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Samapico
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 253
Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:25 pm

This is beyond stupid...

UK ISPs switch on mass Wikipedia censorship
http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,100000...0331777b,00.htm

Quote:

The following notice has appeared on Wikipedia today when many UK users attempt to edit content:

"Wikipedia has been added to a Internet Watch Foundation UK website blacklist, and your Internet service provider has decided to block part of your access. Unfortunately, this also makes it impossible for us to differentiate between different users, and block those abusing the site without blocking other innocent people as well."

According to discussions on the Wikipedia administrators noticeboard, this is because a transparent proxy has been enabled for customers of Virgin Media, Be/O2/Telefonica, EasyNet/UK Online, PlusNet, Demon and Opal. This has two effects: users cannot see content filtered by the proxies, and all user traffic passing through the proxies is given a single IP address per proxy. As Wikipedia's anti-vandalism system blocks users by IP address, one single case of vandalism by a single UK user prevents all users on that user's ISP from editing. The effect is to block all editing from anonymous UK users on that list of ISPs. Registered users can continue to edit.

The content being filtered is apparently that deemed to meet the Internet Watch Foundation's critera for child pornography – in one case, this involves a 1970s LP cover art which, although controversial, is still widely available.

Reports on the admin noticeboard say that this filtering is easy to circumvent, either by using Wikipedia's secure server or by sending a request to find the page via parameters in the URL. However, no fix has been found – nor is one expected – for the proxy address problem.

"This is the first I've come across UK wide internet censorship, and I'm shocked. I had no idea until now that like China, we too have built a great firewall - only we keep quiet about ours.", user Hahnchen said, on the noticeboard.

Apparently it's because of Scorpions' Virgin Killer cover
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Virgin_Killer.jpg

... Really...

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josephus
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:04 am
Posts: 932
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:48 pm

I tried going to the page for that album, and it goes blank. Seems to be true.
OH MY GOD! Like, there is NO WAY in Hell that we can just look on google for it! Job well done guys, job well done! :rolleyes:

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juicebitch
Juice Bitch

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am
Posts: 1523

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:03 pm

I'm situated in Bath and I have no problem accessing Wikipedia or the Scorpion's album cover page.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10529
Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:41 pm

^^ That's because it depends on the ISP. Still, very retarded idea, quite disgusting too.

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Star-Gazer
Trust and you'll be trusted

Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 1265
Location: United States

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:50 pm

looks like it is happening in Australia as well

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The_Boss
Set Abominae

Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:45 am
Posts: 2743

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:55 pm

Wow this is really dumb. I find it amusing though considering it's the Scorpions of all bands.

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Samapico
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 253
Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:09 pm

It's ironic because by banning it, they actually increased the traffic to that page, and got more people to bypass it. I don't have the stats, but I saw something about the image having a couple hundred thousand hits in the last days because of this

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neonchipmunk
Metalhead

Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 6:03 pm
Posts: 560
Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:14 pm

I was reading in a news article that there has been a complaint made about Amazon too because of the same cover so it may be the next to go.

I was thinking that maybe people should find every instance of that cover on the internet and make a complaint. It is fairly common so after EBay, Amazon, many music sites, ect. disappear maybe there will be enough outcry (if there isn't already) to reverse this stupidity.

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IT_AND_EVIL_ARE_GODS
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:34 pm
Posts: 49
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:39 pm

Why don't they ban the album cover for Nirvana's Nevermind as well? Seems just as bad to me..

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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
Posts: 8855
Location: Yorkshire

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:17 pm

Ugh, no. The Scorpions cover - despite being far less offensive when it actually comes down to the music - is sexualising a clearly under-age girl which is gross, Nirvana's just shows a naked baby. The album called Virgin Killer for fuck's sake!

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juicebitch
Juice Bitch

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am
Posts: 1523

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:23 pm

ANationalAcrobat wrote:

Ugh, no. The Scorpions cover - despite being far less offensive when it actually comes down to the music - is sexualising a clearly under-age girl in pretty gross terms. Nirvana's just shows a naked baby. The album called Virgin Killer for fuck's sake!

This sounds quite rational. However I still don't think it should be filtered.

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IT_AND_EVIL_ARE_GODS
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:34 pm
Posts: 49
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:23 pm

I suppose. I guess I didn't really pay attention to the fact that it was called "Virgin Killer" :lol:

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oneyoudontknow
Cum insantientibus furere necesse est.

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 6:25 pm
Posts: 5343
Location: Germany

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:31 pm

it is all over now. The site has been unbanned again. The folks behind the IWF did the worst thing they could do: draw attention to a topic they wanted to ban; the page, of the Scorpion album, got half a million hits in the last few days.

Brainiacs.

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NocturnalHolocaust
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:33 pm
Posts: 463
Location: United States of America

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:01 pm

It makes me wonder if all of those views were from people who wanted to see what the big deal was, or if they just wanted to see a naked underage girl.

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sprintcarfan2007
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:51 am
Posts: 109
Location: United States of America

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:22 pm

What da fuck?!

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Primemattimus
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:38 am
Posts: 112
Location: United States of America

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:34 pm

I think its almost just as fucked up that the band themselves won't correct this matter and just reissue the album worldwide with a new cover (the band "censored" cover was kinda lame ya gotta say) - and just leave the old one to the ashbin of history. Its embarrassing sometimes to tell people to check out that album (imo some of the greatest music/hard rock/metal ever recorded) and have them kind of have to plug their noses because of the proverbial stink that the album cover entails.

Its also sad that Scorpions have only recently reacknowledged that era of their history with the recent reunions with Roth and such (my all time favorite guitarist btw).. Lets hope they reissue this album with a totally different cover and acknowledge that some of the 70s stuff was some of the best music they ever made! Its up their with 70s Priest for me..

On the other hand, the album cover is so old, the chick in it may have teenage kids by now even, its fucked up they released it though its not unusual for that era (Blind Faith cover anyone)- and having Jimmy page date 13 old groupies, etc.

We're definitely more civilized now in the rock and hard rock medium, and I find it strange that not more has been done about the cover, though its just a cover.

Anyone know the full story with the cover? What I have heard is that it was some record company idea, but nothing like a band to pass the buck when something like that occurs. Its a daughter of some record company exec at the time I've heard as well, and nothing happened to the girl and she lived a normal life (or so I hope..)

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hells_unicorn
Veteran

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 3062
Location: United States

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:36 pm

Quote:

I have a feeling that unless Austrailia's government has plans on taking measures against people similar to what China's has done in the past, that bill they are planning on passing will meet a similar fate. I guess we know where web surfers stand on free speech. :hail:

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immortalshadow666
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 1612
Location: Australia

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:48 pm

hells_unicorn wrote:

Quote:

There is a backlash amongst Australians not seen since the Howard Government introduced the Industrial Relations laws overhaul in 2006, but it looks like it's still going ahead anyway, despite;

- Mass public disapproval
- Several childrens welfare watchdogs blasting it for not being useful in protecting children
- It being easy to get around, it hasn't even been implemented and already tens of thousands of PC whizzes, including my best mate, have found ways around it
- Multiple ISPs blasting it for slowing internet speeds down up to 86%
- Up to 10% inaccurate anyway in blocking sites that shouldn't be blocked and not blocking sites that should be
- Opposition communications minister blasting it for all above reasons and calling the current minister "the worst communications minister we've ever had"

Fuck internet censorship in all its ways, shapes and forms. There in the UK it sounds like it's an ISP thing only rather than a government thing but like I said, fuck it all.

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Mungo
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:41 pm
Posts: 662
Location: Australia

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:53 pm

I really cannot see the internet censorship here staying permanent. If they do implement it there will be an even bigger backlash than there already is due to massive internet slowdowns for everyone using the internet, and you can bet that they'll attempt to use this filter to block dissenting websites. The communications minister's popularity will plummet as a result of this.

Of course, there'll most likely be a massive media spin on the dangers of internet pornography prior to the filter, but when it actually goes ahead and people see how much money it wastes and how fucking useless it actually is there will hopefully be a massive outcry over it. All it takes is a visit to yahoo answers and you'll find all the new proxies you could ever wish for, essentially bypassing a multi million dollar government plan.

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Naedra
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:51 am
Posts: 232
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:58 am

You mean I won't be able to edit the US president's page and put me on there instead or put pictures of Alan Partridge in leather pants and sweater doing a pole dance :aww:

sadface

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Mullan
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 44
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:29 pm

Primemattimus wrote:

Anyone know the full story with the cover? What I have heard is that it was some record company idea, but nothing like a band to pass the buck when something like that occurs. Its a daughter of some record company exec at the time I've heard as well, and nothing happened to the girl and she lived a normal life (or so I hope..)

read the wikipedia page. It has quotes from band members about the cover.

One of the band's guitarists said they met the girl fifteen years later and she was okay with it. No issue in my mind.

This quote made me laugh though; "By allowing that image to remain posted, Wikipedia is helping to further facilitate perversion and pedophilia."

So, how many of you here have become pedophiles since seeing that album cover?

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juicebitch
Juice Bitch

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am
Posts: 1523

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:54 pm

Mullan wrote:

So, how many of you here have become pedophiles since seeing that album cover?

Exactly. So farkin' pointless.

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DGYDP
Leather Lion

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:19 pm
Posts: 1047
Location: Belgium

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:23 pm

You feel a particular image is perverse and think it has a negative influence on people. What do you do? That's right, make it known to everybody what this image is and where they can find it, thus increasing the views of said picture exponentially.

Brilliant, brilliant reasoning.

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Naedra
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:51 am
Posts: 232
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:34 pm

DGYDP wrote:

the irony is astounding from such "logical" people, makes you wonder if they actual people or just androids who carry out orders that are inputted into them

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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 9320
Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:34 pm

The_Boss wrote:

Wow this is really dumb. I find it amusing though considering it's the Scorpions of all bands.

I hope this encourages sales of "Virgin Killer", because it's the best Scorpions album, by far... i mean, I like everything up to "Taken by Force", but that album in particular is victory all the way through.

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Abominatrix
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:40 pm

oneyoudontknow wrote:

People just don't learn, do they? I'm constantly amazed.

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Naedra
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:51 am
Posts: 232
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:13 pm

Mullan wrote:

So, how many of you here have become pedophiles since seeing that album cover?

*heavy breathing* NOT I :lol:

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RB2610
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:31 pm
Posts: 120
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:19 pm

I don't think that blocking stuff on the internet is really an effective way of dealing with problems. For example as in most schools our school has a 'websense' program on the system to block sites with games, youtube, adult content, gambling, gore, racism (a page on these forums was blocked once :ugh:

) etc.
And today we find that the program is down so all the filters are gone of course everyone jumped at the opportunity to show others funny youtube videos and stuff, but after a short while of watching videos (which we often do anyway, just not ones hosted on youtube) we all got back to what we were doing. So really it seems that trying to block things is a pointless exercise, if people are really desperate to do something they will find a way but when the restrictions are removed again people still do exactly what they did before, they just have access to the popular sites that were blocked before. And strangely today has been the one day I haven't seen anyone playing games on the school computers.

However this is only the 6th form, I assume the lower school may have been chaotic, but after the novelty has worn off I'm pretty sure they would have gone back to doing exactly what they did before the removal of the filters.

Therefore it is quite clear filtering things out on the internet is not the way to go, it is inneffective without getting rid of every unwanted site, which is impossible so the entire idea is utterly futile.

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Star-Gazer
Trust and you'll be trusted

Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 1265
Location: United States

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:25 pm

in the UK can you buy "American Beauty" "Kids" "Pretty Baby" "Ghost World" "The Tin Drum" "Blue Lagoon" "Lolita" "Romeo and Juliet" "The Little Girl Who Lives Down the Lane" "The Godfather" "My Life As A Dog" "Lord of The Flies" etc?

strange coming from a country which once had 16 year-old Linsey Dawn McKenzie as a Page 3 Girl (and numerous other topless 16 year olds in your daily papers, but she's my fav)

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AleXTreme
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:09 pm
Posts: 355
Location: Mexico

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:04 am

thats wierd... really, that so freaking stupid...

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josephus
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:04 am
Posts: 932
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:14 am

einvolk wrote:

strange coming from a country which once had 16 year-old Linsey Dawn McKenzie as a Page 3 Girl (and numerous other topless 16 year olds in your daily papers, but she's my fav)

I suppose the fact that Linsey has massive melons kind of put that thought out of their heads at the time.

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Wet Pussy
Waterlogged

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:13 pm
Posts: 4200
Location: Pakistan

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:31 am

So, Cannibal Corpse's and the other death metal bands with gruesome and pornogrophic covers didn't cause wikipedia being banned... Scorpions did...

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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7455
Location: Australia

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:33 am

MegaHassan wrote:

So, Cannibal Corpse's and the other death metal bands with gruesome and pornogrophic covers didn't cause wikipedia being banned... Scorpions did...

Cannibal Corpse have never put out albums with photographic sexualization of a child.

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Wet Pussy
Waterlogged

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:13 pm
Posts: 4200
Location: Pakistan

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:37 am

You have a point there...

But why ban wikipedia only? Why don't they ban ALL the websites that have the album cover?

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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
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Location: Australia

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:37 am

Just the way those zany Britons do things, I guess!

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oneyoudontknow
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Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 6:25 pm
Posts: 5343
Location: Germany

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:53 am

MegaHassan wrote:

You have a point there...

But why ban wikipedia only? Why don't they ban ALL the websites that have the album cover?

I presume this to be a rhetorical question or?

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Ribos
Radioactive Man

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:10 pm
Posts: 2981
Location: United States of America

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:02 am

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:

MegaHassan wrote:

So, Cannibal Corpse's and the other death metal bands with gruesome and pornogrophic covers didn't cause wikipedia being banned... Scorpions did...

Cannibal Corpse have never put out albums with photographic sexualization of a child.

Let it be thus known that Scorpions came up with something that tops the worst of Cannibal Corpse twelve years before the band even formed! :lol:

Seriously though, I'm boggled by this UK/Wikipedia thing. The album came out THIRTY TWO years ago, and these folks JUST CAUGHT ON? Damn.

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DGYDP
Leather Lion

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:19 pm
Posts: 1047
Location: Belgium

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:27 am

MegaHassan wrote:

But why ban wikipedia only? Why don't they ban ALL the websites that have the album cover?

See, you're assuming that there's logic in this whole thing. Trust me: there isn't.

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alexanderthegreat
Metal Barbarian Dinosaur

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2003 5:34 pm
Posts: 429
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:47 pm

einvolk wrote:

strange coming from a country which once had 16 year-old Linsey Dawn McKenzie as a Page 3 Girl (and numerous other topless 16 year olds in your daily papers, but she's my fav)

How so? 16 is the age of consent for girls in the UK. Though certainly the Sun are the Black Pot Masters when it comes to paedophile hysteria.

Linsey had a massive reduction a while back (well, HHH to DD). It made me sad.

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Star-Gazer
Trust and you'll be trusted

Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 1265
Location: United States

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:13 am

alexanderthegreat wrote:

einvolk wrote:

strange coming from a country which once had 16 year-old Linsey Dawn McKenzie as a Page 3 Girl (and numerous other topless 16 year olds in your daily papers, but she's my fav)

How so? 16 is the age of consent for girls in the UK.

but are 16 y.o nudies still allowed?
it seems as though your country has gone from one extreme to the other - nude kids in their Dailies to overall Wikipedia blocking

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