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DrSeuss
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:23 pm
Posts: 261
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:50 pm 
 

I've always had a great liking for early 1980s hardcore punk, but I recently watched American Hardcore, and it sparked an even greater interest in the scene/genre.

After watching the documentary, I felt a little more kinship with the earlier punk scene, similar ideologies and mindsets that most metal and metal fans these days exhibit. With some obvious differences of course. Miles different than what is being passed off as "hardcore" now. One problem with the documentary though, they barely mentioned Dead Kennedys.

Most metal fans will agree, that extreme metal these days would be nowhere without the likes of the American hardcore punk scenes as well as overseas affairs such as Discharge.

Some of my favorites at the moment:

Poison Idea
Black Flag
SSD
Cro-Mags (not really first wave, but Age of Quarrel rules)
Minor Threat
Circle Jerks
MDC

Just seeing if anyone else here has the same affinity for this stuff as I do. I know there's a punk thread already, but this one pertains to one aspect of it alone, including the documentary.

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SludgeMetalHead983
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:28 pm
Posts: 122
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:06 pm 
 

yeah at times i like hardcore, stuff like minor threat, black flag n i like crossover too theres a big hardcore scene around here so thats how i got into it...i still need to see american hardcore sounds like a good movie.
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DrSeuss
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:23 pm
Posts: 261
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:09 pm 
 

SludgeMetalHead983 wrote:
yeah at times i like hardcore, stuff like minor threat, black flag n i like crossover too theres a big hardcore scene around here so thats how i got into it...i still need to see american hardcore sounds like a good movie.


Certainly with a name like SludgeMetalHead, you have to appreciate hardcore punk ;)

It was decent, certainly better than the "metal" documentaries that have been put out in a similar vein.

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Nahsil
Clerical Sturmgeschütz

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:06 pm
Posts: 3867
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:13 pm 
 

I like Void, but a lot of these bands suck.
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chrislyles15
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:08 pm
Posts: 744
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:19 pm 
 

I love hardcore. Mostly because it's the root of thrash.
Here are some of my favorites:

Dead Kennedys
Black Flag
The Misfits
Bad Brains
Minor Threat
Husker Du
Minutemen
The Circle Jerks
X
GBH
Discharge
7 Seconds
Suicidal Tendencies (early era)
Agnostic Front
D.R.I. (early era)

A short list, but a good one.

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squeebsquab
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:35 pm
Posts: 53
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:26 pm 
 

none of those bands suck save cro mags and SSD. this is totally my area of expertise, and really punk is my true passion.

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iAm
Wastelander

Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:18 am
Posts: 5630
Location: West of the Duwamish due South of the Sound
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:28 pm 
 

Hardcore thread without Reagan Youth? For shame.
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Dreadnaught
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:46 am
Posts: 262
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:09 pm 
 

squeebsquab wrote:
none of those bands suck save cro mags and SSD. this is totally my area of expertise, and really punk is my true passion.



Punk is supposedly your "true passion", and yet you claim that the Cro-Mags "suck". Wow.


Age of Quarrel is arguably the greatest NYHC album of all time.
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HumanWaste5150
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:32 am
Posts: 1986
Location: GTA, Canada
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:59 pm 
 

I think Sick Of It All came around a bit later but check them out if you're a fan of the NY sound if you already have not.

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Darkscapes
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:33 am
Posts: 10
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:18 am 
 

I was lucky enough to be around for the second wave. In 1984 I was given a tape with Bad Brians, Circle Jerks and Black Flag and others. But who's to say when waves start. I believe the Stooges made it all happen in 1969. I saw the Cro-Mags in 1986 - they rock! What a great show! Anyone into the Cro-Mags should check out John Josephs new project Bloodclot - nothing but energy!

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invoked
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 1710
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:37 am 
 

One of my favorite hardcore/crossover bands is Fearless Iranians From Hell (http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=97748). They had a truly unique sound and lyrical subject. Older stuff was more in the vein of fellow Texans D.R.I., but they developed into something truly different and special by their last album in 1990. What better way to attack our society than from the perspective of the people who hate it most?
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Bezerko
Vladimir Poopin

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:50 am
Posts: 4806
Location: Venestraya
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:13 am 
 

I really don't get the love for Minor Threat, there's so way better hardcore out there.

Anyway, big fan of the genre and I constantly need to hear more. For those who like their hardcore on the faster side, check out Extortion from Australia. Amazing band, their Control EP is really more towards powerviolence.

Speaking of powerviolence, wooooooooooo powerviolence! Siege are brilliant, as are No Comment but holy hell, INFEST. Absolutely amazing band, they didn't do a single bad thing.

http://www.freepowerboards.com/powerviolent/

Join my forum, you know you want to!

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Mungo
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:41 pm
Posts: 1196
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:58 am 
 

Yeah, hardcore punk is great. I prefer it more stuff more similar to crust however. Some of the hardcore related bands I have been listening to in the past couple of months are listed below;

Conflict
Born Against
Discharge
Black Flag
Nausea
Disclose
Wolfbrigade
Amebix
Aus-Rotten
Rudimentary Peni
Agnostic Front
Caustic Christ
Doom
Minor Threat
The Circle Jerks
Bad Religion
Bad Brains
DRI
Sick of it all

It's kickass stuff. I myself prefer it to thrash.

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TheGrimWombat
Nelson Wannabe

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1421
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:28 am 
 

DrSeuss wrote:
Poison Idea


This band fucking rocks. FUCKING ROCKS!

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Dragunov
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 6:34 pm
Posts: 2358
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:14 pm 
 

Bezerko wrote:
Speaking of powerviolence, wooooooooooo powerviolence! Siege are brilliant, as are No Comment but holy hell, INFEST. Absolutely amazing band, they didn't do a single bad thing.


I'd hesitate to call Siege a powerviolence band, but No Comment and Infest are pretty good examples of the genre. A local band around here actually covers a few Infest songs during their set. Oh, if you haven't already, check out Spazz, Charles Bronson, and Crossed Out for some more good powerviolence.
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squeebsquab
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:35 pm
Posts: 53
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:58 pm 
 

Dreadnaught wrote:
squeebsquab wrote:
none of those bands suck save cro mags and SSD. this is totally my area of expertise, and really punk is my true passion.



Punk is supposedly your "true passion", and yet you claim that the Cro-Mags "suck". Wow.


Age of Quarrel is arguably the greatest NYHC album of all time.


i just really was never into the NYHC sound at all, too tough and macho for me. This is the stuff that turned into "thugcore" where you get hardcore guys in fucking basketball jerseys doing kung fu in the pit. blame them for the modern state of metal core. But on the same hand i can get down with some Warzone, Cause for Alarm and the like.

Not that i dont like "tough" sounding bands. Really poison idea are probably my favorite hardcore band of all time. They could actually play their instruments and threw in some killer solos and leads, truly the best band to come out of hardcore. R.I.P. Pig Champion.

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206
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:00 pm
Posts: 966
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:44 pm 
 

Corrosion of Conformity's Eye For An Eye is still awesome hardcore. That was from '83 so it may be a little late for this discussion.

All tolled, Subhumans was and remains my favorite punk band, followed by Minor Threat, Exploited and early Black Flag. I love Minor Threat but never saw them as Hardcore.

Punk led me to grind, so I have nothing but respect.

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ZombiHolocaust
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:44 pm
Posts: 98
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:32 pm 
 

Discharge,
GBH,
Black Flag,
Bad Brains,
Minor Threat,
SS Decontrol,
Void,
Negative Approach,
Agnostic Front,
Poison Idea,
D.Y.S.,
D.R.I.,
Gang Green,
Antidote,
Cro-Mags,
Adrenalin O.D.,
Die Kreuzen,
C.O.C.,
Blitz,
The Stupids,
Urban Waste

etc all rule and were all making great intense shit during the NWOBHM era (and even as Thrash started ruling the underground) but if you like the whole American Hardcore (and the UK82) era, I do recommend the European and Japanese bands as well. These bands were relied on during 85-88 when most of the Godfathers of HC got tired of playing it, others went metal, others kept being generic. Finland (Kaaos, Terveet Kadet, Rattus), Sweden (Anti Cimex, Bombanfall <almost early Swedish Death Metal>, Shitlickers), Italy (Negazione, Raw Power, Wretched) and Japan (G.I.S.M., S.O.B., Outo, Gudon, The Clay, Zuou) are all notable for keeping Hardcore exciting and fresh when it was starting to become stale. All bands are great and all will Thrash your brains out. It's just such a shame that the modern "hardcore" bands want to sound like a cheesier version of Pantera.

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Jonpo
Hypercolombowler

Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:05 am
Posts: 4591
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:37 pm 
 

206 wrote:
All tolled, Subhumans was and remains my favorite punk band, followed by Minor Threat, Exploited and early Black Flag. I love Minor Threat but never saw them as Hardcore.


Subhumans from UK or Canada? It looks like the UK boys would play something more my speed...

I'm listening to Poison Idea now. Pig Champion definitely puts down some great leads, but the rest of it sounds totally forgettable to me. I'm listening to "Kings of Punk" now and will check out "War all the Time" next.
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PvtNinjer
Veteran

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:45 am
Posts: 2685
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:50 pm 
 

Love oldschool hardcore here. Actually just got back into it recently, downloading lots of black flag, MDC (violentredneckyouseeredviolentredneck!), Minor Threat, etc...

Good shit!

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206
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:00 pm
Posts: 966
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:51 pm 
 

Jonpo wrote:
Subhumans from UK or Canada? It looks like the UK boys would play something more my speed...


UK. If you are checking them out for the first time, get "EP-LP."

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squeebsquab
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:35 pm
Posts: 53
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:54 pm 
 

Check out poison ideas "feel the darkness" although the early stuff is awesome, war all the time and feel the darkness are my favorites.


i agree that america had some very awesome hardcore coming out in the 80's, but scandinavia and japan were by far superior. Japanese hardcore has this fire and power that almost no other bands had at the time. Listen to Deathside or Nightmare to hear what i mean.

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NocturnalHolocaust
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:33 pm
Posts: 510
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:59 pm 
 

I'm a huge fan of hardcore punk. I've been listening to it since I was a kid. Black Fag, Dead Kennedys, Minor Threat, and D.R.I. are/were great bands. Sometimes, I wish I lived back during that period. :lol:

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Manic616
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:01 pm
Posts: 692
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:03 pm 
 

NocturnalHolocaust wrote:
I'm a huge fan of hardcore punk. I've been listening to it since I was a kid. Black Fag, Dead Kennedys, Minor Threat, and D.R.I. are/were great bands. Sometimes, I wish I lived back during that period. :lol:


Yeah same for me too, i always feel saddened to know that i missed out on that era. And dead kennedys are probally one of my favorite bands of all time.

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206
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:00 pm
Posts: 966
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:03 pm 
 

NocturnalHolocaust wrote:
Sometimes, I wish I lived back during that period.


Missed=Nothing

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NocturnalHolocaust
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:33 pm
Posts: 510
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:05 pm 
 

Yeah, you're probably right.

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DrSeuss
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:23 pm
Posts: 261
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:47 pm 
 

Mungo wrote:
Wolfbrigade


I can't wait for their new album. I think this band along with a few other crust/d-beat bands (Skitsystem, Nuclear Death Terror etc) should be on the archives, simply because of their obvious metal influences and pure badassery.

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MortalScum
Metalhead

Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:13 pm
Posts: 1590
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:20 pm 
 

Anyone here like Battalion of Saints? or how about The Varukers?

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Bezerko
Vladimir Poopin

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:50 am
Posts: 4806
Location: Venestraya
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:56 pm 
 

Dragunov wrote:
Bezerko wrote:
Speaking of powerviolence, wooooooooooo powerviolence! Siege are brilliant, as are No Comment but holy hell, INFEST. Absolutely amazing band, they didn't do a single bad thing.


I'd hesitate to call Siege a powerviolence band, but No Comment and Infest are pretty good examples of the genre. A local band around here actually covers a few Infest songs during their set. Oh, if you haven't already, check out Spazz, Charles Bronson, and Crossed Out for some more good powerviolence.


Yeah I agree on the Siege comment, though they're just over the line for me, mainly because of songs like Cold War, Armageddon, Starvation and Life of Hate. Definitely very influential to the genre if anything, but I basically regard them as the Extreme Noise Terror or Napalm Death of powerviolence. :P

As for the other bands, I was going to download the Charles Bronson and Crossed Out discographies but my internet got capped. I'll have to let them download over a day or something. Spazz I know and like. Actually, I have a Crossed Out split with Drop Dead on here which is pretty good.

Despise You are also great, and they cover Possessed's Burning in Hell! I must point out that, unlike Cavelera Conspiracy's cover of The Excorcist, Despise You actually do justice to a Possessed song!

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Dreadnaught
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:46 am
Posts: 262
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:28 pm 
 

squeebsquab wrote:
Dreadnaught wrote:
squeebsquab wrote:
none of those bands suck save cro mags and SSD. this is totally my area of expertise, and really punk is my true passion.



Punk is supposedly your "true passion", and yet you claim that the Cro-Mags "suck". Wow.


Age of Quarrel is arguably the greatest NYHC album of all time.


i just really was never into the NYHC sound at all, too tough and macho for me.



I think it was simply a product of the environment it was created in.


The Cro-Mags were totally primal. Visceral. It was manifest in everything they did, right down to their very name. Age of Quarrel had a genuinely unique sound, with those thick guitars, nice leads courtesy of Parris, sick vocal delivery by John Joseph, and Mackie's deliberately "off" drumming (to me, he always sounded as if he was playing in a slightly different tempo from the rest of the band).


I always really dug the NYHC sound, because of that extra hard edge. The metallic element that creeped in (courtesy of bands like Sheer Terror) also made the NYHC sound rather distinctive.


Quote:
This is the stuff that turned into "thugcore" where you get hardcore guys in fucking basketball jerseys doing kung fu in the pit. blame them for the modern state of metal core.



I personally don't give a shit what much of this music devolved into. There's still good NYHC out there, like Step2Far (who are fucking awesome).
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PvtNinjer
Veteran

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:45 am
Posts: 2685
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:23 am 
 

So what's everyone thoughts on "The Process of Weeding Out" by Black Flag, just out of curiosity?

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squeebsquab
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:35 pm
Posts: 53
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:41 am 
 

PvtNinjer wrote:
So what's everyone thoughts on "The Process of Weeding Out" by Black Flag, just out of curiosity?


i remember i was so stoked to hear this record! black flag playing stoned out sludge jams? no fucking rollins? how could you go wrong, i mean ginn was a fucking madman on guitar, sloppy yes but great and he smoked weed all the time, how could it be bad? well...its bad. its not good at all and it totally bummed me out. I liked the b side of family man a lot better actually. I guess though if you like it you should check out his other band called Gone. more of the same thing they were doing there, wankery that goes nowhere.

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Dragunov
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 6:34 pm
Posts: 2358
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:47 am 
 

@Bezerko: Despise You are great! I still haven't heard that Possessed cover yet though. I really want to hear it.
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TadGhostal
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:31 pm
Posts: 830
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:53 am 
 

PvtNinjer wrote:
So what's everyone thoughts on "The Process of Weeding Out" by Black Flag, just out of curiosity?


The first time I heard it I thought "boy...there are sure a lot of bad guitar solos on here" but it's grown on me a bit since then. Bill Stevenson and Kira were good players, although what Ginn was doing wasn't really Bill's style at all. Those guys could give Greg a run for his money. Too bad Greg's ego can't handle that.

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Shovel
Wyruld Cyninga

Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:25 am
Posts: 5608
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:12 pm 
 

Few things I'd like to comment on:

On the notion of foreign hardcore: I could never get into hardcore from other countries (save for Canada) because I see hardcore as an intensely personal genre. You're supposed to connect with the music, with the lyrics, with the message. I can't do that if the band is singing in a different language, or even if they're singing in english, it still has a foreign message.

As for early hardcore, I'm a fan of the pioneers. Minor Threat (if you don't like Minor Threat, how the fuck are you into hardcore?), Black Flag, SSD, 7 Seconds, etc.

But my favorite form of hardcore is youth crew, which came around in the late 80s early 90s. Gorilla Biscuits, Bold, Side by Side, Judge, Chain of Strength, Youth of Today, Inside Out, etc. Then there was the youth crew revival of the mid to late 90s; In My Eyes, Ten Yard Fight, Floorpunch, Time Flies, Far From Breaking, etc.

In my opinion, these bands are what hardcore is really about. The pioneers started the idea of personal hardcore, and the youth crew bands developed it and are keeping it pure. The fact that their straightedge just seems to be a by-product of that mentality.
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206
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:00 pm
Posts: 966
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:01 pm 
 

Shovel wrote:
Gorilla Biscuits


:np:

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ThrashingMad
Skanky

Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:47 pm
Posts: 2353
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:24 pm 
 

Shovel wrote:
But my favorite form of hardcore is youth crew, which came around in the late 80s early 90s. Gorilla Biscuits, Bold, Side by Side, Judge, Chain of Strength, Youth of Today, Inside Out, etc. Then there was the youth crew revival of the mid to late 90s; In My Eyes, Ten Yard Fight, Floorpunch, Time Flies, Far From Breaking, etc.


Ugh, that was one of the most derivative, same-sounding, overall boring scenes ever. It had a few good bands though, Inside Out being the best.


Last edited by ThrashingMad on Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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squeebsquab
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:35 pm
Posts: 53
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:49 pm 
 

I get into a little bit of the old youth crew stuff, Chain of Strength, Youth of today...the pioneers 7 seconds.


Ive been playing the first MDC album on repeat all day. This stuff was amazing to me. Its just a fast onslaught with some of the most awesome lyrics a band has ever written. I just picture Dave Dictor walking his dog in full drag totally strung out on dope though, and it makes me laugh.

I love the old texas bands like the big boys, the dicks, offenders, really red, dri. Just really great outspoken bands that knew how to have some fun.

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Noisenoir
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:25 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:00 pm 
 

Other great bands you should check:
Blast!
Septic Death
Lethal Aggression
Christ on parade
Fear
Jerry's Kids
Adolescents
D.I.
Verbal Abuse
The Accused
Goverment Issue
and the list goes on...

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squeebsquab
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:35 pm
Posts: 53
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:27 pm 
 

Noisenoir wrote:
Other great bands you should check:
Blast!
Septic Death
Lethal Aggression
Christ on parade
Fear
Jerry's Kids
Adolescents
D.I.
Verbal Abuse
The Accused
Goverment Issue
and the list goes on...


whats the point of listing stuff?
let me elaborate...

B'last - awesome hardcore band from cali...like a mix of COC and Black Flag. They never really gained popularity outside of cali. Check out power of expression on the SST lable. I think early on they had a COC member?

Christ on Parade - East bay 80's hardcore. Pretty sloppy rudimentary stuff but i really love this band. Had a member of Nuerosis and Econochrist. Pretty political lyrics and lots of crusty huge mohawks. Their sound of nature lp was just rereleased on Prank Records last year. check this out!

Septic Death - pusheads band from idaho of all places. The music was really proto-crust type of stuff and the lyrics are just insane. Litterally all about being nuts. Really weird stuff to be honest but it works..good luck finding anything by these guys thats not a best of.

Fear - L.A. band featuring lee ving, a Nam vet gone punk, gone actor (mr. body in the movie clue). This band is pretty well known. Check out the movie decline of western civilization to see fear baiting the fans. Shock value shit, but not bad.

Jerrys Kids - Awesome boston band! really these guys were better than any other band from that area at the time. Thrashing hardcore madness. I think its better than Gang Green who shared members with this band.

Adolescents - The youngest hardcore band at the time. They were from the same scene as the circle jerks and flag. I think their first lp holds up against those bands, but they went downhill after the broke up and got back together. I wouldnt recommend anything but the first lp and the demo lp, both still in print. Members were in ADZ and Christian Death. Even had Pat Smear for a short time.

D.I. - i really hate this band. They one song i really liked though, Check out Richard hung himself. Part of the adolescents family.

Verbal Abuse - raging fucking hardcore from Texas. I cant even describe how good this band were. Everyone needs to check them out. Just an American band 12'' and Rocks Your Liver Lp on melvins guy boner records.

Government Issue - pretty solid hardcore from DC, around the same time as minor threat, soa, all those bands. They have two double disc cd sets. They stuck around even when most of those hardcore bands broke up, become a weird rock, indie, emo band like rites of spring but i actually like that stuff more.

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