Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Search   * Register   * Login 



This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
Dreadnaught
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:46 am
Posts: 262
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:08 pm 
 

Japanese Samurai: Head-Viewing Ceremonies

It began as a simple enough idea--the plainest way of proving that a samurai had done his duty, was to present the severed head of an enemy to his lord.

Then, it developed into a far more elaborate affair.

The viewing of enemy heads by a samurai lord became a complex ceremony. As Stephen Turnbull noted in his book, Samurai Warriors, head-viewing ceremonies "were an important part of public relations. By head-viewing, a victorious general was given the opportunity of commenting on an ally's achievments and making a forcible point to newly subordinate clans of the folly of opposing such a glorious band of samurai."

The details of head-viewing ceremonies are somewhat bizarre. The heads themselves were drained of blood, washed, and mounted on individual spiked wooden boards. They were scented by waving burning incense under them. Makeup was actually applied to them, in the effort to make them not look so... dead. And finally, a little paper tag was attached--usually to the topnot, but shaven-headed warrior monks got theirs though a hole in the earlobe. The tag featured the dead warrior's name, the name of his slayer, and any other pertinent details.




German Landsknechts: Odd Bawdy Humor:


The famed German landsknecht mercenaries were feared for their skills with the long pike (lange spiess), the halberd (hellebart), and two-handed sword (zweihander). They wore crazy "puffed-and-slashed" costumes, where doublets and breeches had their outer layers of fabric cut, so that the different-colored lining would show through. They indulged in blatantly macho imagery, like oversized codpieces. They liked to drink. And fight.

They also had an odd sense of humor. There's a woodcut dating from c. 1512, that shows a landsknecht halberdier attempting to bite the cutting edge of his own weapon. The title of the illustration is, appropriately enough, "The Iron Biter". Along with it goes a wierd little poem:

I am the Iron Biter,
known far and wide as a
fighter.
Land and people I have
overcome,
and did most of it with my
tongue.



Swiss Reislaufer: Strange Solution for Non-Payment Situations

Those mortal enemies of the landsknechts, the Swiss reislaufer had a very strange clause in their contracts to fight for various lords. In the 16th century, the pay for armies was frequently in arrears. Soldiers understandably got pissed, when their pay was so late. The Swiss therefore gave their various employers a choice--the commander either had to pay up immediately, or the Swiss would either demand to fight the enemy right that very second, or they would march home.

This single clause put various 16th century commanders in some thoroughly compromised positions, in terms of strategy & tactics. A commander who could not pay his Swiss mercs thus had to choose between immediately fighting an enemy in unfavorable circumstances (bad ground, weather, etc), or lose his most effective infantry entirely.



Crusaders and Saracens: Fashion, & Cultural Animosity

During the Crusades, secular European knights tended to grow their hair long, and be clean-shaven. Their Muslim opponents saw this as somehow being effeminate. Warrior monks like the Templars, on the other hand, typically has close-cropped hair, and long beards--much like their Saracen opponents. The Muslims, while still despising the Templars as Infidels, nevertheless respected them a bit more than their secular counterparts, just because of this.


Central Asian Steppe Warriors: Ritually "Killing" Swords

Certain Central Asian steppe peoples, like the Kirghiz, had an interesting custom, when burying a deceased warrior--the warrior's sword would be heated up, and the blade was then bent and twisted up, to ceremonially "kill" it.


Pre-Mongol Samurai Warfare: The Art of Smack-Talking

The early samurai fought in a rather ritualized manner. Armies would face each other, but a warrior of particular rank could call out an opponent of similar rank, and they could have their own private duel, right their amid the chaos of battle. In Classical Bujutsu, author Donn F. Draeger described the smack-talking done in such encounters:

A classical warrior, after selecting his adversary, would intone a recitation, sometimes quite lengthy, mainly to intimidate his foe: "I am Sato Shigenobu, second son of Masayuki, the most skillful and feared kenshi (expert swordsman) of the Chujo Ryu. I have been in sixteen combats and have never suffered a wound. I mean to make you feel the sharp sting of my magnificent blade, the Sune-kiri (Shin-cutter), a treasured heirloom of my family. With this blade my ancestors slew great numbers of the enemy. Now--prepare to die!"

Since the field of combat was a place of honor, after delivering his recitation the warrior would permit his foe to do likewise: "You have had the misfortune to face me, Yukimitsu Tadao, the descendant of the best swordsman in all Japan. I am the fearless bushi who alone is responsible for the deaths of more than thirty of your ryu's best experts. Your clumsy style has no chance against me. This is your last combat, for I shall dispatch you with my specialty, the
gyaku kesa-age (a reverse-diagonal stroke). Advance to your doom!"






Feel free to add to this list. As I think of others, I'll post 'em.
_________________
"Iron--Cold Iron--is master of men all!" --Rudyard Kipling

Top
 Profile  
DisembowelMe
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:59 am
Posts: 528
Location: Iceland
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:10 pm 
 

This is awesomely interesting. Too bad I have nothing to add.

Top
 Profile  
AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1000
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:13 pm 
 

DisembowelMe wrote:
This is awesomely interesting. Too bad I have nothing to add.


Exactly my thoughts. Huge thanks, and excuses :/

Top
 Profile  
rexxz
Retired

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 8740
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:26 pm 
 

United States Marines: Annual Observance of the Corps

The USMC has a long tradition of celebrating the "birthday" of the corps, celebrated each year on the 10th of November. This event is usually beckons a conglomeration of jubilance and respect. An excerpt is read from the Marine Corps code, and then a slice of cake is cut by the commanding officer, then given to the oldest marine present to be passed on to the youngest.

Top
 Profile  
Unholy_Asar
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:29 am
Posts: 574
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:03 pm 
 

IIRC, the vikings used to put elderly and sick people on the battlefield sometimes (at least if they were once warriors) just so that they would die in battle and go to Valhalla, rather than die of old age.
_________________
Nazhand wrote:
True Black Metal is NOT kind of Metal, that is a complete independent music so Nazhand believes "the name of music which is called Black Metal nowadays, should be changed to Blackness music and shameful name of Metal should be cut out from our music".

Top
 Profile  
Dreadnaught
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:46 am
Posts: 262
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:14 pm 
 

rexxz wrote:
United States Marines: Annual Observance of the Corps

The USMC has a long tradition of celebrating the "birthday" of the corps, celebrated each year on the 10th of November. This event is usually beckons a conglomeration of jubilance and respect. An excerpt is read from the Marine Corps code, and then a slice of cake is cut by the commanding officer, then given to the oldest marine present to be passed on to the youngest.



The origin of the "Leatherneck" term is interesting. Apparently, U.S. Marines were issued a uniform that literally featured a thick, hardened leather collar, to protect the neck against sword cuts from the Barbary corsairs of North Africa, whom the Marines were fighting at the time, in 1816.
_________________
"Iron--Cold Iron--is master of men all!" --Rudyard Kipling

Top
 Profile  
Dreadnaught
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:46 am
Posts: 262
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:20 pm 
 

Unholy_Asar wrote:
IIRC, the vikings used to put elderly and sick people on the battlefield sometimes (at least if they were once warriors) just so that they would die in battle and go to Valhalla, rather than die of old age.



The Vikings had such poetic expressions, for the accoutrements of war. Swords were often given personal names, like "Legbiter", "Byrnie*-biter", and "Long-and-sharp". Maille armor was described variously as the "net of battle" and "foe of swords".

__________________________

*byrnie --a maille coat
_________________
"Iron--Cold Iron--is master of men all!" --Rudyard Kipling

Top
 Profile  
Dreadnaught
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:46 am
Posts: 262
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:31 pm 
 

Future Mongol Warlords: Sheer Ruthlessness


A young Mongol named Temujin, and his little brother, Qasar, actually murdered their half-brother, Bekter, over a quarrel involving only a single fish and small bird they had caught, during a hunt.

Temujin went on to become Genghis Khan.
_________________
"Iron--Cold Iron--is master of men all!" --Rudyard Kipling

Top
 Profile  
AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1000
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:34 pm 
 

This story actually involves a long period of humiliations by said-Bekter.

Top
 Profile  
Dreadnaught
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:46 am
Posts: 262
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:35 pm 
 

AurvandiL wrote:
This story actually involves a long period of humiliations by said-Bekter.


Well, don't leave us hangin', bro--tell us the tale!
_________________
"Iron--Cold Iron--is master of men all!" --Rudyard Kipling

Top
 Profile  
AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1000
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:36 pm 
 

Ahah, that's all I know about it, read that somewhere, no details.

Top
 Profile  
Dreadnaught
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:46 am
Posts: 262
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:45 pm 
 

AurvandiL wrote:
Ahah, that's all I know about it, read that somewhere, no details.



Mental note to self: research details of how Temujin and Bekter got along, prior to Bekter's murder.
_________________
"Iron--Cold Iron--is master of men all!" --Rudyard Kipling

Top
 Profile  
Lunar_Strain
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:29 pm
Posts: 513
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:59 pm 
 

The Irish had a custom of burying their dead in mounds and sealing them shut, either with rocks or large boulders out of fear that the Sídhe (Pronounced: shee) -- basically Fairies -- would raise the body as a wretched, howling corpse (What we typically call a "Banshee").
_________________
Napero wrote:
Lunar_Strain wrote:
Yes. Our Germanic brethren in the Northland never wore bear or wolf fur. =/

Yes they did, but they scavenged them from animals that had died naturally. "Viking" is actually an archaic word for "Vegan".

Top
 Profile  
Cianan
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 10:40 am
Posts: 220
Location: Foothills of the Adirondacks
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:34 pm 
 

Dreadnaught wrote:
rexxz wrote:
United States Marines: Annual Observance of the Corps

The USMC has a long tradition of celebrating the "birthday" of the corps, celebrated each year on the 10th of November. This event is usually beckons a conglomeration of jubilance and respect. An excerpt is read from the Marine Corps code, and then a slice of cake is cut by the commanding officer, then given to the oldest marine present to be passed on to the youngest.



The origin of the "Leatherneck" term is interesting. Apparently, U.S. Marines were issued a uniform that literally featured a thick, hardened leather collar, to protect the neck against sword cuts from the Barbary corsairs of North Africa, whom the Marines were fighting at the time, in 1816.


Really?

I thought I read somewhere that the term originated from The Revolutionary War to protect Marines from British Dragoons(?) or cavalry.

Edit: This uniform also featured the "leatherneck" to protect against their swords.
_________________
FasterDisaster wrote:
If you go for anything, go for the tasty pussy.

Top
 Profile  
LindisfarneAnno793
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:09 am
Posts: 447
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:51 pm 
 

Cianan wrote:
I thought I read somewhere that the term originated from The Revolutionary War to protect Marines from British Dragoons(?) or cavalry.


According to Wikipedia:

Quote:
"The United States Marine Corps actions in these wars [the Barbary wars] led to the line "to the shores of Tripoli" in the opening of the Marine Hymn. Due to the hazards of boarding hostile ships, Marines' uniforms had a leather high collar to protect against cutlass slashes. This led to the nickname Leatherneck for U.S. Marines."


The source cited for this tract in Wikipedia is:

Chenoweth, USMCR (Ret.), Col. H. Avery; Col. Brooke Nihart, USMC (ret) (2005). Semper fi: The Definitive Illustrated History of the U.S. Marines. New York: Main Street. ISBN 1-4027-3099-3.

Seems legitimate.
_________________
Our clinic raided by the authorities
Littered with corpses on all thirteen stories
We toiled long in the laboratories
Fueled by methamphetamines and forties

Top
 Profile  
Cianan
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 10:40 am
Posts: 220
Location: Foothills of the Adirondacks
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:57 pm 
 

LindisfarneAnno793 wrote:
Cianan wrote:
I thought I read somewhere that the term originated from The Revolutionary War to protect Marines from British Dragoons(?) or cavalry.


According to Wikipedia:

Quote:
"The United States Marine Corps actions in these wars [the Barbary wars] led to the line "to the shores of Tripoli" in the opening of the Marine Hymn. Due to the hazards of boarding hostile ships, Marines' uniforms had a leather high collar to protect against cutlass slashes. This led to the nickname Leatherneck for U.S. Marines."


The source cited for this tract in Wikipedia is:

Chenoweth, USMCR (Ret.), Col. H. Avery; Col. Brooke Nihart, USMC (ret) (2005). Semper fi: The Definitive Illustrated History of the U.S. Marines. New York: Main Street. ISBN 1-4027-3099-3.

Seems legitimate.


Gotcha. I knew about the Tripoli conflict, hell I'm shipping out this summer, but never knew that leatherneck came from there.

Interesting, great finds guys.
_________________
FasterDisaster wrote:
If you go for anything, go for the tasty pussy.

Top
 Profile  
Vio_Lance
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:14 am
Posts: 20
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:57 am 
 

I heard somewhere that to bond Spartan soldiers would have sex with each other, anyone know if this is true at all?

Top
 Profile  
The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7741
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:26 am 
 

Vio_Lance wrote:
I heard somewhere that to bond Spartan soldiers would have sex with each other, anyone know if this is true at all?


Very true. Most of the ancient Greek cultures were big on bumfun. Specifically, pederastic relationships between a teacher and his young male apprentice.

In Sparta, a boy of age would be given to a veteran soldier to learn the ways of war and to be buggered repeatedly. Eventually the recruit would be put into a barracks, where he would engage in further buggery. When time came to be married, his new bride would be shaved bald and dressed in men's clothes, so he would be able to ease into heterosexuality.
_________________
gomorro wrote:
Fortunately the seminar started and when it finished, I runed away like if Usain Bolt were about to rape me.

Top
 Profile  
Elksedge
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 2:02 am
Posts: 7
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:45 am 
 

In "Swords of the Viking Age" by Ian Peirce (2002, p. 87) is a discussion and photo of a "ritually killed" sword found in a grave from the late 9th or 10th century in Norway along with other iron objects and weapons. The blade had been bent into a graceful "S" shape. This practice seems to have been common throughout ancient Europe with one intent being so that the "spirit" of the weapon (or a broken personal item) could accompany the warrior into the afterlife, the same reason why a slave or family member might be killed.

The "smack-talking" (or "flyting") you mentioned was also a custom in various other societies and especially in Germanic poetry (Eddas, Beowulf, etc.) where it took the form of insults and boasting of one's martial or sexual prowess. In the mythology, at least, truthfulness apparently wasn't a requirement as long as you could successfully intimidate or embarrass your opponent. For example, in the account of the giant Thjazi's death in "Skaldskaparmal" the gods all have a part in his slaying before Odin throws his eyes into the night sky as stars, but in the poem "Harbard's Song" Thor takes the credit for both deeds while engaged in a flyting with Harbard who is Odin in disguise. In "Lokasenna" it's Loki who makes this claim while in a heated exchange with Thjazi's daughter Skadi.
_________________
In Ferro Veritas.

Top
 Profile  
The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7741
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:46 am 
 

I really love Viking history/mythology. It's so much fun, and so goddamn badass.
_________________
gomorro wrote:
Fortunately the seminar started and when it finished, I runed away like if Usain Bolt were about to rape me.

Top
 Profile  
Elksedge
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 2:02 am
Posts: 7
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:18 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
I really love Viking history/mythology. It's so much fun, and so goddamn badass.


It can also be extremely frustrating when one approaches the subject from a scholarly standpoint and soon finds himself confronted with all its contradictions and vagueness, but this is a natural consequence of a mythology that was compiled by many anonymous poets, both Christian and pagan, over the course of millennia and each of them injecting their own interpretations and biases into the stew. Personally, I think it's one of the things that makes it so interesting.
_________________
In Ferro Veritas.

Top
 Profile  
The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7741
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:38 am 
 

There's also something strangely human about the Viking gods. They have personality.
_________________
gomorro wrote:
Fortunately the seminar started and when it finished, I runed away like if Usain Bolt were about to rape me.

Top
 Profile  
Dreadnaught
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:46 am
Posts: 262
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:43 am 
 

This thread had completely disappeared for a while, and I feared that it had been lost via some technological glitch--I'm extremely happy to see that it was not actually lost! :)
_________________
"Iron--Cold Iron--is master of men all!" --Rudyard Kipling

Top
 Profile  
LindisfarneAnno793
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:09 am
Posts: 447
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:00 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
There's also something strangely human about the Viking gods. They have personality.

The Christian god has a personality too! Okay, more like a personality disorder. I mean, think about it - the guy's a cruel, obsessively jealous, sadistic mass-murdering fuck! :lol:
_________________
Our clinic raided by the authorities
Littered with corpses on all thirteen stories
We toiled long in the laboratories
Fueled by methamphetamines and forties

Top
 Profile  
Dreadnaught
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:46 am
Posts: 262
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:09 am 
 

LindisfarneAnno793 wrote:
The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
There's also something strangely human about the Viking gods. They have personality.

The Christian god has a personality too! Okay, more like a personality disorder. I mean, think about it - the guy's a cruel, obsessively jealous, sadistic mass-murdering fuck! :lol:



Easy there, Tiger--there do happen to be Christians on this forum (like myself). Save the Christian-bashing bullshit for some other thread.
_________________
"Iron--Cold Iron--is master of men all!" --Rudyard Kipling

Top
 Profile  
LindisfarneAnno793
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:09 am
Posts: 447
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:29 am 
 

Dreadnaught wrote:
Easy there, Tiger--there do happen to be Christians on this forum (like myself). Save the Christian-bashing bullshit for some other thread.


Check your PMs.
_________________
Our clinic raided by the authorities
Littered with corpses on all thirteen stories
We toiled long in the laboratories
Fueled by methamphetamines and forties

Top
 Profile  
Elksedge
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 2:02 am
Posts: 7
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:30 am 
 

And of course no discussion of "bizarre warrior manifestations" would be complete without mentioning the berserks.
_________________
In Ferro Veritas.

Top
 Profile  
Dreadnaught
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:46 am
Posts: 262
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:47 am 
 

LindisfarneAnno793 wrote:
Dreadnaught wrote:
Easy there, Tiger--there do happen to be Christians on this forum (like myself). Save the Christian-bashing bullshit for some other thread.


Check your PMs.



Thanks for the message, and thanks also for cross-referencing the Leatherneck story.
_________________
"Iron--Cold Iron--is master of men all!" --Rudyard Kipling

Top
 Profile  
Dreadnaught
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:46 am
Posts: 262
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:33 pm 
 

"Running Juramentado"


Juramentado was a derivitave of the better known Muslim jihad; the Mulsim warriors of Sulu (in the Southern Philippines) would take an oath (the juramentado), and then go off to find infidels and offer them the choice of coversion to Islam, or death.

This practice became somewhat corrupted in Mindanao, where the Muslim warriors there would simply kill anyone in their path--the more people killed, the better that warrior's place in heaven would be.

When asked about the practice of "running juramentado", eskrima grandmaster Angel Cabales once commented, "If you see a Muslim wearing white and a turban, and he has a sword resting on his right shoulder, don't walk to his left side or he will turn and cut off your head".
_________________
"Iron--Cold Iron--is master of men all!" --Rudyard Kipling

Top
 Profile  
GrimSleaper
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:56 am
Posts: 109
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:39 am 
 

The US Navy and maybe other nations have a tradition called "Crossing The Line" which is a ceremony held upon crossing the equater for the first time. Those who had not crossed before were called "Wogs" and would therefore be ridiculed and embarrased by the "Shell-Backs" Individuals who had crossed the equater before, than you also have Golden Shell-Backs who are those that crossed the equater and international date line at the same time. Sometime before 2003 many food products i.e. spicy and greasy foods were used along with ice and high pressure water were used on the wogs. Putting spicy sauce on there back and letting it dribble to there asshole to create agonizing pain for instance. Before than probably before 1995 or so (I wasnt in the navy untill 2002) Small beating tools were used crafted of split leather firehoses and as the Wogs paraded down the ships deck the shell backs would whip there backs with them. Sadly the tradition is dying due to the new generation of man hating tree hugger faggots who can't take a beating and doesnt know what traditions are for. When i went through food products were not allowed to be used on wogs. Only ice and seawater (low pressure). I felt utterly cheated and i knew that i did not deserve to be a Shell-Back. And the last time i actually attended the ceremony many bible pushing phillipinos attended, we were yelled at for cursing and berating a Wog, we could not spray them directly with firehoses and Ice was not allowed. The Wogs even counterattacked the Shell-Backs and we were not allowed to retaliate with harsher punishments. Yes ladies and Gentlemen, the US Navy is now one of the most pussy military orginizations in the world. I am embarrased to say that i am currently a member (if not just for the paycheck and the "i protect my country" bullshit)

EDIT: The original ceremony i'm told was during the days of wooden ships a wog would be tied to a rope and dropped into the water for a short time, coming into contact with the barnicles in the proccess. Similar to keel-hauling except they were not dragged through the complete length of the ship and not nearly as long a duration.
_________________
I have filled books with fantasies of torturing you; a library of pain.

Top
 Profile  
CrippledLucifer
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 5:08 am
Posts: 397
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:14 pm 
 

GrimSleaper wrote:
Post.


You really give the impression that you want to get tied to a rope and thrown overboard.

Top
 Profile  
orionmetalhead
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:54 am
Posts: 2453
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:44 pm 
 

GrimSleaper wrote:
The US Navy and maybe other nations have a tradition called "Crossing The Line" which is a ceremony held upon crossing the equater for the first time. Those who had not crossed before were called "Wogs" and would therefore be ridiculed and embarrased by the "Shell-Backs" Individuals who had crossed the equater before, than you also have Golden Shell-Backs who are those that crossed the equater and international date line at the same time. Sometime before 2003 many food products i.e. spicy and greasy foods were used along with ice and high pressure water were used on the wogs. Putting spicy sauce on there back and letting it dribble to there asshole to create agonizing pain for instance. Before than probably before 1995 or so (I wasnt in the navy untill 2002) Small beating tools were used crafted of split leather firehoses and as the Wogs paraded down the ships deck the shell backs would whip there backs with them. Sadly the tradition is dying due to the new generation of man hating tree hugger faggots who can't take a beating and doesnt know what traditions are for. When i went through food products were not allowed to be used on wogs. Only ice and seawater (low pressure). I felt utterly cheated and i knew that i did not deserve to be a Shell-Back. And the last time i actually attended the ceremony many bible pushing phillipinos attended, we were yelled at for cursing and berating a Wog, we could not spray them directly with firehoses and Ice was not allowed. The Wogs even counterattacked the Shell-Backs and we were not allowed to retaliate with harsher punishments. Yes ladies and Gentlemen, the US Navy is now one of the most pussy military orginizations in the world. I am embarrased to say that i am currently a member (if not just for the paycheck and the "i protect my country" bullshit)

EDIT: The original ceremony i'm told was during the days of wooden ships a wog would be tied to a rope and dropped into the water for a short time, coming into contact with the barnicles in the proccess. Similar to keel-hauling except they were not dragged through the complete length of the ship and not nearly as long a duration.


Thats pretty interesting though I think you should be subjected less to insane amounts of pain and instead take a general grammar course.
_________________
CONTAMINATED TONES - BLOG/LABEL/DISTRO
Facebook

Top
 Profile  
GrimSleaper
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:56 am
Posts: 109
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:57 pm 
 

I was never subjected to situations where grammer would be an issue seeing as i'm a mechanic. Thanks for pointing out my shortcomming's though and by the way who the fuck are you? because surely i shouldnt judge you since i've never met you in my entire life right?
_________________
I have filled books with fantasies of torturing you; a library of pain.

Top
 Profile  
thomash
Metal Philosopher

Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:31 pm
Posts: 1855
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:33 pm 
 

Dreadnaught wrote:
Pre-Mongol Samurai Warfare: The Art of Smack-Talking

The early samurai fought in a rather ritualized manner. Armies would face each other, but a warrior of particular rank could call out an opponent of similar rank, and they could have their own private duel, right their amid the chaos of battle. In Classical Bujutsu, author Donn F. Draeger described the smack-talking done in such encounters:

A classical warrior, after selecting his adversary, would intone a recitation, sometimes quite lengthy, mainly to intimidate his foe: "I am Sato Shigenobu, second son of Masayuki, the most skillful and feared kenshi (expert swordsman) of the Chujo Ryu. I have been in sixteen combats and have never suffered a wound. I mean to make you feel the sharp sting of my magnificent blade, the Sune-kiri (Shin-cutter), a treasured heirloom of my family. With this blade my ancestors slew great numbers of the enemy. Now--prepare to die!"

Since the field of combat was a place of honor, after delivering his recitation the warrior would permit his foe to do likewise: "You have had the misfortune to face me, Yukimitsu Tadao, the descendant of the best swordsman in all Japan. I am the fearless bushi who alone is responsible for the deaths of more than thirty of your ryu's best experts. Your clumsy style has no chance against me. This is your last combat, for I shall dispatch you with my specialty, the
gyaku kesa-age (a reverse-diagonal stroke). Advance to your doom!"


Most historians I've talked to believe that this practice really didn't happen on the battlefield. The only records of early medieval Japanese warfare were poems, which include speeches like the ones you quoted. However, that doesn't mean that anybody actually did that in battle. Most likely, speeches were included to embellish the story, as in ancient Greek epic poetry.

Speaking of ancient Greece, I'm pretty sure that Sparta really didn't practice much homosexuality or pederasty. I've never seen any source that spoke of such practices in Sparta, anyway, but I have seen sources that talked about other polises that practiced pederasty, such as Athens and Thebes. The city-states that tended to practice pederasty also tended to contrast themselves with Sparta, so I think it's highly unlikely that Sparta had similar pederastic customs, particularly in view of what I've read on Sparta's social structure.

The most famous instance of Greek soldiers practicing homosexuality is the Theban "Sacred Band," an elite corps of soldiers encouraged to find lovers within their own ranks. The idea was that men would fight more bravely if they were fighting beside their lover.

Also, all this bullshit about wogs sounds fucking retarded. I can't imagine why anyone would want to be hazed or why anyone would believe that resisting being hazed meant that they were a 'pussy' or that they didn't 'deserve' to be a member of the Navy. Being sprayed with a fire-hose doesn't make you any better at your job. Practices like that can only serve the purpose of degrading and brainwashing individuals, depriving them of their sense of individuality and autonomy. Fuck that shit.

Top
 Profile  
Dreadnaught
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:46 am
Posts: 262
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:26 pm 
 

thomash wrote:
Dreadnaught wrote:
Pre-Mongol Samurai Warfare: The Art of Smack-Talking

The early samurai fought in a rather ritualized manner. Armies would face each other, but a warrior of particular rank could call out an opponent of similar rank, and they could have their own private duel, right their amid the chaos of battle. In Classical Bujutsu, author Donn F. Draeger described the smack-talking done in such encounters:

A classical warrior, after selecting his adversary, would intone a recitation, sometimes quite lengthy, mainly to intimidate his foe: "I am Sato Shigenobu, second son of Masayuki, the most skillful and feared kenshi (expert swordsman) of the Chujo Ryu. I have been in sixteen combats and have never suffered a wound. I mean to make you feel the sharp sting of my magnificent blade, the Sune-kiri (Shin-cutter), a treasured heirloom of my family. With this blade my ancestors slew great numbers of the enemy. Now--prepare to die!"

Since the field of combat was a place of honor, after delivering his recitation the warrior would permit his foe to do likewise: "You have had the misfortune to face me, Yukimitsu Tadao, the descendant of the best swordsman in all Japan. I am the fearless bushi who alone is responsible for the deaths of more than thirty of your ryu's best experts. Your clumsy style has no chance against me. This is your last combat, for I shall dispatch you with my specialty, the
gyaku kesa-age (a reverse-diagonal stroke). Advance to your doom!"


Most historians I've talked to believe that this practice really didn't happen on the battlefield. The only records of early medieval Japanese warfare were poems, which include speeches like the ones you quoted. However, that doesn't mean that anybody actually did that in battle. Most likely, speeches were included to embellish the story, as in ancient Greek epic poetry.



Who are the historians in question, that you have spoken with?

The late Donn F. Draeger established the recognized academic discipline of hoplology (the "study of human combative behavior and performance"), and I don't personally see any reason to doubt him.

I'm not saying you're wrong on this issue, but it seems fairly open-ended to me. What's the evidence that the bushi didn't engage in pre-fight smack-talking?
_________________
"Iron--Cold Iron--is master of men all!" --Rudyard Kipling

Top
 Profile  
Norrmania
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:42 am
Posts: 364
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:42 pm 
 

Funny to see this topic, I'm currently writing my BA thesis on pre-Christian Germanic war-cults and their customs. Will be sure to add to the thread when I have more time.

Top
 Profile  
Fungicide
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 5:10 pm
Posts: 1263
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:24 pm 
 

The Scythian Head Collectors

Militaristic customs varied from tribe to tribe amongst the Scythians. However, two customs in particular stand out as particularly worthy of inclusion in this thread. Both are described by Herodotus in his Histories.

The Scythians generally seem to have has interesting ideas about what constituted a gender. Men who after a lifetime in the saddle had had their testicles rendered non-functional often sprouted breasts and lsot their facial hair due to lack of testosterone in much the same way that testicular cancer patients might today. Consequently they took to wearing women's clothes and performing female social functions. Anyway, amongst certain Scythian groups, young women seem to have been regarded as, in many ways, essentially masculine. They were required to go to way and prove themselves in the same way as the young men by taking a head from a foe they had slain in battle. Untill they had done this, they were not regarded as mature women, and could not marry.

Another interesting Scythian custom was an anual feast that some groups indulged in where all the wariors of the tribe were invited. In order to qualify as a warrior of the tribe, you had to have taken the head of an enemy that year. In order to prove you had done so, you had to have the skull of your victim turned into a drinking vessel for use at the feast.
_________________
You often say 'I would give, but only to the deserving'. The trees in your orchard say not so, nor the flocks in your field... And he who has deserved to drink from the ocean of life deserves to fill his cup from your little stream.
Kahlil Gibran

Top
 Profile  
Guido_HM_Warlord
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:31 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:53 pm 
 

This is VERY interesting guys!!!

About the Scythian custom of drinkin' in the head of defeated enemies, that was quite common among the barbarians; Longobard leader Alboinus made her wife Rosemunde drink in the skull of her father Cunimund... it was around 500 a.D. if I remember correctly.

About strange military practices... any one has heard about Roman devotio?

It was an ancient ritual of roman military leaders (i would not say centurions 'cause they still not existed, I'm talking of events that took place before the war against Carthage).

It was performed in circustamces of extreme need, and it consisted in the self-sacrifice to ensure victory to the army. Only military leaders (tribuni, legati and so on) could perform that. There was a complex and very fascinating formula which the warlord should pronounce, assisted by the Pontifex Maximus, and which was intended to call the Gods of Light and Dark, the spirits of the dead, Mars with his crew of war-demons and to curse forever the weapons and the standards of the enemies. Then the man who spoke the devotio would run fearlessly amongst the enemy lines, leaving dead bodies around him and (hopefully) ensuring victory.

It is not sure how much time did it work, but it's sure they did it ;)

Top
 Profile  
thomash
Metal Philosopher

Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:31 pm
Posts: 1855
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:46 pm 
 

Dreadnaught wrote:
Who are the historians in question, that you have spoken with?

Susan Burns and a Ph.D. candidate here at the U of C who taught my Intro to Japanese History course. Rachel Fulton also expressed the same opinion, but she specializes in medieval European history. In fact, this topic was covered in a "Knights and Samurai" course I took taught jointly by Burns and Fulton.

Dreadnaught wrote:
The late Donn F. Draeger established the recognized academic discipline of hoplology (the "study of human combative behavior and performance"), and I don't personally see any reason to doubt him.

I'm not saying you're wrong on this issue, but it seems fairly open-ended to me. What's the evidence that the bushi didn't engage in pre-fight smack-talking?

The evidence is just that the only evidence of them doing so is in poetic accounts, which is as though, in 500 years, the only accounts of how contemporary soldiers fought was in "Live Free or Die Hard." That doesn't mean that it didn't happen, it just means that we don't have the sources to really be able to assert that it did. I think that, on that basis, it's better to assume that it didn't happen because it seems so impractical.

Frankly, Draeger wasn't an historian. He may have made valuable contributions to hoplology, but it doesn't seem that qualifies him as an historian. The only insight we have into premodern Japan is in textual analysis, and I haven't read any historians who would assert that the sources justify believing that the practice actually occurred.

Top
 Profile  
DanFuckingLucas
Witchsmeller Pursuivant

Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:30 am
Posts: 7555
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:38 pm 
 

That haka is a type of Maori dance, the most commonly known is the one performed by the New Zealand Rugby Team, which is a typical war haka, performed before battle to invoke the god of war and intimidate the opponent.
_________________
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
_________________
Robots drank my beer.

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Napero and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group