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jesusbathe
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:58 pm
Posts: 160
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:20 pm 
 

agentsteel666 wrote:
jesusbathe wrote:
Also, be sure to check out the link to his website ...i LOL'd


What made you laugh about it?


I don't know ...The guy just seems to write about a large selection of topics ranging from the holocaust to psychology to 2012.
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OlioTheSmall
Handsome (marsupial) Beast

Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:08 pm
Posts: 2585
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:38 pm 
 

Singularity wrote:
Quote:
To rephrase my point more accurately; I have found that any war crime I hear or read about that was carried out by Japan seems to show an exceptional lacking of, not just empathy, but any emotion at all. Most war atrocities seem to stem from a hatred of some kind, where as the Japanese made it seem so routine and clinical. Rather than an active contempt for those who they tortured, they seem to not even care; as if without feeling. To me there is something chilling about that idea.

I don't know how far you are accurate in making those claims. It is quite vaguely worded and could be interepreted in various ways depending on context- examples include :no emotion at all", "routine and clinical" ,"not caring, no feeling".
I am not bent on contradicting you here but would like to point out that the same phrases can be used to describe a lot of atrocities committed by Europeans as well as people of other races, including Nazi Germany ,Native American massacres by European colonists, Combodian genocide etc. As for being cold and calculated, I think many experts share the view that a lot of the Nazi treatment of Jews was in similar vein ( not being a product of hatred alone; more a shocking inability to consider their victims as human beings). DOn't get me wrong -hatred was probably the primary motive behind Nazi racial policies but there were several for whom killing was a routine and regarded their victims as little more than animals.


Yeah, I can see you and understand your points there. I will do my best to, once again, articulate my opinions. I feel that the German war atrocities were almost purely a matter of "we must eradicate and/or treat these people like this, because we are their superiors". Were as the Japanese done it just to serve their own means. They don't do it out of contempt, just because it was part of business. I think the Burma-Thai railway is a good example. The Japanese didn't work those POWs to death because of any emotionally/racially moticated reasons, merely because they needed people to build a railway.

In contrast to this, when the Germans forced labour on their prisoners, it was largely to do with the whole "your inferior, you do the work" idea. So what I am trying to address is the motivations behind the war crimes, rather than how they were carried out. I hope that makes a little more sense in regards to my "emotionally devoid" concept.
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LotF
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:39 pm
Posts: 463
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:30 am 
 

How someone could cut someone up without anesthesia is beyond me.
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MaDTransilvanian
Caravan Beyond Redemption

Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 3862
Location: Romania
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:06 am 
 

jesusbathe wrote:
MaDTransilvanian wrote:
To claim that Japan didn't kill in volume is quite exaggerated...at the very least, half of the dead of WW2 belong to Japan, not Germany. And German spies didn't kill jews for all I know.

Mengele had to flee for whatever he may have done and Israelis chased him around the world while these japs were welcomed in the US, once again proving that killing Jews is a bigger crime than killing asians/europeans/(AMERICANS*) as the Japanese did.


fixed.

Whether or not the Japanese killed Americans at these facilities, they were killing them in POW camps.

Anyways, I found that the video seemed to lack a lot of necessary information and I would expect that someone with a PhD. would be able to narrate it in a more 'scholarly' fashion. This sounded like an 11th grade history seminar or somthing. Also, be sure to check out the link to his website ...i LOL'd


I might have written americans too but in my defense I'll say that I wrote it from a racial standpoint: Asians and Europeans (Whites, be they from Europe or from the US/Canada/Australia/New Zealand/South Africa)

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AleXTreme
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:09 pm
Posts: 362
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:18 am 
 

what tha... fuck japs, they are crazy as shit... (no offense if some japanese read this, just a inoffensive comment)

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jesusbathe
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:58 pm
Posts: 160
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:34 am 
 

MaDTransilvanian wrote:
jesusbathe wrote:
MaDTransilvanian wrote:
To claim that Japan didn't kill in volume is quite exaggerated...at the very least, half of the dead of WW2 belong to Japan, not Germany. And German spies didn't kill jews for all I know.

Mengele had to flee for whatever he may have done and Israelis chased him around the world while these japs were welcomed in the US, once again proving that killing Jews is a bigger crime than killing asians/europeans/(AMERICANS*) as the Japanese did.


fixed.

Whether or not the Japanese killed Americans at these facilities, they were killing them in POW camps.

Anyways, I found that the video seemed to lack a lot of necessary information and I would expect that someone with a PhD. would be able to narrate it in a more 'scholarly' fashion. This sounded like an 11th grade history seminar or somthing. Also, be sure to check out the link to his website ...i LOL'd


I might have written americans too but in my defense I'll say that I wrote it from a racial standpoint: Asians and Europeans (Whites, be they from Europe or from the US/Canada/Australia/New Zealand/South Africa)


Alright dude. Yah I thought you may have meant that but whatever..just making sure.

I think many people are also failing to realize that many German scientists who were invloved in Nazi eugenics during the war were also let off the hook and continued to practice after the war. I think saying that Americans found the Jews more important is an exaggeration/assumption that should be avoided. Mengele was only one example.
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MaDTransilvanian
Caravan Beyond Redemption

Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 3862
Location: Romania
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:25 am 
 

In the grand scheme of things however, people remembered today as having suffered in WW2 aren't Russians, Americans, Germans, Japanese or Chinese: when people think WW2 atrocities they think jews because almost all of the focus of both rememberance and punishment of ''war crimes'' which didn't even exist when they were commited concern jews. The Nuremberg trials were much bigger in the media than those in Japan. In school this is blatant: only thing mentioned is maybe the total number of dead of WW2 AND six million jews.

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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7741
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:10 am 
 

DrSeuss wrote:
einvolk wrote:


next on the humiliation table


HAHAHA

Sorry for something I didn't commit.

Inspired by this, due to my Lakota heritage, I'm going to find the nearest white person, and make them say sorry for stealing my land.


We had a whole day devoted to saying Sorry to Aborigines over here.

I hated it. I haven't ever done anything to an Aborigine, why should I apologise?
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Bezerko
Vladimir Poopin

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:50 am
Posts: 4805
Location: Venestraya
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:44 am 
 

Because Kevin Red said so.

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Reign_of_Praine
Metalhead

Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 1:09 am
Posts: 497
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:41 pm 
 

iAm wrote:
Also, Unit 731 is a sick band name.


http://www.myspace.com/unit731

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Samapico
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 268
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:59 pm 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
DrSeuss wrote:
einvolk wrote:


next on the humiliation table


HAHAHA

Sorry for something I didn't commit.

Inspired by this, due to my Lakota heritage, I'm going to find the nearest white person, and make them say sorry for stealing my land.


We had a whole day devoted to saying Sorry to Aborigines over here.

I hated it. I haven't ever done anything to an Aborigine, why should I apologise?
I'm sure even the people who you say sorry to also find it stupid... It's over-the-top political correctness
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TheJizzHammer
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 10:47 pm
Posts: 1203
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:13 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
DrSeuss wrote:
einvolk wrote:


next on the humiliation table


HAHAHA

Sorry for something I didn't commit.

Inspired by this, due to my Lakota heritage, I'm going to find the nearest white person, and make them say sorry for stealing my land.


We had a whole day devoted to saying Sorry to Aborigines over here.

I hated it. I haven't ever done anything to an Aborigine, why should I apologise?

Did you partake?
How do they react to something like that?
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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7741
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:18 am 
 

No, I did not do anything for it. I don't feel resposible for the acts of the past, and I don't know any Aborigines anyway.
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Bezerko
Vladimir Poopin

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:50 am
Posts: 4805
Location: Venestraya
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:15 am 
 

Gee The_Beast_in_Black, you're such a racist homophobic right-wing Nazi.

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Minnaloushe
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:50 am
Posts: 7
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:06 am 
 

OlioTheSmall wrote:
Yeah, I can see you and understand your points there. I will do my best to, once again, articulate my opinions. I feel that the German war atrocities were almost purely a matter of "we must eradicate and/or treat these people like this, because we are their superiors". Were as the Japanese done it just to serve their own means. They don't do it out of contempt, just because it was part of business. I think the Burma-Thai railway is a good example. The Japanese didn't work those POWs to death because of any emotionally/racially moticated reasons, merely because they needed people to build a railway.

In contrast to this, when the Germans forced labour on their prisoners, it was largely to do with the whole "your inferior, you do the work" idea. So what I am trying to address is the motivations behind the war crimes, rather than how they were carried out. I hope that makes a little more sense in regards to my "emotionally devoid" concept.


If treating human beings as expendable tools does not qualify as contempt, then what does?

In any case, I think to characterize the bulk of the Japanese atrocities as detached and businesslike is inaccurate. Most of the abuse had little to do with railway-building or manual labor. The Japanese misbehavior towards conquered peoples consisted of things like gang raping females until their vaginas bled, forcing sons to rape their mothers or fathers their daughters at gunpoint, and cutting the fetuses from pregnant women with bayonets, among other things. Not emotionally devoid at all; lust and sadistic pleasure seem to be significant factors.

The "clinically detached" characterization might fit the scientists better, but that stems from the same basic attitude held by the raping knife-abortionists, which is simply that the victims are not really human beings and thus may be used for anything, whether labor, weapons testing, or simple amusement. And this of course is the same basic attitude held by the Nazis towards the Jews.

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OlioTheSmall
Handsome (marsupial) Beast

Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:08 pm
Posts: 2585
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:30 am 
 

Minnaloushe wrote:
OlioTheSmall wrote:
Yeah, I can see you and understand your points there. I will do my best to, once again, articulate my opinions. I feel that the German war atrocities were almost purely a matter of "we must eradicate and/or treat these people like this, because we are their superiors". Were as the Japanese done it just to serve their own means. They don't do it out of contempt, just because it was part of business. I think the Burma-Thai railway is a good example. The Japanese didn't work those POWs to death because of any emotionally/racially moticated reasons, merely because they needed people to build a railway.

In contrast to this, when the Germans forced labour on their prisoners, it was largely to do with the whole "your inferior, you do the work" idea. So what I am trying to address is the motivations behind the war crimes, rather than how they were carried out. I hope that makes a little more sense in regards to my "emotionally devoid" concept.


If treating human beings as expendable tools does not qualify as contempt, then what does?

In any case, I think to characterize the bulk of the Japanese atrocities as detached and businesslike is inaccurate. Most of the abuse had little to do with railway-building or manual labor. The Japanese misbehavior towards conquered peoples consisted of things like gang raping females until their vaginas bled, forcing sons to rape their mothers or fathers their daughters at gunpoint, and cutting the fetuses from pregnant women with bayonets, among other things. Not emotionally devoid at all; lust and sadistic pleasure seem to be significant factors.

The "clinically detached" characterization might fit the scientists better, but that stems from the same basic attitude held by the raping knife-abortionists, which is simply that the victims are not really human beings and thus may be used for anything, whether labor, weapons testing, or simple amusement. And this of course is the same basic attitude held by the Nazis towards the Jews.


Okay, I concede. I obviously don't know what I'm talking about.
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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5371
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:28 am 
 

Would have been much better without all the dramatizations, things always seem less thought out and believable when you add in pathetic little fake videos, also, it's nice to know what photos are real, and what ones are just meant to "horrify" us.
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SouthofHeaven11
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:27 pm
Posts: 103
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:16 pm 
 

We spent an entire section of my Pacific War course coving Unit 731. Pretty messed up stuff...what was even worse was that after WWII, instead of putting those involved on trial, we simply just took their research and left it at that (we didn't want the research to fall into the USSR's hands).

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agentsteel666
(Short) Buspass Holder

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:45 pm
Posts: 456
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:32 am 
 

SouthofHeaven11 wrote:
We spent an entire section of my Pacific War course coving Unit 731. Pretty messed up stuff...what was even worse was that after WWII, instead of putting those involved on trial, we simply just took their research and left it at that (we didn't want the research to fall into the USSR's hands).


Another reason we didn't put them on trial is because we wanted to work out a deal with them to get some of the gold and riches they looted from China.

Can someone answer my question I asked earlier? How was this research supposed to lead to better biological weapons? I don't understand what discoveries they'd make about better biological weapons simply by testing them on humans...that seemed to be their main purpose.

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