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Xeogred
Thunderbolt from Hell

Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:28 pm
Posts: 6445
Location: Valhalla
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:45 am 
 

I wonder if that'll be all over Cyberpunk. It's all too easy to squeeze in lots of sex in cyberpunk sci-fi. lol

Not sure why Dragon's Crown has spawned so much heat over that debate though... Mai Shiranui's been around since 1993!

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Varth
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:18 pm
Posts: 117
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:11 am 
 

I find Fist of The North Star: Ken Rage for Xbox360 to be highly addictive despite being a not so great game. I do a thing where I buy games 3-4 year after they come out so they're only 7-12 bucks and I just got the first Bioshock and Batman Arkham City and they're pretty good

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9802
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:54 am 
 

Sexism in the Witcher 2 (contains very mild, early game spoilers):
http://gamasutra.com/blogs/CodySteffen/ ... cher_2.php

Xeogred wrote:
Not sure why Dragon's Crown has spawned so much heat over that debate though... Mai Shiranui's been around since 1993!

The problem isn't just that the sorceress has big bouncing breasts (which she does, mind you, and her breasts are so ridiculously large each one is larger than her head). It's that every female character is a sex object (except the elf), including numerous NPCs you encounter (and they've all seem to have a deer-in-the-headlight dead eyes which honestly creeps me out a bit... the princess Vivian, one of the few female NPCs who isn't overtly sexualized, is even described to be "staring blankly" at some point, haha). It's borderline softcore at this point. I mean for crying out loud, there's a mermaid who actually has a (perfectly round) human ass above her fish tail... :lol:
The funny thing is that the creepiest female NPC is fully "armoured" (with very prominent boob plate of course)... but her pose is grotesque, with her legs spread wide open revealing a chastity belt, and she's been injured of course, so she makes this nasty moaning sound... it creeps me out more than all the naked chicks, to be honest, every time I encounter her I try to skip that part as fast as possible, it's pretty :ugh:.

I mean I love the game and I've been playing it for countless hours, don't get me wrong, and yes all the art style is over the top in general, but even with that excuse it's still pretty creepy and sexist.

Here are some pics (might be kinda NSFW), and with the sound and semi-animation it's a lot creepier, trust me:

Spoiler: show
The item vendor:
Image
The female monk in question :ugh:
Image
The mermaid with the porn star butt:
Image
A few obligatory damsels in distress, such as this "half naked woman" (even described as such by the game's narrator xD) and village girls that you need to rescue from vampires:
Image
Image

Some artwork you can unlock by doing side-quests...
Image
Image
Image


So... yeah. There's male gaze pandering, and there's... this. :P Though at least, unlike The Witcher 2, Dragon's Crown's story and characters don't take themselves seriously...
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4629
Location: 50 Forts Along the Rhine
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:05 am 
 

Xeogred wrote:
Not sure why Dragon's Crown has spawned so much heat over that debate though... Mai Shiranui's been around since 1993!

I wouldn't exactly call this a "debate". Jim sums it up pretty well:

Quote:
Especially when gamers, men or women, who want something else, have so very few alternatives when it comes to femal avatars in games. It's either play a game with maniacal, wobbly breasts or replay Beyond Good And Evil for the fifteenth fucking time.

:|
_________________
Metantoine wrote:
If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?
CorpseFister wrote:
Personally, I prefer to know nothing of the esoteric hierarchy of MA and the profane rituals required to attain rank.

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darkeningday
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 2240
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:46 am 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Sexism in the Witcher 2 (contains very mild, early game spoilers):
http://gamasutra.com/blogs/CodySteffen/ ... cher_2.php

This author doesn't seem to understand the difference between content and intent; i.e., writing a character (even a main character) who is sexist does not make the author or her/his work sexist. Geralt, a static, decades old character is an old-world sexist who is not (and should not be) re-written to appeal to the whims of a new writer. That does not mean the game he inhabits is sexist.

Because it isn't. Saskia, an unromancable, armor-clad leader, is leagues more competent, intelligent and layered than pretty much any other character in the game, including the main protagonist. It isn't surprising the author left her out completely as she'd pretty much shatter his entire thesis.

I'm not going to disagree that there is fuckloads of sexism present in even the latest high-profile videogames on the market. However, The Witcher 2 simply is not one of them, at least when taken as a whole.
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OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
Posts: 9882
Location: Seattle, United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:36 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
Morrigan wrote:
Sexism in the Witcher 2 (contains very mild, early game spoilers):
http://gamasutra.com/blogs/CodySteffen/ ... cher_2.php

This author doesn't seem to understand the difference between content and intent; i.e., writing a character (even a main character) who is sexist does not make the author or her/his work sexist. Geralt, a static, decades old character is an old-world sexist who is not (and should not be) re-written to appeal to the whims of a new writer. That does not mean the game he inhabits is sexist.

Because it isn't. Saskia, an unromancable, armor-clad leader, is leagues more competent, intelligent and layered than pretty much any other character in the game, including the main protagonist. It isn't surprising the author left her out completely as she'd pretty much shatter his entire thesis.

I'm not going to disagree that there is fuckloads of sexism present in even the latest high-profile videogames on the market. However, The Witcher 2 simply is not one of them, at least when taken as a whole.

I'll back this up, too. The Witcher universe is one of inequality and discrimination in a medieval setting, so of course women would be seen as secondary. It's an ugly world and one where men are (not always) the powerful. I can't disagree with what sexism there is, but it's definitely not on the same level as say that Dragon's Crown thing - that looks like straight up hentai.
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Yesterday was the birthday of school pal and I met the chick of my sigh (I've talked about here before, the she-wolf I use to be inlove with)... Maaan she was using a mini-skirt too damn insane... Dude you could saw her entire soul every time she sit...

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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4629
Location: 50 Forts Along the Rhine
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:40 pm 
 

Started Dark Souls. This is one of the worst games for beginners I've ever played. Something like a learning curve is virtually nonexistent. And yes, I consider that bad game design (sorry for not being 1337 enough to see the genius in it). I hope it starts to be fun soon because at the moment it's little more than a frustrating grind. I even followed Morrigan's advice to decrease difficulty by starting as a Pyromancer with Twin Humanities - well so far Pyromancy is pretty much fucking near useless, being able to cast a weak ass fireball 8 times isn't exactly helpful. What would be useful is an armor, since of course now I end up using melee almost all the time. Are the differences between the classes supposed to show at some point or is the only difference that I can use Pyromancy from the beginning (instead of, like, having an armor for all the melee that can't be avoided)?
_________________
Metantoine wrote:
If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?
CorpseFister wrote:
Personally, I prefer to know nothing of the esoteric hierarchy of MA and the profane rituals required to attain rank.


Last edited by inhumanist on Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9802
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:56 pm 
 

inhumanist wrote:
Xeogred wrote:
Not sure why Dragon's Crown has spawned so much heat over that debate though... Mai Shiranui's been around since 1993!

I wouldn't exactly call this a "debate". Jim sums it up pretty well:

Quote:
Especially when gamers, men or women, who want something else, have so very few alternatives when it comes to femal avatars in games. It's either play a game with maniacal, wobbly breasts or replay Beyond Good And Evil for the fifteenth fucking time.

:|

Jim nails it, as always.

darkeningday wrote:
This author doesn't seem to understand the difference between content and intent; i.e., writing a character (even a main character) who is sexist does not make the author or her/his work sexist. Geralt, a static, decades old character is an old-world sexist who is not (and should not be) re-written to appeal to the whims of a new writer. That does not mean the game he inhabits is sexist.

Bollocks. If Geralt is static and pre-written, why are there even dialogue choices? And you ignored the rest of the article, such as so-called strong female characters still needing a male hero to rescue her, and the focus on looking at boobies, etc. The game is obviously pandering, and if you can't understand that it might turn off female gamers, well... *shrugs*

Quote:
Because it isn't. Saskia, an unromancable, armor-clad leader, is leagues more competent, intelligent and layered than pretty much any other character in the game, including the main protagonist. It isn't surprising the author left her out completely as she'd pretty much shatter his entire thesis.

How does one counter-example "shatter" what is described as a trend? The presence of the elf in Dragon's Crown doesn't negate all the other objectified females.

OzzyApu wrote:
I'll back this up, too. The Witcher universe is one of inequality and discrimination in a medieval setting, so of course women would be seen as secondary. It's an ugly world and one where men are (not always) the powerful. I can't disagree with what sexism there is, but it's definitely not on the same level as say that Dragon's Crown thing - that looks like straight up hentai.

I'm a little appalled that you'd think I'm so stupid that I can't understand the difference between a sexist setting and sexist writing. Considering I'm a huge fan of A Song of Ice and Fire, where Westeros is an obviously patriarchal society, it goes without saying that the problem the article author has isn't with the setting.

inhumanist wrote:
Started Dark Souls. This is one of the worst games for beginners I've ever played.

:lol: That's probably the single funniest thing ever posted in this thread. Good job. :thumbsup: Babby gamers FTW. I suggest you give up if you're struggling with such basics as... blocking and evading.
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4629
Location: 50 Forts Along the Rhine
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:59 pm 
 

Just to clarify, I'm talking about Dark Souls beginners, not general gaming noobs. I'm not one of those.
Morrigan wrote:
I suggest you give up if you're struggling with such basics as... blocking and evading.

I figured those out rather quickly. My points still stand.
_________________
Metantoine wrote:
If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?
CorpseFister wrote:
Personally, I prefer to know nothing of the esoteric hierarchy of MA and the profane rituals required to attain rank.

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OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
Posts: 9882
Location: Seattle, United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:06 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
OzzyApu wrote:
I'll back this up, too. The Witcher universe is one of inequality and discrimination in a medieval setting, so of course women would be seen as secondary. It's an ugly world and one where men are (not always) the powerful. I can't disagree with what sexism there is, but it's definitely not on the same level as say that Dragon's Crown thing - that looks like straight up hentai.

I'm a little appalled that you'd think I'm so stupid that I can't understand the difference between a sexist setting and sexist writing. Considering I'm a huge fan of A Song of Ice and Fire, where Westeros is an obviously patriarchal society, it goes without saying that the problem the article author has isn't with the setting.

First off, appalled is quite strong. Second, I don't think you're stupid for this. In fact, I'm not even making the connection between your argument and the discussion (though I did say I was backing up darkeningday, which is worse). You just introduced me to a game called Dragon's Crown with your post, and I made the comparison between the game and The Witcher. I also don't know what A Song of Ice and Fire, so that didn't matter to me. Anyway, I'll just drop it here since I've got nothing else.
_________________
gomorro wrote:
Yesterday was the birthday of school pal and I met the chick of my sigh (I've talked about here before, the she-wolf I use to be inlove with)... Maaan she was using a mini-skirt too damn insane... Dude you could saw her entire soul every time she sit...

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9802
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:20 pm 
 

inhumanist wrote:
Just to clarify, I'm talking about Dark Souls beginners, not general gaming noobs. I'm not one of those.

Dark Souls will be the judge of that. :D

OzzyApu wrote:
First off, appalled is quite strong. Second, I don't think you're stupid for this. In fact, I'm not even making the connection between your argument and the discussion (though I did say I was backing up darkeningday, which is worse). You just introduced me to a game called Dragon's Crown with your post, and I made the comparison between the game and The Witcher. I also don't know what A Song of Ice and Fire, so that didn't matter to me. Anyway, I'll just drop it here since I've got nothing else.

Neither games are hatefully misogynistic or anything like that, but both have sexism, just in slightly different ways (though both games are guilty of obvious pandering and male gaze fan service). I'm not sure which type of sexism alienates me more, but the Witcher 2 gameplay turned me off completely, at least Dragon's Crown is fun with good combat. ;)
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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SadisticGratification
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:00 pm
Posts: 406
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:26 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Sexism in the Witcher 2 (contains very mild, early game spoilers):
http://gamasutra.com/blogs/CodySteffen/ ... cher_2.php

Xeogred wrote:
Not sure why Dragon's Crown has spawned so much heat over that debate though... Mai Shiranui's been around since 1993!

The problem isn't just that the sorceress has big bouncing breasts (which she does, mind you, and her breasts are so ridiculously large each one is larger than her head). It's that every female character is a sex object (except the elf), including numerous NPCs you encounter (and they've all seem to have a deer-in-the-headlight dead eyes which honestly creeps me out a bit... the princess Vivian, one of the few female NPCs who isn't overtly sexualized, is even described to be "staring blankly" at some point, haha). It's borderline softcore at this point. I mean for crying out loud, there's a mermaid who actually has a (perfectly round) human ass above her fish tail... :lol:
The funny thing is that the creepiest female NPC is fully "armoured" (with very prominent boob plate of course)... but her pose is grotesque, with her legs spread wide open revealing a chastity belt, and she's been injured of course, so she makes this nasty moaning sound... it creeps me out more than all the naked chicks, to be honest, every time I encounter her I try to skip that part as fast as possible, it's pretty :ugh:.

I mean I love the game and I've been playing it for countless hours, don't get me wrong, and yes all the art style is over the top in general, but even with that excuse it's still pretty creepy and sexist.

Here are some pics (might be kinda NSFW), and with the sound and semi-animation it's a lot creepier, trust me:

Spoiler: show
The item vendor:
Image
The female monk in question :ugh:
Image
The mermaid with the porn star butt:
Image
A few obligatory damsels in distress, such as this "half naked woman" (even described as such by the game's narrator xD) and village girls that you need to rescue from vampires:
Image
Image

Some artwork you can unlock by doing side-quests...
Image
Image
Image


So... yeah. There's male gaze pandering, and there's... this. :P Though at least, unlike The Witcher 2, Dragon's Crown's story and characters don't take themselves seriously...


To be honest with you I don't think it was a game design decision for such rampant sexism in the Witcher series, it's more to do with what the game is based off and as far as I'm aware the novels are 50% fantasy and 50% erotic novel :P I will agree with you there is a lot of tits in that game :lol: every female has big boobs that are to the forefront :lol: I wouldn't blame the game designers for that. Well not fully anyway :-D

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Xeogred
Thunderbolt from Hell

Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:28 pm
Posts: 6445
Location: Valhalla
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:26 pm 
 

lmao, I guess the Dragon's Crown stuff is a bit more extreme than I suspected.

Dark Souls early design is just trial and error, like every single 16bit era game out there. You're going to die. Get back up, learn from your mistakes, and get better. I need more games like Dark Souls that don't hold my hands.

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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4629
Location: 50 Forts Along the Rhine
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:05 pm 
 

We aren't in the 16bit era anymore though. And those games generally had much simpler gameplay to figure out. I know dying a lot and trial and error is part of the Dark Souls experience. It's just that there isn't much to learn from fighting through the same enemies again and again just to be one or two hitted by the boss at the end. Are you seriously expecting me to have fun while doing this 30 times just to try and error all the 30 different ways one can aproach said boss (exaggerating a bit here it was more like 4 times cause I'm just that good :wink: ) just to end up tanking (as a Pyromancer) because that seems to be the only way with a slight chance of survival? I assume this will be different when I get the hang of it and start figuring out tactics to improve my chances, but the problem with that is that consequently the game is least enjoyable at the very beginning. "Hand holding" is just an vague derogatory phrase. There needs to be a minimum of "hand holding" in every game with of some complexity, otherwise there is no accessibility for anyone, not even 1337 hardcore gam0rz. But I guess you'd be happier if the "hand holding" messages in the first area - telling you how to block, attack etc. - weren't there because you'd rather figured that out through trial and error as well. Complicated = challenging = fun amirite? /rant

Really all I'm asking for is maybe a few more of those messages.
_________________
Metantoine wrote:
If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?
CorpseFister wrote:
Personally, I prefer to know nothing of the esoteric hierarchy of MA and the profane rituals required to attain rank.


Last edited by inhumanist on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Marag
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: down there where chaos prevails
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:06 pm 
 

Xeogred wrote:
lmao, I guess the Dragon's Crown stuff is a bit more extreme than I suspected.


Vanillaware seemed to have a knack for putting gratuitous tits and ass in their other games(one kitsune in Muramsa had breasts rivalling the sorceress in DC) but they have outdone themselves this time lol, it borders on hentai.

inhumanist wrote:
Started Dark Souls. This is one of the worst games for beginners I've ever played. Something like a learning curve is virtually nonexistent. And yes, I consider that bad game design (sorry for not being 1337 enough to see the genius in it).

GET GØØD OR DIE TRYIN
The first few times will feel like a bucket of cold water, but you will learn to adapt. I agree with Xeogred, more games need to adopt this approach.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9802
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:17 pm 
 

inhumanist wrote:
We aren't in the 16bit era anymore though.

More's the pity.
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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BlindTortureKill
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:57 am
Posts: 1219
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:23 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Quote:
Because it isn't. Saskia, an unromancable, armor-clad leader, is leagues more competent, intelligent and layered than pretty much any other character in the game, including the main protagonist. It isn't surprising the author left her out completely as she'd pretty much shatter his entire thesis.

How does one counter-example "shatter" what is described as a trend? The presence of the elf in Dragon's Crown doesn't negate all the other objectified females.


Well, to turn that around, I don't think the points of:
- A female character gets kidnapped.
- There exist pandering scenes. (though I perfectly understand it could turn woman off)
- the main character handles the topic of gender equality clumsily in conversation.
Inherently imply a trend of deep, insidious sexism either.

Personally, I think it's infinitely more sexist to automatically frame "a character gets kidnapped who is female"
as "This game is saying females are weak, pathetic damsels in distress because one gets kidnapped."

It's not that Saskia is a counter example which would rule out any possible sexism, it's the fact she's such an incredibly obvious one, yet the author doesn't even mention her. or Sile. or Ves.
It shows he's being completely dishonest.

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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 7951
Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:05 pm 
 

SadisticGratification wrote:
To be honest with you I don't think it was a game design decision for such rampant sexism in the Witcher series, it's more to do with what the game is based off and as far as I'm aware the novels are 50% fantasy and 50% erotic novel :P I will agree with you there is a lot of tits in that game :lol: every female has big boobs that are to the forefront :lol: I wouldn't blame the game designers for that. Well not fully anyway :-D


I've read the books and they're far from being 50% erotic novels. In fact, I'd say they generally have less going on romance-wise than the games, even. I think what's going on is that, because the books actually *do* have sex and whatnot in them (compared to utterly sexless stuff like, say, Lord of the Rings), the game designers thought that those elements were ripe for inclusion in the game along with all of the other controversial elements (race relations, terrorism carried out by oppressed minorities, etc.). Like lots of other fantasy worlds (and like real life), Witcherworld is male-dominated and Geralt is a something of a womanizer. I think it's very likely that the game developers ramped up the sexual content some to seem edgy and sell more games, or maybe even because they knew that certain parts of it would get censored by some countries and thus get people talking about the game (and playing it), but I also think that on some level they were just trying to make sure that all of the facets of the books and of Geralt himself were covered in the game.

Not that I'm defending the thing as being inoffensive or anything like that. I just think that it's nowhere near the sort of blatant objectification of something like Dragon's Crown.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9802
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:11 am 
 

BlindTortureKill wrote:
Personally, I think it's infinitely more sexist to automatically frame "a character gets kidnapped who is female"
as "This game is saying females are weak, pathetic damsels in distress because one gets kidnapped."

That makes zero sense. You could argue that it's wrong or irrational or an overreaction or whatever, but "more sexist"? Wha....? :lol:
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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darkeningday
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 2240
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:28 am 
 

Yeah, I'm not terribly sure what BTK's getting at there either unless he's talking about "reverse sexism" which is kind of sort of pretty much not really a thing no matter how many conservative talking heads like to think it is.
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BarryLamarBonds
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:36 pm
Posts: 232
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:20 am 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Sexism in the Witcher 2 (contains very mild, early game spoilers):
http://gamasutra.com/blogs/CodySteffen/ ... cher_2.php

Xeogred wrote:
Not sure why Dragon's Crown has spawned so much heat over that debate though... Mai Shiranui's been around since 1993!

The problem isn't just that the sorceress has big bouncing breasts (which she does, mind you, and her breasts are so ridiculously large each one is larger than her head). It's that every female character is a sex object (except the elf), including numerous NPCs you encounter (and they've all seem to have a deer-in-the-headlight dead eyes which honestly creeps me out a bit... the princess Vivian, one of the few female NPCs who isn't overtly sexualized, is even described to be "staring blankly" at some point, haha). It's borderline softcore at this point. I mean for crying out loud, there's a mermaid who actually has a (perfectly round) human ass above her fish tail... :lol:
The funny thing is that the creepiest female NPC is fully "armoured" (with very prominent boob plate of course)... but her pose is grotesque, with her legs spread wide open revealing a chastity belt, and she's been injured of course, so she makes this nasty moaning sound... it creeps me out more than all the naked chicks, to be honest, every time I encounter her I try to skip that part as fast as possible, it's pretty :ugh:.

I mean I love the game and I've been playing it for countless hours, don't get me wrong, and yes all the art style is over the top in general, but even with that excuse it's still pretty creepy and sexist.

Here are some pics (might be kinda NSFW), and with the sound and semi-animation it's a lot creepier, trust me:

Spoiler: show
The item vendor:
Image
The female monk in question :ugh:
Image
The mermaid with the porn star butt:
Image
A few obligatory damsels in distress, such as this "half naked woman" (even described as such by the game's narrator xD) and village girls that you need to rescue from vampires:
Image
Image

Some artwork you can unlock by doing side-quests...
Image
Image
Image


So... yeah. There's male gaze pandering, and there's... this. :P Though at least, unlike The Witcher 2, Dragon's Crown's story and characters don't take themselves seriously...


10/10, will buy and play Dragon's Crown.

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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4629
Location: 50 Forts Along the Rhine
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:59 am 
 

Those women look like they are made of water baloons, not flesh and bones.

I blame porn.
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If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?
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Sick6Six
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 953
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:50 am 
 

Wow, Dragon's Crown and Dark Souls explosion! Going to have to go back and read all these comments and watch videos, but my first thoughts are:

Dragon's Crown: Can't believe this is such a big fucking deal, the over exaggerated art is nothing but comical, at least the girls have clothes on. I just started playing God of War Ascension finally and why do the GOW games never get any of this attention? They have completely NAKED overly exaggeratedly perfect female bodies. God of War games should be rated A or X because I'm sure there's tons of 10 year olds playing those games whose parents have no idea. Dragon's Crown rules, I already platinumed it and I'm still playing and leveling up other characters with my friends.

Dark Souls: It's very brutal at the beginning if you've never played it before. Once you level up a bit, get some better equipment or summon/get summoned so you can have some allies' help it will be a lot easier. PS kill the undead merchant and take his Uchigatana.
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BlindTortureKill
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:57 am
Posts: 1219
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:11 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
BlindTortureKill wrote:
Personally, I think it's infinitely more sexist to automatically frame "a character gets kidnapped who is female"
as "This game is saying females are weak, pathetic damsels in distress because one gets kidnapped."

That makes zero sense. You could argue that it's wrong or irrational or an overreaction or whatever, but "more sexist"? Wha....? :lol:


To clarify: I'm accusing sexism watchdogs of writing off female characters as weak and dependent prematurely.
To quote from that article:
Quote:
Triss, a powerful sorceress love interest, needs our grizzled hero to rescue her - an overdone plot device that undermines an otherwise strong character

Why this suggestion a female can't possibly still be strong or contributive overall when she's shown being kidnapped? How is that not belittling? Two male characters need to be rescued at a very early point in the game, yet nobody would call them weak for it.

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Sick6Six
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 953
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:38 pm 
 

Word on the street is there's another Dragon's Crown patch coming. The female characters are getting their boob/butt implants removed and the male characters can no longer eat food so they will gradually stop being so damn buff.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9802
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:07 pm 
 

Sick6Six wrote:
Dragon's Crown: Can't believe this is such a big fucking deal,

A discussion on a forum is a "big fucking deal"? Man, you privileged males sure get defensive easily. ;)

Quote:
the over exaggerated art is nothing but comical, at least the girls have clothes on.

Uh, most of them barely do... specifically the NPCs. And the one that's fully armoured, well... read what I wrote, she's somehow the creepiest one.

Quote:
I just started playing God of War Ascension finally and why do the GOW games never get any of this attention?

Yeah, no one has ever criticized God of War for its lame fan service and pandering and objectification of women. Nope, that never happened...

BlindTortureKill wrote:
To clarify: I'm accusing sexism watchdogs of writing off female characters as weak and dependent prematurely.
To quote from that article:
Quote:
Triss, a powerful sorceress love interest, needs our grizzled hero to rescue her - an overdone plot device that undermines an otherwise strong character

Why this suggestion a female can't possibly still be strong or contributive overall when she's shown being kidnapped? How is that not belittling? Two male characters need to be rescued at a very early point in the game, yet nobody would call them weak for it.

I suggest you look up what "undermine" means.
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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Sick6Six
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 953
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:15 pm 
 

I was not talking about it being a big fucking deal on the forums at all, I meant all the arguments between video game companies. Also I was playing Xbox during the time all the God of War games came out so I guess I just didn't notice. Wasn't being defensive about anything and I think the whole situation is entertaining. Dragon's Crown is a badass game and that's all I care about.
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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4629
Location: 50 Forts Along the Rhine
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:17 pm 
 

"between video game companies" :???:

Maybe you mean game creators and journalists?
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Metantoine wrote:
If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?
CorpseFister wrote:
Personally, I prefer to know nothing of the esoteric hierarchy of MA and the profane rituals required to attain rank.

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Sick6Six
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 953
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:22 pm 
 

yes, well the creators work at the companies no? I work at one myself and there's been a lot of talk about it here too. I have not delved to deep into what everyone is saying I just know there's been a lot of bickering and name calling going back and forth between creators/artists/writers whatever. Anyway the point is none of it matters!
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9802
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:32 pm 
 

Guess he's talking about Jason Schreier (sp?) from Kotaku and George Kamitani (why are these names so hard to spell?) having their little spat, but how they kissed and made up came to a polite understanding was already addressed in the Jim Sterling video on the previous page... nothing I would ever call a "big fucking deal".
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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Sick6Six
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 953
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:36 pm 
 

You win, and thanks for that video it was funny.
Edit: I think you blew my "big fucking deal" out of proportion a bit... There have been numerous people bitching about dragons crowns artwork since the game was first announced even, not just that one case. There was another developer who posted something including swears and LOLs. All I meant was it seems to be a stupid thing for all these people to argue about. Wasnt trying to start an argument of our own :) In other video game news GTA IV just killed a grandmother
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BarryLamarBonds
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:36 pm
Posts: 232
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:17 pm 
 

Sick6Six wrote:
Word on the street is there's another Dragon's Crown patch coming. The female characters are getting their boob/butt implants removed and the male characters can no longer eat food so they will gradually stop being so damn buff.


This a substantiated claim, something you heard from someone at Atlus, or are you just speculating/trolling? If this happens I'll just wait until DC hits the bargain bin before picking it up.


Last edited by BarryLamarBonds on Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Marag
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: down there where chaos prevails
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:18 pm 
 

Obviously taking the piss.

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BarryLamarBonds
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:36 pm
Posts: 232
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:20 pm 
 

Marag wrote:
Obviously taking the piss.


I'm getting old. As a result, my internet skills are declining.

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Marag
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: down there where chaos prevails
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:22 pm 
 

It's not much of a loss anyway.

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Smoking_Gnu
Chicago Favorite

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:22 pm
Posts: 2722
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:31 am 
 

inhumanist wrote:
Just to clarify, I'm talking about Dark Souls beginners, not general gaming noobs. I'm not one of those.
Morrigan wrote:
I suggest you give up if you're struggling with such basics as... blocking and evading.

I figured those out rather quickly. My points still stand.


You must not be playing very smart then, since a pyromancy fireball will kill a skeleton in one (maybe two? don't remember) hit if you time it properly, and your full arsenal of them can take the Berg's boss down to about 1/4 HP. I suck at a lot of strategic combat games, but I never found Dark Souls to be improperly structured in terms of teaching you stuff.

Admittedly, the one spot I came close to rage-quitting was Sen's Fortress, mostly because

Spoiler: show
I didn't know there was that hidden bonfire on the roof, so I thought you had to run through the whole damn fortress every time you died to the Iron Golem. :lol:


But now that's done and I'm taking on Anor Lando and The Giant Tombs and they're both fucking awesome. Rocking the Black Iron Armor, a Divine Gargoyle's Halberd and the Great Chaos Fireball.
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Xeogred
Thunderbolt from Hell

Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:28 pm
Posts: 6445
Location: Valhalla
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:17 am 
 

Anor Lando blew my face off. If only something like this kicked in when you landed there... haha. I still wish Dark Souls had a bit more music going. In fact, I thought DMC's OST stood out a ton (looked into it and turns out it was the RE1-3 composer, go figure), and kind of figured some of the stuff from that game would have been fitting in Dark Souls. Stuff like this would have been awesome:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEEhlZnTavs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IQcTcxzCyw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-AAu0Osxms

Loved this one... my friend summed it up saying it's like Berserk Eclipse stuff, haha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZBK-d1Ga0

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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4629
Location: 50 Forts Along the Rhine
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:27 am 
 

Smoking_Gnu wrote:
[You must not be playing very smart then, since a pyromancy fireball will kill a skeleton in one (maybe two? don't remember) hit if you time it properly, and your full arsenal of them can take the Berg's boss down to about 1/4 HP.

I figured that too. You only got 8 of them though. No point wasting them on skeletons. They are useful against some bosses. The slow ones - since it takes so long to cast one.
_________________
Metantoine wrote:
If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?
CorpseFister wrote:
Personally, I prefer to know nothing of the esoteric hierarchy of MA and the profane rituals required to attain rank.


Last edited by inhumanist on Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9802
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:28 am 
 

You start with 8. With more attunement you can have more magic later. For now 8 is plenty without being OP.
Smoking_Gnu wrote:
Sen's Fortress:
Spoiler: show
I didn't know there was that hidden bonfire on the roof, so I thought you had to run through the whole damn fortress every time you died to the Iron Golem. :lol:



Er... about Sen's Fortress,
Spoiler: show
even if you miss that bonfire, you do realize you can unlock the cage shortcut with the same key you use to free Big Hat Logan, right?
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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Sick6Six
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 953
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:39 am 
 

BarryLamarBonds wrote:
Sick6Six wrote:
Word on the street is there's another Dragon's Crown patch coming. The female characters are getting their boob/butt implants removed and the male characters can no longer eat food so they will gradually stop being so damn buff.


This a substantiated claim, something you heard from someone at Atlus, or are you just speculating/trolling? If this happens I'll just wait until DC hits the bargain bin before picking it up.

I didn't think I needed to use the global Internet sarcasm font for this one :boo:
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