Kung fu is a general term anyway. Kung fu refers to many different styles of martial arts, all of which are rooted in original Chinese martial arts. Where does everyone think Bruce Lee created Jeet Kun Do?

He was talking about Ben Henderson, not Dan Henderson.

Also it depends on HOW you trained. There are styles of kung-fu which, if trained properly - meaning focus on sparring, working with a partner etc. - can result in potent stand-up styles with elbows, knees, lowkicks, boxing, throws and takedowns. For example the kung-fu that I am learning (a Praying Mantis style) but emphasis on sparring first and forms last (which does not mean they are absent from the curriculum).

I wish that I had a sparring partner. My chops are down. Damn it...

I would propose a friendly sparring session but I'm in Poland. I trained with some JKD guys recently and was blown away by their variety in technique - and I wish I properly learned Escrima some day.

Yeah obviously not all Chinese martial arts is hocus pocus, you've got folks like Cung Le (Sanshou) and that Chinese MMA promotion "Art of War." I'm sure there's a variety of usefulness over there.

The problem with Chinese martial arts is that the approach of 99% of sifu's is to train forms first and sparring last. Also kung-fu encompases LOTS of styles - some with more usefullness than others. It all depends on the style and on the sifu teaching you.

That's why I like the approach of jeet kun do.

That approach, when it takes a negative turn, is actually a "modern world" phenomenon, and at least in America can largely be attributed to litigiousness; aka a master/martial arts school having to be worried about getting sued. This is especially relevant since most schools make their dough on kids. In addition to that, with the diverse range of things for kids to do in the modern world, unless you keep them happy by giving them rank updates fairly regularly, they get discouraged and just bail.

SHORT VERSION: actual traditional training...
-involved/s sparring
-did/does NOT suggest a horse stance facing opponent with hands on hips for a fight; such stances are designed to isolate certain aspects of the bodily motion and create a more diverse range of comfortable circumstances from which to execute a given move)
-usually contains moves that are not allowed in "safe" conditions like MMA (eye gouging, headbutts, strikes to the throat and spine, nerve-strikes, small joint manipulation, dynamic/non-submission breaks); and obviously the reason these moves have to be removed is because they are too dangerous (the point of martial arts), this is not just a retarded excuse (an MMA fighter who knows eye-gouging is no better off in the ring for knowing eye-gouging - if a martial artists training is centered on these kinds of violence obviously they really AREN'T compatible)

EXTENDED RAMBLE:
Traditional martial arts DO include some degree of lingering (presumably impractical) mysticism and (arbitrary) customs, but the kind of practice they entail is the perfecting of specific techniques. Traditional karate will teach you the concepts of how to throw a straight punch in ways boxing does not (though it's very clear that certain fighters just "get it" and their punches are like fucking atomic bombs, as opposed to freight trains, even if their speed, mass, and muscle percentile aren't better than). Every time I watch an MMA fight I find a fucking CHAIN of things fundamentally wrong with what they're doing and I have no idea how they could possibly be such good fighters when they don't even stop their elbows from flying out when they throw a punch. Furthermore, traditional martial arts concepts will lead a master (or maybe even just an expert) to be able to ADAPT to a situation: they won't have to think, "punch doesn't work, what other moves will... an elbow," the elbow is just the natural result of wanting to attack at this relative position. Obviously it's better to train "effective attack" than "punch or kick or elbow or knee." As to just how well one can do that... in my personal experience, it's extremely possible and it's what separates the men from the boys in the martial arts world, regardless of raw physical output (I'm well aware any MMA fighter would thrash me like a motherfucker) - the issue isn't which produces better fighters, but which COULD produce THE BEST fighter; and it most definitely entails substantial amounts of "traditional" training (isolating the techniques and parts of techniques of moves and parts of moves in a variety of sequences, regardless of how probable) and conceptualizing (physics and anatomy would help here too).

I've taken traditional karate, JKD (taught by an ex secret service agent and a golden gloves champ), Chung Moo Do (traditional Korean multi-style with a cult-like hierarchy), Pai Lum Kung Fu (traditional, taught by an ex special forces with other martial arts under his belt), sambo (from an ex-spetsnaz), and MMA (from the same guy who taught me traditional karate as a kid). Without question I got the LEAST out of the JKD (Chung Moo coming in next) and the MOST out of the Pai Lum (traditional karate coming in next). That kung fu training was really really good and the volume was NOT turned down, hard tile floors and I used to spar with my heavier roommate-of-the-time bareknuckled. Obviously there was a degree of restraint, but learning that control is part of the training (being able to pull a punch means being able to change trajectory/move fast) and fucking up and hurting each other occasionally was also part of the training. Really stellar stuff. Interestingly enough, the JKD class had point sparring (with FULL pads no less), which does the opposite of help you learn how to fight, and the traditional karate class was the only one that had real sparring in it otherwise. As you can see, the two trainings that included fighting (and the closer to the real thing) were the better ones.

The other defense of traditional methods is that there is such a thing as psychosomatic effect. A lot of that mysticism may not be "true" in any existential sense, but still have psychological significance in producing focus, awareness, and bodily control. I don't know exactly how one would weed out the bullcrap, but who knows, maybe it's all worth it to some degree (in terms of religious practice meditation of all different religions/disciplines produces the same kinds of appeal to its practitioners).

Nick fucking Diaz!

Didn't he?

There's a Jeet Kun Do class going on at the gym where I work out, though the question is, is Jeet Kun Do actually good for something?
Is it useful for actual combat and/or self defense?

Anyone know a good torrent site for mma?.... the site i used mostly http://www.bestmmatorrents.com i think got shutdown.

As for Jeet Kune Do - I would train at ANY school that adheres to the Jeet Kune Do principle and NOT a one that treats JKD as a style. Treating JKD as a style is the exact opposite of Lee's teachings. His own personalized form of JKD is something that worked for him.

And how do I seperate the two?

couple pages back: few things funnier than someone bashing Fedor for fighting cans and then totally slobbering over Overeem heh. Fedor would/could/and probably will, if they ever finally set it up, murder Overeem

Not a chance.

I'd love to see that fight, but if it were to happen, It will probably be saved for his New Years Eve fight, so there is quite a wait ahead.

Is a supreme douche, he and his brother can go die in a fire.

I can't stand any form of MMA even for a second. It bores me to fucking tears and every time I see a TAP OUT shirt (see every 5 fucking seconds) I'd like to go postal.

To me, it's just synonymous with v-necks, light beer and hair gel. Please, die.

and all metalheads are unintelligent teenagers with way too much aggression at their disposal? Incorrect.



I've been a hardcore MMA fan for about 3 years now I'd say, I trained it for a bit as well, but nothing to serious. I agree about Bruce and his jeet, if trained and realized properly, it is the base of all MMA, the form it self basically means MMA. "be water my friend"

I haven't read through this whole thread yet, but I do know that while Fedor is one of if not the best, he is still severely overrated. If Overeem came in with a good gameplan and stayed focused, he would have a very good chance at beating Fedor.

I started to get into martial arts in an active way a while back, but I never had enough time with it. The person training me began to flake and it kind of fell apart. I'd like to know, for any of the experts here, if there's a way that I can successfully train myself. If not, what is some good advice for scoping out a GREAT trainer and not just a mediocre one?

Just wanted to give everyone a update about me fighting...

I think I'm done. I had an amateur fight about a week ago, got completely trashed. Knocked out in the first minute of the second round. I never wanna have to go through that again. Call me a pussy...

hahah yeah that was a pretty douchy generalization for me to make. Lots of my friends like UFC and that's cool. But you'll never catch me in a sports bar if they've got a fight going on.

George Saint Pierre tapped out to strikes in the very first round against Matt Serra, and now he's one of the pound for pound best fighters in MMA. Just saying.

I have no interest in competing in MMA, because, frankly, I don't really want to be punched in the face. But I've been slammed my fair share of times in amateur wrestling, and each time it happens there is of course a little bit of apprehension about going out into those positions again. I don't think you should quit the sport just because of one bad experience, use that fear to drive you to winning your next fight.

Um...GSP did NOT tap out to strikes, it was called on a TKO.

At any rate....anyone catch UFC 109? The Geasers at Ceasers (Cotoure vs. Coleman) ? The Sonnen/Marquardt fight totally did not end the way I wanted it to....but it was a great fight.

I watched the fight, and I'm pretty sure he tapped out like a little bitch. Fantastic athlete though.

Seen it about 7 times, bro. The ref stepped in.

You will see no tap (his arms flailing about is not him tapping): http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=8260948049

At any rate: I'm looking forward to him trashing Dan Hardy!

I watched the finish once from a different angle, and it does appear like he's tapping. But I guess in the end it really doesn't matter. And I'm certainly looking forward to that fight, if only to see Hardy and his big mouth get shut down.

It appears as though he's doing that as he turns into Big John's legs, but BJ had already stepped in to stop the bout. Hence the TKO.

And yeah, Hardy's as annoying as they come. Honestly, I hope they grant him that fight with Koscheck, and maybe (if we're lucky) the ring will fucking explode while they're fighting. I hate Koscheck and Hardy almost as much as I hate the Diaz brothers and Diego Sanchez.

Speaking of which, did you see him get his ass hammered by Penn? Jesus, that was beautiful....

I don't plan on quitting, just not competing for awhile. I'll probably try fighting again once I get better.

Yes he does. He just does it with his right hand when he turtles and Big John is already stepping in to end it.

Here

He was still trying to tap, it doesn't change the sentiment that was being expressed.

Ok, ok, ok. However, it's not counted as a submission since BJ already called it on account of a TKO. Nevertheless, I stand corrected.

It still doesn't make him "a bitch" as kronos116 implied.

A friend of mine trained for months to be a cage fighter and got his ass totally obliterated by a marine less than half his size in his first fight. He also never went back. I'm quite sure though, that everyone starts out that way (my friend who trained as a boxer had a similar number of first experiences when spar-time came). To some extent I think it may be impossible to truly train a mindset without an opponent. I know that when I've sparred bareknuckle and they didn't pull the punch it became clear that even blocking hurts, and until you've gotten used to dealing with that you're probably gonna get your ass kicked. But definitely no shame in backing away, it's a commitment.

haha my thoughts exactly

That was highly excruciating, truth is. Couldn't he deliver that kick a few bouts earlier?

Diago got fucked up in that fight, he never recovered after being dazed in the first few moments. He was a differen't fighter the rest of the fight. Dude is still a fucking beast though. Kept that grim look on his face the entire fight, even through the brusing lol. I'll always respect sick fighters like Diago, Diaz boys, Roger Huerta, Griffin and such. Those guys love to take a beating as much as they love throwing one. They lose just as good as they win. Fuck off you sissies haha.

Anyone watch WEC 47 last night? I forgot to. Are there videos of it anywhere?

It always baffles me how incredibly homosexual it is, and yet the type of guys who like it are generally alpha-male guys who use words like "gay" and "faggot" as insults.

Seriously, who, other than gay men, would want to watch a couple of sweaty dudes with no shirts on 69 each other?

Shut up. Seriously, if all you're gonna say is "lol mma is teh gay hur hur", then just leave.