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mr macabre
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Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2023 3:06 am
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:11 am 
 

How many other avowed Satanists are here on the forum? If so, are you a theistic Satanist, or a non-theistic one? I've been an Atheist my entire life, despite being born into a catholic family. I've read Anton Lavey's writings about his Church of Satan, where he states that we are the only ones that decide what our lives will be like. There are no outside influences, we control our own fates.

TST, The Satanic Temple, was founded by Lucian Greaves to battle for the rights to establish Satanism as a legitimate religion, with the same rights as the christian organizations trying to shove their beliefs into public areas where it doesn't belong. And they won, TST is recognized as an official non profit religious organization.
Both organizations are basically Atheists pushing back against christianity by using their own sigils/symbols to mock and humiliate them. The inverted crucifix is a personal favorite of mine, along with the sigil of Baphomet, and the pentagram.

I'm an Atheist first, and a Satanist second. I enjoy doing my part to oppose christianity, or any other form of organized religion. I wear those symbols, including the sigil of Lucifer, on my skin, and on the concert shirts that I wear every day.
If you practice theistic Satanism, you're in the minority, but I'd like to know more about what you really believe/practice.

Even if I wasn't a metal head that listens to this music every day, and enjoys the subject matter and imagery associated with it, I'd still be an Atheist. I'm an Atheist who loves listening to black/death metal music, and always will.
To the death.

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deadtome
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Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:48 am
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:40 am 
 

While I feel religion is kind of silly, I guess being a satanist means you think you're going to a 'hell' after death? If there is an afterlife I wonder why and IF one would chose 'eternal damnation'? Since satanists believe in satan do they also believe in 'god'? Can't have one without the other right? I mean, isn't satan just an ex, cast down angel that got kicked off the board of angels? Do satanists still reckognize god and just not like god?
Is satans only agenda pain, suffering, evil and ultimately death? Claiming your soul and free will? Isn't satanism just another form of religion?
Since you claim satan can ya help me understand?

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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 8:10 am 
 

deadtome wrote:
While I feel religion is kind of silly, I guess being a satanist means you think you're going to a 'hell' after death? If there is an afterlife I wonder why and IF one would chose 'eternal damnation'? Since satanists believe in satan do they also believe in 'god'? Can't have one without the other right? I mean, isn't satan just an ex, cast down angel that got kicked off the board of angels? Do satanists still reckognize god and just not like god?
Is satans only agenda pain, suffering, evil and ultimately death? Claiming your soul and free will? Isn't satanism just another form of religion?
Since you claim satan can ya help me understand?


It's my understanding that only a small minority of those who classify themselves as Satanists are of the theistic type, as mentioned in the original post. In other words, they don't believe in gods or devils, and accordingly, don't subscribe to the idea of heavens or hells.

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Disembodied
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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:29 am
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 8:26 am 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
deadtome wrote:
While I feel religion is kind of silly, I guess being a satanist means you think you're going to a 'hell' after death? If there is an afterlife I wonder why and IF one would chose 'eternal damnation'? Since satanists believe in satan do they also believe in 'god'? Can't have one without the other right? I mean, isn't satan just an ex, cast down angel that got kicked off the board of angels? Do satanists still reckognize god and just not like god?
Is satans only agenda pain, suffering, evil and ultimately death? Claiming your soul and free will? Isn't satanism just another form of religion?
Since you claim satan can ya help me understand?


It's my understanding that only a small minority of those who classify themselves as Satanists are of the theistic type, as mentioned in the original post. In other words, they don't believe in gods or devils, and accordingly, don't subscribe to the idea of heavens or hells.


If that's the kind of belief we're talking about I struggle to see how Satanism is a middle finger to Christianity. The part in the old testament describing Adam's state in the garden of Eden is a reference to this belief and it's one that Christianity, properly understood, is supposed to remedy. So really, Christianity is as much a middle finger to Satanism, if not more so.

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lostalbumguru
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Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:55 am
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 9:19 am 
 

...


Last edited by lostalbumguru on Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lostalbumguru
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 9:22 am 
 

I'm curious as to what draws people to extreme things like satanism etc...


Last edited by lostalbumguru on Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 9:55 am 
 

Disembodied wrote:
Benedict Donald wrote:
deadtome wrote:
While I feel religion is kind of silly, I guess being a satanist means you think you're going to a 'hell' after death? If there is an afterlife I wonder why and IF one would chose 'eternal damnation'? Since satanists believe in satan do they also believe in 'god'? Can't have one without the other right? I mean, isn't satan just an ex, cast down angel that got kicked off the board of angels? Do satanists still reckognize god and just not like god?
Is satans only agenda pain, suffering, evil and ultimately death? Claiming your soul and free will? Isn't satanism just another form of religion?
Since you claim satan can ya help me understand?


It's my understanding that only a small minority of those who classify themselves as Satanists are of the theistic type, as mentioned in the original post. In other words, they don't believe in gods or devils, and accordingly, don't subscribe to the idea of heavens or hells.


If that's the kind of belief we're talking about I struggle to see how Satanism is a middle finger to Christianity. The part in the old testament describing Adam's state in the garden of Eden is a reference to this belief and it's one that Christianity, properly understood, is supposed to remedy. So really, Christianity is as much a middle finger to Satanism, if not more so.


Regarding theistic Satanism, I don't disagree. I fact, I would argue that all religions, particularly the Abrahamic faiths, can only be a middle-finger to all other religions. To claim one's beliefs are unquestionable truth presupposes that the tenets of other faiths are, by definition, false. It's the fundamental flaw in Abrahamic theistic belief and why it's long been among the roots of human conflict.

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deadtome
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 10:01 am 
 

Hopefully Mr Op will come back and expound on his outlook a bit more and maybe panel some of the questions. I'm not trying to be a smart arse about it either by no means....not shooting any arrows or anything of the sort. I am genuinely curious how it's viewed and my questions still stand.
I was raised roman catholic (yah I know), was baptized, confirmed, went to Sunday school, was an alter boy....actually one of my favorite things was to get the church smokey as shite from the incense lol.

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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 11:27 am 
 

deadtome wrote:
I was raised roman catholic (yah I know), was baptized, confirmed, went to Sunday school, was an alter boy....actually one of my favorite things was to get the church smokey as shite from the incense lol.


LOL....same here.
In fact, I was the 'president' of the Alter boys society at my church growing up. Indeed, I was very religious through my adolescent years. But, I ultimately "retired" from theistic belief by the time I was 21 or 22.

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kazhard
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 11:49 am 
 

This is embarassing to say the least.
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deadtome
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:44 pm 
 

kazhard wrote:
This is embarassing to say the least.

Imagine a group of men sitting together at a round table discussing religion, theology, satanism.....then someone comes in and declares this is embarrassing.
If that is what you'd say least, then what would you say most?

Ca va tre mal?

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kazhard
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:49 pm 
 

I would refer you to the OP. It's pretty embarassing.
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deadtome
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:51 pm 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
deadtome wrote:
I was raised roman catholic (yah I know), was baptized, confirmed, went to Sunday school, was an alter boy....actually one of my favorite things was to get the church smokey as shite from the incense lol.


LOL....same here.
In fact, I was the 'president' of the Alter boys society at my church growing up. Indeed, I was very religious through my adolescent years. But, I ultimately "retired" from theistic belief by the time I was 21 or 22.

Well then Mr President! :)

I too 'retired' as it just became too overwhelming and as I did enjoy it as a youngster, I felt I needed to move on. It's tough to shake the catholic upbringing though and I will say it instilled some pretty good morals from an early age. Having said that, I don't attend now and also don't require my kids do either.
I'd also add I always loved the Wednesday night 'meager meals' at the church of soup and bread. And holidays meals were always superb, then again my mother was a great cook. Easter was always great as we're Ukrainian (decent) and always made the special eggs with wax and dyes....maybe you know the ones.

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deadtome
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:52 pm 
 

kazhard wrote:
I would refer you to the OP. It's pretty embarassing.

Sorry what?
My French isn't so good. :scratch: :scratch:
No but really, not trying to be a shite, just saying.....you spelled embarrassing wrong again :)

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kazhard
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:54 pm 
 

deadtome wrote:
kazhard wrote:
I would refer you to the OP. It's pretty embarassing.

Sorry what?
My French isn't so good. :scratch: :scratch:
No but really, not trying to be a shite, just saying.....you spelled embarrassing wrong again :)


So is my finnish but I understand you. Cut the bullshit.

Edit: Uh-oh, it's the grammar police!
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deadtome
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 1:00 pm 
 

kazhard wrote:
deadtome wrote:
kazhard wrote:
I would refer you to the OP. It's pretty embarassing.

Sorry what?
My French isn't so good. :scratch: :scratch:
No but really, not trying to be a shite, just saying.....you spelled embarrassing wrong again :)


So is my finnish but I understand you. Cut the bullshit.

Edit: Uh-oh, it's the grammar police!

Oh come on man I didn't mean anything by it :beer:

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kazhard
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 1:03 pm 
 

deadtome wrote:
Oh come on man I didn't mean anything by it :beer:


My apologies then, mate.
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Defenestrated
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 1:15 pm 
 

There's an old meme about the world's religious traditions distilled into "nuggets" (lol) of wisdom, as follows -

Spoiler: show
Taoism: Shit happens.
Buddhism: If shit happens, it's not really shit.
Islam: If shit happens, it's the will of Allah.
Judaism: Why does this shit always happen to us?
Hinduism: This shit has happened before.
Protestantism: Shit happens because you don't work hard enough.
Catholicism: Shit happens because you deserve it.
Calvinism: This shit was bound to happen.
Zen: What is the sound of shit happening?
Agnosticism: We don't know shit.
Jehovah's Witnesses: Let us in and we'll tell you why shit happens.
Atheism: No shit.
Rastafarianism: Let's smoke this shit!


What would Satanism's be? The only one I managed to find was "SNEPPAH TIHS."

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pyratebastard
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 2:21 pm 
 

kazhard wrote:
This is embarassing to say the least.


Hey everyone, the guy who decided that everyone is 'antisemitic' for no reason in the "Not the US Politics" thread thinks that this discussion is embarrassing. What will we ever do?
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kazhard
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 2:30 pm 
 

pyratebastard wrote:
kazhard wrote:
This is embarassing to say the least.


Hey everyone, the guy who decided that everyone is 'antisemitic' for no reason in the "Not the US Politics" thread thinks that this discussion is embarrassing. What will we ever do?


Oh yeah, there was definitely antisemitism over there, barely veiled.
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pyratebastard
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:13 pm 
 

kazhard wrote:
pyratebastard wrote:
kazhard wrote:
This is embarassing to say the least.


Hey everyone, the guy who decided that everyone is 'antisemitic' for no reason in the "Not the US Politics" thread thinks that this discussion is embarrassing. What will we ever do?


Oh yeah, there was definitely antisemitism over there, barely veiled.


No, there wasn't.

You're all nuggets and no wisdom, my friend.
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kazhard
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:17 pm 
 

What’s your point? If the cap fits ya know…
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mr macabre
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:36 pm 
 

deadtome wrote:
While I feel religion is kind of silly, I guess being a satanist means you think you're going to a 'hell' after death? If there is an afterlife I wonder why and IF one would chose 'eternal damnation'? Since satanists believe in satan do they also believe in 'god'? Can't have one without the other right? I mean, isn't satan just an ex, cast down angel that got kicked off the board of angels? Do satanists still reckognize god and just not like god?
Is satans only agenda pain, suffering, evil and ultimately death? Claiming your soul and free will? Isn't satanism just another form of religion?
Since you claim satan can ya help me understand?

I think of myself as a non-theistic Satanist, which in my opinion is just an Atheist that likes to oppose christianity, but doesn't believe in any god/gods. I don't worship anyone or anything. When we are dead, we simply cease to exist, like before we were born.
I've seen zero evidence for any god/gods during my lifetime, so I don't believe in anything. Only death is real.

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mr macabre
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:53 pm 
 

deadtome wrote:
Hopefully Mr Op will come back and expound on his outlook a bit more and maybe panel some of the questions. I'm not trying to be a smart arse about it either by no means....not shooting any arrows or anything of the sort. I am genuinely curious how it's viewed and my questions still stand.
I was raised roman catholic (yah I know), was baptized, confirmed, went to Sunday school, was an alter boy....actually one of my favorite things was to get the church smokey as shite from the incense lol.


I was raised catholic as well, and went to catholic school for 9 years before I convinced my parents to let me finish in public school. All 3 of my sisters went for all 12 years. I was baptized, received communion, was confirmed, and even married in the church, but even as a kid, I never believes a word of it. I skipped the altar boy thing.

I don't believe in anything, you're born, you live your life, then you die, end of story. I've always been a fan of anything related to Halloween, the Occult, horror films or books, Satanism, Witchcraft, etc. So I naturally oppose any/all forms of organized religion, and don't belong to any groups or organizations.
I'm also heavily tattooed, and 90% of it is either Halloween, Occult, or Atheist themed.
I do consider going to a show to be the same as someone going to "church". It's a group of people gathered together because we all have somethings in common, like the music.

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mr macabre
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:57 pm 
 

kazhard wrote:
I would refer you to the OP. It's pretty embarassing.


Could you be a little more specific?

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kazhard
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 6:07 pm 
 

My only real problem with your post is you’ve mentioned Lucian Greaves. The guy does not represent any form of Satanism whatsoever, his only goal is to provoke. And he never has humiliate anyone except himself and his group. What purpose do you think it serves to rub your testicles against the tombstone of a woman? Granted, it was Fred Phelps’s mother but still. That is not opposing Christianity.
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Disembodied
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 6:14 pm 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
Disembodied wrote:
Benedict Donald wrote:

It's my understanding that only a small minority of those who classify themselves as Satanists are of the theistic type, as mentioned in the original post. In other words, they don't believe in gods or devils, and accordingly, don't subscribe to the idea of heavens or hells.


If that's the kind of belief we're talking about I struggle to see how Satanism is a middle finger to Christianity. The part in the old testament describing Adam's state in the garden of Eden is a reference to this belief and it's one that Christianity, properly understood, is supposed to remedy. So really, Christianity is as much a middle finger to Satanism, if not more so.


Regarding theistic Satanism, I don't disagree. I fact, I would argue that all religions, particularly the Abrahamic faiths, can only be a middle-finger to all other religions. To claim one's beliefs are unquestionable truth presupposes that the tenets of other faiths are, by definition, false. It's the fundamental flaw in Abrahamic theistic belief and why it's long been among the roots of human conflict.


Why not atheistic Satanism then? Or any other atheistic belief? Isn't that as much about someone claiming that they alone wield the power to shape their life, apart from any other power? And isn't that held as an unquestionable truth?

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MetlaNZ
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 6:36 pm 
 

mr macabre wrote:
I think of myself as a non-theistic Satanist, which in my opinion is just an Atheist that likes to oppose christianity, but doesn't believe in any god/gods. I don't worship anyone or anything.

This doesn't make any sense.

mr macabre wrote:
When we are dead, we simply cease to exist, like before we were born.
I've seen zero evidence for any god/gods during my lifetime, so I don't believe in anything. Only death is real.

This does.

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Nocturnal_Evil
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 1:14 pm 
 

MetlaNZ wrote:
mr macabre wrote:
I think of myself as a non-theistic Satanist, which in my opinion is just an Atheist that likes to oppose christianity, but doesn't believe in any god/gods. I don't worship anyone or anything.

This doesn't make any sense.


Yeah, I mean, go ahead and believe in whatever you want (even if it's nothing - which is impossible). I don't get why anyone feels the need to invoke satan in order to feel justified or empowered to do so. One of my chief problems with satanism is that, for all its purported "freedom" and "self-ownership," it still keeps one locked in the religion-based "good v evil" dichotomy. In many cases, it seems like it's just inverse Christianity that runs off nothing but blind spite. Plus, if you're truly "worshipping yourself," why do you feel the need to unite under a mascot?
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Defenestrated
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 1:44 pm 
 

^That's a solid criticism.

I can't say I quite understand the need to make (atheistic) Satanism into a religion. The theme of radical self-determination is not exclusive to it - philosophically, it reminds me of atheistic existentialism a la Nietzsche, Sartre (though I'm not terribly familiar with either). But if you read those guys and happen to deeply admire or identify with them, I figure it might be possible to have a like-minded "club" of fellow admirers, but this would be a far cry from having a religion.

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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 2:06 pm 
 

Nocturnal_Evil wrote:
Plus, if you're truly "worshipping yourself," why do you feel the need to unite under a mascot?


That part. In short, this stuff is all kinda nonsensical (and in today's vernacular, quite heavily CRINGE).
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Nocturnal_Evil
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 4:19 pm 
 

Defenestrated wrote:
I can't say I quite understand the need to make (atheistic) Satanism into a religion. The theme of radical self-determination is not exclusive to it - philosophically, it reminds me of atheistic existentialism a la Nietzsche, Sartre (though I'm not terribly familiar with either).


You're correct insofar as Nieztsche is concerned with radical determinism, with one caveat: he was vehemently against herd mentality (even when said group purportedly stands for "freedom"); therefore he'd likely despise satanism on those grounds too. That's one of the reasons he was so against anti-semites (much to the contrary of public assumption), even going so far as to disown his sister when she fell in love with one! Sartre is a little more "do whatever, man" from what I know, but that's not a lot.
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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 4:31 pm 
 

Nocturnal_Evil wrote:
Defenestrated wrote:
I can't say I quite understand the need to make (atheistic) Satanism into a religion. The theme of radical self-determination is not exclusive to it - philosophically, it reminds me of atheistic existentialism a la Nietzsche, Sartre (though I'm not terribly familiar with either).


You're correct insofar as Nieztsche is concerned with radical determinism, with one caveat: he was vehemently against herd mentality (even when said group purportedly stands for "freedom"); therefore he'd likely despise satanism on those grounds too. That's one of the reasons he was so against anti-semites (much to the contrary of public assumption), even going so far as to disown his sister when she fell in love with one! Sartre is a little more "do whatever, man" from what I know, but that's not a lot.


This was actually one of Anton LaVey's criticisms of the 'movement' he helped launch: that his 'church' ultimately morphed into just another herd (albeit a much smaller one). I'm paraphrasing but that's the sentiment. Everyone dressed the same, looked the same, and essentially just followed the leader. His intent was to gather a collection of Nietzschean "Übermensch" but instead attracted life's losers and social outcasts who were anything but super.

Is true individualism even possible?

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Nocturnal_Evil
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 5:15 pm 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
This was actually one of Anton LaVey's criticisms of the 'movement' he helped launch: that his 'church' ultimately morphed into just another herd (albeit a much smaller one). I'm paraphrasing but that's the sentiment. Everyone dressed the same, looked the same, and essentially just followed the leader. His intent was to gather a collection of Nietzschean "Übermensch" but instead attracted life's losers and social outcasts who were anything but super.

Is true individualism even possible?


Honestly, I think that's exactly what happened. Crowds just seem to do that: they attract the most average/worst of any demographic, and conforming to their dress code and value system is harder to resist the bigger the crowd is. Nieztsche, LaVey, Bukowski, and countless others have commented on that.

And in regards to your question about individualism, I don't think one can ever be a "true" individual: the absolute individual is like a Platonic form or something. Theoretically it can exist if the forms are something you subscribe to, but it's unrealizable in the physical realm. I believe a person's individuality is simply a byproduct of the traits and beliefs they hold: the more atypical the combination, the more individual the person. And accounting for geographical placement has a large part to play in a person's degree of individuality too. So in that sense, I don't believe there are simply "individuals" and "conformists;" rather, "more individualistic" and "less individualistic."
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Defenestrated
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 5:17 pm 
 

Nocturnal_Evil wrote:
Defenestrated wrote:
I can't say I quite understand the need to make (atheistic) Satanism into a religion. The theme of radical self-determination is not exclusive to it - philosophically, it reminds me of atheistic existentialism a la Nietzsche, Sartre (though I'm not terribly familiar with either).


You're correct insofar as Nieztsche is concerned with radical determinism, with one caveat: he was vehemently against herd mentality (even when said group purportedly stands for "freedom"); therefore he'd likely despise satanism on those grounds too. That's one of the reasons he was so against anti-semites (much to the contrary of public assumption), even going so far as to disown his sister when she fell in love with one! Sartre is a little more "do whatever, man" from what I know, but that's not a lot.


Yeah, definitely makes sense that Nietzsche wouldn't be a fan.

I'm not super-knowledgeable about existentialism/Nietzsche etc., have just collected some bits and pieces here and there - basically, it sprang to mind when the OP wrote: "We are the only ones that decide what our lives will be like. There are no outside influences, we control our own fates." Sounded a bit like a Nietzschean theme there - it isn't up to God or anyone else to dictate our conduct and identity - but on second thought, I'm not sure whether the rejection of fatalism would be agreeable to Nietzsche, considering that he denies we have free will, and speaks of the "love of fate." (But Nietzsche wasn't really a systematic thinker, and IIRC was even content to embrace contradictions in his writing, depending on what suited his mood...? Maybe that's a mistaken recollection on my part.)

As for Sartre, I know even less, but I think the standard picture has him railing against "bad faith" - the temptation to disavow responsibility for ourselves by shifting the blame onto some external coercive force, like nature, our social environment, or a creator God. I think he denies that there is such a thing as human nature. "Condemned to be free," etc.

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Disembodied
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 6:10 pm 
 

These ideas aren't sounding all that inconsistent with many monotheistic religions, which say we're created in the image of our creator (that is, free and unchanging). A lot of religions emphasize our own responsibility too rather than blaming or relying on God.

I agree that if Satanism doesn't have anything spiritual or transcendent, then it's hard to see it as a religion. But I wonder if a lot of these philosophies (Satanism included) are at their core closer to religious thinking than we realize, just coming to the same conclusions by different methods.

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Nocturnal_Evil
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 6:53 pm 
 

Defenestrated wrote:
...and IIRC was even content to embrace contradictions in his writing, depending on what suited his mood...? Maybe that's a mistaken recollection on my part.)


That's one of the fascinating parts about his writing, for me. A major part of his whole thesis is: through scientific progress, we've destroyed the ability to honestly believe in a higher power; we've entered a proverbial wilderness in terms of metaphysics and morals. Therefore, he chose to depict this reality via his idiosyncratic prose. His whole project is centered around how to grapple with this new reality. He saw that in his time (and this goes for today as well), we consider ourselves "beyond" religion, yet go about erecting new idols and behaving towards them in the same way we treated the idea of God not too long ago. The man who manages to break this trend and stand out from the herd so profoundly as to appear alien would be what he considered "an ubermensch." It's tragically comedic that this vision would be mutilated and weaponized to provide "philosophical justification" for one of the most devastating herds the world has ever known just a few decades after his death.

Disembodied wrote:
I agree that if Satanism doesn't have anything spiritual or transcendent, then it's hard to see it as a religion. But I wonder if a lot of these philosophies (Satanism included) are at their core closer to religious thinking than we realize, just coming to the same conclusions by different methods.


I totally get what you're saying here. I think a fundamental mistake occurs when we assume religious = bad. Both it and philosophy are aimed at answering the question of "how to live well," and only differ from one another on selected route to that end.
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lostalbumguru
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 11:07 pm 
 

can we just accept the last thing we need is people worshipping themselves a la satanism? Self-care, self-respect, and keeping healthy boundaries are where we need to be. funny hats/outfits, cults, acolytes, brainwashing, dogma, sacred books, all that stuff needs to be fenced in. There's a fine line between personal freedom and people going around being dicks and excessively weird and joining organisations dedicated to even more weirdness.

try not to be a cunt to yourself, or anyone else, the rest is window dressing, albeit sometimes interesting...

there's already an interesting natural world, and more books and tv shows and music than we can ever cope with, and you can do sports, and socialise (I don't recommend it).

sorry, I just felt randomly strongly about the topic.

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pyratebastard
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:31 am 
 

lostalbumguru wrote:
funny hats/outfits, cults, acolytes, brainwashing, dogma, sacred books, all that stuff needs to be fenced in.
there's already an interesting natural world, and more books and tv shows and music than we can ever cope with, and you can do sports, and socialise (I don't recommend it).


In the "Atheism" thread, you just posted that you prefer religion over non-religion for reasons including "ritual, mystery, colour, shade, ceremony". It seems like you are making the opposite argument here.
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lostalbumguru
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:03 am 
 

pyratebastard wrote:
lostalbumguru wrote:
funny hats/outfits, cults, acolytes, brainwashing, dogma, sacred books, all that stuff needs to be fenced in.
there's already an interesting natural world, and more books and tv shows and music than we can ever cope with, and you can do sports, and socialise (I don't recommend it).


In the "Atheism" thread, you just posted that you prefer religion over non-religion for reasons including "ritual, mystery, colour, shade, ceremony". It seems like you are making the opposite argument here.


i make the distinction between funny hats for extreme individualism, and funny hats trying to stop society being a complete mess. though i dont fully like either option, at least with the normaller religious stuff, it regulates society better, and churches look nice and old graveyards are attractive etc...

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