plane of reality" hahaha.
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Seven_Whispers
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Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 10:17 am
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:48 am 
 

Mysticaloldbard wrote:
I think what cracked me up the most was "on this plane of reality" hahaha.


Really? for me it's a toss up between "I honestly have no opinion on this at all, I'm afraid I cannot offer you an answer of substance" and "Such a thing must exist. Also, footnote to your statement" (First time I've heard footnote used outside of putting one on a project in M. Word) XD

No joke though, this thread made my day XD

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Terri23
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Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:53 am
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:20 am 
 

The conversation falls over when you look at the basic ideology of philosophy. Philosophy relies on a rational discussion. There is nothing here that is rational. It appears to be trying to be meaningful, but falls over very early on.

For someone of the age of fifteen, you should probably leave things like this well alone until you grasp a much better idea of what philosophy actually is. Your friend summed it all up perfectly in the last line. The shame here is that it went on for as long as it did. You should probably stick to more typical fifteen year old activities, like chasing girls, rather than trying to decipher the worlds problems.

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Oblarg
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:59 pm
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Location: The second sea
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:30 am 
 

Seven_Whispers wrote:
Mysticaloldbard wrote:
I think what cracked me up the most was "on this plane of reality" hahaha.


Really? for me it's a toss up between "I honestly have no opinion on this at all, I'm afraid I cannot offer you an answer of substance" and "Such a thing must exist. Also, footnote to your statement" (First time I've heard footnote used outside of putting one on a project in M. Word) XD

No joke though, this thread made my day XD


This bit is even better:

Quote:

Dan says:
Dammit, I don't want this 'event' to be fiction, I need to somehow find a clue or something to proove that what I saw was real

T says:
Would you like to share exactly what is on your mind?

Dan says:
Well this may seem a little far fetched, but please don't think I'm some redneck american
Years ago, when I was in Balmoral, one day at school, I think there was some giant black circle in the sky. I don't know if this really happened because there hasn't been any reports about it. I've spent a bit of studying, and it was around 2002. I've just always thought of it to be true, if it was 'fiction', then I could have easily forgotten about it, but you can't seem to forget about memories.

T says:
And how would you like me to respond to such a statement

Dan says:
No need to.
You asked, I explained

T says:
I asked if you would like to, not to explain it

Dan says:
...more or less


It reads like a fucking cleverbot conversation, except less coherent.
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KvltLord
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:15 am
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:49 am 
 

Well, I am not a pretentious person, but I say what I can to bring my meaning across, if that makes any difference

But if people can find humor in what I have to say, then that's a great thing, because I am not always deadly serious, but I do have my moments when I will put my foot down and choose to BE serious

If you thought what I posted was amusing or stupid, then that's cool

I really just wanted to sample some opinions on our conversation, not much else to be honest
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TempusFugit
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Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:24 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:45 pm 
 

[quote="KvltLord"][/quote]

I couldn't give less of a damn about the actual topic, but since you're currently paying attention to it:

STOP PUSHING THE ENTER/RETURN BUTTON AFTER EVERY SENTENCE.

It doesn't make stuff easier to read. All you end up doing is cluttering the topic and make it harder to ignore you.

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Gelseth_Andrano
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:53 pm 
 

Lol I think this thread was created NOT to see if anyone could figure out he was talking an about an eclipse, but to see how many "redneck Americans" would kill themselves over an information overload.

Mr. KvltLord, SIR, I would like to add in my own bit of speculation if
You wouldn't mind, sir. While your friend Dan feels like
A slave to the laws of physics because he cannot change them, therefore
Never feeling in control, he should consider this: the laws can without any
Uncertainty change themselves, for they are by nature set in
Stone if you will. Dan cannot change physics because they have been
Irrevocably set by...Well, that's another topic by itself? But, Dan could
Scrounge up the materials, to change the color of the paint, therefore
Bringing a physical change to the paint itself. If he didn't do this,
Laws of physics would dictate that if he didn't, the change wouldn't have
Ever occured in the first place. One might say that he was even in control,
Even for just this specific occasion. He may not be able to really
Directly change physics, but he can certainly manipulate the laws
Into doing what he wants. He is using what he has to create an entirely
New paint with its own properties. Dan is a cog in the machine; a
Gear used to make these things happen. He controls it, it controls him

Now maybe this doesn’t make any sense, but the important thing here is that I’ve encoded a secret message into my rant. I wish you all luck...

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EnemyOfTheSun420
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Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:41 am
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:58 pm 
 

...This makes me curious about the nature of the relationship you have with this guy...morbidly curious...in all seriousness though, of course it's not possible to truly know the nature of reality and such.

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Gelseth_Andrano
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Location: Dekalb, Illinois
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:02 pm 
 

...pretty much

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CrushedRevelation
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:47 am
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:12 pm 
 

Gelseth_Andrano wrote:
but the important thing here is that I’ve encoded a secret message into my rant. I wish you all luck...


:lol:
Niiiiice....
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PhantomGreen
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 7:27 pm
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Location: Imprisoned in Flesh
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:17 pm 
 

Gelseth_Andrano wrote:
Now maybe this doesn’t make any sense, but the important thing here is that I’ve encoded a secret message into my rant. I wish you all luck...


I hate when that happens, Go through like 10 pairs of underwear in a week.
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Gelseth_Andrano
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Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:22 pm
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Location: Dekalb, Illinois
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:43 pm 
 

Lol. I just considerit a side effect of working at at desk for over 40 hours a week. Oh god. FMJ

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EnemyOfTheSun420
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:41 am
Posts: 169
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:10 am 
 

MYANUSISBLEEDING

...My anus is bleeding...I have uncoded your secret message! Huzzah!

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Mysticaloldbard
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:10 pm
Posts: 1115
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:38 am 
 

Way to it give it away! :cry:
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KvltLord
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:15 am
Posts: 1207
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:51 am 
 

Gelseth_Andrano wrote:
Lol I think this thread was created NOT to see if anyone could figure out he was talking an about an eclipse, but to see how many "redneck Americans" would kill themselves over an information overload.

Mr. KvltLord, SIR, I would like to add in my own bit of speculation if
You wouldn't mind, sir. While your friend Dan feels like
A slave to the laws of physics because he cannot change them, therefore
Never feeling in control, he should consider this: the laws can without any
Uncertainty change themselves, for they are by nature set in
Stone if you will. Dan cannot change physics because they have been
Irrevocably set by...Well, that's another topic by itself? But, Dan could
Scrounge up the materials, to change the color of the paint, therefore
Bringing a physical change to the paint itself. If he didn't do this,
Laws of physics would dictate that if he didn't, the change wouldn't have
Ever occured in the first place. One might say that he was even in control,
Even for just this specific occasion. He may not be able to really
Directly change physics, but he can certainly manipulate the laws
Into doing what he wants. He is using what he has to create an entirely
New paint with its own properties. Dan is a cog in the machine; a
Gear used to make these things happen. He controls it, it controls him

Now maybe this doesn’t make any sense, but the important thing here is that I’ve encoded a secret message into my rant. I wish you all luck...



I personally think that your post is brilliant, I actually did understand a lot of it and it has opened my mind to possibilities that I had not previously considered

Thank you for your assistance sir :)

I hope you have a great day
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Gelseth_Andrano
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Location: Dekalb, Illinois
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 am 
 

Well thanks; I'm glad I could actually contribute. By the way, I'm assuming this convo isn't verbatim? The only way I can imagine people talking like that in real life is with a scotch in one hand and a hugely expensive cigar in the other, while wearing a fancy robe, and sitting in a nice big easy chair in front of a fire place. Lol if that actually IS how the conversation went, then that's pretty neat. And for the record, I saw your morality dilemma in the metal discussion forum and I don't think you post pointless topics. This thread actually got people to think about shit, and that's important. I just hope us redneck don't lose any more teeth over it :wink:

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waiguoren
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Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:23 am
Posts: 2176
Location: Make a kiss to her
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:21 am 
 

This philosophical thread makes me want to get all categorically imperative and bury my nose deep in some Kant, not trying to be Sartecastic or anything, just had to get that off my Hesse.
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Gelseth_Andrano
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Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:22 pm
Posts: 2692
Location: Dekalb, Illinois
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:29 am 
 

waiguoren wrote:
This philosophical thread makes me want to get all categorically imperative and bury my nose deep in some Kant, not trying to be Sartecastic or anything, just had to get that off my Hesse.


Nietzsche: Your desires are bullshit! Fuck YOOOOOOOUUUUUUU!!!!!!!

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KvltLord
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:15 am
Posts: 1207
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:07 am 
 

Gelseth_Andrano wrote:
Well thanks; I'm glad I could actually contribute. By the way, I'm assuming this convo isn't verbatim? The only way I can imagine people talking like that in real life is with a scotch in one hand and a hugely expensive cigar in the other, while wearing a fancy robe, and sitting in a nice big easy chair in front of a fire place. Lol if that actually IS how the conversation went, then that's pretty neat. And for the record, I saw your morality dilemma in the metal discussion forum and I don't think you post pointless topics. This thread actually got people to think about shit, and that's important. I just hope us redneck don't lose any more teeth over it :wink:



I don't fake it, that is 100% copied straight from our msn convo itself, and I must say that your comment on bottles of scotch and fireplaces made me laugh very hard :lol:

And thank you for the kind words, I do try to invoke a bit of thought and dicussion when I can around here, usually so others AND myself can benefit from potential answers at the same time
I'm glad you understood that though, your kind words are appreciated :)
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